Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[kinyara]

2 hours ago, champers said:

With the cost of living in the West being through the roof I wonder if some retirees are giving serious thought to moving here permanently.

That's why I think Pattaya will have a good high season Western tourism wise, think of all the traditional longer stay snowbirds who come from Nov-April to avoid the European winter who have been away for 2 high seasons. With the rise in their heating costs it makes even more sense to spend the winter here, the increased cost of the flight will be more than recouped with the other cost savings made. 

[VBF]

1 hour ago, kinyara said:

That's why I think Pattaya will have a good high season Western tourism wise, think of all the traditional longer stay snowbirds who come from Nov-April to avoid the European winter who have been away for 2 high seasons. With the rise in their heating costs it makes even more sense to spend the winter here, the increased cost of the flight will be more than recouped with the other cost savings made. 

That's what I'm looking at!

[champers]

4 hours ago, kinyara said:

That's why I think Pattaya will have a good high season Western tourism wise, think of all the traditional longer stay snowbirds who come from Nov-April to avoid the European winter who have been away for 2 high seasons. With the rise in their heating costs it makes even more sense to spend the winter here, the increased cost of the flight will be more than recouped with the other cost savings made. 

Apparently, air fares are high but hotel rooms are cheap. The latter could offset the former, depending on the length of stay.

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, champers said:

With the cost of living in the West being through the roof I wonder if some retirees are giving serious thought to moving here permanently.

I expect many will consider it..... at least more will consider wintering here and spending their heating allowance on something else. 

[kinyara]

This thread has run its course, Covid sorted out the wheat from the chaff and the well run favourites of old made it through to welcome their repeat loyal tourist custom back this high season. It's all about imminent openings in the lead up to the end of the year offering fresh alternatives to those that have been away for the last 2 years.  

 

Bullet Bar with possibly the biggest sign I've seen in Jomtien is an imminent opening before the turn to the beach I noticed today. The old Bruno's restaurant, ( short-lived Chinese ), is another being prepared for a new offering. 

 

The phoenix rises from the ashes, to much teeth gnashing from the eternal bitter and twisted.

 

 

[Leaver]

On 8/29/2022 at 10:54 AM, champers said:

With the cost of living in the West being through the roof I wonder if some retirees are giving serious thought to moving here permanently.

 

Some retirees who were sitting on the fence may make the move for a better lifestyle.  It's the two week millionaires that may not have the money for their annual holiday here.

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, kinyara said:

This thread has run its course, Covid sorted out the wheat from the chaff and the well run favourites of old made it through to welcome their repeat loyal tourist custom back this high season. It's all about imminent openings in the lead up to the end of the year offering fresh alternatives to those that have been away for the last 2 years.  

 

Bullet Bar with possibly the biggest sign I've seen in Jomtien is an imminent opening before the turn to the beach I noticed today. The old Bruno's restaurant, ( short-lived Chinese ), is another being prepared for a new offering. 

 

The phoenix rises from the ashes, to much teeth gnashing from the eternal bitter and twisted.

 

 

 

I don't think the thread has run its course. 

 

I started this thread way before covid because bars and restaurants were closing all the time, including some that were "wheat."  If / when Pattaya returns to normal, they will still be closing. 

 

As I have said before, there's been around 2 years of very little trade, thus no profits.  There were some covid discounts on rent, which have ended.  A typical commercial lease is 3 years. 

 

Obviously, businesses put aside some profits to pay for the next lease.  They have not been able to do that through most of the life of their current lease. 

 

Do business owners spend more of their savings to buy another lease, effectively buying the same lease twice, advertise the business for sale, or simply walk away?

 

As we know, covid restrictions have ended for Thailand.  There is no reason, covid related, for people not to holiday here, and many other tourist destinations in Thailand, and around the world.

 

The problem for the global tourism industry now is the high cost of living due to inflation, most notable energy costs, rising interest rates, and the high price for air tickets due to high fuel costs. 

 

We are currently in the traditional low season.  I think snowbirds will be returning, but I am not so sure the typical two week millionaire will be here in the coming high season.  If not, you can expect more closures.

 

Even now, there are many business owners who want out, and without a buyer, eventually they will be evicted.  There's the recent article about the Indian guy on Soi 7 where the Thai landlord became violent.

 

Here's a typical recent advertisement.

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/-ref-0545-bar-with-rooms-for-sale-471494

 

Other members have posted of other businesses going on the market, some being well known, so I wouldn't call them "chaff." 

 

The big nightclub with the pool in the middle of Tree Town closed recently.  Would you call that place "chaff" as well?  Big money was spent on it. 

 

There's the nightclub on Soi Baukhao that never opened that may possibly be advertised for sale at the moment.  Also big money spent on it. 

 

It's not just the "chaff" here that will have a difficult time in the future due to a looming global recession. 

 

 

[whitemouse]

On 8/31/2022 at 11:44 AM, kinyara said:

This thread has run its course, Covid sorted out the wheat from the chaff and the well run favourites of old made it through to welcome their repeat loyal tourist custom back this high season. It's all about imminent openings in the lead up to the end of the year offering fresh alternatives to those that have been away for the last 2 years.  

 

Bullet Bar with possibly the biggest sign I've seen in Jomtien is an imminent opening before the turn to the beach I noticed today. The old Bruno's restaurant, ( short-lived Chinese ), is another being prepared for a new offering. 

 

The phoenix rises from the ashes, to much teeth gnashing from the eternal bitter and twisted.

 

 

Feel free to leave this thread. 

 

To me, this is a very interesting thread, thread with useful information and insight. Pattaya is on crossroads of what it used to be, and where it is going, this thread is more relevant than ever.

[kinyara]

On 9/1/2022 at 12:20 PM, Leaver said:

 

I don't think the thread has run its course. 

 

I started this thread way before covid because bars and restaurants were closing all the time, including some that were "wheat."  If / when Pattaya returns to normal, they will still be closing. 

 

As I have said before, there's been around 2 years of very little trade, thus no profits.  There were some covid discounts on rent, which have ended.  A typical commercial lease is 3 years. 

 

Obviously, businesses put aside some profits to pay for the next lease.  They have not been able to do that through most of the life of their current lease. 

 

Do business owners spend more of their savings to buy another lease, effectively buying the same lease twice, advertise the business for sale, or simply walk away?

 

As we know, covid restrictions have ended for Thailand.  There is no reason, covid related, for people not to holiday here, and many other tourist destinations in Thailand, and around the world.

 

The problem for the global tourism industry now is the high cost of living due to inflation, most notable energy costs, rising interest rates, and the high price for air tickets due to high fuel costs. 

 

We are currently in the traditional low season.  I think snowbirds will be returning, but I am not so sure the typical two week millionaire will be here in the coming high season.  If not, you can expect more closures.

 

Even now, there are many business owners who want out, and without a buyer, eventually they will be evicted.  There's the recent article about the Indian guy on Soi 7 where the Thai landlord became violent.

 

Here's a typical recent advertisement.

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/-ref-0545-bar-with-rooms-for-sale-471494

 

Other members have posted of other businesses going on the market, some being well known, so I wouldn't call them "chaff." 

 

The big nightclub with the pool in the middle of Tree Town closed recently.  Would you call that place "chaff" as well?  Big money was spent on it. 

 

There's the nightclub on Soi Baukhao that never opened that may possibly be advertised for sale at the moment.  Also big money spent on it. 

 

It's not just the "chaff" here that will have a difficult time in the future due to a looming global recession. 

 

 

So c'mon then, which of your favourites is imminently closing ?  

 

I don't think in the last 7 months I've read of anyone posting that a specific  favourite of their's is imminently closing followed by its closure. 

 

The places you mention were new and took an adventurous perhaps early gamble timing wise, and I guess didn't become enough people's favourite, hence why they closed. Poor business decision making.  There has/are always been businesses being traded in Pattaya at any given point in time, plucking one of such a website proves nothing other than normality.

[JimTripper]

15 hours ago, kinyara said:

So c'mon then, which of your favourites is imminently closing ?  

 

I don't think in the last 7 months I've read of anyone posting that a specific  favourite of their's is imminently closing followed by its closure. 

 

The places you mention were new and took an adventurous perhaps early gamble timing wise, and I guess didn't become enough people's favourite, hence why they closed. Poor business decision making.  There has/are always been businesses being traded in Pattaya at any given point in time, plucking one of such a website proves nothing other than normality.

The other question is does it matter? There does not appear to be a lot of loyalty to specific establishments in Pattaya. People generally go where other people like them go and that's where prices are cheaper. I don't think many people car what the name on the door is. There always seems to be a new popular place with cheaper prices.

[kinyara]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

The other question is does it matter? There does not appear to be a lot of loyalty to specific establishments in Pattaya. People generally go where other people like them go and that's where prices are cheaper. I don't think many people car what the name on the door is. There always seems to be a new popular place with cheaper prices.

Yeah the reality is we are never going to be short of venues across the spectrum.

 

To me it would only matter currently if there was evidence of well established businesses closing, I don't see any, but also no evidence of new businesses opening - I see openings happening. 

 

I think there is a reasonable degree of customer loyalty here, some of the long-standing places I automatically think of aren't the cheapest or most expensive, they operate in the middle ground with the key combination of good value and service. Cheaper prices elsewhere won't shift me from my regulars, I value pleasant staff, comfort and location.

[Leaver]

16 hours ago, kinyara said:

So c'mon then, which of your favourites is imminently closing ?  

 

I don't think in the last 7 months I've read of anyone posting that a specific  favourite of their's is imminently closing followed by its closure. 

 

The places you mention were new and took an adventurous perhaps early gamble timing wise, and I guess didn't become enough people's favourite, hence why they closed. Poor business decision making.  There has/are always been businesses being traded in Pattaya at any given point in time, plucking one of such a website proves nothing other than normality.

 

Everyone has different favorites.  Whilst I may not have lost a favorite recently, that's not to say others haven't. 

 

You make an interesting comment, "The places you mention were new and took an adventurous perhaps early gamble timing wise." 

 

We have seen a lot of new construction, moving of premises, rebranding, renovation etc by businesses here.  One being the nightclub on Soi Baukhao which never opened, and may be on the market.  Another that comes to mid is High Rollers.  You say their gamble was in their covid timing, but who could see the war in Ukraine, rising interest rates, high inflation rates, and huge increases in the price of energy, notably fuel, thus the  cost of air tickets? 

 

Is it possible many other establishments have over capitalized also?

 

Question:  Do YOU think current global economic conditions, which are getting tougher by the month, will cause more closures here in the future? 

 

The vast majority of business owners here rent their premises.  A commercial premises is not like a home, that you can continue to live in, rent free, whilst it's on the market for sale.  All those businesses for sale that have been linked in this thread are still paying rent. 

 

As I have said, without a buyer, do they continue to dip into their own savings to make up for losses, or do they walk away?  Indeed, many will not have the capital from over 2 years of a 3 year lease to buy in again.

 

Here's a new listing in Jomtien.  I think many will know the establishment.

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/popular-succesful-sports-bar-in-pattaya-jomtien-soi-7-for-sale-471645

 

It may or may not be the favorite place of some people, but for how long does it stay on the market before the owner can no longer continue to prop it up, or the next lease falls due? 

 

Do you think all these bars coming onto the market will remain open until a buyer is found?  At some stage they will have to cut their losses, causing a closure. 

 

There are probably quite a few owners like the Indian guy on Soi 7 in a recent article.  The only reason it made the news is because some violence was involved over eviction. 

 

Here's another new listing on Soi Baukhao.  As we know, this area is now the center of the nightlife in Pattaya, yet, it's for sale.

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/-ref-0544-bar-guesthouse-for-sale-471492

 

Notice in the narrative, "The bar is currently not trading."   The owner may be paying rent, with no other expenses, in the hope of selling for 1.9 million baht.  The place is already closed, but could other owners do the same, in the hope of finding a buyer?  How long do they keep paying the rent before walking away? 

 

The next high season will be interesting.  Things like energy bills rising 80% in the UK from October will not help tourism for Thailand.

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

The other question is does it matter? There does not appear to be a lot of loyalty to specific establishments in Pattaya. People generally go where other people like them go and that's where prices are cheaper. I don't think many people car what the name on the door is. There always seems to be a new popular place with cheaper prices.

 

This is why I have often said, "it's a race to the bottom here." 

 

So, what becomes of the places that aren't selling 60 baht beers?  Could it be, they eventually close?  ???? 

[Leaver]

27 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Yeah the reality is we are never going to be short of venues across the spectrum.

 

To me it would only matter currently if there was evidence of well established businesses closing, I don't see any, but also no evidence of new businesses opening - I see openings happening. 

 

I think there is a reasonable degree of customer loyalty here, some of the long-standing places I automatically think of aren't the cheapest or most expensive, they operate in the middle ground with the key combination of good value and service. Cheaper prices elsewhere won't shift me from my regulars, I value pleasant staff, comfort and location.

 

You will never struggle to have a meal, get drunk, and get laid in Pattaya.  The thread is not about the number of venues, but the venues that are closing, or closed.

 

Does a venue have to be well established to be someone's favorite?

 

I disagree there is a reasonable degree of customer loyalty here.  As another member said, many expats move to where the cheapest prices are. 

 

I have given the example in the past of a Thai landlord raising the rent on a business selling 60 baht beers, so now the owner has to charge 65 or 70 baht a beer, and most of the customers move to another bar down the road selling 60 baht beers.  With poor exchange rates and the rising cost of living, I can only see this increasing as the purchasing power of pensions decline.

 

Some of my favorite places are not the cheapest.  I am prepared to pay higher prices for a more comfortable environment.  Eg. air conditioning.  However, the "middle ground" just like the "middle class" in many countries is shrinking.   As mentioned, pensions are not going as far as they used to, something that will continue into the near future. 

 

Do such establishments raise their prices and maintain their current products and services, or start cutting expenses, or go for the cheap beer high turn over business model?  

 

How do "middle ground" establishments remain operational as more and more expats seek out the cheapest eats and drink across Pattaya?

 

 

 

 

 

[kinyara]

24 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Everyone has different favorites.  Whilst I may not have lost a favorite recently, that's not to say others haven't. 

 

You make an interesting comment, "The places you mention were new and took an adventurous perhaps early gamble timing wise." 

 

We have seen a lot of new construction, moving of premises, rebranding, renovation etc by businesses here.  One being the nightclub on Soi Baukhao which never opened, and may be on the market.  Another that comes to mid is High Rollers.  You say their gamble was in their covid timing, but who could see the war in Ukraine, rising interest rates, high inflation rates, and huge increases in the price of energy, notably fuel, thus the  cost of air tickets? 

 

Is it possible many other establishments have over capitalized also?

 

Question:  Do YOU think current global economic conditions, which are getting tougher by the month, will cause more closures here in the future? 

 

The vast majority of business owners here rent their premises.  A commercial premises is not like a home, that you can continue to live in, rent free, whilst it's on the market for sale.  All those businesses for sale that have been linked in this thread are still paying rent. 

 

As I have said, without a buyer, do they continue to dip into their own savings to make up for losses, or do they walk away?  Indeed, many will not have the capital from over 2 years of a 3 year lease to buy in again.

 

Here's a new listing in Jomtien.  I think many will know the establishment.

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/popular-succesful-sports-bar-in-pattaya-jomtien-soi-7-for-sale-471645

 

It may or may not be the favorite place of some people, but for how long does it stay on the market before the owner can no longer continue to prop it up, or the next lease falls due? 

 

Do you think all these bars coming onto the market will remain open until a buyer is found?  At some stage they will have to cut their losses, causing a closure. 

 

There are probably quite a few owners like the Indian guy on Soi 7 in a recent article.  The only reason it made the news is because some violence was involved over eviction. 

 

Here's another new listing on Soi Baukhao.  As we know, this area is now the center of the nightlife in Pattaya, yet, it's for sale.

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/-ref-0544-bar-guesthouse-for-sale-471492

 

Notice in the narrative, "The bar is currently not trading."   The owner may be paying rent, with no other expenses, in the hope of selling for 1.9 million baht.  The place is already closed, but could other owners do the same, in the hope of finding a buyer?  How long do they keep paying the rent before walking away? 

 

The next high season will be interesting.  Things like energy bills rising 80% in the UK from October will not help tourism for Thailand.

As I said it's not just you that hasn't/isn't predicted an imminent closure then actual closure, it appears to be nobody which points to normal business ongoing as far as I'm concerned.

 

You raised the same general questions last year prior to borders reopening, there would be a plethora of leases for renewal at Christmas - how many would carry on ? It came and went with no discernible level of closures across the board. Then when that passed you moved on to questioning how many would be able to make it through the low season failing to profit on the high season - again no discernible level of closures so far that anyone would notice. We are now actually seeing the opposite happening. Now you are back kicking the can down the road again using the same chestnut of lease renewal with the added spice of global economic factors thrown in.

 

Has your definition of imminent now changed to 8 months time ?  I thought is was supposed to be a useful thread for what is happening here and now, and on the whole that appears to be more about openings not closures as far as I can see.

 

I made the point that it would be extremely unusual in a city the size of Pattaya if there weren't businesses being sold regularly, you quote 1 for sale in an area where there must be well over a hundred operating which is clearly insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It indicates nothing other than normality. 

 

Anyway I'm imminently off to enjoy a couple of Saturday afternoon pints in a favourite that has survived and appears to be attracting loyal regulars and more tourists week by week. It's not cheap so I would say it's only a race to the bottom if that's your target custom and it rarely seems to end well without some other unique selling point.

 

Have a nice weekend, trust you've got a hot online date lined up and you can still find a bar open to take her. ????

 

[JimTripper]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Everyone has different favorites.  Whilst I may not have lost a favorite recently, that's not to say others haven't. 

 

You make an interesting comment, "The places you mention were new and took an adventurous perhaps early gamble timing wise." 

 

We have seen a lot of new construction, moving of premises, rebranding, renovation etc by businesses here.  One being the nightclub on Soi Baukhao which never opened, and may be on the market.  Another that comes to mid is High Rollers.  You say their gamble was in their covid timing, but who could see the war in Ukraine, rising interest rates, high inflation rates, and huge increases in the price of energy, notably fuel, thus the  cost of air tickets? 

 

Is it possible many other establishments have over capitalized also?

 

Question:  Do YOU think current global economic conditions, which are getting tougher by the month, will cause more closures here in the future? 

 

The vast majority of business owners here rent their premises.  A commercial premises is not like a home, that you can continue to live in, rent free, whilst it's on the market for sale.  All those businesses for sale that have been linked in this thread are still paying rent. 

 

As I have said, without a buyer, do they continue to dip into their own savings to make up for losses, or do they walk away?  Indeed, many will not have the capital from over 2 years of a 3 year lease to buy in again.

 

Here's a new listing in Jomtien.  I think many will know the establishment.

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/popular-succesful-sports-bar-in-pattaya-jomtien-soi-7-for-sale-471645

 

It may or may not be the favorite place of some people, but for how long does it stay on the market before the owner can no longer continue to prop it up, or the next lease falls due? 

 

Do you think all these bars coming onto the market will remain open until a buyer is found?  At some stage they will have to cut their losses, causing a closure. 

 

There are probably quite a few owners like the Indian guy on Soi 7 in a recent article.  The only reason it made the news is because some violence was involved over eviction. 

 

Here's another new listing on Soi Baukhao.  As we know, this area is now the center of the nightlife in Pattaya, yet, it's for sale.

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/-ref-0544-bar-guesthouse-for-sale-471492

 

Notice in the narrative, "The bar is currently not trading."   The owner may be paying rent, with no other expenses, in the hope of selling for 1.9 million baht.  The place is already closed, but could other owners do the same, in the hope of finding a buyer?  How long do they keep paying the rent before walking away? 

 

The next high season will be interesting.  Things like energy bills rising 80% in the UK from October will not help tourism for Thailand.

What happens if they walk away, does the business revert to the landlord?

 

If so the landlord could keep reselling the same business each time an owner walked or could not pay the rent.

 

Then they try to sell to naive people, collect rent while the place loses money, then resell it again.

Edited September 3, 2022 by JimTripper

[scubascuba3]

25 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

What happens if they walk away, does the business revert to the landlord?

 

If so the landlord could keep reselling the same business each time an owner walked or could not pay the rent.

 

Then they try to sell to naive people, collect rent while the place loses money, then resell it again.

you often see desperate sellers trying to get 1m baht which is often the deemed value of everything, eventually it just goes back to the landlord, a renter comes in and starts again and guts the place, repeat 2 years later

Edited September 3, 2022 by scubascuba3

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

you often see desperate sellers trying to get 1m baht which is often the deemed value of everything, eventually it just goes back to the landlord, a renter comes in and starts again and guts the place, repeat 2 years later

Quite often paying key money and a deposit/ upfront rental..... renting and doing renovations must be great earners. 

Edited September 3, 2022 by jacko45k

[scubascuba3]

15 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Quite often paying key money and a deposit/ upfront rental..... renting and doing renovations must be great earners. 

Yep, one thing I've noticed is the slow openings of 7 Eleven and Familymarts, I'm wondering if they are playing hardball with the rent agreement i.e. inclusion of pandemic clause

[Leaver]

On 9/3/2022 at 4:02 AM, kinyara said:

As I said it's not just you that hasn't/isn't predicted an imminent closure then actual closure,

I posted just a few weeks ago of the closure of the very large, and very expensive club, with a swimming pool, in the middle of Tree Town.  A lot of money spent on that place.  It's the biggest establishment in Tree Town, the supposed part of Pattaya nightlife that is "thriving." 

 

On 9/3/2022 at 4:02 AM, kinyara said:

Has your definition of imminent now changed to 8 months time ? 

Here's the definition of "imminent."

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imminent

 

"ready to take place : happening soon"

 

Note the word, "soon."  Would you be happy if the thread title used the word "soon" instead of "imminent?"  ???? 

 

The closures came in waves, but yes, as leases are expiring, there are for sales signs and closures.  Leases come up for renewal all the time here.  What becomes of those who can not buy in again, can not continue to pay rent, and can not find a buyer - it closes. 

 

How do you think the coming high season is shaping up?  No Russians, very little Chinese, and westerners struggling to pay their bills, let alone have an overseas holiday. 

 

On 9/3/2022 at 4:02 AM, kinyara said:

on the whole that appears to be more about openings not closures as far as I can see.

 

This is quite a contradiction, because unless there have been new land releases in Central Pattaya, every new opening equals a past closing, does it not?

 

Is it possible that a premises that has been bought, changed, and opened as something else, or a different style of bar / restaurant, actually used to be someone's favorite before it was taken over by new owners? 

 

Sunday roast for me, followed by MotoGP then F1.  During the break between the two different forms of motor sport I will be on an app booking in a girl for after the F1, then it's off to see some live music.  I'll leave the lady drinks and bar fine for you to pay.  ???? 

 

As another member said, feel free to leave the thread.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Leaver

[Leaver]

23 hours ago, JimTripper said:

What happens if they walk away, does the business revert to the landlord?

 

If so the landlord could keep reselling the same business each time an owner walked or could not pay the rent.

 

Then they try to sell to naive people, collect rent while the place loses money, then resell it again.

 

Yes, it eventually reverts back to the Thai landlord.

 

What you describe has been happening here for decades. 

 

As I have said, Thai landlords push rents past what their property can sustain, causing the tenant to default, rinse and repeat, all the while, the cost of the higher rents being pushed onto customers, whilst places like Vietnam are charging the equivalent of 30 baht for a beer in a gentleman's club style bar.  Higher rents can be justified with upgraded infrastructure, or if the property owner renovates, but most don't, and you can't even walk on a sidewalk here.  

 

For those that can't find a buyer, they stand to lose the lot. 

 

With a global economic recession looming, how many buyers are around for the hundreds of commercial premises for sale here at the moment, with more coming onto the market everyday, some of them being someone's favorite place. 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Leaver

[kinyara]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Yes, it eventually reverts back to the Thai landlord.

 

What you describe has been happening here for decades. 

 

As I have said, Thai landlords push rents past what their property can sustain, causing the tenant to default, rinse and repeat, all the while, the cost of the higher rents being pushed onto customers, whilst places like Vietnam are charging the equivalent of 30 baht for a beer in a gentleman's club style bar.  Higher rents can be justified with upgraded infrastructure, or if the property owner renovates, but most don't, and you can't even walk on a sidewalk here.  

 

For those that can't find a buyer, they stand to lose the lot. 

 

With a global economic recession looming, how many buyers are around for the hundreds of commercial premises for sale here at the moment, with more coming onto the market everyday, some of them being someone's favorite place. 

 

 

Vietnam tourism Jan-July - 954,561

Thailand tourism July - 1,124,227

 

Tourists want something more than 30 baht beers,  Thailand clearly offers more.

[peterfranks]

5 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Vietnam tourism Jan-July - 954,561

Thailand tourism July - 1,124,227

 

Tourists want something more than 30 baht beers,  Thailand clearly offers more.

Vietnam just start to be attractive for tourists. Wait a few more years, and let's talk again.

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/vietnam/tourist-arrivals

 

 

[Olmate]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Yes, it eventually reverts back to the Thai landlord.

 

What you describe has been happening here for decades. 

 

As I have said, Thai landlords push rents past what their property can sustain, causing the tenant to default, rinse and repeat, all the while, the cost of the higher rents being pushed onto customers, whilst places like Vietnam are charging the equivalent of 30 baht for a beer in a gentleman's club style bar.  Higher rents can be justified with upgraded infrastructure, or if the property owner renovates, but most don't, and you can't even walk on a sidewalk here.  

 

For those that can't find a buyer, they stand to lose the lot. 

 

With a global economic recession looming, how many buyers are around for the hundreds of commercial premises for sale here at the moment, with more coming onto the market everyday, some of them being someone's favorite place. 

 

 

Another newbie for your rubbish!! 

[scubascuba3]

17 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Vietnam tourism Jan-July - 954,561

Thailand tourism July - 1,124,227

 

Tourists want something more than 30 baht beers,  Thailand clearly offers more.

Also a big difference is repeat factor, with Thailand people often come back many times, Vietnam nothing in comparison 

[kinyara]

23 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

Vietnam just start to be attractive for tourists. Wait a few more years, and let's talk again.

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/vietnam/tourist-arrivals

 

 

We've been waiting years already, it hasn't happened yet. It only attracted 45% of Thailand's numbers pre-covid, and that has now dropped to 30% this year since re-opening. 

 

One big growth market for Thaiand is actually Vietnamese, that suggests to me overall pricing isn't an issue. 

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Also a big difference is repeat factor, with Thailand people often come back many times, Vietnam nothing in comparison 

I went on holiday to Vietnam 8x between 2018 and 2020.

Best holiday destination I've ever been.

Edited September 4, 2022 by BritManToo

[JimTripper]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Yes, it eventually reverts back to the Thai landlord.

 

What you describe has been happening here for decades. 

 

As I have said, Thai landlords push rents past what their property can sustain, causing the tenant to default, rinse and repeat, all the while, the cost of the higher rents being pushed onto customers, whilst places like Vietnam are charging the equivalent of 30 baht for a beer in a gentleman's club style bar.  Higher rents can be justified with upgraded infrastructure, or if the property owner renovates, but most don't, and you can't even walk on a sidewalk here.  

 

For those that can't find a buyer, they stand to lose the lot. 

 

With a global economic recession looming, how many buyers are around for the hundreds of commercial premises for sale here at the moment, with more coming onto the market everyday, some of them being someone's favorite place. 

 

 

They are pushing the rent up after the lease expires, correct? Not just at a whim.

[Leaver]

On 9/4/2022 at 6:12 AM, kinyara said:

Vietnam tourism Jan-July - 954,561

Thailand tourism July - 1,124,227

 

Tourists want something more than 30 baht beers,  Thailand clearly offers more.

As I have posted before, Vietnam is building World Record breaking tourism infrastructure.  Thailand can't even build a sidewalk in their so called World Class tourists destinations.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHXgwCZGotg

 

Be sure to check out the prices at 5:30 in the video, and notice the free hammocks, no beach mafia in Vietnam. 

 

Prior to covid, Vietnam's tourism was increasing 32% year on year.

 

Where do you think tourists will be going 5 to 10 years from now, especially with Thailand being stuck in its old ways?

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 9/4/2022 at 6:28 AM, Olmate said:

Another newbie for your rubbish!! 

 

Fail.  ????