Thailand falls in global English Proficiency Index for fourth consecutive year

[SomchaiCNX]

Test al native English speaking countries as well, I bet the Dutch and the rest of the top 5 will beat them as well in the same test. The problem is that at most (international and bilingual) schools they keep speaking Thai with each other. Some International schools in CNX are overrun by Chinese, same problem, they speak Chinese during the breaks.

[nobodysfriend]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

    4 years of very poor leadership at the top explains the falling scores year after year.  They aren't doing anything right starting with education.  They've had years in power to turn things around and show positive results but, instead, the education system is getting worse, not better.  They should be ashamed.

The Thai elite needs a cheap workforce to ensure their ongoing profits .

[SomchaiCNX]

17 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

makes more sense to me, Thailand doesn't need the west and their desires to take advantage of every country that they're allowed to..

And the Chinese are different? Look how they took over Africa.

[Srikcir]

18 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

It all begins with interest of the world outside, which is lacking. The incentive is 0.

It's more basic than interest in the outside world.

To know a foreign language is to be exposed to its culture and traditions. To wit, to speak English is lying in the shade of democracy as speaking Russian is to oligarchy. English has no "Thainess." (Ref. Prayuth).

I recall that Junta leader/PM Prayut once complained that English, especially English taught by English native speakers, was a threat to national security as it challenges Thai tradition and culture, ie., in effect absolute control of the nation by "royalists"/military. 

At one point I recall that PM Prayut started a program to replace native English-speaking instructors with Thai instructors throughout the school systems. That would allegedly help preserve thainess in the instruction. And shelter students from democratic thinking?

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

2 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

a funny thread.

 

A whole bunch of farangs who have lived here for years who cant string a simple sentence together, complaining about Thais who have never been and have no interest in going to England and not being able to speak English.
 

And the endless advice on what the Thais should do without seeing the irony. ????
 

Much more useful for an expat to be able to speak the language where he lives than for Thais to speak a language they will never use. But it easier for them to complain on a forum than actually bothering to learn even basic polite Thai.
 

As a fluent Thai speaker I get your point about expats not integrating which is a bugbear of mine also.

 

That being said, Thai is a very basic language, with only about 50,000 words, and is purely locally used and will never be adopted internationally. It makes no sense for people other than immigrants or businessmen doing business in country to learn it. 

 

In comparison, English is the lingua franca of the modern World, and as Thailand relies heavily on exports and tourism, it needs a level of proficiency to be able to compete in these areas. Also, if Thais want to further their careers they need to have another language, English being one of the most useful. 

[Bangkok Barry]

18 hours ago, J Town said:

Hasn't this poor dead horse been beaten enough?

 

You get what you pay for. Pay a competitive salary and you'll get quality teachers. I know a school where they are currently short 14 teachers. They are part of the the largest private school system in Southeast Asia, and the pay they offer is literally laughed at and it shows. Numbers don't lie. As a result you get lousy English proficiency. Again, numbers don't lie.

 

You also need students that are actually interested in learning. And a Prime Minister who doesn't tell students that they shouldn't worry if they can't understand English as one day all the world will speak Thai.

[Neeranam]

42 minutes ago, overherebc said:

I've been here longer than 17 years and still speak very little Thai. Every job I've had,  had contracts and specifications in english. Thai language contracts have too many 'interpretation options'  ASME ANSI DIN BS etc just cannot be translated to Thai.

All my in-laws speak english.

I have enough Thai to get what I want in a shop or restaurant and that suits me fine.

Wow. I can't imagine not speaking Thai when living in Thailand. For one thing, it gives so much freedom to go where you want when you want. 

Do your in laws speak English to each other so you can understand? 

Also, brings so many opportunities, for example I work as a translator now. 

BTW, if there is a contract in Thai and English, and any discrepancies, the Thai one governs in court. 

[Bangkok Barry]

17 hours ago, Traubert said:

Hows the Thai proficency in the Western world?

That's a very ignorant comment. English is the international language in just about every field, such as business, aviation etc. Thai is spoken in one country and is spoken by far less than 100 million. Perhaps you weren't aware of that.

[michaellee]

18 hours ago, J Town said:

Hasn't this poor dead horse been beaten enough?

 

You get what you pay for. Pay a competitive salary and you'll get quality teachers. I know a school where they are currently short 14 teachers. They are part of the the largest private school system in Southeast Asia, and the pay they offer is literally laughed at and it shows. Numbers don't lie. As a result you get lousy English proficiency. Again, numbers don't lie.

Yes. The school hired Filipino teacher for cheap but I have heard and seen them teaching english real badly even when they claimed they are univ graduate, the tenses were all wrong, govt school do not providr any books, teacher had to bring own books from abroad and teach them the most basic grade 1 english to the prathom 4 class. Its sad

[Mr Meeseeks]

4 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

You also need students that are actually interested in learning. And a Prime Minister who doesn't tell students that they shouldn't worry if they can't understand English as one day all the world will speak Thai.

Main problem right there. 

 

Of course we can't fully discuss the dubious authenticity of the origins of the Thai language because of locals laws.

 

I would suggest that Thai will not exist as a widely spoken language in 100 years. Much like Gaelic in Scotland or Catalan in Spain.

[Bangkok Barry]

16 hours ago, cmarshall said:

That is the reason that here are no Thai brands that have global recognition and no world-famous Thai products like Japanese autos or Korean flat screens.  

And before anyone mentions Red Bull, it was an insignificant local drink until bought and marketed by an Austrian. And the Thai silk industry was established by an American.

[cmarshall]

18 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

That being said, Thai is a very basic language, with only about 50,000 words

 

Nonsense.  Linguistics scholars consider all languages to have about the same complexity.  If Thai seems basic to you, it's because you can't speak, read, or write it. 

[Isaan sailor]

Thais girls can learn to speak English.  Just marry or live with an English-speaking guy.  Sadly, with quarantine and a very strong currency—the supply of English-speaking foreigners shall dwindle.

[Mr Meeseeks]

 

1 minute ago, cmarshall said:

 

Nonsense.  Linguistics scholars consider all languages to have about the same complexity.  If Thai seems basic to you, it's because you can't speak, read, or write it. 

 

Wrong. I can read, write and speak it bub.

[cmarshall]

Just now, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

 

Wrong. I can read, write and speak it bub.

Congratulations.  Now read up on linguistics before your next pronouncement.

[Mr Meeseeks]

2 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Nonsense.  Linguistics scholars consider all languages to have about the same complexity.  If Thai seems basic to you, it's because you can't speak, read, or write it. 

Then there's this:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/501139-how-many-words-in-the-thai-language/

[NightSky]

Even my English has worsened and Im English!

 

 

[cmarshall]

Just now, Mr Meeseeks said:

Then there's this:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/501139-how-many-words-in-the-thai-language/

 

And your belief that the complexity of a language can be measured by the size of the vocabulary has what scientific basis?

 

[itsallmine68]

If one does some research they will find out that when Singapore was developing and was made up of Chinese, Malays,Indians they needed one thing to be come a Nation and that was a Language. They chose English 

If Thailand wishes to proceed down this path  well them a refocussing needs to happen according to the statistics

19 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Not surprised, they are not really interested outside the tourist areas.

 

They should hire a lot of English teachers, a lot, and somebody that really can speak English and not the English teacher I spoke to in SiSaket many years ago, I didn't understand one word she was saying (Thai) and I felt sorry for her and her students. 

 

Singapore is doing very well in this regard.

 

 

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Just now, cmarshall said:

 

And your belief that the complexity of a language can be measured by the size of the vocabulary has what scientific basis?

 

The basis that 1 million words (as in English) will be far more difficult to command properly than a language with under 3,000 words (Thai).

 

It seems that I irritated you with my comment about complexity. Forgive me, I know little of the complexities of linguistics being not a TEFLer myself.

[Saltire]

2 hours ago, Emdog said:

I would like to volunteer a few hours a week to teach at a local school for free. I imagine more than a few retired expats such as myself would also volunteer. Many barriers to making this a reality, perhaps including having a native English teacher would show how little skill the accredited Thai English teacher has. And so it goes

Am with you 100% on this.

 

I am sure there are many retirees or people with time on their hands who would love to do volunteer teaching. When I arrived here some 4 years ago from Siem Reap (where I had legally volunteered for 5 years) and moved to my wifes village, I was immediatelly approached by the local high school and many local residents who offered me both volunteer and paid English teaching. Obviously on a retirement visa this is not allowed as it is construed as 'work' so I reluctantly turned down all offers.

 

To this day I still get asked to tutor students privately for decent money, but have to turn it down.

 

Having met most of the 4 or 5 English teachers from the high school now I honestly believe my time woud be better spent improving their English first.

 

It's sad as many of the kids obviously want to learn, many regularly at least attempting to talk to me on our walks around the village.

 

A poll of TV members who would like to volunteer would be interesting. Can't see this changing anytime soon.

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, NightSky said:

Even my English has worsened and Im English!

 

 

I know how you feel. I've lived here most of my life now and forget some English words. 

[cmarshall]

3 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The basis that 1 million words (as in English) will be far more difficult to command properly than a language with under 3,000 words (Thai).

 

It seems that I irritated you with my comment about complexity. Forgive me, I know little of the complexities of linguistics being not a TEFLer myself.

Correct.  You know nothing about the science of linguistics and you don't seem to know much about Thai if you think it has only 3000 words.  I suggest you give your opinions more on subjects of which you do have knowledge.  

[spidermike007]

When no real effort is being made to improve the system, improve the proficiency of the teachers, or the methods, nor to use the outside world as any kind of gauge, comparison, or resource, then you fall backwards. On top of that the schools here seem to instill a lack of confidence, a feeling of inferiority on the part of the students, and a continuation of the tribal mentality of obedience, at all costs.

 

I was hanging out with a friend the other day. Her son is about 12. Good kid. Speaks some english. He is in a sailing club, and his mom is nearly fluent in english, so he picks up alot there too, and seems to take what he learns in school seriously. I told him he was a smart kid. He shook his head no. I asked him why do you say no? He did not have an answer. I asked him, have any of your teachers ever told you, that you were smart? He said never, ever. The teachers seem reluctant to praise the kids, and give them confidence, and this would appear to have an extremely corrosive effect on society. 

 

Is the educational system here deliberately inferior, one might ask?

[cmarshall]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I know how you feel. I've lived here most of my life now and forget some English words. 

 

Although there is some interesting research that suggests that achieving fluency in a second language may delay the onset of Alzheimer's, it has also been established that bilingual folks experience more of the just-on-the-tip-of-my-tongue experience as they get older.  So, welcome to the club.

[Deli]

19 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

If Thailand remains closed to farang tourists then bar girls will forget the little English that they know and the ratings will fall further ????

 

Me go loom you, boom boom long time.  Guess this will be remembered.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

Should be able to but it really doesn’t worry me if they can or can not. 
 

But they shouldn’t be rude to locals because the locals can not understand them.

 

And for someone who hasn’t picked up even basic thai like how to ask for a piece of rope after 8 years of living here? He was the stupid one.

 

Similar comments on this thread, more likely than not coming from like the homepro bloke. I wonder if he will read this. 

Hear hear, I have two friends who I was out with recently who didn't know how to say the day/month in Thai! they have been here 42 years between them.

Last week, I was with a US  guy in a cafe and he asked me to ask the waitress for more hot water, I kid you not.

 

Learn one word a day and you'll be surprised, it seems like yesterday I started this thread -  https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/49903-lets-learn-one-word-a-day/#comments

[overherebc]

44 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Wow. I can't imagine not speaking Thai when living in Thailand. For one thing, it gives so much freedom to go where you want when you want. 

Do your in laws speak English to each other so you can understand? 

Also, brings so many opportunities, for example I work as a translator now. 

BTW, if there is a contract in Thai and English, and any discrepancies, the Thai one governs in court. 

Yes when i'm with them they do use english. We don't sit on the floor, we use the table in the dining room when we visit. We don't have chickens running around because the land they have is used by local farmers not the family.

Most of them studied overseas after Uni' here as the FIL wanted to make sure they could get a decent job. One just retired from flying commercial and one recently returned from working for the government in USA. 

I could go on. Oh ok, FIL built a 2 bedroom house for us in BKK as a wedding present.

Nearly forgot, one is a lawyer, studied in UK.

Edit.

Re' contracts.

Companies from UK USA EU who used to place large fabrication jobs in Thailand didn't write the contract in Thai. The Thai subcontracted companies may have their translation of it but the contract in english was used.

 

[John Drake]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand’s English proficiency ranking amongst non English speakers has fallen for the fourth consecutive year.

 

For some people this will mark an improvement on hitting their goal of being 100 out of 100.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Emdog said:

I would like to volunteer a few hours a week to teach at a local school for free. I imagine more than a few retired expats such as myself would also volunteer. Many barriers to making this a reality, perhaps including having a native English teacher would show how little skill the accredited Thai English teacher has. And so it goes

And how do you think the English teachers would feel? 

 

Just imagine if retired Chinamen started doing your profession for free in your country, whatever it is.