Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[scubascuba3]

27 minutes ago, rott said:

True enough, but is any bar/entertainment Soi doing any better. I can't think of one. 

no better but kom reckons the landlord is raking in millions a month

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, kinyara said:

 

I thought an interesting snippet In the interview was that he mentioned that his landlord is Toyota corporation.   

Yes, I always thought of it as owned by Lengkhee family. Also interesting is they are unwilling to reduce rent as they would simply 'turn it back over to the bank'... which suggests, well I do not know what, perhaps there is a loan based on it. I still feel whoever owns it should consider the concept of giving tenants a break... in the hope there will be something there when restrictions lift. But being so close to the new market, eating development on the old Excite land, it may be in demand despite it's bar only footprint. 

[scubascuba3]

Soi Pothole will probably be good again but not if more massage shops are converted to bars, there's too many bars already and no demand for it, that doesn't stop falang trying to live the dream

[Olmate]

14 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Soi Pothole will probably be good again but not if more massage shops are converted to bars, there's too many bars already and no demand for it, that doesn't stop falang trying to live the dream

Agree but have you ever wondered why there are no bars as such in Klang,around Soi Buckow area. Must be a zoning issue?

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Soi Pothole will probably be good again but not if more massage shops are converted to bars, there's too many bars already and no demand for it, that doesn't stop falang trying to live the dream

The recent announcement that many massage shop licences have been allowed to lapse suggests there will not be as many of them... but I don't know what the situation is wrt obtaining a bar/ alcohol licence. Was it not the case that no more were being issued, so new bars were unlikely, just new replacements? 

[kinyara]

As these better known, bigger and apparently previously profitable establishments pack in,  at least if you are a potential future investor you're getting a free exercise in due diligence, rather than having to rely so heavily on possibly the padded numbers, creative accounting and pure marketing fluff of old .  You're starting from an almost clean slate with the biggest factor being your ability to successfully predict when and how many of your target customers will actually arrive in Pattaya. 

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, Olmate said:

Agree but have you ever wondered why there are no bars as such in Klang,around Soi Buckow area. Must be a zoning issue?

Maybe but there have been bars there, (karaoke opposite, and one just round from Buakhao now closed plus the ones between 2nd road and beach road)

[DerbyDan]

16 hours ago, kinyara said:

 

I thought an interesting snippet In the interview was that he mentioned that his landlord is Toyota corporation.   

he said everything was through a property management broker, not him communicating with the landlord directly. i could hear his frustration when he mentioned this, and i know why.

 

a broker typically gets a cut on each months rent, so you never know what they are/are not communicating to the landlord. usually if they have a contract they won't bring up any problems, and/or play each side.

 

i tried this personally with a property i rent and it causes more problems then it's worth, the broker collecting fees from both sides, and also using their own vendors for costly repairs which the tenant is convinced to need and relayed to the landlord in a way suggesting it's urgent etc. the list goes on.

 

mine was not in thailand, but it's interesting how these things cross cultures, just like old scams that are the same anywhere you go.

Edited June 5, 2021 by DerbyDan

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Soi Pothole will probably be good again but not if more massage shops are converted to bars, there's too many bars already and no demand for it, that doesn't stop falang trying to live the dream

 

Soi Pothole has a lot of cheap accommodation for bar girls, particularly freelancers.  Of course, most of those rooms are empty now.

 

In relation to the bars on Soi Pothole, Pattaya is basically one big game of musical chairs when it comes to rents. 

 

Enclaves become established on the back of cheaper rents, thus cheaper drinks and bar fines.  How many customers did LK Metro take away from Walking Street?  

 

It's a race to the bottom here on pricing.  

 

Soi Boomerang is becoming a new enclave. 

 

The bars on Soi Pothole don't necessarily have to compete with other bars for alcohol sales, just compete with the business models of the other more expensive bars to take their customers.  In effect, use their poorer location, but cheaper rent, thus cheaper alcohol and "services" to their advantage.  

 

Example,  say a dozen bars on Soi Pothole started offering girls and short time rooms upstairs.  Due to their cheaper rents than Soi 6, they can undercut Soi 6 bars on drink and lady drink prices, and over a couple of years really eat into Soi 6's customer base, just as LK Metro took many from Walking Street's customer base.  The dozen bars expands to 20 bars and it becomes an enclave for short time, just as Soi 6 is, but at Soi 6's expense.  

 

Soi Pothole is ripe for this.  Soi 6 would be decimated if the Nightwish Group bought their 28 bars on Soi Pothole, and instantly undercut all the bars on Soi 6.  Had this happened, Soi Pothole would have become the "LK Metro" of short time. 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Leaver

[Leaver]

12 hours ago, kinyara said:

As these better known, bigger and apparently previously profitable establishments pack in,  at least if you are a potential future investor you're getting a free exercise in due diligence, rather than having to rely so heavily on possibly the padded numbers, creative accounting and pure marketing fluff of old .  You're starting from an almost clean slate with the biggest factor being your ability to successfully predict when and how many of your target customers will actually arrive in Pattaya. 

 

It's looking more and more like the whole of Central Pattaya is going to be a "blank canvas" for existing businesses, and new businesses. 

 

One advantage a new business may have over an existing business is, they MAY have cheaper rent than an existing business, which will be reflected in their prices.

 

It's possible that a business that has toiled throughout covid to survive, will be punished for doing so.

 

Thus, we could very well see closures of businesses that survived covid, but can not compete with businesses that started post covid with cheaper rents.

 

Time will tell.  

[Leaver]

On 6/5/2021 at 7:49 AM, jacko45k said:

The recent announcement that many massage shop licences have been allowed to lapse suggests there will not be as many of them... but I don't know what the situation is wrt obtaining a bar/ alcohol licence. Was it not the case that no more were being issued, so new bars were unlikely, just new replacements? 

 

There will be so many unused alcohol licenses, or alcohol licenses handed back, or not renewed, that I can't see this being a problem for a few years.  Anyone wanting to open a bar shouldn't have a problem getting an alcohol license.  

[champers]

Rejuvanation has already started in some places. The VIP bar complex on Naklua / Pattaya Road is an example: a large karaoke bar is being constructed to replace beerbars in the back half of the complex. Many of the beerbars being replaced were already closed or on the wane even before Covid. The only beerbars left are fronting onto the main road. I think only 3 of those were actually operating  before the current lockdown.

[Leaver]

On 6/6/2021 at 6:12 PM, champers said:

Rejuvanation has already started in some places. The VIP bar complex on Naklua / Pattaya Road is an example: a large karaoke bar is being constructed to replace beerbars in the back half of the complex. Many of the beerbars being replaced were already closed or on the wane even before Covid. The only beerbars left are fronting onto the main road. I think only 3 of those were actually operating  before the current lockdown.

 

Rejuvenation or renovation?  

 

We saw some bars on Soi 7 being renovated, but they sat empty with no tenant.  Certainly no rejuvenation on that Soi.  

 

Likewise, some gogo's are being renovated on LK Metro, but even when bars can open again, it will take a long time for the area to be rejuvenated. 

[rott]

On 6/5/2021 at 8:33 PM, Leaver said:

 

It's looking more and more like the whole of Central Pattaya is going to be a "blank canvas" for existing businesses, and new businesses. 

 

One advantage a new business may have over an existing business is, they MAY have cheaper rent than an existing business, which will be reflected in their prices.

 

It's possible that a business that has toiled throughout covid to survive, will be punished for doing so.

 

Thus, we could very well see closures of businesses that survived covid, but can not compete with businesses that started post covid with cheaper rents.

 

Time will tell.  

Blank canvas indeed. Just sat in a coffee place for an hour or so and the block opposite had 5 empty premises out of 6, the remaining one being a salon that had no customers while I was there. 

Of the 5 two had been massage places, one a resto and two unstated. That is of course repeated all over Pattaya, not sure about Buakhao as I've not been there for a few weeks. The puzzle is who will be signing a lease, paying key money and an extortionate rent even when customers start trickling back. It is now about 15 months since it all started going wrong and the surprise is that there's as many functioning businesses as there are. 

[scubascuba3]

My barber reliably informs me no one is paying key money anymore

[mrbojangles]

Only relocated here a couple of months ago, so not sure which Bars have reopened (for food)

 

Out of the bars still open, what are the options for a sunday roast? I'm gagging for a good bit of stodge. I'm on the darkside but nothing is too near or too far

[rott]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

My barber reliably informs me no one is paying key money anymore

The green shoots of reality.? 

Some consolation (or possibly none) for those who paid 3 years worth early last year or late 2019. 

[rott]

43 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

Only relocated here a couple of months ago, so not sure which Bars have reopened (for food)

 

Out of the bars still open, what are the options for a sunday roast? I'm gagging for a good bit of stodge. I'm on the darkside but nothing is too near or too far

The Robin Hood at The Avenue. Not keen myself but everyone else rates it. Try a look along Soi Buakhao. Welcome to Pattaya seeing as your team scraped it again. 

[mrbojangles]

33 minutes ago, rott said:

The Robin Hood at The Avenue. Not keen myself but everyone else rates it. Try a look along Soi Buakhao. Welcome to Pattaya seeing as your team scraped it again. 

 

Cheers rott. Didn't know whether many things would still be open along Buakhao. I heard Cheap Charlies is open and they do a sunday roast but I've never had a meal in there

[rott]

22 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

 

Cheers rott. Didn't know whether may things would still be open along Buakhao. I heard Cheap Charlies is open and they do a sunday roast but I've never had a meal in there

Yeah Cheap Charlie's is OK, never had the Sunday Lunch there though, I'm weaned off them over the years. The last one I had was the excellent one at the Retox, sadly no longer with us. 

[mrbojangles]

1 hour ago, rott said:

Yeah Cheap Charlie's is OK, never had the Sunday Lunch there though, I'm weaned off them over the years. The last one I had was the excellent one at the Retox, sadly no longer with us. 

 

I think I've done ok. 2 months of rice and masaman, pad kra pao, green curries etc, etc my body is telling me to have some stodge. We'll be off up to the boonies soon as the daughter's school can't re-open monday, so I need to get it in quick 

[TaaSaparot]

2 hours ago, mrbojangles said:

 

Cheers rott. Didn't know whether many things would still be open along Buakhao. 

 

Nickys is best on Buakhao.

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, rott said:

Blank canvas indeed. Just sat in a coffee place for an hour or so and the block opposite had 5 empty premises out of 6, the remaining one being a salon that had no customers while I was there. 

Of the 5 two had been massage places, one a resto and two unstated. That is of course repeated all over Pattaya, not sure about Buakhao as I've not been there for a few weeks. The puzzle is who will be signing a lease, paying key money and an extortionate rent even when customers start trickling back. It is now about 15 months since it all started going wrong and the surprise is that there's as many functioning businesses as there are. 

 

Many people seem to think that as soon s the borders open, most of these empty commercial premises will be snapped up and Pattaya will be like it was before, almost instantly.  

 

I can't see it happening at that pace.  I think it will take some years for the majority of the closes premises to be tenanted again.  

 

As some members have posted, Pattaya wasn't doing so well before covid with western tourists, and covid just hastened the inevitable. 

 

As if surviving business owners haven't had enough to deal with, imagine seeing a similar place for rent nearby, with no key money,  cheaper rent, and possibly a long term.  They go to their own Thai landlord and give them some comparable locations, prices and contracts, to show the rental market is down, and their Thai landlord sticks to his monthly rent price and annual key money amount, no change.  How evil.  

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

My barber reliably informs me no one is paying key money anymore

I would expect that there are fewer demands, but surely they might get asked especially a foreigner exhibiting quite an investment in the property. Doesn't key money only come up on renewing a multiple year lease?

[rott]

44 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I would expect that there are fewer demands, but surely they might get asked especially a foreigner exhibiting quite an investment in the property. Doesn't key money only come up on renewing a multiple year lease?

To my knowledge key money on retail premises is every 3 years. 

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, rott said:

To my knowledge key money on retail premises is every 3 years. 

No key money anymore down here in Phuket

[rott]

4 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

No key money anymore down here in Phuket

I was thinking of the position in more normal times in Pattaya. 

 

Anyone with knowledge of recent times in the bar or massage businesses here.?

 

In Phuket roughly how long has this been the case. 

[jacko45k]

11 minutes ago, rott said:

I was thinking of the position in more normal times in Pattaya. 

 

Anyone with knowledge of recent times in the bar or massage businesses here.?

 

In Phuket roughly how long has this been the case. 

Some landlords give breaks, some do not, heard both tales from Pattaya bar owners. 

[rott]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Some landlords give breaks, some do not, heard both tales from Pattaya bar owners. 

I know of 3 bars that were getting a 30% discount on rent up till the end of Feb, it was due to end then and was not looking good. But never heard whether they got a continuance or not. 

[champers]

Key money for falangs.