Why the hysteria over wearing a mask, but not a helmet?

[scubascuba3]

It's a great question but will be dismissed by many, logically the helmet issue is more important than mask use but as we know TiT

[Thomas J]

On 9/12/2020 at 4:28 PM, scammed said:

TB was eradicated in the UK by vaccination

Scammed, 

Maybe TB is not an issue in developed countries, however it sure is in Thailand.  

This is the DEATH RATE here.  It is 13 per 100,000 that means over 9,000 deaths each and every year. FAR FAR FAR FAR greater than Covid. 

Also, most of the deaths from Covid are with people who are both older and with pre-existing conditions.  Without those conditions. MOST PEOPLE recover from covid without even needing to be hopsitalized.  Give elderly people with pre-existing conditions TB and the same would be true.  They would succumb to the complications that the TB played with their compromised system.  SO AGAIN, WHY NO CONCERN OVER 9,000 DEATHS BUT SHUTTERING THE COUNTRY OVER 58 

[scammed]

On 9/12/2020 at 8:18 PM, Thomas J said:

Scammed, 

Maybe TB is not an issue in developed countries, however it sure is in Thailand.  

This is the DEATH RATE here.  It is 13 per 100,000 that means over 9,000 deaths each and every year. FAR FAR FAR FAR greater than Covid. 

Also, most of the deaths from Covid are with people who are both older and with pre-existing conditions.  Without those conditions. MOST PEOPLE recover from covid without even needing to be hopsitalized.  Give elderly people with pre-existing conditions TB and the same would be true.  They would succumb to the complications that the TB played with their compromised system.  SO AGAIN, WHY NO CONCERN OVER 9,000 DEATHS BUT SHUTTERING THE COUNTRY OVER 58 

 

 

i didnt state that, messed up quote

[eisfeld]

41 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

SO AGAIN, WHY NO CONCERN OVER 9,000 DEATHS BUT SHUTTERING THE COUNTRY OVER 58 

Have you considered that the numbers are relatively low because it was shut to the outside, had curfew, masks etc? How can we know what the numbers would be like had Thailand pulled a Sweden?

 

Plus there are multiple strains of the novel corona virus, some much more dangerous. Maybe Thailand just dodged that bullet so far. The Americas are seeing between 50 and 100 deaths per 100k population. Compare that to your 13 for TB. That would be 35,000 - 70,000 people dead.

 

And again, the novel corona virus is new and not fully studied and understood. So better err on the side of caution. TB is very well studied.

 

TB is easily preventable. We have vaccines for it. There's zero reason why it would be able to decimate a country. Now I agree that Thailand has way too many deaths from TB every year (12k per year according to WHO). But at least with TB you yourself can make sure you will not get it. With Covid-19 that's not so easy. TB is a bit like not wearing a helmet in this regard. The choice can be your own. With Covid-19 it's the choices of others.

[Thomas J]

On 9/12/2020 at 9:32 PM, eisfeld said:

Have you considered that the numbers are relatively low because it was shut to the outside, had curfew, masks etc? How can we know what the numbers would be like had Thailand pulled a Sweden

Eisfeld,

 

You are trying to establish a correlation without a causation. There is a correlation between the number of number of drownings in a pool and films that Nicholas Cage appeared in.  That does not mean that Nicholas Cage caused the drownings. 

In Thailand yes the numbers are low, however that does not mean that what the government did or did not do was responsible for it.  EVERY COUNTRY I REPEAT EVERY COUNTRY THAT IS HOT, HUMID, AND HAS A YOUNG POPULATION HAS VERY LOW COVID RATES. 

Even if I gave you what you stated, why the upside down, draconian respose to 58 deaths from Covid,  The VAST VAST majority of people who get covid recover without hospitalization.  By contrast, 9200 Thais died from TB last year, and over 23,000 in traffic accidents.  Why the handstands over 58 deaths and NO RESPONSE to TB which like Covid is spread by human contact, or traffic accidents that wearing a helmet on a motorcycle could save more lives. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

9 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Why is the government taking draconian steps to stop a virus that the vast majority of people will recover from, even without hospitalization, but seems to not care about the very real danger of serious injuries or deaths from these? 

If I don't wear a helmet and I fall of my bike for whatever reason then maybe I get injured and/or I die.

If I don't wear a mask and have the virus then maybe I infect many people.

In the first case I endanger only myself and in the second case I endanger many people. 

That's the short version and that should be obvious to everyone.

 

Apart from that we can argue for hours how people behave and what the government can and should do about it.

[Mark Nothing]

Because it was easier for our "leaders" to use a "virus" as an excuse to eliminate your freedoms, lock you down, and put your business 10 foot under.

[impulse]

Wear a helmet.  Don't wear a helmet.  Up to you and the local popo.

 

I don't understand this obsession with the choices other people make, that affect only them.

 

And I'll end with my standard... Wearing a helmet while riding a scooter is like wearing a condom to do a crack whore.  Sure, they're good ideas.  But not the important decisions in the scheme of things.

 

[Meat Pie 47]

On 9/12/2020 at 8:18 PM, Thomas J said:

Scammed, 

Maybe TB is not an issue in developed countries, however it sure is in Thailand.  

This is the DEATH RATE here.  It is 13 per 100,000 that means over 9,000 deaths each and every year. FAR FAR FAR FAR greater than Covid. 

Also, most of the deaths from Covid are with people who are both older and with pre-existing conditions.  Without those conditions. MOST PEOPLE recover from covid without even needing to be hopsitalized.  Give elderly people with pre-existing conditions TB and the same would be true.  They would succumb to the complications that the TB played with their compromised system.  SO AGAIN, WHY NO CONCERN OVER 9,000 DEATHS BUT SHUTTERING THE COUNTRY OVER 58 

 

 

Tuberculosis is caused by bacteria that spread from person to person through microscopic droplets released into the air. This can happen when someone with the untreated, active form of tuberculosis coughs, speaks, sneezes, spits, laughs or sings. Although tuberculosis is contagious, it's not easy to catch.

[eisfeld]

3 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

You are trying to establish a correlation without a causation. There is a correlation between the number of number of drownings in a pool and films that Nicholas Cage appeared in.  That does not mean that Nicholas Cage caused the drownings. 

In Thailand yes the numbers are low, however that does not mean that what the government did or did not do was responsible for it.  EVERY COUNTRY I REPEAT EVERY COUNTRY THAT IS HOT, HUMID, AND HAS A YOUNG POPULATION HAS VERY LOW COVID RATES. 

Even if I gave you what you stated, why the upside down, draconian respose to 58 deaths from Covid,  The VAST VAST majority of people who get covid recover without hospitalization.  By contrast, 9200 Thais died from TB last year, and over 23,000 in traffic accidents.  Why the handstands over 58 deaths and NO RESPONSE to TB which like Covid is spread by human contact, or traffic accidents that wearing a helmet on a motorcycle could save more lives. 

I did not try to establish a correlation without causation. I asked if you considered that there might be indeed causation. I am not claiming there is. I am saying there could and it should be considered. But you cannot either claim that there is no causation.

 

Your claim that every other country that is hot, humid and has a young population is extremely wrong. Just look at Brazil. Climate very comparable to Thailand. Young population. Very high mortality rate (61 per 100k). Chile, Peru... also.

 

Again, your TB comparison is flawed and it has been explained now a couple times. If Thailand had infection and mortality rates of Brazil, we'd see death rates several times larger than what we see from TB.

 

And as I explained the reaction of a country must not just be seen in terms of lives saved. The economic impact must be considered and that can be much more severe with Covid than TB and especially road deaths. Road deaths are not contagious. No factories get shut down because of it. 100 people can die in a single massive accident and nobody would quarantine everyone in the area. The decision makers can easily protect themselves from TB and road deaths. Not from Covid-19.

 

You opened your post by talking about correlation and causation but then you compare completely unrelated things that neither have correlation nor causation ????

[eisfeld]

26 minutes ago, Mark Nothing said:

Because it was easier for our "leaders" to use a "virus" as an excuse to eliminate your freedoms, lock you down, and put your business 10 foot under.

And they would do that why exactly? So the economy tanks, the population gets angry at them, they have a much harder time and can extract less money? Yea sounds like a plan.

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Eisfeld,

 

You are trying to establish a correlation without a causation. There is a correlation between the number of number of drownings in a pool and films that Nicholas Cage appeared in.  That does not mean that Nicholas Cage caused the drownings. 

In Thailand yes the numbers are low, however that does not mean that what the government did or did not do was responsible for it.  EVERY COUNTRY I REPEAT EVERY COUNTRY THAT IS HOT, HUMID, AND HAS A YOUNG POPULATION HAS VERY LOW COVID RATES. 

Even if I gave you what you stated, why the upside down, draconian respose to 58 deaths from Covid,  The VAST VAST majority of people who get covid recover without hospitalization.  By contrast, 9200 Thais died from TB last year, and over 23,000 in traffic accidents.  Why the handstands over 58 deaths and NO RESPONSE to TB which like Covid is spread by human contact, or traffic accidents that wearing a helmet on a motorcycle could save more lives. 

 

The classic example is the Oldenburg stork correlation.

Having said that, 66.6% is a pretty weak number. 95% is usually the aim.

[Emdog]

We've seen plenty of posts from folks who never have worn a helmet and are just fine as ever.

In interests of fairness, can we hear from those who have been killed, TBI, crippled about helmets and safety?... oh, yeah... I see.... never mind.

Hysteria? "a psychological disorder (not now regarded as a single definite condition) whose symptoms include conversion of psychological stress into physical symptoms (somatization), selective amnesia, shallow volatile emotions, and overdramatic or attention-seeking behavior. The term has a controversial history as it was formerly regarded as a disease specific to women."

Prudent: "acting with or showing care and thought for the future."

Maybe consider risk and reward?

What's the risk if you wear a mask and there is no virus anywhere near you? Small expense, bit of a nuisance, harder to breathe and may get hot underneath.

 

What's the risk if there is virus near you and you don't wear a mask that lowers risk?

Maybe asymptomatic & pass on to someone vulnerable who could die or have long term damage

Maybe you get it and must be hospitalized on ventilator for weeks at great expense and trauma

Maybe you get it and die

I'll stick with the masks. And why should I believe a government that lies so much regarding stats?

[seancbk]

22 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Ezzra,

 

Is this about "protecting lives"  What about the children whose parents put them on the motorcycles or back of the baht bus?  Did they choose? 

 

Thailand cannot afford for it's population to grow too big or too fast.   Letting a few kids and adults die in accidents, where you can blame them for their demise, helps to keep the longer term population down.  At least that is my theory.

[Jack Mountain]

"Why the hysteria over wearing a mask, but not a helmet?"

Baby steps ...

 

 

[jvs]

30 minutes ago, Emdog said:

What's the risk if there is virus near you and you don't wear a mask that lowers risk?

What is the risk if you are not on your bike but  you still wear a helmet?

Edited September 13, 2020 by jvs
sunday morning.

[Emdog]

5 minutes ago, jvs said:

What is the risk if there is no traffic near you but you still wear a helmet?

If you follow TVF stories, seems plenty of riders  seem capable of crashing into power poles, overpasses, restaurants, parked trucks... etc etc

[jvs]

2 minutes ago, Emdog said:

If you follow TVF stories, seems plenty of riders  seem capable of crashing into power poles, overpasses, restaurants, parked trucks... etc etc

Sorry i had the right idea but it came out wrong,fixed it.

 

[1FinickyOne]

23 hours ago, ezzra said:

Because not wearing a helmet will only out yourself at risk while not wearing mask put many others in risk of infections who will infect others...

Just a thank you for stating what should be obvious... I wear a mask at appropriate times as required... maybe an hour or so a week... a traffic accident is terrible but it is not spreading death exponentially as covid can... 

 

also, there is ample evidence that even the people who recover from covid have long lasting detrimental effects... 

 

ps - if I thought that riding on a motorcycle alone could infect/possibly kill my kid or another member of my family, I would never ride a motorcycle again... 

Edited September 13, 2020 by kenk24

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

Thailand cannot afford for it's population to grow too big or too fast.   Letting a few kids and adults die in accidents, where you can blame them for their demise, helps to keep the longer term population down.  At least that is my theory.

 

Thailand’s national death rate is 7.608 per 1000ppl per year. 

 

Thats approximately 530,000 deaths per year.

 

25,000 annual road deaths accounts for 4.7% of total deaths in Thailand each year. 

 

Alarmingly high when compared with the proportions in other nations, however, its not significant enough to control the population as your theory implies. 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

13 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If I don't wear a helmet and I fall of my bike for whatever reason then maybe I get injured and/or I die.

If I don't wear a mask and have the virus then maybe I infect many people.

In the first case I endanger only myself and in the second case I endanger many people. 

That's the short version and that should be obvious to everyone.

 

Apart from that we can argue for hours how people behave and what the government can and should do about it.

 

One of the common arguments in support of not wearing a helmet is that its ‘victimless’ (i.e. only the rider not wearing the helmet could be impacted). However, thats not true, there is additional burden on health services, including rehabilitation, burden on the state to look after the injured and handicapped, additional burden on insurance, and finally, the big one....

IF a motorcycle pulls out in front of someone and injures themself a person will naturally feel bad, if that person is not wearing a helmet, cracks their head a dies we would feel terrible through no fault of our own - there is a psychological impact which can directly impact us because of someone else’s carelessness. 

I’d like to think in such a situation I could just ’turn cold’ and accept its not my fault, but we don’t know that until its happened. I’d hate for my Wife or a loved one to find themselves in that position of guilt without doing anything wrong. 

 

Mask wearing: I think its fairly pointless, but I’m happy to wear a mask if it makes everyone else around me more comfortable.

 

 

Wearing a Mask is new and has been imposted very sharply without flexibility and its more easily policed by society as people can’t get into a 7-11 without a mask !

 

The same could be done with helmet wearing, but the policing is simply ineffective. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brickbat]

A large bandana folded into a triangle ( double layer cotton) covering Nose, Mouth and Ears is not acceptable to some brain dead shopping centre entry guards! Because does not look like a mask , be it some cheap 10 thb <deleted> , which they accept. 

[JusticeGB]

60 people a day die on the roads and 58 people have died in 6 months from covid19. People wear covid19 masks on motorbikes but not crash melmets about 60+% of deaths are motorbike deaths. I think that the statisticians should separate the motorbike deaths and also those not wearing helmets. This might wake Thai people up.

[PETERTHEEATER]

Why the hysteria over wearing a mask, but not a helmet?

By Thomas J, Yesterday at 05:55 AM in General topics

 

Masks protect the lungs. Everyone who breathes has lungs. Helmets protect brains. Not everyone in Thailand has one......

[Bangkok Barry]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:10 PM, poohy said:

while the above is true i think the OP is commenting on the mentality of no helmet ok, BUT masks are a must

i regularly see folks hurtling by me on a motorbike at 80 km plus with no helmet but fully protected by a mask

Simple answer is that a mask costs a few baht and a helmet doesn't. Another answer is that the people have been frightened by the government into wearing a mask and the same can't be said for them wearing a helmet.

[Ireland32]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:53 PM, CGW said:

Despite a mountain of medical facts that dispute this? 0.1 -0.3) like throwing squash balls at a tennis net and expecting it to stop them.

But the MSM that people seem to so rightly deserve furthers the "agenda" with this nonsense - its for your safety folks ????

 

TV Epidemiologist again

[LawrenceN]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:18 PM, bkk6060 said:

Technically they are hurting their kids and themselves if there is an accident.

Parents make poor choices for their kids all the time.

And the cheap helmets many wear will do nothing anyway to protect them.

 

I get it, but am anti helmet.  I think it should be a personal choice as is killing yourself by smoking or drinking too much.

The mask responsibility has been explained by previous posts.

 

Plan your accidents carefully. 

[jesimps]

On 9/12/2020 at 1:17 PM, eisfeld said:

Maybe because TB has been around for thousands of years? Maybe because it's by now "accepted" and "well known"? Maybe because the lethality of TB is much much lower compared to Covid as far as we currently know contrary to your claims (we know the numbers for TB pretty well, Covid-19 not 100%, you can't compare absolute numbers you need to check deaths per infection AND you are comparing "incidents" to deaths...)? And maybe because according to your graph the situation regarding TB is improving steadily?

 

Covid is new, still not 100% settled as to the exact lethality, mutating fast and the number of cases has grown rapidly. Better overreact to protect than be unlucky and wiped out.

 

Tons and tons of reasons that imho should be obvious. Even more so for the helmet comparison.

 

Again one of these masks threads. Why are they such a big problem for some? I guess people have too much time now, frustrated with the bad economic situation and need to vent some of this energy. Can't explain it otherwise. ????

Lockdowns and shutdowns of companies I can understand that it impacts people's lives heavily. But masks?

I have no problems about wearing a mask, but I do think the OP has a valid point. I think he's pointing out that as well as covid precautions ie wearing a mask but no helmet, they should be taking the prospect of being killed on the road just as seriously, especially in relation to their children.

[AgMech Cowboy]

It's pure political hysteria. It's new. It's been made highly political. Only Sweden has been able to have the press, people, medical experts and politicians all on the same side.

[grubman]

On 9/12/2020 at 8:21 AM, robblok said:

Ezzra was right. No mask you endanger others, no helmet too bad you only endanger yourself.

 

 

I don't believe this is true, not wearing a helmet endangers others as well, not in the scence  of physical danger but what if it happen to be you that is driving an car that happens to have an accident with a non helmet wearing rider and that rider happen to pass away for the injuries from the accident, it is going to affect you weather it is your fault or not, the financial durden and ever the legal ramification which could affect you and as well the psychological effect i might have on you as well. The heartache on the family of the dead, so saying that it is only them that are endangered is totally wrong it effect many in many different ways, helmets should be enforced full stop.