Chiang Mai in crisis: Foreigners give their verdict "terrible and it smells"

[Berkshire]

10 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Huh,  bit  of a difference between wildfires and blatant  crop burning isn't  there.

You took my comments completely out of context and twisted the meaning.  Rather lame and deceitful of you. 

[miamiman123]

Fix the baht not the beach. Ha! 

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmmm..... maybe someone should do do something to stop the smog?

[bluejets]

Do they have any idea when it might start to clear....??

[Vacuum]

14 minutes ago, khunpa said:

And the problem is, that we will see not only foreigners leave CM, but also many of the well-educated Thais. Nobody "smart" want to risk and ruin their lives living in smoke.

Personally, I don't see any problem with that. And regarding "smart", if the 'non smart' non educated people (who in fact have the same IQ as "well-educated" apart the lack of a paper that confirmes they have attended a school) had money to leave the the "smoke", they probably would.

[shady86]

I travels to CM regularly and feels for them. Air there are so much fresher than in BKK at good times. 

[khunpa]

1 minute ago, Vacuum said:

Personally, I don't see any problem with that. And regarding "smart", if the 'non smart' non educated people (who in fact have the same IQ as "well-educated" apart the lack of a paper that confirmes they have attended a school) had money to leave the the "smoke", they probably would.

My point is that there is a big risk of business taking a huge hit in CM, as the Thais who can afford it will move away.

[Benmart]

4 hours ago, PhilippBKK said:

It's not Thailand's faul!

All the smoke comes from Burma, because they are bad people.

At least I was told so yesterday by a Thai.....????

Denile and blaming foreigners seems to go hand in hand with many, from Hi-So to Lo-So.

[ianf]

4 hours ago, PhilippBKK said:

It's not Thailand's faul!

All the smoke comes from Burma, because they are bad people.

At least I was told so yesterday by a Thai.....????

How many times have I been told this? Nothing like diverting blame away from Thais themselves. As far as I know there are no Burmese in the hills between Lampang and Chiang Mai: massive fires there! I don't think it is Burmese that orders the burning of roadside verges (even burning NO BURNING posters!) along with all the plastic rubbish  deposited there. That's throwing a lot of poisonous toxins into the air and is carried out by local government workers. Its not the Burmese that run the 700 year stadium's incinerator in which plastics are burned at less than 1000 degrees releasing even more toxins into the air (there are no scrubbers in their stack!). Sorry Thailand: It's the Thais doing this so get real and do something about it.

Also we had great Green demonstrations over the intrusion of government building work into the Doi Suthep forest. Isn't it about time that everyone in Chiang Mai  marched to the City Hall and demand action. Oh! Just remembered. Thais rarely question authority. So this poisoning of the people here will continue until one morning nobody wakes up. All poisoned in their beds. OMG!

[Chicken George]

Upto three more months of this . This next three months has been forecast as the hottest on record. The El Nino effect. Get out of dodge.

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Chicken George

[khunpa]

5 minutes ago, ianf said:

How many times have I been told this? Nothing like diverting blame away from Thais themselves. As far as I know there are no Burmese in the hills between Lampang and Chiang Mai: massive fires there! I don't think it is Burmese that orders the burning of roadside verges (even burning NO BURNING posters!) along with all the plastic rubbish  deposited there. That's throwing a lot of poisonous toxins into the air and is carried out by local government workers. Its not the Burmese that run the 700 year stadium's incinerator in which plastics are burned at less than 1000 degrees releasing even more toxins into the air (there are no scrubbers in their stack!). Sorry Thailand: It's the Thais doing this so get real and do something about it.

Also we had great Green demonstrations over the intrusion of government building work into the Doi Suthep forest. Isn't it about time that everyone in Chiang Mai  marched to the City Hall and demand action. Oh! Just remembered. Thais rarely question authority. So this poisoning of the people here will continue until one morning nobody wakes up. All poisoned in their beds. OMG!

 

You are right. The biggest problem is that Thais in general do not do anything. You will never see a huge demonstration against the bad air. Like when the PM came, only a few people turned up to demonstrate.

 

If you want a demonstration through town, you first need to create a food lane from the starting point to the end destination. And you have to annonce it as "a party". Or you will have nobody turn up. Bring food and you will see people turn up.

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by khunpa

[ianf]

3 hours ago, Berkshire said:

?????   People in China and India have been dealing with crappy air for years and they don't "protest and destroy government buildings."  Heck, San Francisco had to deal with some really crappy air recently after the wildfires.  Ditto Singapore.  Why would you guys make-up such ridiculous comments? 

Not a ridiculous comment at all Berks. People power could stop this because it is unavoidable. Its the lack of policing, lack of common sense and pure selfishness that has led to this situation. Mass protests by people who care may go someway to waking the authorities and forcing their hand on this issue. People power can and does win!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Not sure what the point of this comment is.  Every Thai I know hates the crappy air as much as the farangs. 

 

Especially right after they've set fire to their local forest or croplands....

 

[Billpro785]

It is easy, just move back to the UK, and or don't come. 

[dcsw53]

4 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Don't cry
Don't raise your eye
It's only toxic wasteland

Sally take my hand
We'll travel south cross land
Put out the fire
And don't look past my shoulder
The exodus is here
The happy ones are near
Let's get together, before we get much older

toxic wasteland
It's only toxic wasteland
toxic wasteland
Oh yeah, toxic wasteland
They're all wasted!

 

 

Who said that !   ????????

[johnmcc6]

Short of a large fleet of water bombers and permission from each country to use them NOTHING will make things better. How many bombers could you get for the price of one submarine? Will all be over in a couple of weeks. They will then have another year to form a few committees gas bag and moan  and ,as in all the years past, accomplish nothing.

[mberbae]

Until the locals take to the streets to demand ACTION ,

nothing will change. Remember last year when the

Governor of CM did NOT want people to wear masks

because it was BAD for the image of Chiang Mai ? !

[Berkshire]

4 minutes ago, ianf said:

Not a ridiculous comment at all Berks. People power could stop this because it is unavoidable. Its the lack of policing, lack of common sense and pure selfishness that has led to this situation. Mass protests by people who care may go someway to waking the authorities and forcing their hand on this issue. People power can and does win!

I hate this pollution crap as much as the next guy.  My immediate reaction is to arrest these bozos doing the burning.  And the landowners.  But is that practical/possible?  And more importantly, will it even fix the problem?  I look at the Airvisual map every day and there's massive air pollution across the border in Myanmar and Laos.  Is that where it's coming from?  Partially I suppose.  Anyways, yes, stop the burning would be a good start.  But many on this board thinks that any random Thai on the street can stop it if they wanted to....which makes no sense. 

[tlandtday]

4 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Don't cry
Don't raise your eye
It's only toxic wasteland

Sally take my hand
We'll travel south cross land
Put out the fire
And don't look past my shoulder
The exodus is here
The happy ones are near
Let's get together, before we get much older

toxic wasteland
It's only toxic wasteland
toxic wasteland
Oh yeah, toxic wasteland
They're all wasted!

 

 

We'll I'm standing by a river but the water doesn't flow
It boils with every poison you can think of.
Then I'm underneath the streetlights
But the light of joy I know
Scared beyond belief way down in the shadows.
And the perverted fear of violence chokes a smile on every face
And common sense is ringing out the bells.
This ain't no technological breakdown
Oh no, this is the road to hell.

[meerhof]

12 minutes ago, Billpro785 said:

It is easy, just move back to the UK, and or don't come. 

Silly remark!

[White Christmas13]

7 minutes ago, meerhof said:

Silly remark!

not only silly but stupid as well

[Guderian]

4 hours ago, PhilippBKK said:

It's not Thailand's faul!

All the smoke comes from Burma, because they are bad people.

At least I was told so yesterday by a Thai.....????

Of course, the maps show this clearly, lol...

 

[johng50]

who cares let PM chaCha or better still Big Joke come to australia and arrest me if i say something bad about Thailand

 

[khunpa]

7 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I hate this pollution crap as much as the next guy.  My immediate reaction is to arrest these bozos doing the burning.  And the landowners.  But is that practical/possible?  And more importantly, will it even fix the problem?  I look at the Airvisual map every day and there's massive air pollution across the border in Myanmar and Laos.  Is that where it's coming from?  Partially I suppose.  Anyways, yes, stop the burning would be a good start.  But many on this board thinks that any random Thai on the street can stop it if they wanted to....which makes no sense. 

 

Farmers need proper alternatives to stop burning. Government needs law enforcers to actually do their job. Law enforcers needs resources and top people that are not corrupt. 

 

There is a reason why it is so bad now. Simply too many challenges to overcome. 

 

[natway09]

The authorities banned fires but stupidly go off duty at 5pm so then the farmers set fire to their stubble. A blind man can see the fires but not the authorities who are sleeping.

That unfortunately coupled with police seeing the opportunity to "pad the nest"

results in nothing happening ?

How many have been prosecuted for having fires in the North?

[Shaunduhpostman]

The reporter's and the newspaper's sense of what the problem with air is in the north, that it smells bad, is the complaint you usually hear from Thais. I am not trying to Thai bash here but just give some constructive criticism and insight.

 

To me, every time I hear that, that "oh the air smells so bad,"  just says to me, right there, that that particularly common comment is an indcator of much of the whole problem, the sense that it is as trivial as air simply smelling bad for a few minutes. Yes, it is cultural, Thai culture has a way of being very vocal about bad smelling people and klongs, etc. but to me that seems to be the problem, the tendency to see air pollution as just something that is an annoyance and not much else. We don't put sanctions on people and fine people for farting, so why should we we punish people for burning things and particularly when there is no garbage collection service or any public dumps or recycling so that garbage has to be burned among all the other things that are burned and which emit smoke. You can hardly blame people for burning down entire forests if burning things is A-OK and by necessity has to be as there is no support for farmers to deal with their crops otherwise and no alternative for many rural people whom the Thai governments will not provide waste collection or even dumping sites. So, seems that the problem has a lot to do with lack of public awareness about what air pollution and smoke does, that It is not an issue that is solved by putting a bunch of chemical air refresheners that smell like artificial cherry and grape up all over town or running some mollases spraying drones a few times a year. That burning garbage is not a solution to waste disposal. Last year the Prime Minister was out there saying that businesses will now have to get rid of their own waste on site which seems to be a way of saying, burn your garbage don't expect govt services to come and collect it.

 

Just for starters, as to what exactly it means when we say air pollution is unhealthy, WHO says that for every 10 point notch up in air quality index you have a 1-3% (or thereabouts) death rate increase from cancer and heart disease. So at aqi 150 where much of say Isaan is much of the year, 15% of the people will die from air pollution and countless others will suffer serious impairment to their life quality, cancer, chronic life long respiratory illness. So that's 300,000 people in this area alone and lets shave off 100,000 because air pollution is not at a high enough level everyday. Though in some areas of Isaan, which are not monitored the smoke is thick and chokingly bad for several hours when all the people burn trash and others stuff in unison as they are won't to do. 

 

Even diabetes risk increase and hormonal disorders have been been linked to smoke inhalation, not to mention that not only the lungs but the entire body is exposed to pollution via the blood stream which carries the particles throughout the body. The WHO who is rather light on health disorders because they are kept on a leash by the global industries/polluters they ultimately serve has much info with an extensive page on air pollution.

 

https://www.who.int/airpollution/en/

 

Let your English speaking Thai friends and family know about it next time you hear the "oh...smells so bad." complaint. There are many really excellent colorful posters for download with good info graphics that are very informative in quick short  sound bite style. Good for English teachers to help their Thai students become more aware and improve their English to boot.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Shaunduhpostman

[moe666]

Instead of wasteing water spraying around the moat, drive those trucks up the road and put out the fires as you come to them

[rumak]

53 minutes ago, Benmart said:

Denile and blaming foreigners seems to go hand in hand with many, from Hi-So to Lo-So.

i think Denile is in Egypt

[moe666]

1 minute ago, Shaunduhpostman said:

The reporter's and the newspaper's sense of what the problem with air is in the north, that it smells bad, is the complaint you usually hear from Thais. I am not trying to Thai bash here but just give some constructive criticism and insight.

 

To me, every time I hear that, that "oh the air smells so bad,"  just says to me, right there, that that particularly common comment is an indcator of much of the whole problem, the sense that it is as trivial as simply smelling bad. Yes, it is cultural, Thai culture has a way of being very vocal about bad smelling people and klongs, etc. but to me that seems to be the problem, the tendency to see air pollution as just something that is an annoyance and not much else. We don't put sanctions on people and fine people for farting, so why should we we punish people for burning things and particularly when there is no garbage collection service or any public dumps or recycling so that garbage has to be burned among all the other things that are burned and which emit smoke. So, seems that the problem has a lot to do with lack of public awareness about what air pollution and smoke does, that It is not an issue that is solved by putting a bunch of chemical air refresheners that smell like artificial cherry and grape up all over town or running some mollases spraying drones a few times a year.

 

WHO says that for every 10 point notch up in air quality index you have a 1-3% (or thereabouts) death rate increase from cancer and heart disease. So at aqi 150 where much of say Isaan is much of the year, 15% of the people will die from air pollution and countless others will suffer serious impairment to their life quality, cancer, chronic life long respiratory illness. So that's 300,000 people in this area alone and lets shave off 100,000 because air pollution is not at a highh enough level everyday. Even diabetes risk increase and hormonal disorders have been been linked to smoke inhalation, not to mention that not only the lungs but the entire body is exposed to pollution via the blood stream which carries the particles throughout the body. The WHO who is rather light on health disorders because they are kept on a leash by the global industries/polluters they ultimately serve has much info with an extensive page on air pollution.

 

https://www.who.int/airpollution/en/

 

Let your English speaking Thai friends and family know about it next time you here the "oh...smells so bad." complaint. There are many really excellent colorful posters for download with good info graphics that very informative in quick short  sound bite style. Good for English teachers to help their Thai students become more aware and improve their English to boot.

 

 

Do not kid yourselves the locals know what is up, just more bad goverance from their leaders. The local people are the ones that are sick, my wife, several friends, and many other Thais they just do not waste what breath complaining because they know it will do them no good.

[moontang]

I left a year ago, sold and bought on the edge of BKK....so glad I did, but it is a crying shame what has happened up there.  I am not a fan, at all, of the way the CM is operated.  It was much more tolerable, when the nightlife was good.  The same restaurants, putting ten bags of nasty garbage on the curb at 9 pm, and covered in rats by 11, every night for years, right across the street from the entrance to CMU, which I do have quite of bit of respect for..having not worked there.