Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[talahtnut]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

 

The key word being "Claims".

 

As pointed out by nauseus, the timing of these claims stinks.Logically, all this should have come out at the time of the alleged offences.

Yes, same stink surrounds the Salibury affair.   Alleged, likely, probable, etc.

Investigation results Classified..No-one allowed to visit the Skripals.

They are not going to make out alive.

[Orac]

 
The key word being "Claims".
 
As pointed out by nauseus, the timing of these claims stinks.Logically, all this should have come out at the time of the alleged offences.

Most of the stuff coming out now has been known for some time with articles from Carol Cadwalladr and various others appearing since 2016 covering this.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[aright]

One year until the Article 50 deadline – and we'd still probably vote for Brexit

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/28/one-year-article-50-deadline-still-probably-vote-brexit/

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

 

The key word being "Claims".

 

As pointed out by nauseus, the timing of these claims stinks.Logically, all this should have come out at the time of the alleged offences.

Appart from these ‘claims’ are now backed by documentary evidence that the whistleblower has now handed to the electoral commission.

 

The existance of document evidence opens the door to take this out of the hands of politicians (specifically out of the hands of the government) and place the Electoral Fraud/Legality of the result before the courts.

 

This is going to get very interesting.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, aright said:

One year until the Article 50 deadline – and we'd still probably vote for Brexit

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/28/one-year-article-50-deadline-still-probably-vote-brexit/

Don’t count on support from UK fishing communities.

[owl sees all]

11 minutes ago, aright said:

One year until the Article 50 deadline – and we'd still probably vote for Brexit

Of course we would. Get out from under the EU's jack-boot before it all implodes.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, oldlakey said:

Why should I believe you

People are perfectly free to believe what they want but some seem to think it is only a few on this forum that think it is not in the best interests of the country. But there again what would the SMMT know about anything, no doubt the project fear brigade will be waving the flags again.

 

"With one year to go until the UK departs the EU, the trade association for the car sector has issued a fresh ferocious Brexit warning, cautioning that a cliff edge – even after the agreed transition period – would be disastrous for one of Britain’s most important industries."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/car-industry-brexit-economy-smmt-jobs-production-manufacturing-transition-deal-a8276026.html?S2ref=1532332

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

 

The key word being "Claims".

 

As pointed out by nauseus, the timing of these claims stinks.Logically, all this should have come out at the time of the alleged offences.

And which of the "Claims" should be investigated or ignored.

 

"On Nov. 21, Britain’s Electoral Commission opened its fourth current investigation into the activities of those who successfully campaigned for Britain to leave the European Union in a 2016 referendum."

https://qz.com/1134845/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-investigations-into-the-brexit-campaign/

[sandyf]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Appart from these ‘claims’ are now backed by documentary evidence that the whistleblower has now handed to the electoral commission.

 

The existance of document evidence opens the door to take this out of the hands of politicians (specifically out of the hands of the government) and place the Electoral Fraud/Legality of the result before the courts.

 

This is going to get very interesting.

You mean bring in the 'Enemies of the people', not going to go down well.

 

"Remainers shouldn’t start dreaming about another referendum—the Electoral Commission’s punishments are more about political symbolism than undoing results. The Electoral Commission can issue a maximum £20,000 fine per offence and can refer cases with possible criminal implications to the police. A heavy indictment might boost voices at Westminster calling for a new vote, but that’s out of the Commission’s hands."

https://qz.com/1134845/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-investigations-into-the-brexit-campaign/

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, aright said:

One year until the Article 50 deadline – and we'd still probably vote for Brexit

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/28/one-year-article-50-deadline-still-probably-vote-brexit/

 

The graph shows Wrong to be in the lead of Right, wouldn't that imply that actually we have changed our minds?

 

And then there is the 16 point lead for a 2nd referendum...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/26/britons-favour-second-referendum-brexit-icm-poll

 

[Kieran00001]

53 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You mean bring in the 'Enemies of the people', not going to go down well.

 

"Remainers shouldn’t start dreaming about another referendum—the Electoral Commission’s punishments are more about political symbolism than undoing results. The Electoral Commission can issue a maximum £20,000 fine per offence and can refer cases with possible criminal implications to the police. A heavy indictment might boost voices at Westminster calling for a new vote, but that’s out of the Commission’s hands."

https://qz.com/1134845/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-investigations-into-the-brexit-campaign/

 

Not sure if there is any difference in this respect between referendums than elections, but if it were the latter, and the Commission referred the case the police and resulted in a guilty charge, then the election result would be voided.

 

Where it is reported that the candidate, by his agents, 
has been guilty of any corrupt practice, lie is precluded 
from sitting in the House of Commons for that county or 
borough for seven years from the date of the report; and 
in both cases the election is void.

THE CORRUPT PRACTICES ACT, 1883

[aright]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The graph shows Wrong to be in the lead of Right, wouldn't that imply that actually we have changed our minds?

 

And then there is the 16 point lead for a 2nd referendum...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/26/britons-favour-second-referendum-brexit-icm-poll

 

Just before the referendum the same poll showed a 2% majority in favour of remaining which, on the day, eventuated as a 4% majority in favour of leaving, they have extrapolated that to this latest poll.

This is certainly not in keeping with many remainers who claim a significant number of leavers have changed their mind. You are of course free to take it or leave it.

A second referendum is very expensive and pointless if as the yougov poll says the outcome would be the same

[StraightTalk]

Prime Minister May needed a diversion from her abject failures. She never wanted Brexit and she has contempt for the British people. Most British people see through her & Johnson and don't believe all the lies about Russians poisoning their traitors.

Considering the lunacy of Boris Johnson along with the erratic behavior of other senior members of the British Parliament, one wonders if England should be left to its own - can we really trust the British to govern themselves properly? Or is done purposely to turn around Brexit...

Edited March 29, 2018 by StraightTalk
added paragrahp

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Of course we would. Get out from under the EU's jack-boot before it all implodes.

Don't be so silly!

[owl sees all]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Don't be so silly!

I'm all for a united Europe. But not this model where bankers, big business and unelected bods run the show.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Just before the referendum the same poll showed a 2% majority in favour of remaining which, on the day, eventuated as a 4% majority in favour of leaving, they have extrapolated that to this latest poll.

This is certainly not in keeping with many remainers who claim a significant number of leavers have changed their mind. You are of course free to take it or leave it.

A second referendum is very expensive and pointless if as the yougov poll says the outcome would be the same

Why do you say the results have been extrapolated? I conclude that this is a new poll showing a small overall majority for remaining

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I'm all for a united Europe. But not this model where bankers, big business and unelected bods run the show.

The EU is far from perfect and many changes are well overdue. However these conspiracy theories involving Jewish bankers and the like are codswallop!

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, Orac said:

 

Most of the stuff coming out now has been known for some time with articles from Carol Cadwalladr and various others appearing since 2016 covering this.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

Your post is a bit disingenuous. Journalists have been making claims about the funding and influence of CA and suchlike. The two 'whistleblowers', Christopher Wylie and Shamir Sammi, have only recently come out with their rather vague claims. In my view, this story is being created, rather than unearthed.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Just before the referendum the same poll showed a 2% majority in favour of remaining which, on the day, eventuated as a 4% majority in favour of leaving, they have extrapolated that to this latest poll.

This is certainly not in keeping with many remainers who claim a significant number of leavers have changed their mind. You are of course free to take it or leave it.

A second referendum is very expensive and pointless if as the yougov poll says the outcome would be the same

"A second referendum is very expensive and pointless if as the yougov poll says the outcome would be the same"

 

So if the yougov poll would indicate a change you would be in favour of a second referendum?

Weren't you one of the people who claimed polls were totally unreliable?

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Appart from these ‘claims’ are now backed by documentary evidence that the whistleblower has now handed to the electoral commission.

 

The existance of document evidence opens the door to take this out of the hands of politicians (specifically out of the hands of the government) and place the Electoral Fraud/Legality of the result before the courts.

 

This is going to get very interesting.

 

Documentary evidence from when? Wylie has been out of the industry since mid-2014. His documentary evidence will say the same vague things that Wylie himself has already said.

[Orac]

 

Documentary evidence from when? Wylie has been out of the industry since mid-2014. His documentary evidence will say the same vague things that Wylie himself has already said.

 

That would be the evidence linking SCL/Cambridge Analytica to AIQ who worked on the official Vote Leave campaign.

 

 

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[aright]

39 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Why do you say the results have been extrapolated? I conclude that this is a new poll showing a small overall majority for remaining

You are correct! But on the basis of the poll just before the referendum whose outcome was out by 4% they have applied that margin of error and concluded a vote now would be no different. It's not rocket science , the clue is in the headline. 

Please address all your future correspondence on this matter to yougov. I am in Pattaya at the moment and looking forward to showing off my new posing pouch tonight, I can't be dealing with your small talk.  

[aright]

23 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"A second referendum is very expensive and pointless if as the yougov poll says the outcome would be the same"

 

So if the yougov poll would indicate a change you would be in favour of a second referendum?

Weren't you one of the people who claimed polls were totally unreliable?

er no!

[Jingthing]

My POV is that it was really close and the consequences are so massive, that if there is much doubt about how the initial vote was done (and there IS) why not have a redo and effect much more serious overview of the campaigns, so with the new vote, the doubt can be erased. 

[billd766]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I know posts. I have the best posts. 

More seriously, from an outsider's view it seems that the measure passed narrowly based on a fake news campaign. Such a big decision shouldn't be decided that way. 

 

The thing that gets to me is that all the information about the referendum was published before the event.

 

Why did NOBODY pick up on that until AFTER the referendum. The rusult was a simple majority vote and whichever side gained the majority won the referendum. Now if the majority was only a few thousand then I would agree to recounts etc, but it was over a million votes.

 

Only after the result did then remainers start to complain but would they have complained if they had won.

 

If the Leavers had lost and started whinging and whiners from the Remainers are doing now would the leavers have replied, Tough, your side lost. There will be no more referendums!

[CG1 Blue]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No sir.

 

http://www.paywallnews.com/news/Did-Vote-Leave-cheat-to-win-the-Brexit-referendum-.H1ggAkd9z.html

 

As I said in another string:

 

If you are desperate enough you will be able to dig up wrongdoings in just about every national election or referendum. If Leavers were as desperate as Remainers they would no doubt uncover a vast array of wrongdoings on the Remain campaign side. The fact is, the Leavers don't need to, so we are only hearing one side of the story here.

 

Secondly, the sitting UK government took sides in the referendum - something that never should have been allowed. They spent £9m of tax payers' money to leaflet every household on behalf of Remain. How that was allowed I'll never know.

 

So your point is invalid in my opinion. Just desperate remainers grasping at straws.

[Khun Han]

52 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

That would be the evidence linking SCL/Cambridge Analytica to AIQ who worked on the official Vote Leave campaign.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Which is not evidence in of itself of corruption.

[Jingthing]

49 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

...

 

So your point is invalid in my opinion. Just desperate remainers grasping at straws.

Honestly, I'm not at all desperate.

As an American, I feel that the UK is a good friend, and when a good friend makes a huge mistake, you hope they can find a way to undo it.

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

As I said in another string:

 

If you are desperate enough you will be able to dig up wrongdoings in just about every national election or referendum. If Leavers were as desperate as Remainers they would no doubt uncover a vast array of wrongdoings on the Remain campaign side. The fact is, the Leavers don't need to, so we are only hearing one side of the story here.

 

Secondly, the sitting UK government took sides in the referendum - something that never should have been allowed. They spent £9m of tax payers' money to leaflet every household on behalf of Remain. How that was allowed I'll never know.

 

So your point is invalid in my opinion. Just desperate remainers grasping at straws.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

 

 

This is the famous government leaflet. Seems entirely reasonable to me.

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Grouse

[sandyf]

On 3/28/2018 at 12:46 AM, nontabury said:

Forget it, once bitten, twice shy.

 

 

And you would believe that there is absolutely no possibility whatsover that you could be wrong.

 

"The country is expected to be 52:48 in favour of EU membership by 2021, according to the study by experts at the University of Manchester - and have a majority of 54:46 by 2026."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-britain-eu-stay-2021-public-opinion-society-changes-theresa-may-transition-deal-a8278146.html?S2ref=1532332