Nearly one in six Britons would refuse Covid-19 vaccine

[innosiem]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Oh yes I do, a bloke that walks on water.....????

above, you were not replying to my comment LOL

as for cancer there are quite obvious things you can do to minimize risk
but many people just choose to be ignorant so they can continue living their current lifestyle

[innosiem]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Are you going to stop taking Antibiotics and refuse hospital treatment ???? If you are strong enough you strong genes will continue?... 

 

Unless you have already procreated, in which case, whatever you choose to do bears no impact on the strengthening of the human species !!!! 

 

 

have not taken any meds or been in hospital for many many years
there is also a MASSIVE difference in unnecessary vaccination
compared to other medical practices

again, please do provide a source that states s strong immune system is pointless?
as that was the part of my comment you chose to ignore

to add to your comment
if i ever did have a life threatening condition such as cancer, i would refuse treatment.
but that is just me
everyone is free to choose what they do and i think no different of others who choose differently to myself

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by innosiem

[transam]

2 minutes ago, innosiem said:

above, you were not replying to my comment LOL

as for cancer there are quite obvious things you can do to minimize risk
but many people just choose to be ignorant so they can continue living their current lifestyle

I think you are living in cloud-cuckoo-land....Even children die of cancer, as well as a load of other causes, but you are immune to it all, wow....????

[innosiem]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

I think you are living in cloud-cuckoo-land....Even children die of cancer, as well as a load of other causes, but you are immune to it all, wow....????

congratulations, you managed to squeeze 3 logical fallacies into 1 sentence.

if you only got ad-homiens, strawmans or reductio ad absurdum 
don't bother

[transam]

1 minute ago, innosiem said:

have not taken any meds or been in hospital for many many years
there is also a MASSIVE difference in unnecessary vaccination
compared to other medical practices

again, please do provide a source that states s strong immune system is pointless?
as that was the part of my comment you chose to ignore

Think I was about 7, was marched off to a health centre, stuck in a queue with loads of other kids, Small Pox jab.

Polio and Tuberculosis jabs come to mind too. 

Before I came to LOS, Hepatitis jabs, I have also had Tetanus jab, I missed out on the Rabies one.

I assume you never had any of those...

[transam]

1 minute ago, innosiem said:

congratulations, you managed to squeeze 3 logical fallacies into 1 sentence.

if you only got ad-homiens, strawmans or reductio ad absurdum 
don't bother

What 3 fallacies...?

[innosiem]

Just now, transam said:

Think I was about 7, was marched off to a health centre, stuck in a queue with loads of other kids, Small Pox jab.

Polio and Tuberculosis jabs come to mind too. 

Before I came to LOS, Hepatitis jabs, I have also had Tetanus jab, I missed out on the Rabies one.

I assume you never had any of those...

had some jab when i was about 5 (before i knew better)
since then nope
before coming Thailand, nope

guess what still alive and kicking

[innosiem]

Just now, transam said:

What 3 fallacies...?

you are serious asking?
when i literally stated them in the same comment 

and no i don't care to continue this off topic convo
get back on point or don't bother
 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, innosiem said:

had some jab when i was about 5 (before i knew better)
since then nope
before coming Thailand, nope

guess what still alive and kicking

You're a chancer, which is OK, I never wore a crash helmet as a kid either....????

[innosiem]

Just now, transam said:

You're a chancer, which is OK, I never wore a crash helmet as a kid either....????

????
 

[Yinn]

12 minutes ago, innosiem said:

????
 

If thai government say foreigner must vax or get out, what will you do?

[innosiem]

3 minutes ago, Yinn said:

If thai government say foreigner must vax or get out, what will you do?

see the thread, already answered this question.????

why would they say "foreigner must vax" and not "everyone must vax" ?

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by innosiem

[Yinn]

Why foreigner must do TM30, 800,000 in the bank, 90 report etc? Because the rules.

 

i not see your answer. 

I think you will do it. 

You not want to infect elderly people right?

[innosiem]

8 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Why foreigner must do TM30, 800,000 in the bank, 90 report etc? Because the rules.

 

i not see your answer. 

I think you will do it. 

You not want to infect elderly people right?

visa regs are not the same as vaccines

why would vax only be mandatory for foreigner?
as YOU put it

my answer is i would leave, i would sell up everything,
buy my wife a 2nd passport and leave
do you think i would put Thailand before my own health? LOL
(i repeated myself, seeing as you are too lazy to research)

i will not be vaccinated.
do not think i am as mentally weak as yourself, and i would just cave in to conformity.

Now please can you answer my initial question properly?

don't worry, your xenophobia has already been expressed and noted????

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by innosiem

[robblok]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

I agree that a successful vaccination program involves the vast majority of people to become vaccinated and the herd effect takes care of eradicating a virus, or limiting its spread such that those who are unable to take the vaccine (for whatever reasons - complications etc) are protected. 

 

However, I am not thankful Thailand has a strong government, its a dictatorship and there are many wrongs and human rights abuses, Thailand has slipped down the rankings human rights list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Thailand)

 

I am very much for vaccination programs and believe them to be an effective tool in protecting society. 

I also believe in choice, but that freedom of choice should not come at the cost of the population - i.e. I don’t believe in the the freedom of someones choice to speed at 180kmh down the express way. 

 

In Western nations much of the freedom of choice involves education, people are educated and choose vaccination. This is where the Anti-Vaxxers come in with key words such as ’sheeple’, ‘Mainstream Media’ and bring up ‘control conspiracies’ - all rather paranoid and somewhat nutty.

 

That said, the protection of the population should not come at a price, and the ‘potential’ price of a vaccine rushed through testing and production is not yet known. 

 

 

 

In response to my comments a comparison may be drawn between how well western nations have performed through this Covid-19 crisis versus Thailand. I want to point out that the crisis is not over and this could play out over a few years. This is also a little different to ‘forcing’ a rushed vaccine on a population - I hope Thailand is smart enough not to do this and let people make their own choices.

 

I do note want to vaccinate my Son with a vaccine that may well have been rushed through. 

 

(Note: My family and I have had all other vaccinations and I’m happy about that, I am however sceptical of any Covid-19 Vaccine which is made available for the population within the next 18 months)

 

 

 

 

Thing is Richard i don't like the strong government normally.But these anti vaxers put everyone at risk. Their freedom should not come at the cost of others. 

 

Nobody wants a vaccin that is rushed and i can understand waiting a bit (within reason). But the anti vax people never want to take it risking others who are non responders or just cant have it because of medical reasons. 

 

Still they want to benefit from the opening of countries improved economy and less risk of infection. That in my eyes is totally selfish.

 

My country is not strong enough to force the bible belt people to vaccinate and because of them quite a few outbreaks of diseases happened. They also infected non responders to virus and others. If it just only hit the anti vax people id be ok with it. But unfortunately it does not work like that. 

 

But with strong i mean that they will probably not give people the freedom like in the west to refuse and that is a good thing.

Edited July 24, 2020 by robblok

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, innosiem said:

visa regs are not the same as your previous statement

why would vax only be mandatory for foreigner?
as YOU put it

my answer is i would leave, i would sell up everything,
buy my wife a 2nd passport and leave
do you think i would Thailand before my own health? LOL

i will not be vaccinated.
do not think i am as mentally weak as yourself, and i would just cave in to conformity.

Now please can you answer my initial question properly?

don't worry, your xenophobia has already been expressed and noted????

No you have balls and would leave the country. That solves the problem too and makes you someone else his problem. That is good enough for me. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, innosiem said:

visa regs are not the same as your previous statement

why would vax only be mandatory for foreigner?
as YOU put it

my answer is i would leave, i would sell up everything,
buy my wife a 2nd passport and leave
do you think i would Thailand before my own health? LOL
(i repeated myself, seeing as you are too lazy to research)

i will not be vaccinated.
do not think i am as mentally weak as yourself, and i would just cave in to conformity.

Now please can you answer my initial question properly?

don't worry, your xenophobia has already been expressed and noted????

 

Crazy stuff....????

[innosiem]

Just now, robblok said:

No you have balls and would leave the country. That solves the problem too and makes you someone else his problem. That is good enough for me. 

stating what i would do post an event
does not mean i am pro the event
does not mean i cannot object to the event
????‍♂️

reminds of the uh non-vote/invalid-vote is a vote for us model that recently became popular here????

just another, i stay, everyone else not same me must get out TVFer????

[richard_smith237]

42 minutes ago, transam said:

Think I was about 7, was marched off to a health centre, stuck in a queue with loads of other kids, Small Pox jab.

Polio and Tuberculosis jabs come to mind too. 

Before I came to LOS, Hepatitis jabs, I have also had Tetanus jab, I missed out on the Rabies one.

I assume you never had any of those...

Why would anyone with a perfect immune system require vaccination against Polio, Measles, Tetanus, Diphtheria, Hepatitis (A&B).... ???

 

Neither would such a perfect Immune system will require Antibiotics.....  

[robblok]

1 minute ago, innosiem said:

stating what i would do post an event
does not mean i am pro the event
does not mean i cannot object to the event
????‍♂️

reminds of the uh non-vote/invalid-vote is a vote for us model that recently became popular here????

just another, i stay, everyone else not same me must get out TVFer????

Of course your not pro making it mandatory to be vaccinated you rather have it all your way. Hopefully they do make it mandatory.

 

Nope you can be as different from me as you want as long as you not endanger others. That is exactly what ant vaxers do. They by refusing risk the non responders to a vaccin and those who cant take them health wise. While at the same time reaping all the benefits like economies going again and flying being ok again. 

 

Wanting everything but not willing to sacrifice anything.. definition of selfish.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Why would anyone with a perfect immune system require vaccination against Polio, Measles, Tetanus, Diphtheria, Hepatitis (A&B).... ???

 

Neither would such a perfect Immune system will require Antibiotics.....  

Well yeh, IF any of us were told categorically you ain't going to get anything wrong because you have a perfect immune system that would be great, but what Doctor can tell you that, well none...

[richard_smith237]

51 minutes ago, innosiem said:

have not taken any meds or been in hospital for many many years
there is also a MASSIVE difference in unnecessary vaccination
compared to other medical practices

Understood - so ’some vaccinations are necessary... i.e. the once we are given.

Which ones are not necessary? (i.e. Rubella for men).

 

51 minutes ago, innosiem said:

again, please do provide a source that states s strong immune system is pointless?
as that was the part of my comment you chose to ignore

No one is saying a strong immune system is pointless, you are putting those words in other peoples arguments. 

 

What has been said is that a ’strong immune system’ may not be sufficient in fighting some of the more ‘effective’ viruses, a ’stronger immune system’ is not immunity.... 

 

 

51 minutes ago, innosiem said:

to add to your comment
if i ever did have a life threatening condition such as cancer, i would refuse treatment.
but that is just me

A personal choice to be respected - your decision impacts no one else other than your loved ones.

 

 

51 minutes ago, innosiem said:

everyone is free to choose what they do and i think no different of others who choose differently to myself

The point of a vaccine is to increase herd immunity, a vaccinated or non vaccinated individual is more protected in a vaccinated community. 

 

 

--------

 

I have no issue with proven vaccinations. 

 

I have potential issue with a vaccination rushed through testing and would need to know far more about such a vaccine before permitting my family to take it. 

 

 

 

[innosiem]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

Of course your not pro making it mandatory to be vaccinated you rather have it all your way. Hopefully they do make it mandatory.

 

Nope you can be as different from me as you want as long as you not endanger others. That is exactly what ant vaxers do. They by refusing risk the non responders to a vaccin and those who cant take them health wise. While at the same time reaping all the benefits like economies going again and flying being ok again. 

 

Wanting everything but not willing to sacrifice anything.. definition of selfish.

there is no such thing as an anti vaxxer

they are just people being deprived the freedom of choice
and labeled by selfish people

effectivess cannot even truely be measured
only ineffectiveness can truely be measured
and stated at 40-60% which is what in reality? 50%
so its 50/50 ????‍♂️

wake me up when 100% of those who had flu vax don't get the flu

[innosiem]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Understood - so ’some vaccinations are necessary... i.e. the once we are given.

Which ones are not necessary? (i.e. Rubella for men).

i never said that, please do not try to get me to engage in a conversation based on something i did not say

 

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A personal choice to be respected - your decision impacts no one else other than your loved ones.

everyone's choices impact other people (not specific to the plandemic)
do i complain fatties use up hospital resources etc.
it is wrong to use this argument, unless we first as societies removes all present known dangers which place a burden on society as a whole
plus, i would likely adhere to other regs, providing i have a choice to not vax
i literally just bought 10 rai on top of a mountain, and would be quite happy to self isolate.
i will have no qualms about moving country either
so i am prepared to act to respect society, providing society respects my freedom to choose

 

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The point of a vaccine is to increase herd immunity, a vaccinated or non vaccinated individual is more protected in a vaccinated community. 

again this is delusional thinking
you cannot vax everyone, it is impossible
and vax are 50/50 at best, so this argument is moot

 

????????????

Edited July 24, 2020 by innosiem

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, innosiem said:

there is no such thing as an anti vaxxer

they are just people being deprived the freedom of choice
and labeled by selfish people

effectivess cannot even truely be measured
only ineffectiveness can truely be measured
and stated at 40-60% which is what in reality? 50%
so its 50/50 ????‍♂️

wake me up when 100% of those who had flu vax don't get the flu

You truly are not that smart its now totally clear.

 

That is the point some of those who get the flu vaccin still get flu. That is ok as most will be protected by herd immunity. However the more people who refuse the vaccin the less likely herd immunity will happen. 

 

Say you got 10.000 people 100% take the vaccin 1% is non responder means 100 people are unprotected but 9900 are. Then those 100 are relatively safe still. 

 

Now if you got 10.000 people 1000 antivaxers 9000 take the vaccin 90 people ar unprotected but because there are also 1000 more that did not take the vaccin the risk for those 90 is now a lot higher. That is how your kind risks others.

[richard_smith237]

33 minutes ago, Yinn said:

If thai government say foreigner must vax or get out, what will you do?

Your xenophobia slipped through there Yinn !!!!!!

 

You mean, if the Thai Government said Vaccinations are mandatory for everyone in Thailand and if Foreigners object they relinquish their visa status ????

 

 

I can answer that one: My Son is Thai / British, so not a Foreigner, but if vaccinations were to become mandatory we would move to the UK - at least for a sufficient period of time until which point I have better knowledge and understanding that there are no short term effects from what may be a rushed vaccine, or up until a time when ‘better’ more developed vaccines are available and not ‘rehashed’ reverse engineered through fast-track production lines. 

 

 

As for myself, with my work requiring frequent overseas travel, Thailands lockdown and difficulty in returning to my family the consequence may well be a move back to the UK whereby there is assurance that I can return to my family without restrictions or rather with limited restrictions should there be further outbreaks. 

 

Let's face it - the next seasonal influenza outbreak could see Thailand shrinking within itself and closing borders again. 

 

 

I don’t know what the future holds and that includes the future impact or effects a ‘rushed’ vaccine could have.

 

(I’m perfectly ok with established and well tested vaccines)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[innosiem]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

You truly are not that smart its now totally clear.

 

That is the point some of those who get the flu vaccin still get flu. That is ok as most will be protected by herd immunity. However the more people who refuse the vaccin the less likely herd immunity will happen. 

 

Say you got 10.000 people 100% take the vaccin 1% is non responder means 100 people are unprotected but 9900 are. Then those 100 are relatively safe still. 

 

Now if you got 10.000 people 1000 antivaxers 9000 take the vaccin 90 people ar unprotected but because there are also 1000 more that did not take the vaccin the risk for those 90 is now a lot higher. That is how your kind risks others.

and here are the ad-homiens

if you vax someone and they get the flu
100% the vax did not work

if you vax someone and they did not get the flu
there is no way for certain to know if they would have got the flu or not

and many other contributing factors
straight forward common sense

of course the drug companies will word it as 40-60% "effective"

which no matter which way you look at it
effective or ineffective
is basically stating 50/50

[transam]

1 minute ago, innosiem said:

and here are the ad-homiens

if you vax someone and they get the flu
100% the vax did not work

if you vax someone and they did not get the flu
there is no way for certain to know if they would have got the flu or not

and many other contributing factors
straight forward common sense

of course the drug companies will word it as 40-60% "effective"

which no matter which way you look at it
effective or ineffective
is basically stating 50/50

There is a guess with the annual type of flu and a suitable jab, bit of a gamble, but with C19 they know what they are dealing with unless a mutation. I have had a few jabs for different things that they know should help guard against intrusions..

[innosiem]

1. who tests vaccines to ensure they are safe ?
2. who profits from vaccines being pushed to everyone ?
3. who is liable, if the vaccine causes damage to the body or even death ?

i know a few of you are a bit lazy to do research so here are the answers

1. the vaccine manufacturer (there is no independent testing on vaccines)
2. the manufacturer (obviously)
3. nobody (vaccines manufacturers are immune)

until someone is accountable should the vax do damage
i will pass

[innosiem]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

There is a guess with the annual type of flu and a suitable jab, bit of a gamble, but with C19 they know what they are dealing with unless a mutation. I have had a few jabs for different things that they know should help guard against intrusions..

????
well good thing C19 killed the flu ????