Who will pay for water damage in condo?

[X4711]

A water pipe belonging to the common property broke and the water damaged the floor in my condo. Does anybody know who will be responsible for fixing and for paying the floor of my condo according to Thai law?

[RJRS1301]

Check your insurance policy to begin with, the juristic person should be able to tell you where the resposnsibilty lay. I would seek professional advice.

 

[X4711]

9 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Check your insurance policy to begin with, the juristic person should be able to tell you where the resposnsibilty lay. I would seek professional advice.

I know the laws in Germany for instance. Sadly I can't read Thai and so it is not easy to find out how this is in Thailand. But perhaps somebody had such a problem already and can share his experience. 

[Jingthing]

Has the condo already confirmed to you that the pipe is not associated with another unit? 

[X4711]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Has the condo already confirmed to you that the pipe is not associated with another unit? 

Yes. The pipe is common property. 

[Just Weird]

47 minutes ago, X4711 said:

A water pipe belonging to the common property broke and the water damaged the floor in my condo. Does anybody know who will be responsible for fixing and for paying the floor of my condo according to Thai law?

What did the Juristic Person say when you asked them that question?

[bkk6060]

Probably same as a traffic accident.

If you were not here it would not have happened.

So, your fault you will pay.

 

 

[X4711]

2 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

What did the Juristic Person say when you asked them that question?

So far they fixed the pipe only. We didn't discuss the problem of my condo yet. But it will happen the next days. Before I talk to them I would like to have some legal knowledge. This can make the discussion much easier. If by law I will have to pay for the damage in my condo then there is not much to discuss. 

[1FinickyOne]

43 minutes ago, X4711 said:

I know the laws in Germany for instance. Sadly I can't read Thai and so it is not easy to find out how this is in Thailand. But perhaps somebody had such a problem already and can share his experience. 

Just ask... they will know what is going to happen or not... probably many buildings have different bylaws and you can find out what is the case for your specific building... I wouldn't worry so much about what happens in Germany... 

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, X4711 said:

I know the laws in Germany for instance. Sadly I can't read Thai and so it is not easy to find out how this is in Thailand. But perhaps somebody had such a problem already and can share his experience. 

You can read the act in english but its not that specific as to who pays for what damage etc. 

 

https://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/new-thailand-condominium-act-2008.html#9

 

Its probably more covered under the general civil and commercial act. If me or my property damages you or your property, I would be liable. My experience with a similar situation is the repair was done from condo fees, covered by the condo block insurance etc.  A burst water pipe (main downpipe from roof) burst and completely trashed a condo in my block and condo office paid for the repairs, new kitchen, wallpaper, curtains etc.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Peterw42

[Just Weird]

23 minutes ago, X4711 said:

32 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

What did the Juristic Person say when you asked them that question?

So far they fixed the pipe only. We didn't discuss the problem of my condo yet. But it will happen the next days. Before I talk to them I would like to have some legal knowledge. This can make the discussion much easier. If by law I will have to pay for the damage in my condo then there is not much to discuss. 

Sorry, but you will only get credible 'legal knowledge' from a lawyer, not Thaivisa posters.   That's just the way it is. 

 

If you're not the owner of the condo, take a look at your lease, that might answer the question.

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, X4711 said:

Does anybody know who will be responsible for fixing and for paying the floor of my condo according to Thai law?

take all your condo paperwork to a Thai attorney ASAP and get sound legal advice before you talk to condo association.  If it is a common area pipe then you are asking the people responsible for the damage who is responsible for the damage. Never do that in Thailand. Know your rights and start every sentence with "My attorney said..." 

 

water damage can be extensive and take months to show up.  

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by NCC1701A

[SteveK]

Here is a thick person's question:

 

What is a juristic person and how do you know who that person might be?

 

I have rented in Thailand before but luckily didn't have any issues, if someone could clarify this then maybe a lot of people could benefit.

[Puchaiyank]

Thai law will likely not protect you in this case.  To be sure condo owners and mgmt will try to stick you with the bill...

 

Be prepared to pay...

[X4711]

Below an example of the Canadian law. You might be very surprised. I was. But I still don't know the Thai law for my case. If you look at this Canadian example the law is not always what one would expect. Sadly I can't read Thai. Otherwise I might have found the answer already. 

 

https://www.canadianunderwriter.ca/insurance/condo-flooding-liability-101-1004162150/

[Peterw42]

12 hours ago, SteveK said:

Here is a thick person's question:

 

What is a juristic person and how do you know who that person might be?

 

I have rented in Thailand before but luckily didn't have any issues, if someone could clarify this then maybe a lot of people could benefit.

Juristic person isnt always actually a person, its the confusing name given to the collective entity that runs the condo block, it can be the collective committee and manager etc. In Australia the term would be the body corporate.

[newnative]

   If it is a common pipe--which it seems to be since the condo project fixed it--it should also be the condo project's responsibility to pay for any damage caused by the leak.  The project should have insurance to cover the cost of the repairs.  

[scorecard]

15 hours ago, X4711 said:

Yes. The pipe is common property. 

Then the condo building should have an insurance policy to cover this.  Suggest you ask about this at your condo office or even better spek to the niminated juritstic person who definitely should have a specific answer.

[Suradit69]

Not quite the same thing, but when the unit above the unit I owned

did renovation it caused water damage to my bathroom ceiling, the condo manager sent condo staff to repair and repaint my ceiling at no cost to me ... although I gave the workers a decent tip.

 

The manager did bring the owner of the other unit to my condo to see the damage before having it repaired, but I had no further interaction with the owner. It was all done without any ill feelings. Just one of those things that can happen unintentionally. No idea if they billed the owner of the unit being renovated.

 

 

[Thomas J]

18 hours ago, X4711 said:

A water pipe belonging to the common property broke and the water damaged the floor in my condo. Does anybody know who will be responsible for fixing and for paying the floor of my condo according to Thai law?

x4711  I don't know law in Thailand but in the USA it would be your insurance. You carry insurance on your unit in the event of damage irrespective of what caused the damage. 

[chilly07]

If the burst pipe is in common ownership then each owner should contribute proportionally to the repairs of all damages out of a sinking fund set up under the lease and to which all owners contribute a service charge adjusted at year end to cover any shortfall details of which should be set out in the lease or freehold covenant administered by the 'juristic person' or manager the accounts for which should be available to all owners

[chilly07]

Any insurance claim will include the right of subrogation against responsible parties as set out above

[roo860]

Condo insurance will cover it.

[elgenon]

18 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Just ask... they will know what is going to happen or not... probably many buildings have different bylaws and you can find out what is the case for your specific building... I wouldn't worry so much about what happens in Germany... 

 

[elgenon]

18 hours ago, X4711 said:

So far they fixed the pipe only. We didn't discuss the problem of my condo yet. But it will happen the next days. Before I talk to them I would like to have some legal knowledge. This can make the discussion much easier. If by law I will have to pay for the damage in my condo then there is not much to discuss. 

If they fixed the pipe it seems they are admitting they are responsible for damage. That is logical. As are the Thais. Huh?

[X4711]

48 minutes ago, elgenon said:

If they fixed the pipe it seems they are admitting they are responsible for damage. That is logical. As are the Thais. Huh?

I wished it would be that simple. But sadly it is not. Look at my example in post #15 from Canada. If I ever find out the correct Thai laws I will let you all know. To consult a lawyer I want to avoid. In the worst case I will give this problem to my insurance. They for sure have an interest not to pay anything if they don't have to. But I still have hope that this will not be necessary. The insurance might not renew my contract if they have to pay... 

[thailand49]

If you have the condo rules it should be right there! But from my experience here in Thailand many owners have no idea what they are nor care to find out when it comes time to buying. If it is in Thai, get it translated and if you are getting ready to buy get them and have them translated.

 

It isn't easy but with a real estate background even back home I could look at the rules, the meeting held how many show up the balance sheet each month and tell you whether you should buy or not but of course it isn't as easy as that many of the Condos are run to the ground and those aren't the budget are all out of whack indication too much is being spend on nothing?

 

So my opinion!  You say the problem is in the common area the pipe was fixed my concern you haven't brought it to the attention of the Condo, unless it is a easy and straight forward link you might get the run around. Usually some type of insurance is required for your own unit not sure about Thailand since nothing seem to be enforced? For example if I had a broken pipe in my bathroom above and it leaked and created damage to your unit below I would be responsible and make a claim for you but here in Thailand? 

 

How you push will determine your outcome?

[Max69xl]

21 hours ago, X4711 said:

I know the laws in Germany for instance. Sadly I can't read Thai and so it is not easy to find out how this is in Thailand. But perhaps somebody had such a problem already and can share his experience. 

A part of the ceiling in my living room caved in a year ago because of heavy raining and a leaking roof. I'm on the top floor. The condominium handy man took care of everything,cleaning up,fixing the ceiling,painting and they fixed the leaking roof. I've got a tile floor and no damages there. Some of my stuff got ruined and the amount I paid, I deducted from next rent after contacting the owner and emailing him the receipts. He then went to the office,(management) to get his money back. I'm not sure how it works in other condos but for me it worked out.

I have a hard time believing that the condominium management wouldn't fix a leaking pipe or a flooded condo for free. You didn't cause it. 

[Mattd]

2 hours ago, X4711 said:

In the worst case I will give this problem to my insurance. They for sure have an interest not to pay anything if they don't have to.

Ask the condo management if this damage will be paid for by the Condo insurance (which you all collectively pay for), in the absence of a response then go to your insurance company with a claim, they will bash it out with the condo management / condo insurance company.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, chilly07 said:

If the burst pipe is in common ownership then each owner should contribute proportionally to the repairs of all damages out of a sinking fund set up under the lease and to which all owners contribute a service charge adjusted at year end to cover any shortfall details of which should be set out in the lease or freehold covenant administered by the 'juristic person' or manager the accounts for which should be available to all owners

But it would also be prudent and sensible that the owners as a group have an insurance to cover damage to common areas etc, nobody can know in advance whether there could be a major water / electrical or whatever failure best covered by insurance. The premum would possibly be several tens of thousands of Baht but when divided by the number of units in the building wouldn't be that much. 

 

In the condo where I owned a unit on Phetburi Road there was suddenly a major failure with the pump and filter equipment for the 2 pools, cost a fortune to fix, luckily it was covered in the commn areas insurance. 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by scorecard