Bereaved families let down by UK consular service abroad

[ThaiLife]

Bereaved families let down by UK consular service, MPs say

LONDON: -- The consular service provided by the UK Foreign Office sometimes falls short of what the public "can legitimately expect", a report by MPs says.

Bereavement services - offered when Britons die abroad - had fallen "well below expected standards" at times, the Foreign Affairs Committee report says.

It said the Foreign Office had suffered budget cuts and more UK-based staff should be put in foreign positions.

The Foreign Office welcomed the report and said it was improving its service.

Some of the issues that the committee has identified, including our response to tragic murders abroad, are areas that we are already working to improve ”

The Foreign Office will present a paper addressing the report to parliament in January, the spokesman said.

Read More: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30163093

-- BBC 2014-11-23

[mrtoad]

Cue, the Embassy and Consular apologists....

[WilliamCave]

My take on the embassy's and I am not an expert but they do look after passports etc and a few things .

But when it comes down to it I don't think most care they are here for the big business and it seems that when going in to the embassy you are incovience them .

Remember they are government employes they are not accountable for there actions like the private sector .

[daveAustin]

The wrong budgets are being cut and yet billions upon billions continues to flow into Brussels for others' roads, bridges, farms etc.

Something is seriously wrong with Britain at the moment; they don't give a F about their own, both within and outside the country. Roll into Blighty from Romania or wherever and you'll get spoon-fed everything. Despite keeping up with NI contributions, I'm not entirely sure I'm even eligible for the NHS and the above would likely be given a hospital bed before me. A sh*t state of affairs for a once great nation, which, I'm sorry to say, has become a downright embarrassment through the PCness of bending over backwards to accommodate anyone but a Brit. Would the Thais be so uncaring of their people aboard? I think not!

[Tatsujin]

If you're a Briton abroad, get into any kind of trouble (self-inflicted or not), you're on your own for the most part.

Based on what I've seen here, we're simply an inconvenience for them to deal with as quickly and shallowly as possible, if at all.

Mind you, that's the same back home too when trying to ask for assistance in any way, shape or form.

[NanLaew]

Cue, the Embassy and Consular apologists....

...sometimes you really are better off just letting it all go.

The wrong budgets are being cut and yet billions upon billions continues to flow into Brussels for others' roads, bridges, farms etc.

Something is seriously wrong with Britain at the moment; they don't give a F about their own, both within and outside the country. Roll into Blighty from Romania or wherever and you'll get spoon-fed everything. Despite keeping up with NI contributions, I'm not entirely sure I'm even eligible for the NHS and the above would likely be given a hospital bed before me. A sh*t state of affairs for a once great nation, which, I'm sorry to say, has become a downright embarrassment through the PCness of bending over backwards to accommodate anyone but a Brit. Would the Thais be so uncaring of their people aboard? I think not!

Oh dear. It appears that someone has found a way to access the Daily Mail online in Thailand. You ARE here aren't you?

If you're a Briton abroad, get into any kind of trouble (self-inflicted or not), you're on your own for the most part.

Based on what I've seen here, we're simply an inconvenience for them to deal with as quickly and shallowly as possible, if at all.

Mind you, that's the same back home too when trying to ask for assistance in any way, shape or form.

I am pretty sure things will be a lot better when UKIP takes control. Edited November 23, 2014 by NanLaew

[Living in a cartoon]

Not a UK citizen, but that shaved head ambassador you got gives me the creeps.And so obsequious to the Thai PM in that photo last week.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If you're a Briton abroad, get into any kind of trouble (self-inflicted or not), you're on your own for the most part.

Based on what I've seen here, we're simply an inconvenience for them to deal with as quickly and shallowly as possible, if at all.

Mind you, that's the same back home too when trying to ask for assistance in any way, shape or form.

Actually in some embassies there seems to be a mindset of deliberately being uncooperative, etc.

One wonders whether this is because of the 'type' of people they employ, or does it flow down from their higher level or local managers,

or does it relate back to the 'yes minister' stuff?

On the other side of the picture I'm aware of one BKK embassy where the local head jumps on any staff who take even the slightest pompous

approach, he jumps on staff who, within their own office, talk in 'diplo double speak' as he puts it, he says 'talk to me in English'. He demands

that 'customers' are listened to and get answers either on the spot or in some form of quick checking and feedback to the customer. The staff

from the home country hate him.

[evadgib]

I'm not aware of any countries that pick up the tab in these circumstances, indeed doing so would render insurers redundant.

[fgmr]

How does the UK consular service compare with other western countries regarding this issue? Has anybody done a survey?

[fgmr]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If you're a Briton abroad, get into any kind of trouble (self-inflicted or not), you're on your own for the most part.

Based on what I've seen here, we're simply an inconvenience for them to deal with as quickly and shallowly as possible, if at all.

Mind you, that's the same back home too when trying to ask for assistance in any way, shape or form.

Actually in some embassies there seems to be a mindset of deliberately being uncooperative, etc.

One wonders whether this is because of the 'type' of people they employ, or does it flow down from their higher level or local managers,

or does it relate back to the 'yes minister' stuff?

On the other side of the picture I'm aware of one BKK embassy where the local head jumps on any staff who take even the slightest pompous

approach, he jumps on staff who, within their own office, talk in 'diplo double speak' as he puts it, he says 'talk to me in English'. He demands

that 'customers' are listened to and get answers either on the spot or in some form of quick checking and feedback to the customer. The staff

from the home country hate him.

[Lupatria]

When you are dead, does it really matter in which soil your flesh and bones are feeding the worms? Or is this some kind of posthumous patriotism?

[DGS1244]

How does the UK consular service compare with other western countries regarding this issue? Has anybody done a survey?

Many are a lot worse, problem is that most consulates only have local hires, not staff from UK, so can you really expect them to do much more.

[Suradit69]

When you are dead, does it really matter in which soil your flesh and bones are feeding the worms? Or is this some kind of posthumous patriotism?

Interesting point. I fully intend/expect to be buried in Thailand. Can't think of why anyone should bear the expense of shipping the former me back to the US.

As to embassies, I think the US embassy treats citizens pretty well. Of course, their main purpose for being here is not to act as a concierge, travel planner, short-term loan provider, or to spring citizens from the Thai legal system when they break Thai law. If they are acting in an official capacity they have to operate within the restraints set by the State Dept. All the staff I've dealt with at the embassy, whether Thai or American, are very polite and knowledgeable.

They have a rather lengthy statement regarding the death of a US citizen, including what they can and cannot do and what they require from next of kin in order to proceed, only a part of which is quoted below. I spoke to a consular officer regarding my heir in Thailand being able to proceed with funeral arrangement without interference from the embassy and was told that they would accept my wishes as put forth in a properly executed Thai will.

Death is a difficult experience for one's family and friends no matter where it takes place. When death occurs overseas the experience can be even harder, especially if the procedures involved are not clearly understood.

American Citizen Services (ACS) is ready to assist family and friends in the event of the death of an American Citizen in Thailand. Our services include:

• Finding and notifying the Next-of-Kin of the deceased
• Acting as a liaison with Thai police, hospital and mortuary authorities
• Arranging for the disposition and repatriation of remains
• Coordinating administrative and financial requirements
• Assisting in the collection and return of personal effects to Next-of-Kin
• Issuing a "Report of Death of American Citizen Abroad".

Notification of Next-of-Kin

The Thai authorities inform the Embassy upon the death of an American Citizen anywhere in Thailand. We locate the Next-of-Kin of the deceased and contact the individual as quickly as possible. There are several important things that the Next-of-Kin must do in conjunction with the ACS office. These include:

• Returning a signed and notarized "Affidavit of Next-of-Kin"
• Choosing the method of disposition of remains
• Arranging payment of mortuary and related expenses in Thailand
• Arranging the return of any personal possessions of the deceased

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/death-of-a-us-citizen.html

Edited November 23, 2014 by Suradit69

[Suradit69]

How does the UK consular service compare with other western countries regarding this issue? Has anybody done a survey?

Many are a lot worse, problem is that most consulates only have local hires, not staff from UK, so can you really expect them to do much more.

"How does the UK consular service compare with other western countries ..."

"Many are a lot worse, problem is that most consulates only have local hires, not staff from UK ..."

Why would embassies from "other western countries" have staff from UK?

Does the UK have official consulates in Thailand? I thought there was just the embassy. I think there was someone who was an honorary consul in Pattaya once upon a time, but wasn't even that axed for budgetary reasons?

[Ulic]

Budget cutbacks is a B.S. excuse. Most people just need information. Hospital/Doctor recommendations. Steps to

repatriate a body. Recommendation of English speaking lawyers. They can direct any visa or other questions to this

website. Lots they can do to help at no cost.

[Thai at Heart]

My take on the embassy's and I am not an expert but they do look after passports etc and a few things .

But when it comes down to it I don't think most care they are here for the big business and it seems that when going in to the embassy you are incovience them .

Remember they are government employes they are not accountable for there actions like the private sector .

They have been cut just like everyone else has been cut. I used to help them voluntarily up country. They have a lot to deal with most of which would be improved with more people on deck

[theoldgit]

It's worth noting that included in the cost of every UK Passport is a element for FCO Consular Protection, it used to be in the region of £15 but I'm not sure what it is now.

I don't know how many passports the UK issue each year, but that's a lot of fifteen quids.

[simple1]

Budget cutbacks is a B.S. excuse. Most people just need information. Hospital/Doctor recommendations. Steps to repatriate a body. Recommendation of English speaking lawyers. They can direct any visa or other questions to this website. Lots they can do to help at no cost.

Steps to repatriate a body is covered in detail at the UK Embassy BKK website.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284901/Information_Relating_to_Deaths_in_Thailand_Jan_2014_-_lastest_edition.pdf

List of Thailand based English speaking lawyers is provided.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-list-of-lawyers

I assume the Embassy will not recommend hospitals / doctors via their website due to the risk of litigation.

Edited November 23, 2014 by simple1

[johninbkk71]

My take on the embassy's and I am not an expert but they do look after passports etc and a few things .

But when it comes down to it I don't think most care they are here for the big business and it seems that when going in to the embassy you are incovience them .

Remember they are government employes they are not accountable for there actions like the private sector .

A private company does passports and uk visa

[Lupatria]

When you are dead, does it really matter in which soil your flesh and bones are feeding the worms? Or is this some kind of posthumous patriotism?

Interesting point. I fully intend/expect to be buried in Thailand. Can't think of why anyone should bear the expense of shipping the former me back to the US.

As to embassies, I think the US embassy treats citizens pretty well. Of course, their main purpose for being here is not to act as a concierge, travel planner, short-term loan provider, or to spring citizens from the Thai legal system when they break Thai law. If they are acting in an official capacity they have to operate within the restraints set by the State Dept. All the staff I've dealt with at the embassy, whether Thai or American, are very polite and knowledgeable.

They have a rather lengthy statement regarding the death of a US citizen, including what they can and cannot do and what they require from next of kin in order to proceed, only a part of which is quoted below. I spoke to a consular officer regarding my heir in Thailand being able to proceed with funeral arrangement without interference from the embassy and was told that they would accept my wishes as put forth in a properly executed Thai will.

Death is a difficult experience for one's family and friends no matter where it takes place. When death occurs overseas the experience can be even harder, especially if the procedures involved are not clearly understood.

American Citizen Services (ACS) is ready to assist family and friends in the event of the death of an American Citizen in Thailand. Our services include:

• Finding and notifying the Next-of-Kin of the deceased
• Acting as a liaison with Thai police, hospital and mortuary authorities
• Arranging for the disposition and repatriation of remains
• Coordinating administrative and financial requirements
• Assisting in the collection and return of personal effects to Next-of-Kin
• Issuing a "Report of Death of American Citizen Abroad".

Notification of Next-of-Kin

The Thai authorities inform the Embassy upon the death of an American Citizen anywhere in Thailand. We locate the Next-of-Kin of the deceased and contact the individual as quickly as possible. There are several important things that the Next-of-Kin must do in conjunction with the ACS office. These include:

• Returning a signed and notarized "Affidavit of Next-of-Kin"
• Choosing the method of disposition of remains
• Arranging payment of mortuary and related expenses in Thailand
• Arranging the return of any personal possessions of the deceased

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/death-of-a-us-citizen.html

Interesting point. I fully intend/expect to be buried in Thailand.

Welcome to the club!

[tim armstrong]

I think many countries are slowly but surely contracting out services that don't involve trade or politics. Its worth reading the inside cover of many western countries passports. Mostly they say that the holder shouldbe given evry assistance and travel unhindered .. blah blah. But the clear impression is that the passport holder's country will help them if they are in trouble. I don't think this is so true anymore.

[DGS1244]

"Does the UK have official consulates in Thailand? I thought there was just the embassy. I think there was someone who was an honorary consul in Pattaya once upon a time, but wasn't even that axed for budgetary reasons?"

Chiang Mai has an official consulate but only manned by local employees. I believe this is the only one in Thailand, and although local hire are always very helpful and efficient.

[gchurch259]

_{The "Flag Carrier" of most countries fly into BKK. As such they should be willing to carry the remains, "Space Available" back to their home country, failing that maybe the Thai PM can arrange for Thai Aiorways to provide on a "Space Available" basis the return.}

_{The problem will still be the paperwork for Thailand and the home country.}

_{Me, been here 11 years and guess I will see the oven and urn here in Thailand.}

_{I wish there was a strong central Ex Pat Organization that could help as well.}

[coastman]

As an ex British Diplomat, but never posted to Thailand, I can say this has nothing to do with staff cuts or cut backs in funding. This has always been FCO policy. The primary reason for a British Embassy or Consulate in any country is a) political and intelligence gathering. Sometimes these aims conflict but everything else especially the helping of British Nationals aboard is not only secondary its a tolerated inconvenience at best!

[PJcm]

How does the UK consular service compare with other western countries regarding this issue? Has anybody done a survey?

Many are a lot worse, problem is that most consulates only have local hires, not staff from UK, so can you really expect them to do much more.

I am a British and US national There is no comparison between the two Embassies. The British services are mind boggleing and trival to the extreme. The US embassy tells you what you need, how to get it, and how much and then gives you what you want. The labyrinth and pettiness of the British embassy is a battle the average expat will always lose.

[Muhendis]

Not a UK citizen, but that shaved head ambassador you got gives me the creeps.And so obsequious to the Thai PM in that photo last week.

Ok smart ass. Dictionary out and Hey Presto.............Obsequious: obedient or attentive to an excessive or servile degree.

I reckon you've been looking for an opportunity to use that word for the past five years. Thanks for the addition to my vocabulary.

[uel1968]

The wrong budgets are being cut and yet billions upon billions continues to flow into Brussels for others' roads, bridges, farms etc.

Something is seriously wrong with Britain at the moment; they don't give a F about their own, both within and outside the country. Roll into Blighty from Romania or wherever and you'll get spoon-fed everything. Despite keeping up with NI contributions, I'm not entirely sure I'm even eligible for the NHS and the above would likely be given a hospital bed before me. A sh*t state of affairs for a once great nation, which, I'm sorry to say, has become a downright embarrassment through the PCness of bending over backwards to accommodate anyone but a Brit. Would the Thais be so uncaring of their people aboard? I think not!

Yeah,Britain is not so"GREAT"anymore.

[theoldgit]

My take on the embassy's and I am not an expert but they do look after passports etc and a few things .

But when it comes down to it I don't think most care they are here for the big business and it seems that when going in to the embassy you are incovience them .

Remember they are government employes they are not accountable for there actions like the private sector.

A private company does passports and uk visa

Not strictly accurate.

The HMPO has contracted out the procedure of receiving passport applications and passing them onto the HMPO in the UK for processing, the company plays no part in the actual issuing process.

Likewise the same company is contracted to receive visa applications and forward them to the UKVI located in the UK Embassy, again they play no part in the decision making process.

[uel1968]

The wrong budgets are being cut and yet billions upon billions continues to flow into Brussels for others' roads, bridges, farms etc.

Something is seriously wrong with Britain at the moment; they don't give a F about their own, both within and outside the country. Roll into Blighty from Romania or wherever and you'll get spoon-fed everything. Despite keeping up with NI contributions, I'm not entirely sure I'm even eligible for the NHS and the above would likely be given a hospital bed before me. A sh*t state of affairs for a once great nation, which, I'm sorry to say, has become a downright embarrassment through the PCness of bending over backwards to accommodate anyone but a Brit. Would the yes Britain is not so GREAT anymoreThais be so uncaring of their people aboard? I think not!