THE England thread

[Jip99]

10 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Shame he didn’t give the likes of Arnold a run and even one of the keepers. Pickfords cemented his place as number one, would of been good to give one of the others the experience. 

At least we can internationally retire off Jones  and Young now. 

Another stinker for Sterling. 

 

 

I disagree about the keepers - they can have a run out in friendlies.

 

I don't think it ever worked alternating Clemence and Shilton.

[alfieconn]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

@carmine

Not sure if you are using the confused face emogi to express genuine confusion or just displeasure with my post. Aren't some of European football's biggest stars of African and North African descent? If England is more restrictive of immigration from these regions than the EU, won't that put the UK at a disadvantage in future World Cup competitions? Just giving Brexiteers something to think about.

Why would that be ?

[Kadilo]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I disagree about the keepers - they can have a run out in friendlies.

 

I don't think it ever worked alternating Clemence and Shilton.

It was pretty much a friendly. 3 or 4th, who really cares. Be nice to say they had a run out in the World Cup. They may never get the opportunity again. 

[balo]

Nonsense , you can't say that the UK has a disadvantage after Brexit . 

Most players are born in the UK , only Sterling is an exception . 

 

Same in my native Norway who is not a member of the EU , maybe 1 out of 10 players were not born in the country , but we have at least 5 players with African roots in the squad. 

 

[Bredbury Blue]

1 minute ago, Kadilo said:

It was pretty much a friendly. 3 or 4th, who really cares. Be nice to say they had a run out in the World Cup. They may never get the opportunity again. 

Yep he could have  given  Butland and Pope a half each as a reward for their participation and a big tournament  taster; a bit like throwing  on a youngster late in a league game just to get that first game nerves out of the way.

[Kadilo]

Just now, Bredbury Blue said:

Yep he could have  given  Butland and Pope a half each as a reward for their participation and a big tournament  taster; a bit like throwing  on a youngster late in a league game just to get that first game nerves out of the way.

Exactly. Same for Arnold. Really couldn’t see the point of playing the likes of Trippier who was injured previously. He has already proved himself, and arguably player of the tournament. Bringing on Alli who has not had a good one, and Jones who is looking backwards. 

Some strange choices from Southgate at the end for a nothing game. 

 

[jellydog]

Just now, Kadilo said:

Exactly. Same for Arnold. Really couldn’t see the point of playing the likes of Trippier who was injured previously. He has already proved himself, and arguably player of the tournament. Bringing on Alli who has not had a good one, and Jones who is looking backwards. 

Some strange choices from Southgate at the end for a nothing game. 

 

I think many are missing the point that to Southgate and the players it was not a "nothing game". They wanted to win on a big stage at the WC, and I don't think that Southgate can be faulted for that.

[Kadilo]

15 minutes ago, jellydog said:

I think many are missing the point that to Southgate and the players it was not a "nothing game". They wanted to win on a big stage at the WC, and I don't think that Southgate can be faulted for that.

Played Jones and Dier and wanting to win..........mmmm

 

[jellydog]

3 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Played Jones and Dier and wanting to win..........mmmm

 

Yeah, Jones should never have been called up. Dier as a jack of all trades I can understand.

[Jip99]

13 minutes ago, jellydog said:

Yeah, Jones should never have been called up. Dier as a jack of all trades I can understand.

 

 

Walker and Young were not in the frame so Jones was an obvious choice......... no longer, I suspect.

[mommysboy]

11 hours ago, balo said:

Is England a top 4 team or were you just lucky with the draw ?   Probably a bit lucky . But I guess we'll see progress next time.  in a couple of years. 

 

 

Not a top 4 team, probably as per ranking or a bit higher.  But we are improving, eg, last night we actually created clear cut chances against class opposition. Missing a Hazard or Modric.

[xylophone]

Loads of posts about who is good and who isn't, and on that subject I will just say that IMO Sterling, Young, Jones and Henderson all looked average and below, if not poor and there was not a real shining light, perhaps apart from Maguire and Pickford, but that's just my opinion.

 

Now looking at this from a completely different angle...........there was a noticeable difference in the style of play in all of the teams that England played and it was never more blatantly highlighted than in this last game.

 

Belgium struck with pace and precision with players running off the ball easily and even when they had a slow buildup, their off the ball work was very good indeed.

 

Now compare that to England's buildup, slow, unsurprising, unable to put the opposition under pressure, sideways, backwards.........I'm sure you get my drift.

 

I remember my coach from the 60s (and he had played professional football) telling the front-runners that they should try and lose their marker and present themselves for a pass, and telling others that whenever these guys presented themselves for the ball, it should be given to them, along with a command such as, "hold it", "time", "turn", or "man on" and then once that ball had been delivered, to move on to support or overlap etc.

 

The other alternative was to play the ball into the space left, this if the marker followed the forward, but it took a player with a degree of skill and reading of the game to do this, as with Hazard or De Bruyne, and England didn't have that either

 

None of this was evident in any of England's play and is probably why the likes of Kane or Rashford, when he was available, were unable to function – – nothing was played to feet and even when they did present themselves, the ball wasn't played to them, just sideways or back.

 

I could go into a lot more detail but those footballers amongst us would know what I'm talking about, so what is it about the current coaching methodology which supports (seemingly) the poor buildup which England utilise?

[balo]

Even if you had an impressive run in the World Cup I am not sure Southgate is the right manager for England. Lack of creativity , a lot of passes without any progress,  you don't look dangerous until you get a free kick or a corner and can do what England does best inside the box. 

 Of course many other teams are even worse than England. I think the English players are better than what they managed to show to the world. 

 

Back in the Premier League you would call some of them world class . 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by balo

[mommysboy]

37 minutes ago, balo said:

Even if you had an impressive run in the World Cup I am not sure Southgate is the right manager for England. Lack of creativity , a lot of passes without any progress,  you don't look dangerous until you get a free kick or a corner and can do what England does best inside the box. 

 Of course many other teams are even worse than England. I think the English players are better than what they managed to show to the world. 

 

Back in the Premier League you would call some of them world class . 

 

 

Southgate has been excellent. Who else?

 

You can only do so much with what you've got.  Quite simply, we lacked midfield creativity.  But some improvements can be made, eg, Dier for Henderson.  Unfortunately, the 2 players that can make a difference, Lallana and Oxlade Chamberlain, weren't available (or fit enough).  But even then to really get amongst the top teams we really need top midfielders. We actually did very well with the squad as it was, and there are one or two players coming through right now, like Lewis Cook, and Harry Winks.  Even moderately good midfielders will make a difference.  When your midfield fulcrum relies on a player of Henderson's very modest talent then you are not going to win a world cup. Yes he brings stability at the back, but at what cost?

 

If there is one lesson to learn, then it is about playing players out of position, eg, play Delph and Sterling where they play at city or probably not at all.  And I think the same goes for Walker (Bredbury B has been saying same all along).

Edited July 15, 2018 by mommysboy

[Bredbury Blue]

I wouldn't  change Southgate. Why would  you? He's  not even halfway through his 4 year contract. He's done ok for us at the WC on and off the pitch.

Leave him in place and see how we go at the Europeans . 

 

 

[Bredbury Blue]

How good were KdB and Hazard last night. If Lukaku had taken the two chances he'd  been given on a plate it would  have  been  worse for us.

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Loads of posts about who is good and who isn't, and on that subject I will just say that IMO Sterling, Young, Jones and Henderson all looked average and below, if not poor and there was not a real shining light, perhaps apart from Maguire and Pickford, but that's just my opinion.

 

Now looking at this from a completely different angle...........there was a noticeable difference in the style of play in all of the teams that England played and it was never more blatantly highlighted than in this last game.

 

Belgium struck with pace and precision with players running off the ball easily and even when they had a slow buildup, their off the ball work was very good indeed.

 

Now compare that to England's buildup, slow, unsurprising, unable to put the opposition under pressure, sideways, backwards.........I'm sure you get my drift.

 

I remember my coach from the 60s (and he had played professional football) telling the front-runners that they should try and lose their marker and present themselves for a pass, and telling others that whenever these guys presented themselves for the ball, it should be given to them, along with a command such as, "hold it", "time", "turn", or "man on" and then once that ball had been delivered, to move on to support or overlap etc.

 

The other alternative was to play the ball into the space left, this if the marker followed the forward, but it took a player with a degree of skill and reading of the game to do this, as with Hazard or De Bruyne, and England didn't have that either

 

None of this was evident in any of England's play and is probably why the likes of Kane or Rashford, when he was available, were unable to function – – nothing was played to feet and even when they did present themselves, the ball wasn't played to them, just sideways or back.

 

I could go into a lot more detail but those footballers amongst us would know what I'm talking about, so what is it about the current coaching methodology which supports (seemingly) the poor buildup which England utilise?

I wouldnt disagree with a lot of your observations. Sterling has been frustratingly poor. Jones and Young proved that don’t have it at international level. I think Henderson has done ok and would pick him over Dier any day of the week although would suggest neither is what we need going forwards. 

 

Pickford has clearly shown why he was chosen as number one, Maguire and also Stones I would say have come of age and will be around for many years to come. I would also add Walker to that’s list. Yes he makes the odd mistake but his pace has saved us too on many occasions. 

 

The game against Belgium, particularly the first half, was extremely frustrating. Pedestrian, predictable,  too many sideways backwards balls enabling Belgium to re group in contrast to them who countered with pace. Clearly they are the better side with top world class players which we simply havent got at present. 

 

I would keep Southgate and see no reason to change him. If it weren’t for him the  some of the positives from this World Cup wouldn’t of even got a game although I do think he has been too loyal to the likes of Sterling and Alli.

 

I guess others with club tinted glasses will see things different, it’s only natural. 

[Mooner]

9 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

Agree with your comments but its interesting  how people see Sterling's performances differently  

Agreed i thought he did well in one game but the glaring facts are that as a player in the last third he is offering virtually nothing.

Running into space a taking defenders with him is a basic requirement of a footballer and its a lesson learnt at a very young age.

No goals, no assists(not counting that 1 2 for Lingards goal).

Doesnt have enough control in tight spaces. Looked like a wide player playing up top.

[Mooner]

Thought the squad was defence heavy. No need for Cahill and Jones when you have Dier especially when Walker was one of the 3.

Also Young is right footed so why the need for Alexander? Although he did very well last year and is a top prospect. 

My point is the game is won by creative players and different options in the last 3rd.

Delph was chosen as CM although he played on the left for city.

Could of not taken Rose who had injuries last season and had Delph as sub LWB.

All these decisions would of freed up spaces for more creative players or a wildcard.

Jones and Cahill barely played or Trent. 

Our midfield options against Belgium were poor. Some more creative risks would of suited us better.

[Bredbury Blue]

I understand all the negative comments about Sterling, he seems to divide people's opinions, but come on, were the other forward players - Kane, Rashford, Vardy, Alli, Lingard, etc - any better or as good. No! But no criticism of them. Kane was a passenger in the last 2 games, when it mattered, against decent oposition, but seems to escape  criticism. 

[smokie36]

23 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

I understand all the negative comments about Sterling, he seems to divide people's opinions, but come on, were the other forward players - Kane, Rashford, Vardy, Alli, Lingard, etc - any better or as good. No! But no criticism of them. Kane was a passenger in the last 2 games, when it mattered, against decent oposition, but seems to escape  criticism. 

 

Kane needs service in order to have opportunities to score. Sterling failed to give him ANY the entire tournament yet he is still up for the Golden boot.

 

Reel your neck in you mumbling buffoon! 

[Mooner]

56 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

I understand all the negative comments about Sterling, he seems to divide people's opinions, but come on, were the other forward players - Kane, Rashford, Vardy, Alli, Lingard, etc - any better or as good. No! But no criticism of them. Kane was a passenger in the last 2 games, when it mattered, against decent oposition, but seems to escape  criticism. 

Rasford and Vardy hardly played and Alli and Lingard both played in midfield and oh yes also scored.

[Bredbury Blue]

1 hour ago, RonniePickering22 said:

 

Kane needs service in order to have opportunities to score. Sterling failed to give him ANY the entire tournament yet he is still up for the Golden boot.

 

Reel your neck in you mumbling buffoon! 

Seem to recall Sterling laying the ball off very nicely to create an excellent  chance for Hotshot 'arry...and i screwed it. And i hope you're not suggesting Kane is in the side not to contribute other than score...how many did he set up for others. 

 

Yes he's  up for the golden boot for a few goals, a few penalties and one deflected goal he knew nowt about. 

 

I hope your not thinking Kane had a good WC even though he'll  get the boot because he didn't.

 

[Bredbury Blue]

1 hour ago, Mooner said:

Rasford and Vardy hardly played and Alli and Lingard both played in midfield and oh yes also scored.

Thought it would have been obvious  from the players i listed i was referring  to the attacking players by the  use of forwards but yeah i should  have used attacking players.

 

Alli scored a goal but he wasn't very good was he...Lingard i think was better. 

[smokie36]

34 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

Seem to recall Sterling laying the ball off very nicely to create an excellent  chance for Hotshot 'arry...and i screwed it. And i hope you're not suggesting Kane is in the side not to contribute other than score...how many did he set up for others. 

 

Yes he's  up for the golden boot for a few goals, a few penalties and one deflected goal he knew nowt about. 

 

I hope your not thinking Kane had a good WC even though he'll  get the boot because he didn't.

 

 

The history books will show he's the first England player to win the golden boot since Gary Lineker.

 

If he was a city player it would be the best player ever. You really are truly one dimensional in your delusion.

[mrbojangles]

14 minutes ago, RonniePickering22 said:

If he was a city player it would be the best player ever. 

Nah. That'd be DeBruyne  ?

[smokie36]

12 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

Nah. That'd be DeBruyne  ?

 

Don't encourage him mrboj....leave him under his bridge!

[mrbojangles]

2 hours ago, RonniePickering22 said:

Kane needs service in order to have opportunities to score. 

Or a world class striker will search for opportunities

[smokie36]

1 minute ago, mrbojangles said:

Or a world class striker will search for opportunities

 

Huddling under your bridge with your pal?

 

If England had won the cup you'd both be singing alto so shut up!!!

[mrbojangles]

Just now, RonniePickering22 said:

If England had won the cup you'd both be singing alto so shut up!!!

But we didn't cos several players didn't step up when it mattered