O/A visa and insurance experience today

[MeePeeMai]

7 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Do they issue Non-Immigrant O Visas in HCMC? I thought they're only issuing B,ED and O-A Visas.

I believe they do for one with a Thai family but I'm not sure about for over 50 / retirement.

[MeePeeMai]

11 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Do they issue Non-Immigrant O Visas in HCMC? I thought they're only issuing B,ED and O-A Visas.

Yes they do - http://www.thaiembassy.org/hochiminh/en/services/2886

[Max69xl]

4 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

I believe they do for one with a Thai family but I'm not sure about for over 50 / retirement.

Yes, you're correct. No Non-Immigrant O Visa based on retirement. But spouse,yes.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/hochiminh/en/services/2886/46902-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O"---Accompanying-Th.html

[saengd]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

8.5k is probably just to hold your hand and collate your docs. Not the 800k or 90 day reporting, maybe not include initial non imm O

I never expected for one second that would include the 800k, I have my own funds in my bank in Thailand and have had for over ten years.

 

No it doesn't include 90 day reporting but that's simple enough to do separately.

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, saengd said:

I never expected for one second that would include the 800k, I have my own funds in my bank in Thailand and have had for over ten years.

 

No it doesn't include 90 day reporting but that's simple enough to do separately.

So, what do you get for 8.5k? 

[Canuck50]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

In October several reliable members asked at CW and were told insurance is required.

 

In early November 1 person got an extension (OA as original visa) without any mention made of insurance.

 

Yesterday came this post on TVF  re CW

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1135872-insurance/

 

Those are the only reports I have seen but might have been others I didn't.

 

I suggest you go as far in advance as allowable, submit your usual documents and see what happens. If told you need insurance politely but firmly state you understand this note  to apply for extensions and see if you can meet a more senior person to discuss.

 

And report back what happens!

 

 

 

 

Yes, I will do so.

[Canuck50]

38 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If you meet the financial requirements, there's no problem starting all over again with a 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa from let's say Savannakhet in Laos. Just a bit of travelling. If using the money in the bank method, then it's even easier. See it as a short vacation. ????

If it comes to that for me (if rejected tomorrow at CW), do you happen to know if Savannakhet will accept my Canadian Consulate income letter instead of money in the bank method?

[saengd]

22 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

So, what do you get for 8.5k? 

Apparently there are two possible scenario's:

 

1) the agent approaches a senior agent and asks if their client can convert an existing O-A based on retirement, to an O visa based on marriage. If the officer agrees the conversion takes place, the 8.5k covers the cost of doing that and subsequently extending the new O visa for one year. 

 

2) the applicant leaves Thailand and returns with an O-visa, the agent then manages the process up to the same end point as step 1 above.

 

My preference is, obviously, step 1 but given my advanced years and my unfamiliarity  with the O marriage visa, I can live with an agent guiding me through step 2 if needs be.

Edited November 27, 2019 by saengd

[MeePeeMai]

2 minutes ago, Canuck50 said:

If it comes to that for me (if rejected tomorrow at CW), do you happen to know if Savannakhet will accept my Canadian Consulate income letter instead of money in the bank method?

Sorry my error

Edited November 27, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[Canuck50]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

Keep in mind, the insurance process may take about a week to get the copy of the policy and certificat, even if you are under 65 and dont require the physical, or in the case of Pacific Cross..even if you go in person to their office on Sathorn..according to Clarke, the English speaking agent.  Another company was offering more of an electronic based system..so yu can check around.  PC seems to be best for my neeeds at age mid 50s.

Thanks for your advice. But I absolutely refuse to be part of their insurance scam. I currently have US $5 million coverage from Canada and I would not consider buying their "required" policy which is inadequate and expensive as well as unneeded for me. If switching to an "O" was not an option, I would simply leave and slam the door behind me! I have many other options for places to live without the constant recurring drama that has occurred here over the last couple of years. 

[Sheryl]

OP

 

I neglected to mention but you should contact your Embassy as well with the details of your case. It is a rextbook example of what is wrong with the new tegs.

 

Embassy will not be able to directly intervene in your specific but they are in dialogue with the Thai government about this and the more first hand reports they get of cases lije yours where a foreign policy well in excess if the requirement is not accepted, the better. Often what they ate told by high level people does not match the reality on the ground and they need to hear of cases like yours.

[moontang]

3 minutes ago, Canuck50 said:

Thanks for your advice. But I absolutely refuse to be part of their insurance scam. I currently have US $5 million coverage from Canada and I would not consider buying their "required" policy which is inadequate and expensive as well as unneeded for me. If switching to an "O" was not an option, I would simply leave and slam the door behind me! I have many other options for places to live without the constant recurring drama that has occurred here over the last couple of years. 

If this is a supplement to your Canadian national system, you may consider what happens if they find out you are living abroad more than 180 days per year...Lots of Canadians in Vegas and Phoenix staying exactly half the year.  I have been using travel medical with a million in coverage USD, but it is not true health insurance.  Take the cost of the O trip and deduct that from what the high deductible plan costs, and consider the risk of them closing the O loophole.  That is exactly, what I did..

[Max69xl]

35 minutes ago, saengd said:

Apparently there are two possible scenario's:

 

1) the agent approaches a senior agent and asks if their client can convert an existing O-A based on retirement, to an O visa based on marriage. If the officer agrees the conversion takes place, the 8.5k covers the cost of doing that and subsequently extending the new O visa for one year. 

 

2) the applicant leaves Thailand and returns with an O-visa, the agent then manages the process up to the same end point as step 1 above.

 

My preference is, obviously, step 1 but given my advanced years and my unfamiliarity  with the O marriage visa, I can live with an agent guiding me through step 2 if needs be.

In my opinion, (I might be wrong) you can't convert an existing O-A Visa to a Non-Immigrant O for 8.5k.

It sounds way to cheap. 

[Canuck50]

6 minutes ago, moontang said:

If this is a supplement to your Canadian national system, you may consider what happens if they find out you are living abroad more than 180 days per year...Lots of Canadians in Vegas and Phoenix staying exactly half the year.  I have been using travel medical with a million in coverage USD, but it is not true health insurance.  Take the cost of the O trip and deduct that from what the high deductible plan costs, and consider the risk of them closing the O loophole.  That is exactly, what I did..

I am careful to be in Alberta for 5 months per year to keep my Provincial health coverage active. What I am talking about is extra travel insurance through Medipac with US $5 mil cover. It is not "true health insurance" in the sense of "stand alone" but It works fine to supplement my cover at home for the duration of time I spend in Thailand, which is not year round.

 

From everything I have read on here, I think it is inevitable the next step will be to go after the "O" people. If that happens I will be just one of many to be reducing or eliminating time spent here. As you suggest, I may look at the numbers but I have a huge block about caving into a scam such as this. It is fast becoming not worth all the roadblocks they keep throwing up.

 

If they don't like the OA Visa, because of the liberal benefits they provide during the pre-extension phase, they should just stop issuing them. Or at least apply the insurance requirement to the visa period and not the extensions. As I understand it the extension requirements are the same for a non-O as they are for a non-OA, so why penalize only the non-OA people. And again, if they are intent on eliminating the OA route, simply provide a migration path in-country from non-OA extension to non-O. They would still collect their fees but it would eliminate the need to travel out and back in to satisfy their change in requirements.

[Max69xl]

43 minutes ago, Canuck50 said:

If it comes to that for me (if rejected tomorrow at CW), do you happen to know if Savannakhet will accept my Canadian Consulate income letter instead of money in the bank method?

Yes, they will accept it. It's either money in the bank or 65k income/pension. 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/savannakhet/th/services/9736/106949-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O"-(For-the-purpose.html

[saengd]

5 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

In my opinion, (I might be wrong) you can't convert an existing O-A Visa to a Non-Immigrant O for 8.5k.

It sounds way to cheap. 

I'll let you know next week because that's the road I'm going to go down.

 

I'm pretty sure if I go ask Immi. if I can do this they will tell me no and that I must leave the country to cancel the existing visa, I prefer however not to ask too many leading questions, ignorance is bliss as they say.

[Max69xl]

34 minutes ago, moontang said:

If this is a supplement to your Canadian national system, you may consider what happens if they find out you are living abroad more than 180 days per year...Lots of Canadians in Vegas and Phoenix staying exactly half the year.  I have been using travel medical with a million in coverage USD, but it is not true health insurance.  Take the cost of the O trip and deduct that from what the high deductible plan costs, and consider the risk of them closing the O loophole.  That is exactly, what I did..

The Non-Immigrant O Visa with annual extensions is not a loophole, it's just another type of Visa with other requirements when applying for it. 

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, saengd said:

I'll let you know next week because that's the road I'm going to go down.

 

I'm pretty sure if I go ask Immi. if I can do this they will tell me no and that I must leave the country to cancel the existing visa, I prefer however not to ask too many leading questions, ignorance is bliss as they say.

I'd like to know the outcome. I have a friend in same situation. 

[Canuck50]

30 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

OP

 

I neglected to mention but you should contact your Embassy as well with the details of your case. It is a rextbook example of what is wrong with the new tegs.

 

Embassy will not be able to directly intervene in your specific but they are in dialogue with the Thai government about this and the more first hand reports they get of cases lije yours where a foreign policy well in excess if the requirement is not accepted, the better. Often what they ate told by high level people does not match the reality on the ground and they need to hear of cases like yours.

Sheryl, I maintain my Canadian Provincial health cover by residing there for the required 5 months per year. So the insurance I buy for Thailand is travel insurance for only the 7 months I am here. So they would have a hard time wrapping their collective heads around that and so if they did consider it, would likely only validate my extension for the remainder of this year;s cover. I'm more inclined to push for exclusion of the insurance requirement for OA extensions, the same as O extensions. Let them apply the insurance requirement only to the visa phase of the OA for those issued after Oct 2019, as I thought they had intended. 

[LivinLOS]

Direct report from imm officers at swampy today.. I have no 'proof' to post but you can make of this what you like, its how my questions were answered. 

I was entering with a non imm O and processing at the clearance desks to chiang mai, as it was empty and there were spare officers, after I was stamped my 90 days I tried to discuss the issue with the IO stamping the passport. Between her poor english and my poor Thai she didnt / or wouldnt grasp or discuss that this wasnt about my visa, which she said was a multiple when it was a single and generally didnt give me any confidence that any response from her was going to be worth anything. 

As you walk through this section theres a senior officer behind the processing desks and before the next x ray section. She had superb english was able to communicate and understand 100% however the conversation went like (from memory)

Me  :: Sawadee Khrap.. Excuse me, I have a question about the new OA visa rules (she reaches for my passport). No Sorry this isnt for my visa, it is for my friend coming soon. 

Her :: OK 

Me  :: You know which visa I mean, the OA visa, where you get 1 year entry ?

Her :: Yes, sure

Me  :: People are very confused about how the insurance requirement is to be applied, and people online are giving different reports. I hear even different airports are different. 

Her :: (friendly) Smile.. Yes it depends. 

Me  :: So what does it depend on ?? Do they need insurance to get a 1 year stamp. 

Her :: (slightly pained smile).. That depends. 

Me :: But depends on what.. 'my friend' needs to know and is arriving soon. 

Her :: It depends.. On many things

Me :: What things ??

Her :: Well... (extended pause) the issue date of the visa.

Me :: OK, so any visa issued before October 31st does not need insurance ?? 

Her :: Yes with old visa issued.. We dont need to see any insurance. 

Me :: OK that great, thank you thats clear.. But what about visas issued now, new visas ?? 

Her :: (Pained forced smile).. It depends. 

Me :: But depends on what... People have to know. 

Her :: (Clearly uncomfortable).. It depends.. 

Me :: So it just depends on the officer ?? 

Her :: Yes.. Depends on the officer.. 

Me :: (trying to be friendly and joking, with a big cheerful grin) So if they have a big smile and are friendly they get 1 year ?? 

Her :: (looking relieved and again happy smile) Yes. 

 

At that stage, I couldnt see any further questioning was going to have any other outcome. "it depends" was her primary response and she actually said that a big smile and friendly demeanor is what can gt a 1 year stamp !! 

 

Feel free to pick any holes or believe that isnt the conversation, I have no way to prove any of that to doubters, but thats how my questions were answered. 

 

 

 

 

[Mango Bob]

HCMC does not offer Non O for Retirement.  They do for Volunteering or Marriage.

[Sheryl]

Reassuring that they confirm pre Oct 31 does not need insurance at least.

[UKresonant]

46 minutes ago, Canuck50 said:

I may look at the numbers but I have a huge block about caving into a scam such as this.

Well said! I've not reached the stage of continuously staying in Thailand, but if they do migrate that to "O"s, unlikely I ever can.

The more people that buy the insurance, especially when actually providing cover is doubtful, makes it very very unlikely it could ever evolve into a system that could become useful for the applicant. No positive profit motive for change. 

(I'm not optimistic that the stated objective of avoiding unpaid hospital bills, will significantly improve by the introduction of their current concept). 

Edited November 27, 2019 by UKresonant

[sunnyboy2018]

On 11/17/2019 at 4:34 AM, GeorgeCross said:

 

NHS is free for UK citizens so no, not cheaper at all.

 

 

Not free! We pay for it via taxes!

[Peter Denis]

33 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Direct report from imm officers at swampy today.. I have no 'proof' to post but you can make of this what you like, its how my questions were answered. 

...

I don't doubt that was the actual conversation you had.

But slightly bewildered that the senior lady immigration officer was hesitant in her answers to these 2 simple questions.

While there are actually only 2 possibilities:

> the OA Visa was issued before Oct 31 - after initial bloopers and confusion, it is now quite clear from all reports that insurance is NOT required on entry/re-entry.

> the OA Visa was issued after Oct 31 - in that case the applicant must have shown proof of insurance to the thai embassy/consulate when applying for the OA Visa, as that is a hard requirement now,

MYSTERY >>> Why do immigration officers even bother asking about insurance on entry/re-entry for OA Visas?  It's not needed for pre Oct 31 issued OA Visas and post Oct 31 issued OA Visas have such insurance by default.

My guess is that the hesitation in her answers might have been due to the belated shame-factor that the IO organization to which she belongs has made such a mess of it.

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Peter Denis

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Not free! We pay for it via taxes!

So, you prefer paying for an insurance in the UK instead of getting it via taxes? I don't believe that. 

[Max69xl]

19 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

Well said! I've not reached the stage of continuously staying in Thailand, but if they do migrate that to "O"s, unlikely I ever can.

The more people that buy the insurance, especially when actually providing cover is doubtful, makes it very very unlikely it could ever evolve into a system that could become useful for the applicant. No positive profit motive for change. 

(I'm not optimistic that the stated objective of avoiding unpaid hospital bills, will significantly improve by the introduction of their current concept). 

As long as there are tourists coming without even a travel insurance there will be unpaid bills. Especially in Phuket. ~38% of tourists from the UK don't have any insurance what so ever.

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

Well said! I've not reached the stage of continuously staying in Thailand, but if they do migrate that to "O"s, unlikely I ever can.

The more people that buy the insurance, especially when actually providing cover is doubtful, makes it very very unlikely it could ever evolve into a system that could become useful for the applicant. No positive profit motive for change. 

(I'm not optimistic that the stated objective of avoiding unpaid hospital bills, will significantly improve by the introduction of their current concept). 

I am reasonably sure it will not. It may even worsen the problem by encouraging people to take out policies with insufficient coverage.

[el jefe]

There was a report a few weeks ago with a link to the Phuket newspaper where they quoted the head of Immigration there as saying the Phuket office would allow O-A holders to convert to O. It also said that 7 other provinces would do the same.
Are there any reports of anyone actually doing that conversion in country?

 

[moontang]

1 hour ago, Canuck50 said:

If it comes to that for me (if rejected tomorrow at CW), do you happen to know if Savannakhet will accept my Canadian Consulate income letter instead of money in the bank method?

for a Canadian snowbird, spending half the year in Canada, wouldn't a yearly METV, be the easiest solution?