Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[inThailand]

Based on 101 pages and going strong, this seems to indicate a vast majority use the income method vs the deposited method. 85% vs 15% respectively?

 

So 85% of the expat community have a problem and say 80% of these will not be here this time next year? Wow? 

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, inThailand said:

Based on 101 pages and going strong, this seems to indicate a vast majority use the income method vs the deposited method. 85% vs 15% respectively?

 

So 85% of the expat community have a problem and say 80% of these will not be here this time next year? Wow? 

Not all expats are on Thaivisa and many who are won't post or will post very little if they aren't affected. We don't know what will happen next year, slowly but surely all IO's will be aware of the situation and if there is no directive from TI (unlikely IMO) then we will be at the mercy of the different IO's individual decisions, some will be co-operative and understanding, eg. look at your past record and monthly sums coming into a Thai bank account and others will not. Speculation and panic doesn't help, I personally am optimistic that a solution will be found in the coming months.

[sambum]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Not all expats are on Thaivisa and many who are won't post or will post very little if they aren't affected. We don't know what will happen next year, slowly but surely all IO's will be aware of the situation and if there is no directive from TI (unlikely IMO) then we will be at the mercy of the different IO's individual decisions, some will be co-operative and understanding, eg. look at your past record and monthly sums coming into a Thai bank account and others will not. Speculation and panic doesn't help, I personally am optimistic that a solution will be found in the coming months.

"we will be at the mercy of the different IO's individual decisions"

 

Have been, are, and ever shall be - Amen

[sambum]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Not all expats are on Thaivisa and many who are won't post or will post very little if they aren't affected. We don't know what will happen next year, slowly but surely all IO's will be aware of the situation and if there is no directive from TI (unlikely IMO) then we will be at the mercy of the different IO's individual decisions, some will be co-operative and understanding, eg. look at your past record and monthly sums coming into a Thai bank account and others will not. Speculation and panic doesn't help, I personally am optimistic that a solution will be found in the coming months.

I am also hopeful that a solution will be found in the following months, and hope that that solution will be applied across the board by all Immigration Officers so that all offices are working to the same rules. 

[superal]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Not all expats are on Thaivisa and many who are won't post or will post very little if they aren't affected. We don't know what will happen next year, slowly but surely all IO's will be aware of the situation and if there is no directive from TI (unlikely IMO) then we will be at the mercy of the different IO's individual decisions, some will be co-operative and understanding, eg. look at your past record and monthly sums coming into a Thai bank account and others will not. Speculation and panic doesn't help, I personally am optimistic that a solution will be found in the coming months.

I wish I could share your optimism but I cannot as there is no reasoning for them to take any action , other than to increase their own gains .  When the challenge to embassies on income endorsement was made by the T.I. do you not think that they thought the whole scenario through ? Why was there not a complete blanket action on all embassies ? Maybe a selection of the richest pickings ?  Maybe part of the latest drive on expulsion of over stayers and low income retirees ?

What to me is mystifying is that liquid assets are not taken into account where for example an unmarried expat owns his condo ( worth maybe 7 million baht ) and happily lives on say 50k baht a month which disqualifies him from the income based extension .

It would be gratifying if a statement were given from the effected embassies informing their countrymen of any further proposals . 

 

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, superal said:

I wish I could share your optimism but I cannot as there is no reasoning for them to take any action , other than to increase their own gains .  When the challenge to embassies on income endorsement was made by the T.I. do you not think that they thought the whole scenario through ? Why was there not a complete blanket action on all embassies ? Maybe a selection of the richest pickings ?  Maybe part of the latest drive on expulsion of over stayers and low income retirees ?

What to me is mystifying is that liquid assets are not taken into account where for example an unmarried expat owns his condo ( worth maybe 7 million baht ) and happily lives on say 50k baht a month which disqualifies him from the income based extension .

It would be gratifying if a statement were given from the effected embassies informing their countrymen of any further proposals . 

 

Was a challenge made to specific embassies or all embassies ? Was a challenge made at all ? We don't know that, did the 4 embassies just get precious about the word 'verify' when in fact it may not have carried the same weight in this instance for Thais as for falangs ? What we don't know could fill a swimming pool.

[Kwasaki]

19 hours ago, sambum said:

"we will be at the mercy of the different IO's individual decisions"

 

Have been, are, and ever shall be - Amen

You can report immigration office just the same as a police station to the army man in charge if they do not follow the correct directive.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

You can report immigration office just the same as a police station to the army man in charge if they do not follow the correct directive.

Thanks, but I value my freedom, and I like the way I'm living now!

[Kwasaki]

40 minutes ago, sambum said:

Thanks, but I value my freedom, and I like the way I'm living now!

What's that got to do with being wrongly treated in Thailand. 

[vogie]

Anybody got the address for downloading the income letter for proof of funds (British Embassy) please.

[Bournville]

Geeeeeeeez. 1503 replies to this topic. Somebody give me the gist. 

[sambum]

49 minutes ago, Bournville said:

Geeeeeeeez. 1503 replies to this topic. Somebody give me the gist. 

Now 1516 replies up to press! For the gist you could try reading one or two, but as you have obviously been stunned into immobility:-

 

No further Proof of Income letters will be issued by 4 major Embassies in support of an application to Thai Immigration for an annual extension to visa (Retirement Visa) after January 2019 as they say they can not verify the financial information given in order for them to issue the said letter. Hence, many ex pat pensioners living here are a bit concerned, as the only alternative at present is to have a large sum of money sitting in a Thai bank (800,000 baht in the case of a single person, 400,000 baht if you are married to a Thai national) and left untouched for 3 months, or prove that they have 65,000 baht (on average) going into a Thai bank every month (40,000 baht if married to a Thai national).

 

Hence, 1516 posts and counting - all clear now? (I wish!) 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by sambum

[sambum]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

What's that got to do with being wrongly treated in Thailand. 

Do you really need it spelled out for you?

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Anybody got the address for downloading the income letter for proof of funds (British Embassy) please.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

 

Need to get your application in before 12th December

 

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, sambum said:

Do you really need it spelled out for you?

Yes stop poncing about and tell me or you afraid immigration Thailand is watching you on TV.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

Anybody got the address for downloading the income letter for proof of funds (British Embassy) please.

I just sent you a PM.

[sambum]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Yes stop poncing about and tell me or you afraid immigration Thailand is watching you on TV.

Not quite but near enough!

 

You should know that emails can be traced and that is the only way that I can see for a complaint to be registered and acknowledged. Do you expect me to send a letter of complaint to the Chief of Immigration with a stamped and addressed return envelope?

 

You should also be aware that it is still a criminal offence to criticise the Government, and Thai Immigration is a part of that Government :-

"May 15, 2018 - Bangkok Post editor 'forced to step down' over critical coverage of Thai military juntagovernment."

 

And from Apr 13 2017:-

"The military-run government of Thailand has announced a ban on all online interaction with three of its most prominent overseas critics. A letter from the digital economy and society ministry warned citizens that engaging on the internet with the Thai academics Somsak Jeamteerasakul and Pavin Chachavalpongpun as well as the journalist Andrew MacGregor Marshall could violate the law."

 

And I have been in an Immigration Office when someone asked for an Extension of Stay 2 weeks before it was due, and without going into all the details, the IO (Immigration Officer) concerned said " I don't care what it says in the rules - I make the rules here" and the extension was refused. 

 

So, it's all very well you saying:- 

"You can report immigration office just the same as a police station to the army man in charge if they do not follow the correct directive."

 

I have been living in Thailand for some time now, and have accepted it "warts and all" and yes, there are some things that I don't agree with about the place, but at the end of the day it is their country, and I am not about to jeopardise my future here by "sticking my neck on the block" by complaining to someone who doesn't appear to give foreigners a very high placing on his Xmas Cards list!

 

Yes, you can report them, preferably from from the comfort of your armchair in a country far, far away, but I am not prepared to risk the possible consequences of foolhardiness, and that is exactly what a traceable complaint would be from a "keyboard warrior"!

Edited November 27, 2018 by sambum

[lamyai3]

13 hours ago, Bournville said:

Geeeeeeeez. 1503 replies to this topic. Somebody give me the gist. 

One thing worth noting is that when the thread started, it was the British embassy who'd unilaterally embarked on this course of action, and the pressure was on them sharply to clarify things. 1500++ posts later this has been reduced somewhat, due to four major embassies (and counting) adopting the same position. Still no clear statement from immigration, and mostly obfuscation and heads in the sand from the embassies. 

[Kwasaki]

10 hours ago, sambum said:

You should also be aware that it is still a criminal offence to criticise the Government

I do not criticize the the present Government they have my support and you miss the point again it is this government that is clamping down on immigration officials just like the one you mention and police officials alike.  

[Kwasaki]

10 hours ago, sambum said:

You should also be aware that it is still a criminal offence to criticise the Government

I do not criticize the the present Government they have my support and you miss the point again it is this government that is clamping down on immigration officials just like the one you mention and police officials alike.  

[sambum]

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I do not criticize the the present Government they have my support and you miss the point again it is this government that is clamping down on immigration officials just like the one you mention and police officials alike.  

You needed to say it twice? ????

 

Joking apart, thank you for clarifying your position, but I stand by mine too! Have a nice day!

Edited November 28, 2018 by sambum

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

You needed to say it twice? ????

 

Joking apart, thank you for clarifying your position, but I stand by mine too! Have a nice day!

My take on it would be that he wouldn't be criticising the Thai government by complaining that one of their IO's isn't following the regulations stipulated by the government, he would be helping them. Having said that I wouldn't do it because in all likelihood nothing would come of your complaint but now you have one p1ssed off IO who wants your scalp.

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

My take on it would be that he wouldn't be criticising the Thai government by complaining that one of their IO's isn't following the regulations stipulated by the government, he would be helping them. Having said that I wouldn't do it because in all likelihood nothing would come of your complaint but now you have one p1ssed off IO who wants your scalp.

Unwise to piss them off. A lot they can do to piss you off.

 

I collected my passport today with visa extension valid for 13 months. Jut smiled sweetly, "Korb khun krap" and was very careful not to mention the war (with the embassies).

[sambum]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

My take on it would be that he wouldn't be criticising the Thai government by complaining that one of their IO's isn't following the regulations stipulated by the government, he would be helping them. Having said that I wouldn't do it because in all likelihood nothing would come of your complaint but now you have one p1ssed off IO who wants your scalp.

Actually the IO that I was referring to is no longer there, and rumours abound as to the reason, but I'm not about to add to them on here! And you are probably right in saying that nothing would come of your complaint - it might be different if there were a few dozen!

[Bill Miller]

A common theme I have seen is "Why just some embassies?", or "Why doesn't embassy A do like embassy B?"
Embassies have to conform to the laws of the nations they represent.
Good on Switzerland for changing Swiss laws a little so that official notification can be sent directly to Thai Immigration about the income of affected Swiss citizens. This has nothing to do with decisions made by the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok, but at a federal level.
The British, US, and Australian embassies are bound by their respective nation's laws and are not permitted to access a private citizen's financial data. Other nations never have provided any sort of "proof" via their embassies.

[thongplay]

Hello all,

This issue of Embassy Certification Letters is now a year old and I wonder has anyone been able to get such a letter or even a retirement visa extension since then?

 

I'm about to apply without said letter at Nakhonratchasima.

 

What are my chances?

[DPKANKAN]

20 minutes ago, thongplay said:

Hello all,

This issue of Embassy Certification Letters is now a year old and I wonder has anyone been able to get such a letter or even a retirement visa extension since then?

 

I'm about to apply without said letter at Nakhonratchasima.

 

What are my chances?

Got mine in December and renewed in March. Maximum date of 6 months ahead of renewal so you are too late now. (Assuming you are from one of the Countries whom have now stopped issuing).

[HHTel]

41 minutes ago, thongplay said:

Hello all,

This issue of Embassy Certification Letters is now a year old and I wonder has anyone been able to get such a letter or even a retirement visa extension since then?

 

I'm about to apply without said letter at Nakhonratchasima.

 

What are my chances?

There are many people who have got their extension since the withdrawal of the UK embassy letter.

Now you have to show proof of income into a Thai bank.  There are literally hundreds of posts on here with details and experiences.

[Moonlover]

59 minutes ago, thongplay said:

Hello all,

This issue of Embassy Certification Letters is now a year old and I wonder has anyone been able to get such a letter or even a retirement visa extension since then?

 

I'm about to apply without said letter at Nakhonratchasima.

 

What are my chances?

 

15 minutes ago, HHTel said:

There are many people who have got their extension since the withdrawal of the UK embassy letter.

Now you have to show proof of income into a Thai bank.  There are literally hundreds of posts on here with details and experiences.

@HHTel is quite correct there have been plenty of successful renewals, both married and retirement.

 

And as a testimonial of that, I'm one of them. I used the income method in support of my married application and received the approval just last week.

 

What are your chances @thongplay? They're as good as the income evidence that you present.

[jimn]

3 hours ago, thongplay said:

Hello all,

This issue of Embassy Certification Letters is now a year old and I wonder has anyone been able to get such a letter or even a retirement visa extension since then?

 

I'm about to apply without said letter at Nakhonratchasima.

 

What are my chances?

Unless you have been keeping 800k in a Thai bank account or have been regularly transfering 65k from abroad into your Thai bank account, I am afraid you have no chance. Best of luck