Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[Langsuan Man]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

yeap...you can do that.  

Correct, just use all the information you have on file with your US bank for Bangkok Bank EFTS for SWIFT wires and they will be treated as domestic wires for fee purposes,  but will provide all the information Bangkok Bank NY needs to comply with "know your customer" regulations

 

I did a domestic wire as a test from Fidelity once, but since they offer free International Wires, found it cheaper to use International SWIFT directly to BB here in Thailand 

 

Just remember that you will still be subject to the same fee schedule as with EFTS here in Thailand and I am pretty sure that BM Pib posted the schedule in this thread

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 2/19/2020 at 4:24 PM, longball53098 said:

I think I read on here info about setting up a domestic wire from a US bank to BBL New York and using them to transfer to the BBL account in Thailand but I cannot see the info and 68 pages is too much looking for my old eyes. I think the discussion lasted for a few pages about using New York for a domestic wire and some other types of transfers as well.

 

Pib, any help on this ???

 

If memory serves, assuming you're setting up the domestic wire to BKKB NY online, you basically need just two pieces of info to input with your sending entity -- the same BKKB NY ACH 9-digit routing number you've used in the past for ACH xfers toBKKB NY, and then the full account number for your BKKB TH account that you want the funds deposited in.

 

Some sending entities, also ask for the physical location address for the recipient party (being you). Others don't ask for that, and only ask you to enter the BKKB NY routing number along with your BKKB TH account number.

 

BKKB NY will charge the same sliding scale handling fee based on the transfer amount for handling the domestic wire to BKKB TH that they used to charge for ACH xfers to BKKB TH. And BKKB TH on their end will also charge their standard commission rate, 0.25% on the incoming amount, minimum 200b and maximum 500b.

 

 

[TGIR]

Almost forgot to update this info.  I decided I didn't want to use Transferwise or anything else that Bangkok Bank recommended........so I tried something different.  I whipped out the old Wells Fargo Checkbook that I haven't used for several years and wrote myself a check for $6,000.  Now I know that seems like a dumb idea to some, but I am not in any hurry to get the money over here.  I bring some over every three or four months to freshen up my checking account balance but I always have several hundred thousand baht in BofB so I don't care that it will take (get this!) 45 days for my check to clear.  It only cost me about 400 baht, can't remember exactly, and since the brain-trust at the counter didn't even know how to write a check or how to endorse one it took awhile.  After a few minutes I was ready to choke the teller so I took a calm-yourself-down break and asked the Thai wife to finish up for me.  I did have to sign a few copies of stuff they made and the check had to be re-written three times to satisfy them but we got the deal done.  I decided in the future I will take my latest book I'm reading to the bank and read while the Missus takes care of the gals at the counter (still have to be there to sign all the photo copies etc.)  It's a joint account so they made both of us sign the check, and the endorsement on the back as well as several photo copies of passport etc.  We always go together anyway as my Thai is only good for playing golf.   All in all if you don't mind waiting for the 45 days it is cheap and relatively easy, and you can do it all at the bank.  Once the check clears I'll do some research as to why in today's electronic age it took 45 days and update you all.  Also I'll be smart enough to just sign where told to and keep my blood pressure at a reasonable level.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, TGIR said:

It only cost me about 400 baht, can't remember exactly,

How'd you figure that? Anyway, if the check doesn't cash until 45 days hence, maybe the baht will be at 34, and you'd be a winner. Keep us advised, as I'm curious -- but not an option for me, since my checks have all mildewed.

[Pib]

That's the bank's fee to cash/process a foreign personal check.  Bt400 plus a Bt3 stamp duty.  As far as I know the exchange rate you get will be the sight bill/cheque exchange rate that runs around 0.1 baht lower than the TT Buying Rate used for incoming international transfers like a SWIFT/ACH transfer.  

[bkk6060]

3 hours ago, TGIR said:

Almost forgot to update this info.  I decided I didn't want to use Transferwise or anything else that Bangkok Bank recommended........so I tried something different.  I whipped out the old Wells Fargo Checkbook that I haven't used for several years and wrote myself a check for $6,000.  Now I know that seems like a dumb idea to some, 

Well, you said it.  Maybe one of the dumbest things I have heard.

Add to many others in this thread.

I do not get the problem..:

US bank account.

Do an online wire transfer from that account.  I know it is a killer fee for some total $25.

Send whatever money you decide. Shows up in 2 days at BKK Bank as "international transfer".

Works for Visa extension or whatever.

 

So, you saved about 14 bucks to wait 43 additional days for your money.

For what??

 

I assume saving $14 is that important to you?  

Wow OK. Seems totally ridiculous and nonsensical to me.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by bkk6060

[Pib]

3 hours ago, TGIR said:

 Once the check clears I'll do some research as to why in today's electronic age it took 45 days and update you all.  Also I'll be smart enough to just sign where told to and keep my blood pressure at a reasonable level.

I think you will find the reason is the Thai bank mails the check for collection to a US processing bank who in turn electronically processes/cashes the check and then there is some processing time back to the Thai bank. Throw-in additional days for "clearing" time under Thai and home country clearing time rules and it could take up to 45 days.  But I expect the process will only take approx 3 weeks based on previous ThaiVisa posts where people have done the personal check thing....the 45 day estimate is probably a worst case estimate. 

[srowndedbyh2o]

12 hours ago, TGIR said:

...why in today's electronic age it took 45 days...

Maybe because "in today's electronic age” you wrote a paper check? ????

[lopburi3]

3 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Maybe because "in today's electronic age” you wrote a paper check? ????

Actually that delay dates back decades - long before the electronic age.  Years ago Bangkok Bank was offering short clearance time with direct deposit scan system (but limitations on check amount/type) but have not seen any recent advertising of this service.  As said above normally 3-4 weeks was the actual time.

[soisanuk]

4 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually that delay dates back decades - long before the electronic age.  Years ago Bangkok Bank was offering short clearance time with direct deposit scan system (but limitations on check amount/type) but have not seen any recent advertising of this service.  As said above normally 3-4 weeks was the actual time.

About 20 years ago, I obtained a paper cashiers check from my US bank drawn on their Thai correspondent bank in baht - mailed to my Thai friend who deposited in their account -- still took 45 days for funds to be available to them. So, I went back the not cheap Int'l wire transfers.

Edited February 28, 2020 by soisanuk

[bkk6060]

6 minutes ago, soisanuk said:

About 20 years ago, I obtained a paper cashiers check from my US bank drawn on their Thai correspondent bank in baht 

Almost thought and would not had been surprised you would tell us, it took 20 years to clear. ????

 

[TGIR]

17 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Well, you said it.  Maybe one of the dumbest things I have heard.

Add to many others in this thread.

I do not get the problem..:

US bank account.

Do an online wire transfer from that account.  I know it is a killer fee for some total $25.

Send whatever money you decide. Shows up in 2 days at BKK Bank as "international transfer".

Works for Visa extension or whatever.

 

So, you saved about 14 bucks to wait 43 additional days for your money.

For what??

 

I assume saving $14 is that important to you?  

Wow OK. Seems totally ridiculous and nonsensical to me.

 

 

NIce post......next time try knowing what you're talking about.  I bank at Wells Fargo using an internet account (no branch) and have been doing so for the last 14 years that I've lived in Thailand.  I have had BKK set up as a domestic transfer for most of those years and it worked fine until last month, when, in line with the notice last year they finally bounced a $6K transfer.   My Wells Fargo account says it can make international wire transfers outside of the "domestic transfer", but only to 28 countries.  Thailand isn't one of those countries. 

 

As I explained in my post I didn't care that the exchange of funds too 45 days nor was I concerned with the cost.  I just didn't want to go through all the hassle I keep reading about in Thai Visa.  I have no idea why you didn't read my entire post, but if your bank will continue to do transfers through the New York Bangkok Bank branch please let me know which bank it is.

 

 

[coccigelus]

To those that have an IB brokerage account It seems are coming bad news having just received the following: See pics. 

 

So what options are still available to send money in Thailand? Is US Bangkok Bank route a still viable option ?

 

So TW usd account & Bangkok bank via JP morgan routes closed. Note that My IB account address report correctly my residency which is Thailand. Look absurd this situation. 

[Pib]

9 hours ago, coccigelus said:

So what options are still available to send money in Thailand? Is US Bangkok Bank route a still viable option ?

Bangkok Bank NY is only an option for an "ACH" transfer if its sent in "International ACH Transaction (IAT)" format which very few sending financial organizations use except some larger financial organizations that do offer ACH IAT transfers usually for business customers who pay foreign payroll, etc.   But for the typical person ACH IAT is not offered; instead, SWIFT (Int'l Wire) must be used.

 

A person can also send a "domestic" wire to Bangkok Bank "NY" who will relay it to your Bangkok Bank acct in Thailand just like they do for ACH IAT transfers...that is, ACH transfers being relayed thru their NY  branch.  

 

Seems like several of the IB bullet statements would still allow you to do transfer to Thailand since you have a Thailand address onfile with them.   If I'm understanding some of those bullets correctly I wonder why they are shutting down your two transfer links.

 

 

 

 

[coccigelus]

Thank You Pib to have taken the time to answer. Indeed It's quite frustrating especially the Bangkok bank route through JP which was the option suggested by their terminal. But If You are confirming me that the wire protocol (not ach) through their US branch is still a viable option I would not be that concerned. Can You pls confirm this?

 

Regarding TW borderless account They flag only the USD option but de facto I believe, I would not be able anymore to transfer directly to TW borderless account as I read TW can accept funds only in USD from brokerage account. (although I think I have actually did in the past) To be honest I am not surprise at all by TW being flag as IB has cracked down hardly with TW before when I had my residency in Europe. JP route being red flag though is a mystery and somewhat something that I do not understand the reasons unless is a mistake from their end. (because I am resident in Thailand so I am supposed to being able doing an international wire..)

 

For me the reason to use TW was principally due to the fact that I do not have to incur in double currency exchange for services I am paying in the US. So from now I would have to wire from IB in euro and then pay my services in USD dollar. I can't open an US bank account so unless You have some ideas this is a bummer. 

 

Again, Thank You so much

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, coccigelus said:

Thank You Pib to have taken the time to answer. Indeed It's quite frustrating especially the Bangkok bank route through JP which was the option suggested by their terminal. But If You are confirming me that the wire protocol (not ach) through their US branch is still a viable option I would not be that concerned. Can You pls confirm this?

The domestic wire to the NY branch worked fine when I did a test about 9 months ago....and I've had PMs with a person who successfully used it "over the last month."  You still incur the same Bangkok Bank costs as in the ACH method....that is, the NY branch pass-thru fee and the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank receiving fee.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 hours ago, coccigelus said:

So TW usd account & Bangkok bank via JP morgan routes closed. Note that My IB account address report correctly my residency which is Thailand. Look absurd this situation. 

 

It would be helpful, if you could clarify just what exact kind of transactions IB is telling you you can no longer do...

 

Are those entries referencing domestic wires from IB in the U.S. to BKKB NY and then onward to Thailand. Or are they referencing international wires from your IB account to BKKB Thailand via JP Morgan as an intermediary bank?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, Pib said:

A person can also send a "domestic" wire to Bangkok Bank "NY" who will relay it to your Bangkok Bank acct in Thailand just like they do for ACH IAT transfers...that is, ACH transfers being relayed thru their NY  branch.  

 

Doing domestic wires thru BKKB NY is likely to be easier and less expensive (lower wire transfer fees) for most people as compared to sending an international wire direct to Thailand. Plus, some U.S. banks make it difficult to send international wires unless you jump thru various authorization hoops. Domestic wires generally don't have those issues.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

The domestic wire to the NY branch worked fine when I did a test about 9 months ago....and I've had PMs with a person who successfully used it "over the last month."  You still incur the same Bangkok Bank costs as in the ACH method....that is, the NY branch pass-thru fee and the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank receiving fee.

 

I've done domestic wires thru BKKB NY within the past month, and they both worked flawlessly. I did the wire request online around dinner time here in TH, and the funds were in my BKKB TH account the next morning in each case for weekday transactions.

 

It's just a matter of using the 9-digit routing/ABA number for the BKKB NY branch and then the sender's full BKKB TH account number as the recipient information. BKKB NY takes care of the rest.

[coccigelus]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It would be helpful, if you could clarify just what exact kind of transactions IB is telling you you can no longer do...

 

Are those entries referencing domestic wires from IB in the U.S. to BKKB NY and then onward to Thailand. Or are they referencing international wires from your IB account to BKKB Thailand via JP Morgan as an intermediary bank?

 

They are going to block after 31 july the international wire from my IB account to BKKB Thailand via JP Morgan. And the wire transfer to the TW borderless USD account which is held at the Community federal Bank. So i believe TW borderless account is useless right now because I read that TW B.A. can only accept USD incoming wires when a brokerage account is used. ( but not sure is really the case as I actually did at least one denominated in Euro a while ago) 

 

Ban of the int wire Via JP does not make really sense as it was the recommended way to wire to BKKB by their portal.

Edited July 11, 2020 by coccigelus

[Pib]

it sure seems to me based on info your have provided and that IB KB3442 article that you should still be authorized to do the transfers you are doing...and I've read that article numerous times.  But I guess there is something I don't understand....or the article doesn't address/discuss fine print that is the real cause....or IB is just shutting down transfers to Thailand based on policy not included in the article. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, coccigelus said:

They are going to block after 31 july the international wire from my IB account to BKKB Thailand via JP Morgan.

 

It sounds like switching to domestic wire transfers from your IB account to BKKB NY (and them forwarding the funds onward to your BKKB TH account) should be a perfectly fine alternative, and one that could save you money -- unless IB was giving you totally free intl wires and they won't do the same for domestic ones.

[coccigelus]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

it sure seems to me based on info your have provided and that IB KB3442 article that you should still be authorized to do the transfers you are doing...and I've read that article numerous times.  But I guess there is something I don't understand....or the article doesn't address/discuss fine print that is the real cause....or IB is just shutting down transfers to Thailand based on policy not included in the article. 

Pib i tried to find out the answer i’ve got from an Ib representative when i was still an European resident for IB when I asked clarifications about the banning of the borderless account. Basically the answer was that TW borderless account is not a bank and thus IB can’t wire (or get deposit)to a different entity than a bank. I will try to check out tomorrow when I will come back to my office and see if i am able to find out the answer I’ve got by IB but that was a different account so maybe It got deleted. (As I had to close the old account and reopen a new one with the residency in Thailand.) Regarding the banning of the JP venue I agree with You that doesn’t make sense and I am going to clarify further. I am actually a bit renitent to mess up because I believe following the same reasoning should be banned also some euro venues i have which are fintech not technically banks.  Unless the issue is merely USD which is very possible as well. I am open to advices how to construct a possible question to submit to IB if You or TGJB have any . 

[coccigelus]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It sounds like switching to domestic wire transfers from your IB account to BKKB NY (and them forwarding the funds onward to your BKKB TH account) should be a perfectly fine alternative, and one that could save you money -- unless IB was giving you totally free intl wires and they won't do the same for domestic ones.

Well I was agreeing with You before to read the answer of another guy that was suggesting the JP venue was actually cheaper. It’s located somewhere in this thread. Pib can probably recall this as If I remember correctly was suggesting the same. Not big difference but cheaper via Jp rather than wire through bkkb Us via wire.

[srowndedbyh2o]

17 hours ago, Pib said:

The domestic wire to the NY branch worked fine when I did a test about 9 months ago....and I've had PMs with a person who successfully used it "over the last month."  You still incur the same Bangkok Bank costs as in the ACH method....that is, the NY branch pass-thru fee and the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank receiving fee.

Sorry to cut in on the conversation, but I don’t totally understand how the domestic wire transfer works through BKK Bank NY.

It’s my understanding that you use the routing number of BKK Bank NY, and the account number of the receiving BKK Bank in Thailand. However, when doing a domestic wire transfer, doesn’t the sending bank require the recipients address? Since that recipient address is an address in Thailand, wouldn’t the sending bank just reject the transfer? Or are they only concerned that the routing number is that of a bank in the US?

Thanks.

[Pib]

5 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Sorry to cut in on the conversation, but I don’t totally understand how the domestic wire transfer works through BKK Bank NY.

It’s my understanding that you use the routing number of BKK Bank NY, and the account number of the receiving BKK Bank in Thailand. However, when doing a domestic wire transfer, doesn’t the sending bank require the recipients address? Since that recipient address is an address in Thailand, wouldn’t the sending bank just reject the transfer? Or are they only concerned that the routing number is that of a bank in the US?

Thanks.

Their core requirement is the routing number...that's the funds are going to a US bank. 

 

When entering the address of the recipient you are just identifying his address as required.  Although his address is a foriegn address that does not mean the funds are actually being sent to a foriegn location...it just the recipient's address and quite possibly the address the person has on file with routing number bank.  A person can have a US bank acct with a foriegn address.  Several of my US bank accts have my Thailand. The sending bank assumes the person does have an acct at the routing number bank. 

 

So, the sending bank has fully complied with sending requirements....sent the money to the routing number bank.  Now it's up to the receiving bank (Bkk Bk NY) to comply with requirements to relay the funds to Thailand and they can legally do such using their internal controls/documentation and the recipient's info (like foriegn address) you included in wire.  Everybody is happy and complied with requirements.

 

[srowndedbyh2o]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Their core requirement is the routing number...that's the funds are going to a US bank. 

 

When entering the address of the recipient you are just identifying his address as required.  Although his address is a foriegn address that does not mean the funds are actually being sent to a foriegn location...it just the recipient's address and quite possibly the address the person has on file with routing number bank.  A person can have a US bank acct with a foriegn address.  Several of my US bank accts have my Thailand. The sending bank assumes the person does have an acct at the routing number bank. 

 

So, the sending bank has fully complied with sending requirements....sent the money to the routing number bank.  Now it's up to the receiving bank (Bkk Bk NY) to comply with requirements to relay the funds to Thailand and they can legally do such using their internal controls/documentation and the recipient's info (like foriegn address) you included in wire.  Everybody is happy and complied with requirements.

 

Excellent. Thank you!????

[bubba1]

What's the advantage of using the domestic wire to Bangkok Bank over transferwise?

@TallGuyJohninBKK

@Pib

[Pib]

18 hours ago, coccigelus said:

Pib i tried to find out the answer i’ve got from an Ib representative when i was still an European resident for IB when I asked clarifications about the banning of the borderless account. Basically the answer was that TW borderless account is not a bank and thus IB can’t wire (or get deposit)to a different entity than a bank. 

 

Transferwise (TW) is indeed not a bank; they are a payment service provided.  See the quotes I cut and pasted from their Customer Agreement/Terms of Agreement.  Even when you have a borderless acct with TW that is really an acct with TW and not its partner bank(s). Now TW does indeed have a "master" bank acct with its partner bank(s), but when you get issued a borderless acct your are really just being issued a TW acct linked to that master acct.  

 

I expect IB is just taking the position that they know how TW operates with their borderless acct setup and what TW really is--a payment service vs a bank.   And for whatever reasons IB does not want to do transfers to a payment service--surely just "their" policy.   

 

Over the last few years I remember seeing a few (just a few) ThaiVisa posts here and there where a person's US bank deleted a person's ACH Transfer Link or Bill Pay the person had setup to push funds to TW...once again, it just seemed to be that particular bank's policy that they didn't consider TW meeting the requirements for a transfer/electronic billpay.    

 

Below partial quotes from TW Terms of Agreement

Quote

 

Holding A Balance in your Borderless Account

TransferWise is not a bank and your Borderless Account is not a bank account.  The specified bank account details that we provide to you in order for you to receive funds from third parties are for accounts held by TransferWise and its affiliates (and we will credit your Borderless Account, which is held by us, upon receipt of such funds), and are not for a bank account held by you. Value held as a balance in your Borderless Account represents an unsecured claim against TransferWise and is not insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) or any other deposit protection scheme. TransferWise invests balances held by its customers in permissible investments in accordance with state money transmitter laws. TransferWise owns the interest or other earnings on these investments, if any. TransferWise does not use balances held by its customers for operating expenses or other corporate purposes and will not voluntarily make such funds available to its creditors in the event of bankruptcy. For further information on how we look after your money, please visit our Frequently Asked Questions page.

 

 

 

Quote

 

TransferWise is a payment service provider

Our relationship with you under this Customer Agreement with you is as a payment service provider, and TransferWise is an independent contractor for all purposes.  TransferWise is not your agent or trustee.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, bubba1 said:

What's the advantage of using the domestic wire to Bangkok Bank over transferwise?

@TallGuyJohninBKK

@Pib

Just cuts a middle man out (Transferwise), could put more baht in your Bkk Bk acct at least cost to you (you need to cost out the exchange rates and fees of both TW and your bank), could be faster, etc.