Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[Pib]

31 minutes ago, SANSAI said:

I entered Thailand on a NON IMM O-A visa 10 years ago and have been using extensions of stay based on retirement ever since. My next extension is due 21/5/2020. Is it possible to change to an extension of stay based on marriage to a Thai in order to avoid the health insurance requirement. An agent in Chiang Mai told me that CM immigration said it was possible, I am just wondering if anyone else has any information regarding this.

Each year when you been going to immigration to renew your extension of stay you have been doing it based on retirement.....that is, getting a retirement extension of stay.   You've been doing the same thing as me...I entered on an O-A Visa 11 years ago and each year since I have been renewing my extension of stay based on retirement.  Although I have a Thai wife I've just been going the retirement extension of stay route due to simplicity although the income requirements are higher.

 

Now if I wanted to, I could renew my annual extension of stay "based on marriage" instead of retirement if I desired.  Whether the original visa was a Non-OA or Non-O makes no difference....you can do a marriage extension of stay on either.

 

However for the purposes of "is insurance required or not" it could turn out that even with marriage extension of stay if your visa of Christmas past is an OA then insurance could be required because the underpinning old OA visa may be the factor that solely determines the insurance requirement.   I say that because it seems numerous people have been told that when they contact their local immigration office that if you have a OA visa from Christmas past that you two options that are get a non-O or say goodbye to Thailand.   

 

Now it does "not" mention OA visa in the current marriage extension of stay police order area and I'm hoping it stays that way.   

 

 

[Martyp]

5 minutes ago, Chiller said:

Can someone please confirm if obtaining an extension of stay within Thailand based on an O-A Visa either requires money in a Thai bank account or not?

Yes it does. I just got my 2nd extension of stay in Bangkok on October 7th using the 800,000k method. There is also a monthly income method.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Martyp

[whitemouse]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well then good luck to any applicants encountering a "wrong" officer.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

IO will  know nothing, but will make it as difficult as possible for person applying for  extension. IO will interpret this law as he pleases, knowing there is no appeal, no recourse. They do this already, they are not our friends, guiding people through the process, trying to be helpful. Now they are given a new weapon, anyone who thinks they won't use it for the goodness of their heart is naive, or in denial.

[rumak]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

It can be different from officer to officer in the same office. 

 

Or even same officer, same office, depending the mood of the officer. 

it is frustrating.   At least here on TV you can always be sure that a member will always repeat the same

thing over and over.  Consistency !  Now thats what I like 

[FarFlungFalang]

Might as well go back to doing border runs.Don't need money in bank don't need insurance don't need umpteen misinterpreted rules made up by misinformed IO's.It's so simple.

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, Chiller said:

Can someone please confirm if obtaining an extension of stay within Thailand based on an O-A Visa either requires money in a Thai bank account or not?

In depends on where your home country embassy still provides income letters/affidavits which basically validates you have the required income/savings.  If your embassy provides such then you do not need to have a penny in a Thai bank nor show proof of periodic transfers into Thailand.  

 

The UK/UK/AU and I think Danish embassies stopped insuring such letters late last year.  So, for those nationalities which can not get an embassy income letter they must show proof of required funds in a Thai bank amounting to at least Bt800K or monthly transfers of at least Bt65K.  But some immigration offices will accept a "combo" method of money in a Thai bank plus monthly transfer as long as those two equal Bt800K per year.

[lupin]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

Each year when you been going to immigration to renew your extension of stay you have been doing it based on retirement.....that is, getting a retirement extension of stay.   You've been doing the same thing as me...I entered on an O-A Visa 11 years ago and each year since I have been renewing my extension of stay based on retirement.  Although I have a Thai wife I've just been going the retirement extension of stay route due to simplicity although the income requirements are higher.

 

Now if I wanted to, I could renew my annual extension of stay "based on marriage" instead of retirement if I desired.  Whether the original visa was a Non-OA or Non-O makes no difference....you can do a marriage extension of stay on either.

 

However for the purposes of "is insurance required or not" it could turn out that even with marriage extension of stay if your visa of Christmas past is an OA then insurance could be required because the underpinning old OA visa may be the factor that solely determines the insurance requirement.   I say that because it seems numerous people have been told that when they contact their local immigration office that if you have a OA visa from Christmas past that you two options that are get a non-O or say goodbye to Thailand.   

 

Now it does "not" mention OA visa in the current marriage extension of stay police order area and I'm hoping it stays that way.   

 

 

I think for this point to hold any water... it'd have to be based on NON O and its sub class... not all other long stay extensions of other classes, just wanted to make that distinction.

[whitemouse]

2 hours ago, digger70 said:

They still haven't cottoned on like  most countries use Computer data so one doesn't need a box full of paper to get something done at Immigration 

 

There is a reason for this, work force is computer illiterate, developers do not exist here, every online form is an example. Banks and online retailers outsource their data management, notice how efficient  online banking is here, how well Lazada runs, and how disastrous everything else gov run is. In order to switch from paper to computerized data management, they would need new education system, and that will never happen.

[Chiller]

7 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Yes it does. I just got my 2nd extension of stay in Bangkok on October 7th using the 800,000k method. There is also a monthly income method.

In which case maybe it is only the intention to require new applicants to have insurance cover for the duration of the actual O-A Visa. Those then extending through retirement or marriage will have the qualifying funds in Thailand which may be used for medical expenses. Therefore they are in exactly the same position as those seeking extensions based on Non Imm O Visa's who are not currently required to be insured?!

[lupin]

3 minutes ago, Chiller said:

In which case maybe it is only the intention to require new applicants to have insurance cover for the duration of the actual O-A Visa. Those then extending through retirement or marriage will have the qualifying funds in Thailand which may be used for medical expenses. Therefore they are in exactly the same position as those seeking extensions based on Non Imm O Visa's who are not currently required to be insured?!

then you would need to explain the OX visa.... which is obtained OUTSIDE Thailand, requires 3 million in THAI bank before application AND requires the same health insurance requirements as the OA

[deej]

55 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OA extensions will be subject to insurance It's certainly true that we won't know if they actually carry through with that until later.

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At last .

The penny has dropped .

and you are now . agreeing 

that present Retirement Extensions are acceptable without Medical Insurances etc etc

until a Immgr Police Dept order  is  given   to the contrary 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by deej

[Don Mega]

4 minutes ago, lupin said:

then you would need to explain the OX visa.... which is obtained OUTSIDE Thailand, requires 3 million in THAI bank before application AND requires the same health insurance requirements as the OA

Non immi O-X aint a non immi O.

 

what needs to be explained ?

[Martyp]

7 minutes ago, Chiller said:

In which case maybe it is only the intention to require new applicants to have insurance cover for the duration of the actual O-A Visa. Those then extending through retirement or marriage will have the qualifying funds in Thailand which may be used for medical expenses. Therefore they are in exactly the same position as those seeking extensions based on Non Imm O Visa's who are not currently required to be insured?!

I don’t think there is any connection between the financial requirements and the insurance requirement. As someone else pointed out, the financial requirements I had to meet are only true for the few nationalities That can no longer get income verification letters from their Consulates (I’m an American). 

[whitemouse]

3 hours ago, lkv said:

Ret ext no financials ~15 k

Ret ext no financials, no insurance ~xx k

 

To simplify things.

 

For more information, contact an agent near you.

The way it looks now, agents may be useless, this time.

Look at last couple of years, everything is designed to get foreigners, especially Westerners out. 

The money in the bank, strictly enforced, before AND after extension is granted.

No more letters from Embassies accepted, notice how Embassies they selected happen to be of countries where most expats come from.

TM30, I live in Pattaya, going to Bangkok for a weekend requires me to visit Bangkok immigration. Regulation designed to harrass, no other possible reason.

Western tourist with valid visas denied entry, deported, using false reasons (lack of money). As if a Westerners does not have 500€ in a bank. Coincidentally, traveller is not allowed to use ATM, this is not toughtlessness, this is the intended effect, it is designed to kick Westerners out.

Anyone who believes this insurance requirement affects only O-A is kidding themselves. Thailand is culling the herd of Westerners, it is so obvious, how can anyone not see it?

[lupin]

2 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Non immi O-X aint a non immi O.

 

what needs to be explained ?

You miss the point... the argument was that health insurance was required on the OA and NOT extensions because those extensions required money in thai bank.

The OX requires both the funds in thai bank and the insurance... so the idea that the extensions dont need insurance only because of money in thai bank is questionable.

[Pilotman]

3 hours ago, domdom said:

Hello

Anybody has a rough idea of the cost of those insurances ?? I pay an insurance in my home country and won t cancel it.. so I imagine I will have to go from here if this second insurance is expensive..

Another thing they don t point out is the fact that those insurances won t cover for a lot of preexisting pathologies.. so, what will they do against that as your major chances are to be in hospital for preexsiting pathologies.. for which the hospital won t get a cent from the insurance..

Have a nice evening..

for someone of my age, unaffordable. 

[Jingthing]

At last .
The penny has dropped .
and you are now . agreeing 
that present Retirement Extensions are acceptable without Medical Insurances etc etc
until a Immgr Police Dept order  is  given   to the contrary 
 
 
 

You're playing games that don't interest me. Bye.

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[Don Mega]

4 minutes ago, lupin said:

You miss the point... the argument was that health insurance was required on the OA and NOT extensions because those extensions required money in thai bank.

The OX requires both the funds in thai bank and the insurance... so the idea that the extensions dont need insurance only because of money in thai bank is questionable.

The O-X visa is an extension ?

[lupin]

Just now, Don Mega said:

The O-X visa is an extension ?

Of course not. forget it

[Thaidream]

44 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

 

But then again, nothing here makes sense.

It makes peerfect sense if you are Thai.  The insurance  issue is a  pilot project to see what affect this policy has on numbers of O-A Visas issued; how it may or will not  reduce debt to hospitals and how the long stayers will respond.

 

The fact is it applies only to the O-A Visa which is issued in your home country- the Police Order in both Thai and English states applies only to holders of O-A Visa issued after 31 October 2019.

 

The powers that be may want to apply it to all extensions but as of 31 Oct 2019 it applies only to Non O-A.  

 

Various Immigration offices may initeially start to interpret the order as applying to all Non OA issued  in the past. This happened when the last police order was published re income and money in the bank issues but eventually was sorted.  I expect the same problems will occur.

 

If my extension was due soon- I would print out the new Police Order in English and Thai and annotate the Thai  sections that apply.  As  Sheryl and Ubon Joe have stated-  one can certainly question an errant IO- be polite and present evidence. If problems- ask for the Supervisor or Section Chief.  

[Don Mega]

3 minutes ago, lupin said:

Of course not.

What are you dribbling about then ?

[Gweiloman]

I think all these stems from the fact that immigration has been too kind all these years in allowing foreigners to stay long term here in Thailand. They have tried to cater to many different circumstances, proof of funds overseas, embassy letters, monthly transfer of funds etc.
To keep it simple, they should have just insisted on a certain amount of funds to be brought into and kept in the country. Many other countries do it this way. The reason for having such funds in the country are to cover for emergencies and contingencies such as medical treatment, operations etc. If these funds were drawn upon, subsequent extensions of stay would require that they be topped up.
Of course, some posters will argue that this is not fair and so on and so forth. Well, it is also not fair that I, in all likelihood, will not be able to settle in your country either, even though I may be a model citizen with sufficient funds to have a comfortable life in most countries.


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[Pib]

31 minutes ago, lupin said:

I think for this point to hold any water... it'd have to be based on NON O and its sub class... not all other long stay extensions of other classes, just wanted to make that distinction.

For a marriage "extension of stay" the underlying visa just needs to be a "non-immigrant" (a.k.a., non) category visa....such as non-O, non-OA, Non-B, Non-ED, etc.   The O, OA, B, ED represents the category of non immigration visa

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18

[lupin]

2 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

What are you dribbling about then ?

For god sake... forget about extension then ok?

 

The argument being made was that the OA visa needed health insurance because it did not need any money held in a Thai bank.....

I dont think we can suggest that because the OX visa requires health insurance and ALSO money in thai bank.

 

 

[deej]

52 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No. It was more than that.

 

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And may i asked 

What was that???

[Don Mega]

3 minutes ago, lupin said:

For god sake... forget about extension then ok?

 

The argument being made was that the OA visa needed health insurance because it did not need any money held in a Thai bank.....

I dont think we can suggest that because the OX visa requires health insurance and ALSO money in thai bank.

 

 

I thought the O-X has always needed money in the bank and health insurance.

[Gweiloman]

The way it looks now, agents may be useless, this time.

Look at last couple of years, everything is designed to get foreigners, especially Westerners out. 

The money in the bank, strictly enforced, before AND after extension is granted.

No more letters from Embassies accepted, notice how Embassies they selected happen to be of countries where most expats come from.

TM30, I live in Pattaya, going to Bangkok for a weekend requires me to visit Bangkok immigration. Regulation designed to harrass, no other possible reason.

Western tourist with valid visas denied entry, deported, using false reasons (lack of money). As if a Westerners does not have 500€ in a bank. Coincidentally, traveller is not allowed to use ATM, this is not toughtlessness, this is the intended effect, it is designed to kick Westerners out.

Anyone who believes this insurance requirement affects only O-A is kidding themselves. Thailand is culling the herd of Westerners, it is so obvious, how can anyone not see it?

If I’m not mistaken, Chonburi immigration does not require a TM30 report for out of province travel, only out of country.

On TV, we only hear of western tourists being denied entry. I don’t think Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese, Cambodian etc tourists are active in this forum.

Some westerners apparently don’t have €500 to their name. There is currently a thread about an overstayer. He and his mother combined don’t even have £800.

Finally, all nationalities face the same issues. You, as a Caucasian, are not as glorified as you like to think.

 

 

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[DrJack54]

Perhaps a mod could look at some of these poorly informed posts and consider this thread is in zombie zone. Nothing productive and speculative nonsense.

Edited October 17, 2019 by DrJack54

[Don Mega]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Perhaps a mod could look at some of these poorly informed posts and consider this thread is in zombie zone.

Yes many seem to come up for air and a dribble in between licking windows on the short bus.

[whitemouse]

14 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

It makes peerfect sense if you are Thai.  The insurance  issue is a  pilot project to see what affect this policy has on numbers of O-A Visas issued; how it may or will not  reduce debt to hospitals and how the long stayers will respond.

 

 

Reported yearly loss due to unpaid hospital bills is 100 Million THB.

 

 Think about that figure. I'm guessing, losses due to expired Aspirin jars in Thai hospital pharmacies amounts to more than 100 Mil THB. 

 

$3 Mil USD a year, this is pennies. You can't seriously believe it is about $3 Mil.