Tourist visa rejected could it be racism?

[Jingthing]

Actually lots of white people on TV claim everything that happens to them, especially when they believe they've lost face,  is because of racism.  It's pretty much implicit or explicit in much of the whining that fills most threads. And of course if one Thai says or does something they don't like, the whining is directly at every Thai in the country.
 
 
 

You're right and it's true white foreigners are often treated differently in Thailand based on both being white and foreign. Sometimes the different treatment is positive and sometimes negative.

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Actually lots of white people on TV claim everything that happens to them, especially when they believe they've lost face,  is because of racism.  It's pretty much implicit or explicit the whining that fills most threads. And of course if one Thai says or does something they don't like, the whining is directly at every Thai in the country.

If you are anything but "white" - you can form an advocacy group for your ethnicity, and it will be praised.  If you are "white" and do that, you are called a Nazi.  I don't believe in a thing called "race" - agree 100% with Martin Luther King's prescription (also well-articulated by Morgan Freeman, "I'll call you a man, and you call me a man").  

 

But that attitude doesn't divide the working-class, so they can be pit against each other, instead of working together for all of their interests, vs the ruling-class.  So we have billionaires funding 'race/ethnicity' groups in the West - preaching hate for modern-day 'white' folks, based on what long-dead 'white' folks (just 0.01% elites, in reality) once did - which provides nice PC-Cover for pushing poverty-creating "globalization" policies. 

 

Nationalism can be good (defensive) or bad (hateful).  When it goes-bad, race/ethnic-superiority ideas are often a component.  I would not be surprised if that is a factor in what is happening at Airport-immigration, based on other comments - but it would not be a "white vs non-white" thing, for them - rather a "Non-Thai ethnicity" thing.

[Maestro]

4 hours ago, tonray said:

Your visa history would not indicate any abuse of the system IMHO. Did they stamp your passport?  What was the law section cited? 

 

Strictly speaking, a visa or a visa-exempt entry is abused whenever a traveller uses his stay for a purpose other than what the visa or the visa-exempt entry was granted for. That said, it is true that only since recently does immigration appear to apply the label "working illegally in Thailand" more readily to travellers who in the recent past spent an inordinately long time in Thailand for the declared purpose of tourism, without regard to the travellers' nationality, colour, ethnic background, etc.

[Jingthing]

If you are anything but "white" - you can form an advocacy group for your ethnicity, and it will be praised.  If you are "white" and do that, you are called a Nazi.  I don't believe in a thing called "race" - agree 100% with Martin Luther King's prescription (also well-articulated by Morgan Freeman, "I'll call you a man, and you call me a man").  
 
But that attitude doesn't divide the working-class, so they can be pit against each other, instead of working together for all of their interests, vs the ruling-class.  So we have billionaires funding 'race/ethnicity' groups in the West - preaching hate for modern-day 'white' folks, based on what long-dead 'white' folks (just 0.01% elites, in reality) once did - which provides nice PC-Cover for pushing poverty-creating "globalization" policies. 
 
Nationalism can be good (defensive) or bad (hateful).  When it goes-bad, race/ethnic-superiority ideas are often a component.  I would not be surprised if that is a factor in what is happening at Airport-immigration, based on other comments - but it would not be a "white vs non-white" thing, for them - rather a "Non-Thai ethnicity" thing.

Mainstream anthropology suggests that race is not a real thing biologically. But it is a real thing in social perceptions.

[Suradit69]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're right and it's true white foreigners are often treated differently in Thailand based on both being white and foreign. Sometimes the different treatment is positive and sometimes negative.

Definitely exists everywhere and, as you say, it can appear to be positive or negative, but some people do find it to be an easy excuse/explanation when they feel they've been slighted.  And these days it can extend to other personal trait- isms or phobias too.

 

 

[tonray]

11 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

Strictly speaking, a visa or a visa-exempt entry is abused whenever a traveller uses his stay for a purpose other than what the visa or the visa-exempt entry was granted for. That said, it is true that only since recently does immigration appear to apply the label "working illegally in Thailand" more readily to travellers who in the recent past spent an inordinately long time in Thailand for the declared purpose of tourism, without regard to the travellers' nationality, colour, ethnic background, etc.

But he only had one METV which gives him a certain permission to stay. Unless he is leaving out some info, hard to see how they can infer he was spending an inordinately long time in Thailand.

[Suradit69]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If you are anything but "white" - you can form an advocacy group for your ethnicity

History would suggest that non-white. non-European, non-Aryan, non-heterosexual, non-male, non-Christian, etc groups tend to have had more need to form advocacy groups out of self-defense. As to being praised or vilified, most of the non groups listed above have paid a price for having the temerity to stand up for their rights, quite often incurring physical injuries, death, bullying, loss of employment and imprisonment for advocating their rights. That may be news to you if you've lived your life in a heterogeneous privileged majority.

[captspectre]

there is nothing that anyone on this forum can tell you as you have already been deported. however when you get to the P.I. i would go to the Thai embassy, show them your passport with all the legal stamps and ask for advice. yelling and implying racism will only get you shut down! the thai's don't want to hear that.if you get them angry they will just shut the window on you.

[captspectre]

9 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

History would suggest that non-white. non-European, non-Aryan, non-heterosexual, non-male, non-Christian, etc groups tend to have had more need to form advocacy groups out of self-defense. As to being praised or vilified, most of the non groups listed above have paid a price for having the temerity to stand up for their rights, quite often incurring physical injuries, death, bullying, loss of employment and imprisonment for advocating their rights. That may be news to you if you've lived your life in a heterogeneous privileged majority.

is that right? and if you form such a group do you really think that the Thai's will knuckle under and let you in country? in your dreams!  you are not in a liberal country that likes to sing kumbayaa. you are talking about Thailand.

[JackThompson]

21 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

History would suggest that non-white. non-European, non-Aryan, non-heterosexual, non-male, non-Christian, etc groups tend to have had more need to form advocacy groups out of self-defense. As to being praised or vilified, most of the non groups listed above have paid a price for having the temerity to stand up for their rights, quite often incurring physical injuries, death, bullying, loss of employment and imprisonment for advocating their rights. That may be news to you if you've lived your life in a heterogeneous privileged majority.

There is a difference between recognizing the horrible practices in history, and using 'race/ethnicity' to divide people unnecessarily when/where those conditions no longer exist.  It would be foolish to believe that current-conditions of ethnic-groups are not the result of history, but also foolish to hang on to 'race' - when that is no longer the operative factor.  Much better to target, for example, helping the "economically disadvantaged" regardless of 'race', as that would proportionately benefit those whose ancestors' history led to their current situation - but without shutting out / alienating those who may be poor due to non-race/history factors.  The best way to help poorer folks, in the West, is reduce lower-skilled immigrant immigration, so as to drive up wages for those at the bottom.

Race-based policies, in the modern age, are not designed to help the disadvantaged, but to divide us by race, so the ruling-class can laugh as we fight with each other.  Great line in the film Gangs of New York, "hire 1/2 the poor to kill the other 1/2" - and that is what is happening, in a different form - encouraging people to believe that 'racism' is behind everything that happens to them - and if you are white, actively-discriminating against you.  This policy is not a prescription for peace and harmony - nor was it ever intended as such.  It is a policy to provide PC-cover an open-borders / race-to-the-bottom-wage agenda.

 

There are, of course, places where 'race' is still a major discriminatory factor, such as Latin America - where "professional appearance" often means "look like Spanish ancestry."  But in the USA and Europe, 'color' simply is not a factor which significantly hinders economic-mobility, anymore. 

 

Bringing this back to Thailand and Immigration - their nationalism is primarily defensive, and to the extent tariffs are maintained, and foreign-investment is regulated to avoid their nation being "bought out" - I support this.  But, the irony is, as Western 'open borders' increases the difficulty of the poor in the West by flooding in workplace-competition, 'closing borders' in Thailand to Westerners reduces a money-siphon that fuels jobs and increased prosperity for Thailand's poor. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by JackThompson

[darrendsd]

11 minutes ago, captspectre said:

there is nothing that anyone on this forum can tell you as you have already been deported. however when you get to the P.I. i would go to the Thai embassy, show them your passport with all the legal stamps and ask for advice. yelling and implying racism will only get you shut down! the thai's don't want to hear that.if you get them angry they will just shut the window on you.

The Embassy will be able to give him no advice whatsoever, it's Immigration who decide who enters the country not the Embassy

[lkv]

6 hours ago, baansgr said:

It is getting quite worrying, how many examples on T.V. lately and how many more times that which are not members on here. The title is a bit misleading as the OP previously had tourist visas but seems to arrived without a current one.

You should read some of "I got denied entry" posts from 2014. I was looking at one and it was similarly worded to one I have seen recently. I will not divulge the specifics, but I do have strong reasons to believe they were written by the same person. Now and back in 2014. Different usernames obviously.

 

Now some have started having more posts (around 30), to create the impression of genuine posts.

 

Then, there are some with a high number of posts that have always supported paid options, threatening us that "the time has come". 

 

Loads of misinformation here, getting harder to navigate to the truth, but we are getting there.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by lkv

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, captspectre said:

is that right? and if you form such a group do you really think that the Thai's will knuckle under and let you in country? in your dreams!  you are not in a liberal country that likes to sing kumbayaa. you are talking about Thailand.

Nobody is suggesting such thing.

[jeab1980]

The OP has not yet stated what reason he was denied entry or posted a picture of it. Had ample time and oportunity to do so. By dooing this it at least proves his original post was indeed genuine. However i have my doubts now and belive its just a thread to start a racist theme. Prove me wrong op publish a picture of reason for denied entry.

[BritTim]

The OP's denial of entry was probably the result of a number of factors. We will never know which of the following were significant:

• Bias against people based on their appearance does happen. It is a genetically acquired disease that all humans possess to some degree, though some of us try to suppress our tribal instincts, recognizing that they are destructive in modern societies.
• More than six months in Thailand in one year on tourist entries.
• The OP's age.
• A previous overstay (we do not know how long that may have been for).
• Probably, the OP was not very careful in what he said to the immigration official and supervisor.
• Possibly, a well founded suspicion that the OP had previously been working illegally in Thailand. Depending on the kind of work involved, being a couple of months out of the country does not preclude doing so again.
• Failure to have proof of foreign sources of income.
• The immigration official was having a bad day.

It would be good to know if the denial of entry was done according to procedure, with written notification and stamp in passport. If so, posting those notifications here (obscuring personally identifiable information) would be helpful in recommending a future course of action.

[bkk6060]

There is a simple answer to this thread.  OP asks : Could it be racism?  Yes, simply sure it could be that...... 

[lkv]

.

Edited July 24, 2017 by lkv
Deleted

[buick]

just to provide a data point, i flew in from MNL after a 5 day trip in jan 2017, visa exempt.  my history was 8 months in thailand every year for 10 years.  i stayed 10 days in thailand and went to HK for 3 weeks, returned with a visa exempt entry.  trip to MNL was in economy, trip to HK was business class.  i am white with US passport.  age 51 (got non imm O upon return from HK).  

 

age could be the issue for the OP.  

[darrendsd]

20 minutes ago, lkv said:

You should read some of "I got denied entry" posts from 2014. I was looking at one and it was similarly worded to one I have seen recently. I will not divulge the specifics, but I do have strong reasons to believe they were written by the same person. Now and back in 2014. Different usernames obviously.

 

Now some have started having more posts (around 30), to create the impression of genuine posts.

 

Then, there are some with a high number of posts that have always supported paid options, threatening us that "the time has come". 

 

Loads of misinformation here, getting harder to navigate to the truth, but we are getting there.

 

 

This is real and it is happening

 

I have 1 friend who was grilled for a hour by Immigration before eventually being let in and another who was refused entry, 

[lkv]

5 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

This is real and it is happening

 

I have 1 friend who was grilled for a hour by Immigration before eventually being let in and another who was refused entry, 

I'm not doubting that people get grilled at a certain numbers of visa exempt entries or some getting rejected to prove a point perhaps.

 

This has made it to the UK papers. The way it has been reported though has made them to back off about the 20K requirement. They don't want to actually scare genuine tourists off.

 

But this has become a drama extended to all sorts of legally issued visas (including SETV), and let's just say, being polite here, that I am skeptical about some of those reports.

Edited July 24, 2017 by lkv

[RowdyAlpha]

You said it yourself. You where living in thailand on a tourist visa. Maybe immigration is getting smarter this time around, not racist at all.

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[elliss]

Just now, 11223344 said:

Maybe they refuse entry to people who spent a very long time in Thailand and haven't been active on TV. Again, refused entry for the first time poster 

  Aliens ,   we   have  too  many , soo  many in LOS ,  who are inactive on TVF .

A cull is needed , post now  or suffer the consequences ,  you have been warned .

  Racist  my  arse ,  dream on . 

Edited July 24, 2017 by elliss

[1130bobs]

You sound fairly well educated & traveled, & say you have been here for years.  You should know that there is racism as you describe.  It exists all over the world & is part of human DNA. Not to hate others, but to prefer those of similar looks & culture - food, ethics, religion, etc.   The difference is that, unlike USA where laws have pushed PC too far (trump is the result), here the authorities are allowed to use ' common sense & their experience'  to try to get best results . ie. identify & keep questionable people out.  I am told similar practices exist in Israel & other countries.

There could also be some backlash to recent tightening of USA immigration policy.  I hear of old rich Americans here having trouble getting visitor visas for their Thai relations.  

 

It could also be the recent ISIS activity in Philippines!  Do you know about that?????  friends of yours????   share a prayer rug?   You are getting the backlash of terrorist activity as you travel.

[csabo]

Afagani/American is not a race FYI 

[dansbkk]

Oh yes, let's all scream racism.  It is an extremely popular way to throw a tantrum when you don't get your way.

[BradinAsia]

3 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

History would suggest that non-white. non-European, non-Aryan, non-heterosexual, non-male, non-Christian, etc groups tend to have had more need to form advocacy groups out of self-defense. As to being praised or vilified, most of the non groups listed above have paid a price for having the temerity to stand up for their rights, quite often incurring physical injuries, death, bullying, loss of employment and imprisonment for advocating their rights. That may be news to you if you've lived your life in a heterogeneous privileged majority.

 

Suradit, this is one of the most intelligent posts I have encountered on TV in many years. It's just too bad that so many folks are not capable of seeing the reality that you so accurately describe, especially since it is as obvious-as-the-nose-on-your-face . 

[YetAnother]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

For China that is by law. Here there is nothing that says a Thai cannot have dual nationalities.

The post about one being torn up was shortly after the coup in 2014 and it a was military officer that tore it up not an immigration officer.

doubtless , you are right; pretty ugly tho; shows the whimsickelness

[Maestro]

4 hours ago, tonray said:

But he only had one METV which gives him a certain permission to stay. Unless he is leaving out some info, hard to see how they can infer he was spending an inordinately long time in Thailand.

 

The number of visas is an inadequate measure of the duration of a traveller's continuous stay, with some border runs. For example, the OP wrote that, with his one visa, he stayed nine months and two months later returned to Thailand for more, all for the declared purpose of tourism.

[JayBird]

it sounds like they suspected you are living in Thailand, and to be fair: You are.

 

What was the official reason for denial, and was a note written in your passport.

 

I do believe suspect of living in Thailand without correct visa. (metv is not) is a valid reason.

 

Time to move on to Elite, retiree, or something clearly intended for long stay / resident.

[balo]

OP should give us the reason why he was denied.