BMW 310R Poblems

[d4291797]

Advice appreciated.

 

I have just purchased a new BMW 310R from Barcelona BMW Chiang Mai.

 

Having travelled about twenty kilometers I notice an oil pool under the bike.

Thinking the dealer may have spilt oil ,on the initial fill, the area was cleaned and the bike test ridden.

 

Sadly more oil apparent.

 

OK it seems I have a leaking head gasket, this is going to involve a top end strip on a bike that is days old!

 

Now my wish is for the bike to be replaced with a new one, or money refunded.

 

BMW dealership apsolutely refuse , saying they wish to repair and return my bike.

 

Does anyone have advice re how I stand regarding refund or replacement, under the Consumer Protection act.

 

 

Cheers.

 

 

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[richard_smith237]

Are you sure its the head Gasket?

 

I have the G310R's sister, the G310GS.... the Oil Filter is in an incredibly vulnerable position and it would be easy for it to get a knock... it could be something that simple. 

 

If it is something such as head-gasket failing, then its only a gasket - and a replacement should be simple enough for the BMW Mechanics... I'm not sure this is sufficient reason for a complete machine swap - this is what the Warranty is for. 

 

In your shoes I too would be upset and of course, the bike replacement is the easy solution (for us - the customer). See how they get on with the Fix, the issue may be resolved by this time next week.... However, should the issue not be resolved I'd also be following up with BMW. Unfortunately, I can't help with this (with regards to contacts), but can advise that pressure from a 'head office' (in this case manufacture) can move mountains... 

 

I had a car with problems and was not satisfied with the response, I contacted the Manufacture in the UK (the car was a UK brand - Jaguar / Landrover) who responded positively, suddenly the issues I was facing disappeared and all efforts were made to resolve the issues to my satisfaction. 

[Briggsy]

I would support Richard's post above.....

 

and stress a dealership is not BMW. I know this sounds obvious but a dealership has very little incentive to refund you and not much more incentive to be concerned about the wider issue with the model or the brand or the PDI or a manufacturing problem. They are a dealership. They get a profit margin from each model they shift. Once they have sold the bike, it is on to the next customer.

 

So, if you do not get satisfaction from them, I would quickly escalate to BMW (not a dealership Head Office, not an importer) but BMW.

[d4291797]

Advice appreciated.
 
I have just purchased a new BMW 310R from Barcelona BMW Chiang Mai.
 
Having travelled about twenty kilometers I notice an oil pool under the bike.
Thinking the dealer may have spilt oil ,on the initial fill, the area was cleaned and the bike test ridden.
 
Sadly more oil apparent.
 
OK it seems I have a leaking head gasket, this is going to involve a top end strip on a bike that is days old!
 
Now my wish is for the bike to be replaced with a new one, or money refunded.
 
BMW dealership apsolutely refuse , saying they wish to repair and return my bike.
 
Does anyone have advice re how I stand regarding refund or replacement, under the Consumer Protection act.
 
 
Cheers.
 
 
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[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

I would support Richard's post above.....

 

and stress a dealership is not BMW. I know this sounds obvious but a dealership has very little incentive to refund you and not much more incentive to be concerned about the wider issue with the model or the brand or the PDI or a manufacturing problem. They are a dealership. They get a profit margin from each model they shift. Once they have sold the bike, it is on to the next customer.

 

So, if you do not get satisfaction from them, I would quickly escalate to BMW (not a dealership Head Office, not an importer) but BMW.

 

BMW has a large research and a small manufacturing plant just outside of Rayong, for cars and motorcycles. There's a German motor cycles senior manager at this site and several senior German bike design experts.

 

About 15 months ago I went to the site for a very different reason, I'm not a bike person, but while there I met the manager / motor cycle guys and they are passionate. Perhaps they would be interested to hear about your situation but what they could do I have no idea.

 

Sorry I don't have any records of names.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by scorecard

[d4291797]

Guys I have contacted Motorad Bangkok re this issue, at this time I am getting no further response from them.
This is very very disappointing support for this brand!

Yes it seems oil is weeping from the rear of the cylinder head, obviously left the factory like this.

At this time no one seems to want to be accountable, in as much for an issue of this gravity, with a brand new bike, the only proper solution is to offer replacement.
Different if the bike was two years old, but 1 day!!!


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[d4291797]

Guys I have contacted Motorad Bangkok re this issue, at this time I am getting no further response from them.

Yes it seems oil is weeping from the rear of the cylinder head, it obviously left the factory like this.

This is so disappointing for a brand new bike, the only proper solution is to offer replacement, as some wear and tear is bound to take place ,when a top end strip is embarked on.
Different if the bike was two years old, but 1 day!!!

I have to say , for a short rider, this bike is truly amazing.

Frustrating ,that it will be a wee while before I can enjoy it.


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[papa al]

year after year

BMW rated least reliable brand of moto

worldwide

[eisfeld]

The 310 series of BMW has been plagued with serious manufacturing issues even before release and was delayed for months. Then I think they had one or two recalls shortly after. 310cc singles branded BMW but made by an indian company for the price of a 470 twin Honda. Not a very enticing offering to me imho.

 

That being said, I had pretty much the same situation with my Ducati. Oil spill due to a nut coming loose within the first 24h. Dealer tried to clean it but did a horrible job, bike was still full of oil in many places. Ducati Thailand offered me a 30k voucher for the hassle. I said I'd rather have a new bike. Who knows what happened to the inside of the engine when it was running on low oil. There was lots of smoke. They would have had to strip down the bike completely and ensure all engine components are still up to spec. I told them I don't trust the bike as obviously someone at QA didn't do their job and checked the bike before it left the factory and that this was a safety hazard. The insurance guy who came even said it was a miracle I didn't crash due to the oil leaking onto the tire and rendering the rear break unusable. The dealer relayed that to Ducati Thailand and eventually they gave me a new bike.

 

An oil leak can be a serious issue for an engine. It can be easily damaged if running low on oil. And oil spilling around on the bike can be a big safety hazard. So IF they can prove to you (by stripping the bike into components) that everything is up to spec after running with low oil AND them ensuring that no oil is anywhere left where it shouldn't (e.g. breaks), then maybe you could accept that. Plus something for your hassles of course.

 

The dealer wont want to do all that work, it would take several days for a mechanic. And I would bet that they are not even capable of performing the engine check. They would likely just top up the oil, give it a wash, connect it to the computer and see if it runs OK.

 

I think you have a reasonable chance to get a new bike although I have no experience with BMW in Thailand. Your bike clearly also failed to have a proper QA check done and who knows what else they missed? Oh and what Ducati also offered me was an extended warranty, you should maybe ask for that as well if you can't get a new bike in the end. BMW Germany is known for doing the right thing in cases like this one, the Thai dealers not so much. So if you don't get an acceptable solution, escalate it up until it reaches someone from BMW proper. Once that happens, you will see the dealer changing their mind quickly. Plenty of dealerships in Thailand have lost their license in the past. Barcelona BMW in Phuket was closed a few years ago.

 

Good luck!

Edited December 1, 2018 by eisfeld

[d4291797]

The 310 series of BMW has been plagued with serious manufacturing issues even before release and was delayed for months. Then I think they had one or two recalls shortly after. 310cc singles branded BMW but made by an indian company for the price of a 470 twin Honda. Not a very enticing offering to me imho.
 
That being said, I had pretty much the same situation with my Ducati. Oil spill due to a nut coming loose within the first 24h. Dealer tried to clean it but did a horrible job, bike was still full of oil in many places. Ducati Thailand offered me a 30k voucher for the hassle. I said I'd rather have a new bike. Who knows what happened to the inside of the engine when it was running on low oil. There was lots of smoke. They would have had to strip down the bike completely and ensure all engine components are still up to spec. I told them I don't trust the bike as obviously someone at QA didn't do their job and checked the bike before it left the factory and that this was a safety hazard. The insurance guy who came even said it was a miracle I didn't crash due to the oil leaking onto the tire and rendering the rear break unusable. The dealer relayed that to Ducati Thailand and eventually they gave me a new bike.
 
An oil leak can be a serious issue for an engine. It can be easily damaged if running low on oil. And oil spilling around on the bike can be a big safety hazard. So IF they can prove to you (by stripping the bike into components) that everything is up to spec after running with low oil AND them ensuring that no oil is anywhere left where it shouldn't (e.g. breaks), then maybe you could accept that. Plus something for your hassles of course.
 
The dealer wont want to do all that work, it would take several days for a mechanic. And I would bet that they are not even capable of performing the engine check. They would likely just top up the oil, give it a wash, connect it to the computer and see if it runs OK.
 
I think you have a reasonable chance to get a new bike although I have no experience with BMW in Thailand. Your bike clearly also failed to have a proper QA check done and who knows what else they missed? Oh and what Ducati also offered me was an extended warranty, you should maybe ask for that as well if you can't get a new bike in the end. BMW Germany is known for doing the right thing in cases like this one, the Thai dealers not so much. So if you don't get an acceptable solution, escalate it up until it reaches someone from BMW proper. Once that happens, you will see the dealer changing their mind quickly. Plenty of dealerships in Thailand have lost their license in the past. Barcelona BMW in Phuket was closed a few years ago.
 
Good luck!

Guys I appreciate your comments.

My big concern is , the quality of the repair work will totally depend on the skill of the mechanic doing the job!

Ie , will surfaces be totally cleaned, will head bolts be torqued to manufacturers specs, will new hose clips be used to replace factory crimped ones etc etc!

At this time, until the top end is stripped a cracked head/ porous head can not be ruled out!

We are very frustrated that the manager Barcelona BMW ignores our emails.
No further comment from Motorrad BMW Bangkok.

It seems no one seems to give a stuff regarding customer service.

Is this a good way to conduct business, and get repeat custom, I think not!

To be fair, word of mouth has it, that the dealership will give an extended warranty on the work.

Again , this is a truly awesome bike for a vertically challenged person.

However we simply do not expect to be treated like this, by a supposedly premium brand like BMW.

[canthai55]

Forget BMW Thailand. Go to BMW Germany.

They know what social media is ... need I say more.

Take lots of pics, document every bike fault as to date and time, document every action - or lack of - by each party every step of the way.

Then - if and when push comes to shove - you will have a detailed record of events to publish, with a history to back it up.

BMW CNX have had a terrible record for a long time.

[Badrabbit]

Going by how much mechanics wack in as much air into tires as possible I wouldn't trust any of them, most of the mechanics here are not trained and are not bothered!

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[fruitman]

Make pictures and send them to BMW germany....

 

I went inside the BMW-dealer in bkk last week to buy one but the sales couldn't speak english so i left....thank god for that because i would be furious if this happened to me.

[Badrabbit]

Good luck mate, worst country to own an expensive car or bike, who can you trust?

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[d4291797]

Forget BMW Thailand. Go to BMW Germany.
They know what social media is ... need I say more.
Take lots of pics, document every bike fault as to date and time, document every action - or lack of - by each party every step of the way.
Then - if and when push comes to shove - you will have a detailed record of events to publish, with a history to back it up.
BMW CNX have had a terrible record for a long time.

Cheers canthai55, I agree I have to take this up with customer services BMW Germany.

Does anyone have contact info.
I have met a brick wall here.

Many thanks.


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[d4291797]

Forget BMW Thailand. Go to BMW Germany.
They know what social media is ... need I say more.
Take lots of pics, document every bike fault as to date and time, document every action - or lack of - by each party every step of the way.
Then - if and when push comes to shove - you will have a detailed record of events to publish, with a history to back it up.
BMW CNX have had a terrible record for a long time.

Cheers canthai55, I agree I have to take this up with customer services BMW Germany.

Does anyone have contact info.
I have met a brick wall here.

Many thanks.


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[canthai55]

https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/info/contact.html

[jackdd]

12 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/info/contact.html

Maybe better contact BMW Germany:

https://www.bmw-motorrad.de/de/public-pool/content-pool/privacy/privacy-subpage-weblink-c.html

E-Mail: [email protected]

[d4291797]

Forget BMW Thailand. Go to BMW Germany.
They know what social media is ... need I say more.
Take lots of pics, document every bike fault as to date and time, document every action - or lack of - by each party every step of the way.
Then - if and when push comes to shove - you will have a detailed record of events to publish, with a history to back it up.
BMW CNX have had a terrible record for a long time.

Cheers canthai55, I agree I have to take this up with customer services BMW Germany.

Does anyone have contact info.
I have met a brick wall here.

Many thanks.


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[soalbundy]

42 minutes ago, d4291797 said:

 

Cheers canthai55, I agree I have to take this up with customer services BMW Germany.

Does anyone have contact info.
I have met a brick wall here.

Many thanks.


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Coogle is your friend, it's years since I worked for them but I believe the bikes are made in Berlin, not Munich.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Coogle is your friend, it's years since I worked for them but I believe the bikes are made in Berlin, not Munich.

That particular model (310r) is made in India. 

[thaiguzzi]

2 hours ago, fruitman said:

Make pictures and send them to BMW germany....

 

I went inside the BMW-dealer in bkk last week to buy one but the sales couldn't speak english so i left....thank god for that because i would be furious if this happened to me.

Er, sorry to blow your conceptions of which country we are in, but this is actually, er, Thailand.

I don't see on any memorandum for employees of motorcycle dealerships, that staff have to speak English to get a job.

If anything, being a BMW dealership, i'd say maybe management & higher echelons of tech staff would learn German before English.

Jeez.

And here's another thing, i know it's not your God given right to expect all Thais to speak English so that they can all understand you, but hey, here's an idea, how about learning the Thai language............

End of rant...

9 hours ago, eisfeld said:

The 310 series of BMW has been plagued with serious manufacturing issues even before release and was delayed for months. Then I think they had one or two recalls shortly after. 310cc singles branded BMW but made by an indian company

Concur.

And previous serious problems with the parallel twin engines made by a Chinese company.

And initial engine problems with the latest GS850 twin motors made in China.

And the forks just collapsing and in some cases, snapping clean off on the big GS boxers...

11 hours ago, papa al said:

year after year

BMW rated least reliable brand of moto

worldwide

Concur.

See above.

Still, a great badge though, hey? ????

They stopped being great high quality bikes when they stopped making airheads in the 90's.

Back then, late 50's to the mid 90's, nobody made a higher quality motorcycle.

Back then they only had two factories, in Berlin & Munich.

Since then market share has expanded i don't know, 10-20 fold, but quality has suffered and they ain't the same brand on a tall pedestal they once were.

[d4291797]

Maybe better contact BMW Germany:
https://www.bmw-motorrad.de/de/public-pool/content-pool/privacy/privacy-subpage-weblink-c.html
E-Mail: [email protected]

Many thanks jackdd


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[d4291797]

Many thanks jackdd


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Thank you for your input Thaiguzzi
but actually the subject in question is BMW customer service.

For your information, Motorrad BMW have our contact details ,both in Thai and English , same with Barcelona BMW.

So there should be no confusion.

I would like to think the point of a forum like this is to be mutaly supportive.


For info I have contact info for BMW Motorrad De.

Appreciate everyone’s positive inputs.


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[thaiguzzi]

4 minutes ago, d4291797 said:

Thank you for your input Thaiguzzi
but actually the subject in question is BMW customer service.

 

4 minutes ago, d4291797 said:

I would like to think the point of a forum like this is to be mutaly supportive.

Sorry, i went into a little rant about the usual "can't speak English, so i'm not buying stuff off them" comment.

 

Then i got way laid (and reminded) by the multitude of problems that modern BMW motorcycles have had, yours just a micro example amongst hundreds, nay thousands of examples.

 

I do humbly apologize for butting in on your thread on BMW "customer service" and apologize profusely.

On bended knees.

 

Hopefully, you reach a satisfactory conclusion and find that BMW stop sticking it to you in the rear.......

[eisfeld]

I've recently seen an interview with a Motorrad manager in german (responsible for R&D?) where they actually acknowledged the quality issue in past years and said they had made big improvements in the past years to address those. He was confident that they made a big change but what else should he say ????

 

The partnership with the indians on the 310 bikes has done them no favor there. It shows they still have a long way to go in terms of QA and imho they should have never outsourced these things. They have enough issues with their inhouse made stuff and outsourcing surely doesn't improve things unless they go to Japan :P. It dilutes and hurts their own brand and for what? I can't see them raking in the cash with those bikes. I feel there's quite some push inside BMW to squeeze even more profits (see new S1000RR where getting the nicer color requires buying a $4k option with carbon wheels) but now's the time they should instead invest heavily in quality. They are already on a very good track in terms of design, performance, features.

 

The big reason why I don't give up hope with BMW is that their head office really seems to realize and acknowledge most issues and work to eventually fix them. They are usually covering issues for customers in Germany even after warranty expired. They are not asshats on high horses.

 

Maybe one day when bikes are built virtually completely by robots we'll have less quality variation because as long as humans are assembling the parts and checking them, there will be mistakes. The bolts, nuts, gaskets etc that BMW uses are not fundamentally different than the ones that Honda uses. The difference is in the production process.

[eisfeld]

13 hours ago, papa al said:

year after year

BMW rated least reliable brand of moto

worldwide

 

I agree they most likely are not on Japanese reliability levels but on the other hand the reports that I've seen on this subject (Consumer Reports poll and then everyone just re-states it) were pretty questionable. They threw in super low tech cruisers and scooters with the most advanced supersport bikes. It's impossible to make the latter as reliable as the former. And the things they threw together are just not comparable apart from "they are all engines with two wheels". I'd love to see a comparison between bikes in the same category or even better the raw data. I've only seen the summaries from the Consumer Reports poll as the full one requires a membership.

[d4291797]

Sorry, i went into a little rant about the usual "can't speak English, so i'm not buying stuff off them" comment.
 
Then i got way laid (and reminded) by the multitude of problems that modern BMW motorcycles have had, yours just a micro example amongst hundreds, nay thousands of examples.
 
I do humbly apologize for butting in on your thread on BMW "customer service" and apologize profusely.
On bended knees.
 
Hopefully, you reach a satisfactory conclusion and find that BMW stop sticking it to you in the rear.......

No worries Thaiguzzi!
Your kind words appreciated.

Look we’re are all here to enjoy your lovely country ,and fantastic touring roads up north.

But I will add, that if I has had a large motorcycle dealership, that let’s be honest , sells bikes to numerous farangs.

I would not want to loose customers, because at least one staff member can not speak English.

We all want businesses to grow and prosper!

Have a great day.




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[d4291797]

Sorry, i went into a little rant about the usual "can't speak English, so i'm not buying stuff off them" comment.
 
Then i got way laid (and reminded) by the multitude of problems that modern BMW motorcycles have had, yours just a micro example amongst hundreds, nay thousands of examples.
 
I do humbly apologize for butting in on your thread on BMW "customer service" and apologize profusely.
On bended knees.
 
Hopefully, you reach a satisfactory conclusion and find that BMW stop sticking it to you in the rear.......

No worries Thaiguzzi!
Your kind words appreciated.

Look we’re are all here to enjoy your lovely country ,and fantastic touring roads up north.

But I will add, that if I has had a large motorcycle dealership, that let’s be honest , sells bikes to numerous farangs.

I would not want to loose customers, because at least one staff member can not speak English.

We all want businesses to grow and prosper!

Have a great day.




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[d4291797]

Sorry, i went into a little rant about the usual "can't speak English, so i'm not buying stuff off them" comment.
 
Then i got way laid (and reminded) by the multitude of problems that modern BMW motorcycles have had, yours just a micro example amongst hundreds, nay thousands of examples.
 
I do humbly apologize for butting in on your thread on BMW "customer service" and apologize profusely.
On bended knees.
 
Hopefully, you reach a satisfactory conclusion and find that BMW stop sticking it to you in the rear.......

No worries Thaiguzzi!
Your kind words appreciated.

Look we’re are all here to enjoy your lovely country ,and fantastic touring roads up north.

But I will add, that if I has had a large motorcycle dealership, that let’s be honest , sells bikes to numerous farangs.

I would not want to loose customers, because at least one staff member can not speak English.

We all want businesses to grow and prosper!

Have a great day.




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