Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[Olmate]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Fail.  ????

 LOL

Not knewbie.? Just rubbish then!!

 

[kinyara]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

As I have posted before, Vietnam is building World Record breaking tourism infrastructure.  Thailand can't even build a sidewalk in their so called World Class tourists destinations.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHXgwCZGotg

 

Be sure to check out the prices at 5:30 in the video, and notice the free hammocks, no beach mafia in Vietnam. 

 

Prior to covid, Vietnam's tourism was increasing 32% year on year.

 

Where do you think tourists will be going 5 to 10 years from now, especially with Thailand being stuck in its old ways?

 

As per usual you're speculating and kicking the can down the road ignoring the reality of the here and now because it doesn't suit your narrative. Thailand is flexible enough to act quickly when required as we have just seen with the lengthening of tourist visa exempt/visa on arrivals for the high season, Vietnam is still a rigid bureaucratic communist state which lags behind on a basic issue like this. Have they done anything visa wise to incentivise tourism yet post Covid ?

[JimTripper]

On 8/31/2022 at 10:20 PM, Leaver said:

 

I don't think the thread has run its course. 

 

I started this thread way before covid because bars and restaurants were closing all the time, including some that were "wheat."  If / when Pattaya returns to normal, they will still be closing. 

 

As I have said before, there's been around 2 years of very little trade, thus no profits.  There were some covid discounts on rent, which have ended.  A typical commercial lease is 3 years. 

 

Obviously, businesses put aside some profits to pay for the next lease.  They have not been able to do that through most of the life of their current lease. 

 

Do business owners spend more of their savings to buy another lease, effectively buying the same lease twice, advertise the business for sale, or simply walk away?

 

As we know, covid restrictions have ended for Thailand.  There is no reason, covid related, for people not to holiday here, and many other tourist destinations in Thailand, and around the world.

 

The problem for the global tourism industry now is the high cost of living due to inflation, most notable energy costs, rising interest rates, and the high price for air tickets due to high fuel costs. 

 

We are currently in the traditional low season.  I think snowbirds will be returning, but I am not so sure the typical two week millionaire will be here in the coming high season.  If not, you can expect more closures.

 

Even now, there are many business owners who want out, and without a buyer, eventually they will be evicted.  There's the recent article about the Indian guy on Soi 7 where the Thai landlord became violent.

 

Here's a typical recent advertisement.

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/-ref-0545-bar-with-rooms-for-sale-471494

 

Other members have posted of other businesses going on the market, some being well known, so I wouldn't call them "chaff." 

 

The big nightclub with the pool in the middle of Tree Town closed recently.  Would you call that place "chaff" as well?  Big money was spent on it. 

 

There's the nightclub on Soi Baukhao that never opened that may possibly be advertised for sale at the moment.  Also big money spent on it. 

 

It's not just the "chaff" here that will have a difficult time in the future due to a looming global recession. 

 

 

According to facebook page the beach club in treetown is only closed for upgrades.

 

The weird thing about it is the VIP seating is recessed into the ground so when you are served people's feet are at your head level ????. In Thailand you would do the opposite, important people sit higher, not lower.

 

I always thought that was very funny, like he did not know what he was doing, or knew zip about the culture.

Edited September 12, 2022 by JimTripper

[Leaver]

On 9/9/2022 at 4:39 PM, kinyara said:

As per usual you're speculating and kicking the can down the road ignoring the reality of the here and now because it doesn't suit your narrative. Thailand is flexible enough to act quickly when required as we have just seen with the lengthening of tourist visa exempt/visa on arrivals for the high season, Vietnam is still a rigid bureaucratic communist state which lags behind on a basic issue like this. Have they done anything visa wise to incentivise tourism yet post Covid ?

 

I have no skin in the game in either country, thus, no narrative.  No property, business, relationship etc.  I am just calling it as I see it.

 

Perhaps you have been in Thailand too long, and can't see past the "here and now" and the money in the hand today, and forget about tomorrow Thai attitude.

 

Vietnam only opened its borders around 1990.  Since then, it has been building its tourism infrastructure, but it's been the last 5 years, including covid years, that they have really accelerated construction. 

 

I have posted many links to some of the projects there, including the world record breaking cable car. 

 

So, a supposed poorer country, who is now directly competing with Thailand for tourism, builds a world record breaking transport option for international and domestic tourists, whilst Thailand continues to build nothing, and you don't see a pattern emerging for things to come "down the road?" 

 

As I have said before, in many ways Thailand reminds me of the Nokia phone company.  Nokia had a huge market share, but ultimately went broke because they did not invest in research and development.

 

I have asked this question before, yet to receive a reply, from any member.  "What has Thailand built in recent years for the benefit of their tourism industry and the tourists?" 

 

Even if Thailand is flexible to act quickly, in order to compete, Vietnam has already built it, and reaping the rewards, whilst "flexible Thailand" plays catch up, when they should have been leading from the start.  Another example of this is casinos.  Already built in Vietnam, whilst casinos are nowhere near any political discussion in Thailand.  How many millions of dollars do high roller Chinese gamblers hand over to Vietnam, whilst Thailand doesn't compete for this market? 

 

Another example is in the next few years, Vietnam will have more airports, including international airports, than Thailand.  I have posted a link for this previously.  Once again, Thailand not building.

 

I haven't been back to Vietnam since before covid, but I am in frequent contact with friends there.  I will visit Vietnam before the end of the year. 

 

You are correct, currently, Vietnam's visa system is not as generous as Thailand's, but I have been told that may change in the near future. 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 9/9/2022 at 8:59 AM, Olmate said:

 LOL

Not knewbie.? Just rubbish then!!

 

 

Have you actually got any content to post? 

 

Let me guess, you have a lot of skin in the game here.  ????

[Leaver]

On 9/12/2022 at 3:05 AM, JimTripper said:

According to facebook page the beach club in treetown is only closed for upgrades.

 

The weird thing about it is the VIP seating is recessed into the ground so when you are served people's feet are at your head level ????. In Thailand you would do the opposite, important people sit higher, not lower.

 

I always thought that was very funny, like he did not know what he was doing, or knew zip about the culture.

 

I've heard the same, which surprised me, because it's a recent build. 

 

I did not know the seating was the issue for the type of customers the place attracted.

[kinyara]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I have no skin in the game in either country, thus, no narrative.  No property, business, relationship etc.  I am just calling it as I see it.

 

Perhaps you have been in Thailand too long, and can't see past the "here and now" and the money in the hand today, and forget about tomorrow Thai attitude.

 

Vietnam only opened its borders around 1990.  Since then, it has been building its tourism infrastructure, but it's been the last 5 years, including covid years, that they have really accelerated construction. 

 

I have posted many links to some of the projects there, including the world record breaking cable car. 

 

So, a supposed poorer country, who is now directly competing with Thailand for tourism, builds a world record breaking transport option for international and domestic tourists, whilst Thailand continues to build nothing, and you don't see a pattern emerging for things to come "down the road?" 

 

As I have said before, in many ways Thailand reminds me of the Nokia phone company.  Nokia had a huge market share, but ultimately went broke because they did not invest in research and development.

 

I have asked this question before, yet to receive a reply, from any member.  "What has Thailand built in recent years for the benefit of their tourism industry and the tourists?" 

 

Even if Thailand is flexible to act quickly, in order to compete, Vietnam has already built it, and reaping the rewards, whilst "flexible Thailand" plays catch up, when they should have been leading from the start.  Another example of this is casinos.  Already built in Vietnam, whilst casinos are nowhere near any political discussion in Thailand.  How many millions of dollars do high roller Chinese gamblers hand over to Vietnam, whilst Thailand doesn't compete for this market? 

 

Another example is in the next few years, Vietnam will have more airports, including international airports, than Thailand.  I have posted a link for this previously.  Once again, Thailand not building.

 

I haven't been back to Vietnam since before covid, but I am in frequent contact with friends there.  I will visit Vietnam before the end of the year. 

 

You are correct, currently, Vietnam's visa system is not as generous as Thailand's, but I have been told that may change in the near future. 

 

 

So no action yet on improving the visa situation thanks for confirming, build it but they can't come must be their current thinking.

 

Thailand isn't lacking in airports, where exactly does Thailand need a new airport ?

 

Who wants to see building and further development on Thailand's island locations, people go there to get away from the over development that ruins so many places. Chinatown Bangkok is a major tourist earner and 2 new MRT stations were opened in the recent past which helps get more tourists into the heart of the area, billions spent.

 

As far as your mobile phone analogy, Vietnam is very much Huawei - cheap, budget orientated model appealing to Chinese and Taiwanese, it's own little store of newly developed sub par rather tacky apps, that just doesn't have the global appeal of the regional leader Thailand. I'd argue Apple hasn't innovated much in recent years but as market leader its core platform retains a loyal repeat customer base as well as increasing new customers despite its already huge market share.

 

I check out the Vietnam section of the forum periodically, it's absolutely dead.

 

[JimTripper]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I've heard the same, which surprised me, because it's a recent build. 

 

I did not know the seating was the issue for the type of customers the place attracted.

It definately seems like the kind of place that would attract someone asking for a lot of tea money. We have an over the top kind of place that attracts a lot of attention in a prime area and a new owner who seems to not know much about the culture.

 

Recipe for disaster imo. What he wants to do is open a smaller well run place that works and not stand out like a sore thumb.

 

So if your naive it does matter and ends up not working because your in a country surrounded by people who think it's dumb. The seating I mentioned was a sign of a future problem with the bar and it's success.

Edited September 13, 2022 by JimTripper

[Leaver]

 

On 9/13/2022 at 9:28 AM, kinyara said:

So no action yet on improving the visa situation thanks for confirming, build it but they can't come must be their current thinking.

 

Vietnam has a list of 25 countries that receive visa exemption free entry from 14 days to 90 days, with most western countries in that list receiving 15 days. 

 

If not in that list, or a tourists would like more time, there is a 30 day online eVisa for$25USD. 

 

Currently, there is nothing for expats, unless married, or working. However, I thought we were focusing on tourists and tourism, not expats.

 

On 9/13/2022 at 9:28 AM, kinyara said:

Thailand isn't lacking in airports, where exactly does Thailand need a new airport ?

 

Simply saying, Vietnam will have more international airports than Thailand in the future, thus, no long taxi rides to your final destination.  Eg.  Bangkok to Pattaya, with Pattaya not having a commercial airport nearby. 

 

This means less immigration queues as the tourists are spread over more airports, shorter commute times for tourists, thus, a more pleasant experience for tourists. 

 

What has Thailand built to transport millions of tourists from Bangkok to Pattaya?  They have only had decades to build something, yet, nothing done.  There's the flying pig mono-rail that is talked about every few years. 

 

See the "Nokia" pattern emerging? 

 

On 9/13/2022 at 9:28 AM, kinyara said:

Who wants to see building and further development on Thailand's island locations, people go there to get away from the over development that ruins so many places. Chinatown Bangkok is a major tourist earner and 2 new MRT stations were opened in the recent past which helps get more tourists into the heart of the area, billions spent.

 

As far as your mobile phone analogy, Vietnam is very much Huawei - cheap, budget orientated model appealing to Chinese and Taiwanese, it's own little store of newly developed sub par rather tacky apps, that just doesn't have the global appeal of the regional leader Thailand. I'd argue Apple hasn't innovated much in recent years but as market leader its core platform retains a loyal repeat customer base as well as increasing new customers despite its already huge market share.

 

It's all about the type of building and development that is taking place.

 

Vietnam is building infrastructure to cater for tourists and their tourism industry, Thailand is not. 

 

It's not so much about developing vacant land into hotels.  Vietnam already has many 5 Star hotels and resorts.  It's about what they are building to cater for a tourist a soon as that tourist steps out of their hotel or resort.  Eg. decent sidewalks.  ????  

 

As far as Vietnam being a cheap budget orientated model, the below is certainly not an example of that, especially as Thailand doesn't even offer casinos.

 

https://thegrandhotram.com

 

As previously posted, yet another example.  They are building super yachts for UNESCO Ha Long Bay.   Are these super yachts "a cheap budget orientated model."   

 

https://maritime-executive.com/article/two-luxury-superyacht-cruise-ships-building-for-vietnam

 

Once again, "What has Thailand built in recent years for the benefit of their tourism industry and the tourists?" 

 

 

 

[Leaver]

On 9/13/2022 at 4:18 PM, JimTripper said:

It definately seems like the kind of place that would attract someone asking for a lot of tea money. We have an over the top kind of place that attracts a lot of attention in a prime area and a new owner who seems to not know much about the culture.

 

Recipe for disaster imo. What he wants to do is open a smaller well run place that works and not stand out like a sore thumb.

 

So if your naive it does matter and ends up not working because your in a country surrounded by people who think it's dumb. The seating I mentioned was a sign of a future problem with the bar and it's success.

 

I thought that place was Thai owned. 

[Leaver]

 

The restaurant across the road from Triangle Bar has closed.

 

It had been there for years, and survived covid, but closed. 

[scubascuba3]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

The restaurant across the road from Triangle Bar has closed.

 

It had been there for years, and survived covid, but closed. 

Triangle used to get their food from there

[kinyara]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

 

Vietnam has a list of 25 countries that receive visa exemption free entry from 14 days to 90 days, with most western countries in that list receiving 15 days. 

 

If not in that list, or a tourists would like more time, there is a 30 day online eVisa for$25USD. 

 

Currently, there is nothing for expats, unless married, or working. However, I thought we were focusing on tourists and tourism, not expats.

 

 

Simply saying, Vietnam will have more international airports than Thailand in the future, thus, no long taxi rides to your final destination.  Eg.  Bangkok to Pattaya, with Pattaya not having a commercial airport nearby. 

 

This means less immigration queues as the tourists are spread over more airports, shorter commute times for tourists, thus, a more pleasant experience for tourists. 

 

What has Thailand built to transport millions of tourists from Bangkok to Pattaya?  They have only had decades to build something, yet, nothing done.  There's the flying pig mono-rail that is talked about every few years. 

 

See the "Nokia" pattern emerging? 

 

 

It's all about the type of building and development that is taking place.

 

Vietnam is building infrastructure to cater for tourists and their tourism industry, Thailand is not. 

 

It's not so much about developing vacant land into hotels.  Vietnam already has many 5 Star hotels and resorts.  It's about what they are building to cater for a tourist a soon as that tourist steps out of their hotel or resort.  Eg. decent sidewalks.  ????  

 

As far as Vietnam being a cheap budget orientated model, the below is certainly not an example of that, especially as Thailand doesn't even offer casinos.

 

https://thegrandhotram.com

 

As previously posted, yet another example.  They are building super yachts for UNESCO Ha Long Bay.   Are these super yachts "a cheap budget orientated model."   

 

https://maritime-executive.com/article/two-luxury-superyacht-cruise-ships-building-for-vietnam

 

Once again, "What has Thailand built in recent years for the benefit of their tourism industry and the tourists?" 

 

 

 

Columbia Pictures Aquaverse Theme Park is due to open next month. ????.  - from the press release, " Sony Pictures Entertainment and Amazon Falls have confirmed that the world's first fully branded Columbia Pictures movie them park will open in Thailand ( Bang Saray ) on October 12 ,2022 ".  

 

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Triangle used to get their food from there

Triangle bar seemed to be full of freelancers last time I went in.

 

I am not sure that I liked the change in dynamic.

[hotandsticky]

21 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Columbia Pictures Aquaverse Theme Park is due to open next month. ????.  - from the press release, " Sony Pictures Entertainment and Amazon Falls have confirmed that the world's first fully branded Columbia Pictures movie them park will open in Thailand ( Bang Saray ) on October 12 ,2022 ".  

 

There was a “pre-opening”on 4th September.

[Leaver]

24 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Columbia Pictures Aquaverse Theme Park is due to open next month. ????.  - from the press release, " Sony Pictures Entertainment and Amazon Falls have confirmed that the world's first fully branded Columbia Pictures movie them park will open in Thailand ( Bang Saray ) on October 12 ,2022 ".  

 

 

I posted two examples of high end construction by private / public listed companies in response to your "cheap, budget orientated model" when describing tourism in Vietnam.  The examples I posted are anything but "cheap and budget."  

 

You have listed some projects by private / public list companies.

 

What's the Thai government built to benefit tourism and their tourism industry in recent years? 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Leaver

[kinyara]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I posted two examples of high end construction by private / public listed companies in response to your "cheap, budget orientated model" when describing tourism in Vietnam.  The examples I posted are anything but "cheap and budget."  

 

You have listed some projects by private / public list companies.

 

What's the Thai government built to benefit tourism and their tourism industry in recent years? 

 

I gave you transport examples improving access to the most popular tourist area in Bangkok, for some reason you are choosing to ignore it. I didn't mention the new Bang Sue Grand Station, which is now the largest railway station is South East Asia which will lead to the linking of Don Muang, Suvarnabunmi and U-Tapao airports.

 

I won't derail the thread further, the tourist recovery numbers relative to the competition speak for themselves.

[scubascuba3]

28 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Triangle bar seemed to be full of freelancers last time I went in.

 

I am not sure that I liked the change in dynamic.

It's definitely a freelancer bar, I don't like it either way, but many do

[champers]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's definitely a freelancer bar, I don't like it either way, but many do

Ex Bamboo Bar regulars, according to one YT vlogger, so they may move on to the new Bamboo Bar opening next week.

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, champers said:

Ex Bamboo Bar regulars, according to one YT vlogger, so they may move on to the new Bamboo Bar opening next week.

Any connection with the old bamboo? where is it?

[PJ71]

On 9/13/2022 at 5:15 AM, Leaver said:

 

I have no skin in the game in either country, thus, no narrative.  No property, business, relationship etc.  I am just calling it as I see it.

 

Perhaps you have been in Thailand too long, and can't see past the "here and now" and the money in the hand today, and forget about tomorrow Thai attitude.

 

Vietnam only opened its borders around 1990.  Since then, it has been building its tourism infrastructure, but it's been the last 5 years, including covid years, that they have really accelerated construction. 

 

I have posted many links to some of the projects there, including the world record breaking cable car. 

 

So, a supposed poorer country, who is now directly competing with Thailand for tourism, builds a world record breaking transport option for international and domestic tourists, whilst Thailand continues to build nothing, and you don't see a pattern emerging for things to come "down the road?" 

 

As I have said before, in many ways Thailand reminds me of the Nokia phone company.  Nokia had a huge market share, but ultimately went broke because they did not invest in research and development.

 

I have asked this question before, yet to receive a reply, from any member.  "What has Thailand built in recent years for the benefit of their tourism industry and the tourists?" 

 

Even if Thailand is flexible to act quickly, in order to compete, Vietnam has already built it, and reaping the rewards, whilst "flexible Thailand" plays catch up, when they should have been leading from the start.  Another example of this is casinos.  Already built in Vietnam, whilst casinos are nowhere near any political discussion in Thailand.  How many millions of dollars do high roller Chinese gamblers hand over to Vietnam, whilst Thailand doesn't compete for this market? 

 

Another example is in the next few years, Vietnam will have more airports, including international airports, than Thailand.  I have posted a link for this previously.  Once again, Thailand not building.

 

I haven't been back to Vietnam since before covid, but I am in frequent contact with friends there.  I will visit Vietnam before the end of the year. 

 

You are correct, currently, Vietnam's visa system is not as generous as Thailand's, but I have been told that may change in the near future. 

 

 

Why don't you move to VN if it's so good?

 

Not enough boy bars for you?

[champers]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Any connection with the old bamboo? where is it?

On Beach Rd opposite Beer Garden. It opens 23rd this month, next Friday.

Presumably, all will be revealed then.

[aussiexpat]

Given the thread title of "is your favourite bar closure imminent" I haven't seen anything mentioned here for over 18 months (Leaver posting random bar sales to bump the thread dont count)

 

Who's "favourite bar" is still not open now after a once in century worldwide virus event?

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by aussiexpat

[aussiexpat]

Further to above, which @Leaver favourite bar is no longer open bringing you sadness 

[aussiexpat]

If Leaver can't name any of his "favourite bars" (not any random bars he keeps posting) that are no longer open since last 3 years since starting thread, maybe this thread is done?

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by aussiexpat

[PJ71]

2 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

If Leaver can't name any of his "favourite bars" (not any random bars he keeps posting) that are no longer open since last 3 years since starting thread, maybe this thread is done?

 

Yay!

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, kinyara said:

I gave you transport examples improving access to the most popular tourist area in Bangkok, for some reason you are choosing to ignore it. I didn't mention the new Bang Sue Grand Station, which is now the largest railway station is South East Asia which will lead to the linking of Don Muang, Suvarnabunmi and U-Tapao airports.

 

I won't derail the thread further, the tourist recovery numbers relative to the competition speak for themselves.

 

So a two new MRT stations in Bangkok is keeping up with the competition.  Seriously?

 

When will it lead to "the linking of Don Muang, Suvarnabunmi and U-Tapao airports?"  They have only had decades.

 

Whilst a little off topic, it's on topic in the fact that Thailand's competition is building it bigger and better, while Thailand continues to do nothing.

 

Thai authorities think the saying "Build it and they will come" isn't applicable to Thailand.  They believe "Thailand is Thailand, they will just keep coming anyway." 

 

Dirty beaches and ocean water, failing infrastructure, higher prices for F & B, lack of safety, and the same old Thai scams will find it hard to compete into the future, thus, more closures ahead. 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Leaver

[Leaver]

8 hours ago, PJ71 said:

Why don't you move to VN if it's so good?

 

Firstly, we are talking about tourists, and tourism. 

 

I have admitted I am in Pattaya for the adult nightlife.  There's nowhere else in the world that comes close to Pattaya for this. 

 

Families and couples, on the other hand, just may chose Vietnam over Thailand in the future, for reasons I have already posted.

 

You've probably never even been to Vietnam.

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

Given the thread title of "is your favourite bar closure imminent" I haven't seen anything mentioned here for over 18 months (Leaver posting random bar sales to bump the thread dont count)

 

Who's "favourite bar" is still not open now after a once in century worldwide virus event?

 

 

I started the thread way before covid, Things weren't great for business here even before covid. 

 

I posted recently of the club in the middle of Tree Town that's closed.  It wasn't one of my favorite places, but it may have been someone else's.

 

Posted just today of the closure of the restaurant across the road from Triangle Bar.  Been there for years, closed now. 

 

See all the for sale signs around?  What do you think eventually happens when a buyer can't be found?

 

 

 

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

Further to above, which @Leaver favourite bar is no longer open bringing you sadness 

 

The last favorite bar of mine that closed was Retox.   I can get cold beer and sport elsewhere.

 

Tequila Reef restaurant was not so easily replaceable. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Leaver