Just got kicked out of thai with valid visa

[MacWalen]

One would assume that if Walen is an astute businessman , then he will have a strategic plan laid out, just for this possible scenario of an ED Visa crackdown. I still think it is highly possible that immigration are wise to the current level of abuse of ED Visas which has been promoted by various Digital Pikeys, Gay Porn Stars, Grind House operators that have continued to boast on TVF about how they live and work on an ED Visa, and don't go to school.

Of course, Walen School is going to continue teaching languages but on top of that we also teach investing, one year course is 1,197 USD promotion price for example, business and money courses. With DCS we are doing well as I work as a team with many students/partners. I am very positive about the future and by the looks of things things will get even better. Plus we have not spend the money and keep investing it so don't worry, Walen School will be around. Actually a good idea if you join us in business, you will do very well.

[scorecard]

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One would assume that if Walen is an astute businessman , then he will have a strategic plan laid out, just for this possible scenario of an ED Visa crackdown. I still think it is highly possible that immigration are wise to the current level of abuse of ED Visas which has been promoted by various Digital Pikeys, Gay Porn Stars, Grind House operators that have continued to boast on TVF about how they live and work on an ED Visa, and don't go to school.

Of course, Walen School is going to continue teaching languages but on top of that we also teach investing, one year course is 1,197 USD promotion price for example, business and money courses. With DCS we are doing well as I work as a team with many students/partners. I am very positive about the future and by the looks of things things will get even better. Plus we have not spend the money and keep investing it so don't worry, Walen School will be around. Actually a good idea if you join us in business, you will do very well.

What qualifications do you have to teach business, are your courses accredited, and can students get an ed visa specifically to study business at your school?

[Jimbolai]

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They said i will be refused in other countries because of my thailand refusal stamp. They dont want to let me fly anywhere else than france.

I think they're lying to you. I could be wrong but it's worth double checking.

Actually I think technically speaking they are correct, example if you remember Gary glitter being kicked out of Vietnam, he wanted to go to HK ? Or somewhere in SEA and was denied entry/transit though those countries had to fly to the UK

Yes, I remember, they said they wouldn't let him in due to his notoriety - very different scenario.

He was released from prison in Vietnam under an agreement to serve the time in the UK, He was more afraid of the UK than anywhere else. Prior to Vietnam he was convicted in Cambodia for abusing very young girls. Some never learn. They should have kept him in Vietnam forever.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Jimbolai

[NeverSure]

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One would assume that if Walen is an astute businessman , then he will have a strategic plan laid out, just for this possible scenario of an ED Visa crackdown. I still think it is highly possible that immigration are wise to the current level of abuse of ED Visas which has been promoted by various Digital Pikeys, Gay Porn Stars, Grind House operators that have continued to boast on TVF about how they live and work on an ED Visa, and don't go to school.

Of course, Walen School is going to continue teaching languages but on top of that we also teach investing, one year course is 1,197 USD promotion price for example, business and money courses. With DCS we are doing well as I work as a team with many students/partners. I am very positive about the future and by the looks of things things will get even better. Plus we have not spend the money and keep investing it so don't worry, Walen School will be around. Actually a good idea if you join us in business, you will do very well.

What qualifications do you have to teach business, are your courses accredited, and can students get an ed visa specifically to study business at your school?

MacWalen is a very smart man who can solve your issues. I STRONGLY suggest that if you have a real need you contact him personally starting with a PM.

[beano2274]

Someone read the reason for me it says insufficient funds. But the officer really got angry when i couldnt read thai. I had 9k baht on me a business world mastercard fully loaded and a kasikorn atm. I believe only cash counts. If i had enough cash i believe he would have said something else.

I find it highly suspicious that after a previous poster mentioned the insufficient funds stamp placed in his passport, that turned up as your stamp. That stamp does not bar a person from future entry. Also after having gone to a similar caliber language school myself when I first got here (as most real language school students do), it is highly suspicious the OP couldn't have at least read, and spoken most of the names of the Thai letters shown to him after 6 months in school, and spoken some (formal, not bar) Thai to the agent, that a person learns in school. I doubt the immigration agent expected the OP to be fluent, just show him enough basic formal school Thai fluency that a question of actually going to school was erased.

I think there is more going on here to make the immigration agent suspicious of long term stay on improper visas than is being reported by the OP. He has a car, and a Thai bank account after-all? How long has he actually been in Thailand before he went to Thai language school? He says he speaks Thai, so why go to school to learn to speak Thai, and not learn the basics of reading and writing Thai, that he doesn't understand?

I am confused about one thing when he exited Thailand. He states that he never went to school because he already spoke Thai, so he seemed to not be aware he had to extend the visa every 90 days, with paperwork from the school saying he was attending, and in fact the visa had been expired for quite some time after 7 months, and no 90 day extensions. With no extensions the agent seems correct in denying him entry under that visa, and given his length of stay, refused him entry on an exemption stamp. What I'm confused about is why he never was charged overstay fees when he left for HK, as his visa had been expired for about 4 months at that point. It might have been a costly oversight by immigration, but hard to believe.

He was not overstay

He said he was not attending classes

The obvious conclusion is he got 2 extension already.

My friends attending the same school told me it was common to see a new face every couple weeks.

Old students would come to class only on the day to renew paperwork.

Their paperwork work would show perfect attendance.

They had no problem not attending and getting extension paperwork.

My friends finished classes 3 months ago but that was their comments from their observation

again and hopefully will not be deleted, it seems that the School is obviously not adhering to the rules and regulations or someone at the school is indeed assisting a criminal offence, I hope the owner investigates this

and heads roll

[HeijoshinCool]

16 pages in just hours. This OP took off in a jet, literally and figuratively.

Moral of the story:

If you are a non-native English speaker, and want an ED visa but don't intend to go to class, sign up for English classes, not Thai!

Not too many chances you will get caught out.

Immigration): You learn English long time?

(Student): Yes.

(Immigration): Where you from?

(Student): France.

(Immigration): You like Thai lady?

(Student): Yes.

Immigration: You like Thai food?

(Student): Yes

(Immigration): You want study more long time?

(Student): Yes.

Immigration: Okay. You go.

[Kerryd]

A lot of people need to actually read the OP's posts before commenting. A lot of people need to actually get a (real) law degree before spouting off about what they think the law is.

The OP claimed to have been on a marriage visa for 8 years. Ergo he would have had a lot of stamps in his passport from doing border runs and extensions.

OP says he has a valid ED visa (with multi re-entry permit). Admits he has never gone to a class. Admits he doesn't "really" work in Thailand as he has income from a business in Hong Kong (where he was just travelling back from).

(Note: I have never done a 90 report myself, because every time I leave/re-enter the country the clock starts again. Perhaps the OP was also making trips out of the country every 90 days or less and therefore didn't have to actually do any 90 day reports either.)

First he says he was denied entry because he couldn't read or write any Thai. Then he says the stamp in his passport mentions insufficient funds. Then in post 83 he says they believe he was working in Thailand.

Then he says:

Posted Yesterday, 09:47

They told me if i want to come back better change my passport and get a tourist visa with at least 700 usd in cash, go and back ticket, hotel bookings and a plan to visit Thailand.... they want real tourists not foreigners living here on student visas.

So now it seems he was told to go home and get a proper visa as they (rightfully) deduced he wasn't studying anything and was just using the Ed visa to circumvent the rules.

Like so many other stories we hear of expats running afoul of the authorities, there is often more than meets the eye and we normally only hear one (very biased) side of the story. Quite often as well, the more we hear, the more we realize that perhaps the blame isn't entirely on the "authorities".

[MacWalen]

What qualifications do you have to teach business?

What qualifications would satisfy you?

[jacksam]

Hi guys,

I just got kicked out of thailand with an ED visa totally valid from waleen and a re entry. I arrived from 3 days holiday in Hong Kong and the immigration officer told me my visa was cancelled. I can speak thai but can not read or write. He told me 6 month is enough to read and write and asked me to buy a ticket back to my country.

He told me i could never re entrer the country with this passport. They were stopping every ED visa for testing thai skills.

Maybe nothing relevant.... But this OP has a post in marriage and divorce running currently......is this a wind up. I hope not cause that's one sick puppy if it is.

Love the way there was a running op reply... I just got myticket to France.... I'm on the plane now....

[MichaelSong]

The airline must return you to the point of origin, if that is not possible they must return you to your home country.

You may have to pay them in full but they are required to take you. If you don't pay they can and likely will sue you.

How do they determine the "home country" it is quite possible to have a passport of a EU country and never ever set foot there, living in a different EU country than that of your passport

[ITGabs]

Hi!
Sorry to read what happen to you Johnny

I was thinking to go Vietnam but #$ I really hate to think that Immigration will test my read/write level and forced me back to my country that is exactly the furthest country to thailand

Immigration have a very good system, just in seconds with the passport ID they can see the latest hotels that you stayed, in/outs of thailand and more, I saw it working, probably they can check thai bank balance with more access, sure this is illegal in many countries but seems that in thailand not, I was surprised to see how fast and complete were the results.

Probably they just have patterns like queries in a database that show just a green, yellow or red flag.

I am thinking that becasue in 4 years I've never been asked to go to the immigration office or show nothing, but with my first ED they asked me to show money, this was exactly at the same point that I started to use paypal to get payments, and avoid the bangkok bank for insecurity (this year bangkok bank or others banks were hacked in 3 opportunities @#$ russians hackers) plus this year was quite slow, compared with the latest ones, maybe they can track the profile based in the kind of accomodation/balance that you had?

does this make sense to you?

[Thai at Heart]

Im sorry to hear about the trouble for the guy refused to enter Thailand again. But if we are discussing laws, the Thais have every right to deny him to travel to any other country than his home. The reason they do is as somebody mentioned before is because with a denied entry to Thailand in the passport, they are scared that any country he goes to will look at him as suspiciously and send him right back. That s why the only option is home country. I hope the immigration change their minds, but in Thailand it is the Thai immigration law that counts. In fact regarding entry into the kingdom, read about all the different visas one can obtain, it always end with, even with all papers in order it is still up to the individual immigration officer to grant or deny entry in to the kingdom. So in fact, if they dont like your face, a single immigration police can send u on your way. Getting a visa is not a right, it is a privilege.

On what grounds can they forcibly expel him from this airside area without a court order.

[NeverSure]

What qualifications do you have to teach business?

What qualifications would satisfy you?

One last time. MacWalen has been doing this a very long time. He knows his business and he knows other things.

Please don't expect him to tell you everything he knows on an open forum. Contact him personally if you really need help.

I have NO personal interest in his business or any other reason to make this post other than to help other posters.

[NanLaew]

On what grounds can they forcibly expel him from this airside area without a court order.

Good grief T@H... this is a Thai Immigration Law matter, not some Landlord trying to evict a squatter from his property in Bexley.

I think the answer is, in common with Immigration Officers in most every other country, because they can.

Since the mods have posted that they have some 'confidential' information either from or about the OP and they are letting this thread run, I think troll can be ruled out (for now).

The guy was busted for pure and simple visa fraud. End of.

Edited November 29, 2014 by NanLaew

[Maestro]

...

OP says he has a valid ED visa (with multi re-entry permit)...

This is what the JohnnyBKK wrote in the opening post of this topic:

I just got kicked out of thailand with an ED visa totally valid from waleen and a re entry. I arrived from 3 days holiday in Hong Kong and the immigration officer told me my visa was cancelled.

Frankly, I am confused by the above and probably none the wiser than anybody else as to what he really had.

1. "Waleen" or any other school does not issue an ED visa. Thai consulates issue non-Ed visas. Did he sign up for a course at a Thai language school and for this reason got the necessary documents from the school to get a non-ED visa at a Thai consulate?

2. With "re-entry", does he mean a re-entry permit? If he does, the visa must have been valid for one entry, as with a multiple-entry visa he would not have needed a re-entry permit.

3. He did not have "an ED visa totally valid" when he arrived at BKK airport from Hong Kong. His single-entry visa was used on his previous arrival, at which time he got permission to stay for 90 days, and was thereafter no longer valid for travel to Thailand.

4. He had a re-entry permit on his arrival from Hong Kong, valid for travel to Thailand not later than the date stated on this permit. What was that date? He did not say.

The above is what I surmise from the OP's posts. As these posts are lacking in detail and as he did not post copies of his stamps, nobody can know if this was indeed his situation.

JohnnyBKK was seen logged in on Thaivisa a few hours ago and it is up to him to clarify what he had, if he so chooses, and it is up to everybody else to ignore this topic if he does not or to continue to speculate idly about what may have been the case.

[DaffyDuck]

Not wanting to comment on the morality of the situation, but it seems that the OP has indeed not stayed within the visa rules and was caught out by an immigration officer.

In other words, the immigration officer was properly and lawfully enforcing the rules.

His computer probably also indicated that the OP has been in Thailand for 8 years - hence his point of "you had enough time to learn Thai" was valid.

[DaffyDuck]

JohnnyBKK seems to have arrived a his destination. From screenshot taken about eight minutes ago:

Has he ever said which airport this all allegedly happened at?

[whybother]

ATF why don't you think the OP will tell us, all his fans, what airport?

Absolutely no idea.

Since he has been asked a number of times and no response I would assume he is a troll making up the story. It would be too easy to check if we knew the airport.

Don't you read he is in the plane now? He could not have answered...Maybe you'll have an answer to morrow

He could have answered when he told everyone he was on the plane.

[Maestro]

JohnnyBKK seems to have arrived a his destination. From screenshot taken about eight minutes ago:

Has he ever said which airport this all allegedly happened at?

I believe Johnny BKK posted that he bought an Air France ticket to fly to France and from that, readers concluded that it can only have been Suvarnabhumi airport (BKK). It is reasonable to assume that this was indeed the case and we can safely lay this question to rest.

[Maestro]

On what grounds can they forcibly expel him from this airside area without a court order.

I understand that immigration refused JohnnyBKK entry into Thailand but did not forcibly expel him from the airside area. As he then left on his own volition we do not know what would have happened if he had not done so, but I would guess that it would have been detention, court appearance, execution of the court's decision.

[JohnnyBKK]

Hi guys,

In France now, i tried to keep you updated using the on air wifi but it was too slow to post.

I flew with emirates. I asked at Dubai stop what happened and they said "Deportation because of insufficient funds, very strange".

The official "thing" is insufficient funds.

[BKKSnowBird]

Have you contacted your school?

[puukao]

I would have told the officer I am able to read and write some, and then struggled and made up some stuff if he asked. I got an ED visa through a school, but yes the school appears to be just the 'middle-man' in the operation. i had zero problems, but unfortunately this was not too recent to help those worrying.

when in doubt, smile, smile more, be nice, show way more respect than needed, and act like you really love this place. that attitude has worked for me 100% of the time.

but i did tell my teacher once, "pom bpen kon thai" and she really wasn't that happy. lol. and doing the crazy voice inflections is even more fun.

Edited November 29, 2014 by puukao

[tgeezer]

Surely in a case of refusal at immigration it is the responsibility of the carrier which landed you in the country. You should contact them and they will have to take you back to where you boarded the flight.

[bkkcanuck8]

Surely in a case of refusal at immigration it is the responsibility of the carrier which landed you in the country. You should contact them and they will have to take you back to where you boarded the flight.

I read earlier that the Thai immigration will only force the airline to fly you back -- if the airline was at fault. If it was officially "insufficient funds" then it was not the fault of the airline.... I know of no airline which check to see how much cash you have on you. Upon landing, you are required to have either a return ticket (which I assume the OP did not), and he did not have sufficient funds (20K baht).

[Soutpeel]

Hi guys,

In France now, i tried to keep you updated using the on air wifi but it was too slow to post.

I flew with emirates. I asked at Dubai stop what happened and they said "Deportation because of insufficient funds, very strange".

The official "thing" is insufficient funds.

You haven't been deported you have been refused entry not the same thing, why is this concept so hard for people to understand, you can only be deported from a country you have been admitted to, you never got in the front door

[thailiketoo]

Hi guys,

In France now, i tried to keep you updated using the on air wifi but it was too slow to post.

I flew with emirates. I asked at Dubai stop what happened and they said "Deportation because of insufficient funds, very strange".

The official "thing" is insufficient funds.

What immigration at what airport kicked you out?

Edited November 30, 2014 by thailiketoo

[thailiketoo]

Hi guys,

In France now, i tried to keep you updated using the on air wifi but it was too slow to post.

I flew with emirates. I asked at Dubai stop what happened and they said "Deportation because of insufficient funds, very strange".

The official "thing" is insufficient funds.

You haven't been deported you have been refused entry not the same thing, why is this concept so hard for people to understand, you can only be deported from a country you have been admitted to, you never got in the front door

You mean whoever the poster asked at Dubai did not know what deportation means and or the OP.

[whybother]

Surely in a case of refusal at immigration it is the responsibility of the carrier which landed you in the country. You should contact them and they will have to take you back to where you boarded the flight.

I read earlier that the Thai immigration will only force the airline to fly you back -- if the airline was at fault. If it was officially "insufficient funds" then it was not the fault of the airline.... I know of no airline which check to see how much cash you have on you. Upon landing, you are required to have either a return ticket (which I assume the OP did not), and he did not have sufficient funds (20K baht).

You don't need a return ticket or "sufficient funds" if you have a valid visa. Johnny had a valid visa, so was allowed to fly to Bangkok and why the carrier wouldn't be required to fly him back to where he came from.

The problem was that immigration decided that he wasn't fulfilling the requirements of his Education visa ... which Johnny has actually admitted to.

The "reason" given on his passport for not allowing entry was "insufficient funds", but that wasn't the reason they didn't let him in.

[gregk0543]

This has become a very long thread but it did puzzle me. In the aspect of procedures if you are refused entry into any country. Hard to find that info on web but below are some details for the US, UK and Aust. The short hand online is to always send you back to your country of residence.

So there are processes in other countries. I have had troubles boarding flights out of Australia on two occasions one was without an onward flight from Thailand. I had to quickly buy a ticket on line to Myanmar and get back to the queue. Was lucky to do that in time. Maybe Jetstar.

Another was Thai Airways did not like some water damage to my passport. They showed it to Aust. Immigration who said it was fine. G20 was on in Bangkok. My flight was to Myanmar transit Bkk. I ended up talking to a supervisor on phone assured him I was not getting off in Thailand and he let me fly. No one ever fussed over that passport again.

http://www.justlanded.com/english/United-States/Articles/Moving/Refusal-of-entry

Here is some info for UK.

http://www.justlanded.com/english/United-Kingdom/Articles/Visas-Permits/Entry-refusal

I looked in Australian immigration website and it says:

https://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/70border.htm

Refusal of entry to Australia at the border

Regardless of the range of checks conducted on travellers before their arrival in Australia, arriving travellers may still be refused entry to Australia at the border, because of information revealed on arrival or discovered by the department while they are en route to Australia. Airlines must remove passengers from Australia who they brought to Australia and who are refused entry.