Samlor hit my car - police want me to pay...

[simon43]

On Friday afternoon, I was driving home in my pick-up.  The town road had 4 lanes (2 each side) and no central reservation.  I was driving in my outside lane because I intended to turn right at the junction further ahead.

 

In the other outside lane was a large, slow-moving track, (cars were parked on their inside lane).

 

Suddenly, a samlor pulled out from behind the truck, trying to pass him.  Of course, as soon as he saw my car approaching, he tried to turn back into his lane.  However, he lost control of his vehicle and it slid across the road and into the side of my car as I was doing a sharp left to try to avoid him.  My car ended up on the pavement with extensive side panel damage on the right side.

 

The samlor driver bounced on the road and was unconscious for a few minutes, but then regained consciousness and was lucid and talking to Thai bystanders whilst waiting for the 1669 ambulance.

 

A Thai man approached me, said that he had witnessed everything, that the samlor driver was 100% at fault, and gave me his contact telephone number.

 

The ambulance arrived and took the man to hospital.  The traffic police arrived and marked the road, took photos of the scene, made a note of my contact details and left.  My insurance guy arrived promptly (I have class 1 insurance) and efficiently noted everything and is currently arranging for repair of my pick-up.

 

Now the local police have contacted me and said that I need to come to the police station to arrange to pay for the man's hospital bill and repairs to his samlor!!

 

This man was totally at fault in this accident, and the witness also said he was drunk, (I told the police this at the scene of the accident, but they refused to note these details or to breathalise the man).

 

I have no intention of paying a satang to this idiot.....

 

Any suggestions as to how to prepare for the meeting at the police station?  My intention (if compensation is asked for), is to politely say that I will sue him in court for the damage to my vehicle and inconvenience/ shock etc that I have incurred ????

 

What would you do?

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Now the local police have contacted me and said that I need to come to the police station to arrange to pay for the man's hospital bill and repairs to his samlor!!

Send the police your insurance agent's phone number and contact details.

Don't go to the police station yourself. Refuse all direct contact.

Only speak English with anyone/everyone, generally be as stupid and difficult as possible.

Edited May 29, 2019 by BritManToo

[worgeordie]

I would advise you to get car camera, if someone crashes into you

it explains everything, you even get discount from insurance co.

if you have one.

regards worgeordie

[Orton Rd]

Similar accident a few weeks back, don't sign anything let the insurance man deal with it, unfortunately he might go against you as well. I imagine the cops never even interviewed the other party, just their opinion which the law will have little bearing on. In our case I only found out long after the guy who ran into us had no insurance which may be why we got the blame. Download the land traffic act 1979, there is a good chance neither the cops or the insurance man have ever read it.

Our affair is still going on weeks later as the little shit who was driving down the wrong side of the road is claiming permanent knee damage, so yet to be fined.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Orton Rd

[simon43]

2 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

I would advise you to get car camera, if someone crashes into you

it explains everything, you even get discount from insurance co.

if you have one.

regards worgeordie

I ordered one from Lazada the next day!  But still too late for this accident...

 

BritManToo, I concur.  I have told my insurance company about their request.  It's better if they only speak with them..

[simon43]

@Orton Road, my insurance guy seems very good.  He arrived quickly after this accident and said that I needn't worry about anything - his company will take care of everything as I have class 1 insurance.

[Davo369]

Hi Simon, through my personal experience I didn't think you have any chance of Winning against a thai. I had a thai lady drive straight into me on my bike "I had right of way"  and a police man witnessed everything. The damage to her car, windscreen smashed, big dent on the bonnet. Damage to my bike not much. Damage to me, slight fracture to my spine. 37000 bht hospital bill. Insurance covered. Cut one short I was lucky to get away with  50/50

[jvs]

Simon,it seems they are out to get you,again!!

Too late for not speaking Thai but like Britman said do not go there .

Let them talk to your insurance,maybe they can work it out?

Even if you were not at fault number 1 insurance could pay for it?

Does the other guy have a license?insurance? tax?

If not he had no legal business being on the road.

If you have a lawyer let them make a call or write a letter to the police station.

Does the Thai man who saw it all have a dashcam?

Looks like the police is just after some easy money.

 

[darksidedog]

Other posters are correct. Do NOT go to the police station. They may well try throwing you in the cells to scare you into paying up. Get your insurance guy to go down there and make a counter demand to compensate them for the damage. Give him your witnesses details and let the samlor driver know if he wants to push his luck, that it will end up costing him amounts he can't afford. Many attempted shakedowns stop quite promptly when they realise you are not an idiot who will freely distribute cash.

[Vacuum]

10 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Other posters are correct. Do NOT go to the police station. They may well try throwing you in the cells to scare you into paying up. Get your insurance guy to go down there and make a counter demand to compensate them for the damage.

Exactly, isn't this why you pay big money for the insurance?

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, Davo369 said:

Hi Simon, through my personal experience I didn't think you have any chance of Winning against a thai. I had a thai lady drive straight into me on my bike "I had right of way"  and a police man witnessed everything. The damage to her car, windscreen smashed, big dent on the bonnet. Damage to my bike not much. Damage to me, slight fracture to my spine. 37000 bht hospital bill. Insurance covered. Cut one short I was lucky to get away with  50/50

My experience is different, I smashed into an old lady on a bike while driving my car, full side smash, she just pulled out in front of me without looking, I wasn't driving very fast and braked as well, so the old girl wasn't hurt, I had 80,000 Bahts worth of damage to the car. We were both taken to the police station, the police told the old dear that she was guilty and wanted to see her license, she didn't have one, the bike wasn't taxed or insured and she had no money. The officer charged her with careless driving and charged her 500 Baht (which he paid out of his pocket) she told the police that she had a daughter in Sweden and they even phoned the daughter to see if she would pay my damages (N0) so she had to sign an agreement that she would pay me 1000 Baht a month (which she never did) The officer told me to report her if she didn't pay and she would end up in prison, needless to say I didn't bother.

[Kwasaki]

54 minutes ago, simon43 said:

What would you do?

Ring up the insurance and tell them and they can go to the police station.

[bert bloggs]

Turning left some years ago m/bike tried to overtake on inside ,i had been signaling ,they tried it on with me ,no go, talk to my insurance broker you were undertaking , dont give an inch .

ps first class insurance .

[Berkshire]

46 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Other posters are correct. Do NOT go to the police station. They may well try throwing you in the cells to scare you into paying up. Get your insurance guy to go down there and make a counter demand to compensate them for the damage. Give him your witnesses details and let the samlor driver know if he wants to push his luck, that it will end up costing him amounts he can't afford. Many attempted shakedowns stop quite promptly when they realise you are not an idiot who will freely distribute cash.

Agree.  If the OP has Class 1 insurance, they should take care of everything and I mean everything.  I had a friend who was in an accident with a motorcycle and this friend was at fault.  Still, the insurance company paid for everything. 

[KhaoYai]

I agree that you should let your insurance deal with it. Meet with your insurance rep again and be clear with him what you want - no guarantees that he will not comply though. Its very likely that the Saamlor driver has nothing more than the compulsory insurance so you won't get a baht from him. You will lose out in any case if he's not insured as your insurance will pay the repairs to your vehicle but your insurance will cost more when you renew it.

 

Insurance in Thailand can seem (and often is) crazy to those used to western style insurance.  I was involved in an accident in 2011. I was on the back of a motorbike taxi in Bangkok when a car taxi pulled out on us.  We went straight into the side of the taxi, I was launched over the top, breaking the motorbike taxi rider's shoulder as I went.  There was no question of who was to blame but payment was a different proposition. The car taxi had 3rd class insurance - I kid you not. I had various injuries and was off work for 6 weeks. My total claim, including hospital bills and time off work was 1.3 million - I received 100,000 - the maximum payable under the taxi driver's insurance and I had to fight for that. I was sure that the taxi driver should have had special insurance for his line of work, at least comaparable with 1st class - apparently not. Unbelievable for someone from a western country but it seems, normal in Thailand.

 

I was advised to take the taxi driver to court and sue him, he had land somewhere. A little investigation revealed that the man rented the car along with 2 others - each doing an 8 hour shift. He came from the countryside and was working in Bangkok to support his family.  I decided to put it down to experience - compared to him I am reasonabbly well off and didn't want to make his life any harder than it already was. The real fault lies with both Thai law that allows inadequate insurance and the owners of the taxi (cartel/taxi mafia).

 

A hell of a lot of vehicles in Thailand, especially older vehicles (mainly driven by Thais), only have the compulsory insurance so if they hit you, you're insurance is likely to be paying most of the bill, regardless of blame.  It may be wrong but its how it is.

[stevenl]

44 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Turning left some years ago m/bike tried to overtake on inside ,i had been signaling ,they tried it on with me ,no go, talk to my insurance broker you were undertaking , dont give an inch .

ps first class insurance .

Undertaking is legal in Thailand.

[Briggsy]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Undertaking is legal in Thailand.

But reckless driving is not.

[stevenl]

33 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I agree that you should let your insurance deal with it. Meet with your insurance rep again and be clear with him what you want - no guarantees that he will not comply though. Its very likely that the Saamlor driver has nothing more than the compulsory insurance so you won't get a baht from him. You will lose out in any case if he's not insured as your insurance will pay the repairs to your vehicle but your insurance will cost more when you renew it. 

 

Insurance in Thailand can seem (and often is) crazy to those used to western style insurance.  I was involved in an accident in 2011. I was on the back of a motorbike taxi in Bangkok when a car taxi pulled out on us.  We went straight into the side of the taxi, I was launched over the top, breaking the motorbike taxi rider's shoulder as I went.  There was no question of who was to blame but payment was a different proposition. The car taxi had 3rd class insurance - I kid you not. I had various injuries and was off work for 6 weeks. My total claim, including hospital bills and time off work was 1.3 million - I received 100,000 - the maximum payable under the taxi driver's insurance and I had to fight for that. I was sure that the taxi driver should have had special insurance for his line of work, at least comaparable with 1st class - apparently not. Unbelievable for someone from a western country but it seems, normal in Thailand.

 

I was advised to take the taxi driver to court and sue him, he had land somewhere. A little investigation revealed that the man rented the car along with 2 others - each doing an 8 hour shift. He came from the countryside and was working in Bangkok to support his family.  I decided to put it down to experience - compared to him I am reasonabbly well off and didn't want to make his life any harder than it already was. The real fault lies with both Thai law that allows inadequate insurance and the owners of the taxi (cartel/taxi mafia).

 

A hell of a lot of vehicles in Thailand, especially older vehicles (mainly driven by Thais), only have the compulsory insurance so if they hit you, you're insurance is likely to be paying most of the bill, regardless of blame.  It may be wrong but its how it is.

" You will lose out in any case if he's not insured as your insurance will pay the repairs to your vehicle but your insurance will cost more when you renew it. "

It shouldn't cost more, since OP was not to blame. That means guilty party has to pay. If no money or insurance own insurance company will pay but recoup from guilty party. And if also then no money, that is problem for insurance company, not for OP.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Briggsy said:

But reckless driving is not.

Very true, but undertaking does not always mean reckless driving.

Edited May 29, 2019 by stevenl

[KhaoYai]

26 minutes ago, stevenl said:

If no money or insurance own insurance company will pay but recoup from guilty party. And if also then no money, that is problem for insurance company, not for OP.

That has not been my experience - I even had to pay more for my bike insurance because the previous owner had made a claim.  When talking about car insurance in Thailand, I've often heard people say "in Thailand, you insure the car, not the person" - argue though I did, the insurance company would not ignore the fact that a claim had been made on my bike so I guess that there are benefits and disadvantages to a system where the vehicle is the major consideration rather than the person.

[simon43]

Update to this - I enlisted the help of a good Thai friend who spoke with my insurance company.  He said that the police had been in contact with him to suggest that I was doing something wrong with my driving ==> a clear attempt at a shakedown.

 

On Saturday, I, the insurance agent and my Thai friend will go to the police station. together, with photos that I took at the scene which clearly show the samlor and driver right on my side of the road (ie well across the centre line), as well as the skid marks as I swerved to the left to try to avoid him.  If he hadn't hit my car, he would have continued out of control until he hit the kerb of the pavement on my side of the road!

 

 The insurance guy also doesn't want to pay anything to the samlor driver from my class 1 insurance because he also agrees that the guy was 100% at fault...  

 

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

7 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Update to this - I enlisted the help of a good Thai friend who spoke with my insurance company.  He said that the police had been in contact with him to suggest that I was doing something wrong with my driving ==> a clear attempt at a shakedown.

 

On Saturday, I, the insurance agent and my Thai friend will go to the police station. together, with photos that I took at the scene which clearly show the samlor and driver right on my side of the road (ie well across the centre line), as well as the skid marks as I swerved to the left to try to avoid him.  If he hadn't hit my car, he would have continued out of control until he hit the kerb of the pavement on my side of the road!

 

 The insurance guy also doesn't want to pay anything to the samlor driver from my class 1 insurance because he also agrees that the guy was 100% at fault...  

 

How much does the other guy want?

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, worgeordie said:

I would advise you to get car camera, if someone crashes into you

it explains everything, you even get discount from insurance co.

if you have one.

regards worgeordie

Brilliant!

 

And what exactly is the OP going to prove with that well-intentioned but fundamentally useless bit of advice IN THIS INSTANCE?

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, jvs said:

Does the other guy have a license?insurance? tax?

If not he had no legal business being on the road.

Samlors are waived from road tax and insurance requirements so good luck with that one.

 

In three separate car accidents that friends of mine have had where a drunk samlor driver was 'at fault', the police let the drunk samlor driver drive away so good luck with that one as well.

 

There's a few 'luh-mahk' farangs in Ban Nork that have a samlor so that they can go drinking for the very same reasons as stated above.

 

They are deemed as transportation for 'poor people' so they need compensated by people with more money whenever they are either incapacitated or damaged regardless if they caused the accident or otherwise.

 

 

[worgeordie]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Brilliant!

 

And what exactly is the OP going to prove with that well-intentioned but fundamentally useless bit of advice IN THIS INSTANCE?

Well the poster DID purchase a car camera off LaZaDa ,so next time he will be

prepared ,so he did take my advice.

 

NamLaew, You could not have possibly thought that I was telling him to buy a camera,

for an accident that had already happened !,that would just be stupid to think that........

regards worgeordie

[roo860]

Send the police your insurance agent's phone number and contact details.
Don't go to the police station yourself. Refuse all direct contact.
Only speak English with anyone/everyone, generally be as stupid and difficult as possible.

Good advice.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[DaRoadrunner]

I had a Thai girl step off the kerb right in front of me. Couldn't miss her, there was only one place the front wheel of my 250 kilo 750 chopper was going to end up.... right up her arse. She was a fat lump though so the impact made me lose my balance and I found myself lying in the road with the bike on top of my leg. Petrol gushing out of the tank all over me and her brother comes over smoking a cigarette and starts kicking me.

 

Down at the Police station farang got the blame. The family claimed she had suffered brain damage as a result of the accident. (How can you damage what she doesn't have? I asked).

 

I stonewalled and refused to pay anything as she should not have stepped off the kerb. In the end Police and family gave up.

 

Moral of story,.... if you are in the right, never give in. Thais will always try it on for money whether they are right or wrong. (Why do we stay in this country?)

 

In the OP's case I'd pass any Police inquiry on to the insurance company.

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[LukKrueng]

15 hours ago, simon43 said:

The ambulance arrived and took the man to hospital.  The traffic police arrived and marked the road, took photos of the scene, made a note of my contact details and left.  My insurance guy arrived promptly (I have class 1 insurance) and efficiently noted everything and is currently arranging for repair of my pick-up.

 

Now the local police have contacted me and said that I need to come to the police station to arrange to pay for the man's hospital bill and repairs to his samlor!!

Did your insurance guy arrive before or after the police? 

Anyway - all contact with police regarding this accident should be done through the insurance guy. Best is if you let him do the talking and you just sit and listen, and reply through him as well.

In cases where the accident is between a "lower class" vehicle and a "higher class" vehicle (as in your case - pick-up vs tuk-tuk) and the "lower class" driver is injured and have only the compulsory insurance, the police will ask the insured guy to help cover some of the medical costs of the injured person out of compassion. It is not unusual and happens even if both parties are Thai. The way and amount is negotiable and this negotiation should be done by the insurance guy. If you refuse the police have the option to send the issue to court and they can arrest you on the spot until the trial. However, for this reason your 1st class insurance has a set amount for bail money (I think it is 50K) but it takes them about 24 hours to get the money to the police, so it will be good idea to have the bail money ready so you can immediately post bail by yourself. Please note that such negotiations can take time and more than 1 meeting with the police so it's not like "pay now or go to jail" thing, but if no agreement on the first meeting your insurance guy can ask for an appointment for the next meeting and you will not be held at the police for now.

[thailand49]

Bit uncleared as to what you were doing?  But not all insurance agent are the same just like what we expect out of the police? 

Some agents like for Bangkok Bank think like the police and actually side and want their company to pay because you are a farang then raise your rates thereafter this is the easy solution just like what the police expect.

If you go down they will turn the problem upside down and make up all sort of things that has nothing to do with the actual driving code. Usually they will say " wreckless driving with no actual proof " You should pay it will make you feel better even bringing in religion. This is one of the major problems police trying to be judge and jury and not knowing from right or wrong. 

In the end, it is really about standing firm they hope and expect like so many to be scared and back down the reason they continue to do what they do thinking they are helping but in reality making it worse. If your agent agrees with you and goes down to speak make sure he or she knows if this can't be resolved then contact your lawyer surely the truck driver company will stand firm with the police.

Regardless, your story seems like the truck was tailgating impatiences and trying at the last second switch to a lane trucks have no business using?

Edited May 30, 2019 by thailand49

[recom273]

When you say Samlor? Do you mean the bike and sidecar made from tubular steel? 

 

I have one, well I bought it for the wife, i use it occasionally - I always thought they are illegal vehicles. 

 

Every year I have to remove the sidecar and take it for inspection, but I would suggest most locals dont.

 

Jus’ saying .. 

 

Good luck