BTS: Cheap or expensive? Comparisons with foreign systems point to bad deal in Bangkok

[rooster59]

BTS: Cheap or expensive? Comparisons with foreign systems point to bad deal in Bangkok

 

Image: Sanook

 

Debate is raging in Bangkok about plans for the fare ceiling on the recently extended green line to be raised.

 

This would see passengers on the network have to fork out 104 baht for a long journey to work from the suburbs.

 

Bangkok governor Aswin Kwanmuang - a well heeled general - has sparked outrage by suggesting that it is cheap.

 

He said that concession agreements would need to be scrapped for the deal not to go through. He indicated that the government alone could order that.

 

He plans to press ahead on February 16th with the higher fares.

 

The move came in for criticism from Attawich Suwanphakdee of the Kla Party who called the fare unfair and said they should not rush to extend concession agreements.

 

Gouging people like taxis on a further you travel the further you pay basis should not be the way to go. He preferred getting more people to use the system and bringing the price down.

 

Information online suggests that the minimum daily wage in Bangkok is 331 baht. That would mean a worker might have to put in around three hours hard labor just to get to work.

 

By comparison in London - where the HOURLY minimum living wage is 350 baht - the maximum fare on the underground is roughly equivalent to just ONE hour's work.

 

Many have said that the BTS in Bangkok is too expensive for lower paid workers and the latest controversy is fuelling those views.

 

Especially at a time when the government should be encouraging the use of public transport due to the appalling pollution being faced in the Thai capital.

 

Sources: Daily News and Sanook

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2021-01-23

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[blackcab]

7 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

Gouging people like taxis on a further you travel the further you pay basis...

 

So by this logic a taxi should take me to Hua Hin for the same price as a trip just around the corner.

 

I'm all for it. Where do I sign up?

[keith101]

12 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

This would see passengers on the network have to fork out 104 baht for a long journey to work from the suburbs.

Is this price one way or return , if only one way then people shouldn't use it at all , nobody should be expected to pay two thirds of a daily wage just to travel to work and back .

[DaLa]

They forget to mention that the London underground is a huge con trick. You walk down some steps, then walk half a kilometre in a tunnel full of poor musicians. Finally you enter a large hall with antique one arm bandits  that don't give change. Then you travel for 5 minutes down an escalator, walk another 200 metres and wait for a train.

 

You get on that train and try not to look at anyone for 10 minutes, exit the train and walk another 200 metres to another escalator where you rise up to another platform and catch another train.

 

Repeat the last part and then walk another half kilometre through tunnels full of the other half of the band waiting to hit the big time. Not far now , just walk up 100 steps and you’re out on the street…...only 1 kilometre from where you started.

[xtof2]

40 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

 

This would see passengers on the network have to fork out 104 baht for a long journey to work from the suburbs.

 

Bangkok governor Aswin Kwanmuang - a well heeled general - has sparked outrage by suggesting that it is cheap.

 

 

 

Are these guys have any touch with reality ????

Bangkok Governor, what a shame!

[DirtyHarry55]

Building those tracks above Bangkok and importing Trains was always going to be very expensive and out of reach for the poor Thai's.

They will just have to stick with the black smoke belching public buses.
Will they be offering season, monthly, yearly tickets for commuters at discounted prices as in most western countries?
Same will be for the high speed trains they will probably be more expensive than flying a luxury for the rich.
Oh and lets not forget about then extra cost of corruption which is usually about 30% of the total cost.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by DirtyHarry55

[soi3eddie]

 

New York flat fare on it's subways is $2.75 (about 90 Baht) in one of  the most expensive cities in the world. A flat fare of say 30 Baht on BTS and MRT in Bangkok would seem fair for here.

 

[Pravda]

34 minutes ago, DaLa said:

They forget to mention that the London underground is a huge con trick. You walk down some steps, then walk half a kilometre in a tunnel full of poor musicians. Finally you enter a large hall with antique one arm bandits  that don't give change. Then you travel for 5 minutes down an escalator, walk another 200 metres and wait for a train.

 

You get on that train and try not to look at anyone for 10 minutes, exit the train and walk another 200 metres to another escalator where you rise up to another platform and catch another train.

 

Repeat the last part and then walk another half kilometre through tunnels full of the other half of the band waiting to hit the big time. Not far now , just walk up 100 steps and you’re out on the street…...only 1 kilometre from where you started.

 

Oh what an inconvenience 

[kevin612]

BTS is expensive, one way maximum  40 baht is ok.

[CLW]

The developed and extended all over the city the train network has become, they should switch to a zone based ticket pricing, not per station.

But for that you would need a single ticket or umbrella operator for all train systems.

All of this of course never going to happen here because this thinking is out of the intellectual reach for those in charge.

By the way, I haven't heard for ages from the proposed unified Mangmoom ticket for all public transport neither for the smart card based ticket system on all buses.

Probably the money has been skimmed off and the pigs get their snouts into another through.

[KamnanT]

2 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

So by this logic a taxi should take me to Hua Hin for the same price as a trip just around the corner.

 

I'm all for it. Where do I sign up?

I think they are suggesting the opposite: that the BTS not charge based on distance (like a taxi) but a flat fare as in cities like New York. Problem with this is that passengers travelling short distances would in essence be subsidising those that travel a long distance. Maybe this has some social merit, maybe not.

 

A third option would be for the government to heavily subsidise the entire system and make fares low enough that the BTS/MRT/SRT networks become so affordable that no one even questions that it the cheapest way to travel (like Singapore).  Of course, it's hard to afford such subsidies when there are submarines, aircraft carriers and dirigibles to be paid for.

[kingstonkid]

As long as you are dealing with a private company they are going to want to 

a. make a profit

b. keep shareholders happy

c. pay for maintenance and uprgades to the system.

 

Right now a person traveling to Bangkok from Khu Kot is paying 

a. 35 baht for the bus which takes forever to get to victory

b. 15 baht for mini bus to major and 37 baht to mor chit or victory total 52 baht.  The challenge with this is the long wait in line to get a minivan at night as traffic and weather cause delays and everyone is trying to get home.

 

I realize that you can not charge the same as you did when the BTS ran just from Mor Chit to ON Nut.  Costs do increase with the mileage and with the number of people you have to hire to work at the different stations.

 

Can everyone afford the BTS now NO.

Is Khu Kot swamped i the morning with people even though it is free NO

If the government took over running the system would it be better and could they do it for 50 baht one way.  NO GOD NO

 

The only fair solution is to determine what the cost of running the trains and stations is and adding that cost plus 20% or you can simply look at the original Mor chit On nut costs and raise the cost for each stop by 10 baht to cover the costs

 

 

 

 

[Estrada]

3 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

 

New York flat fare on it's subways is $2.75 (about 90 Baht) in one of  the most expensive cities in the world. A flat fare of say 30 Baht on BTS and MRT in Bangkok would seem fair for here.

 

The New York flat fare for a single ticket was $3.00 (B100), not $2.75 and similar to the BTS, its' fare will shortly be increased to $4.00 (B122). The fact is that that the New York Metro was built in 1904 and is aging considerably, consequently there have been 64 major accidents on the system. It does not have modern signaling systems on all its' system, like the BTS has. If there was a flat fare of B30 the whole system would be overcrowded and without any profit, the maintenance of the system would suffer and trains, stations etc would start falling apart with frequent breakdowns, the same as the BMTA buses and SRT trains. 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Estrada

[klauskunkel]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Bangkok governor Aswin Kwanmuang - a well heeled general

So, how much BTS stock do you own?

[cucme]

In Berlin they are discussing free public transport like in other German cities.

How about that?

[tgw]

3 minutes ago, cucme said:

In Berlin they are discussing free public transport like in other German cities.

How about that?

 

there is no such thing as free - the cost just shifts to other people who will end up paying it.

[userabcd]

7 hours ago, cucme said:

In Berlin they are discussing free public transport like in other German cities.

How about that?

That is excellent.

Edited January 23, 2021 by userabcd

[rupert the bear]

its interesting as if we visit singapore seoul ,hk,taibei we find the prices cheaper than here in real terms,a 4 stop journey in taibei is 20NT about 20 baht on the bts is more.all the mentioned countries are richer and workers are paid far more even the lowest paid,QED

[Luv4get1]

In my opinion it is mega cheap, clean and staff so polite

[bkk6060]

37 minutes ago, cucme said:

In Berlin they are discussing free public transport like in other German cities.

How about that?

Yes, good time to make it free as no one is taking it since the country is on lockdown until at least the middle of next month with potential border closures looming.

How about that?

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

 

New York flat fare on it's subways is $2.75 (about 90 Baht) in one of  the most expensive cities in the world. A flat fare of say 30 Baht on BTS and MRT in Bangkok would seem fair for here.

 

A country's train fare should be based on the average salary in one's country. 

 

You can't convert the fare from one currency to another while ignoring the fact that the wages in western countries are much higher than in Thailand.

 

For around $3, it is much cheaper than the exorbitant train fare in Thailand. No wonder the traffic jam in Bangkok is horrendous and the taxis keep ripping off foreigners.

 

 

 

 

 

[tgw]

7 minutes ago, EricTh said:

A country's train fare should be based on the average salary in one's country.

 

err... no.

completely no.

 

the first thing it should be based on is the cost of running the trains and of keeping them running in the future.

the second thing is what customers are ready to spend on a fare vs. capacity.

 

a country can decide to subsidize fares for lower incomes though.

Edited January 23, 2021 by tgw

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, KamnanT said:

I think they are suggesting the opposite: that the BTS not charge based on distance (like a taxi) but a flat fare as in cities like New York. Problem with this is that passengers travelling short distances would in essence be subsidising those that travel a long distance. Maybe this has some social merit, maybe not.

 

A third option would be for the government to heavily subsidise the entire system and make fares low enough that the BTS/MRT/SRT networks become so affordable that no one even questions that it the cheapest way to travel (like Singapore).  Of course, it's hard to afford such subsidies when there are submarines, aircraft carriers and dirigibles to be paid for.

I think you missed the sarcasm in blackcabs post. 

[Zack61]

In Melbourne Australia, if I’m not mistaken, a daily ticket max”s out at $9aud for the longer trips across 2 zones. 200 baht or 30 minutes of minimum wage. Great value and very comfortable outside of peak hours and footie matches at the MCG. Will be even better when they extend to the airport. 

[UncleE]

5 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

So by this logic a taxi should take me to Hua Hin for the same price as a trip just around the corner.

 

I'm all for it. Where do I sign up?

They're not talking about taxis Bro

[UncleE]

Just now, UncleE said:

They're not talking about taxis Bro

Should be like flying, large portion of cost is the gates, reservations, baggage loading etc etc.  Once in the air cost to a few more hours is very little extra.  Same deal with subways, cost to board + cost to sit.   And sitting is a lot cheaper than boarding.

 

[overt2016]

1 hour ago, Estrada said:

The New York flat fare for a single ticket was $3.00 (B100), not $2.75 and similar to the BTS, its' fare will shortly be increased to $4.00 (B122). The fact is that that the New York Metro was built in 1904 and is aging considerably, consequently there have been 64 major accidents on the system. It does not have modern signaling systems on all its' system, like the BTS has. If there was a flat fare of B30 the whole system would be overcrowded and without any profit, the maintenance of the system would suffer and trains, stations etc would start falling apart with frequent breakdowns, the same as the BMTA buses and SRT trains. 

 

Do you have a solution?

[mickyr55]

3 hours ago, KamnanT said:

I think they are suggesting the opposite: that the BTS not charge based on distance (like a taxi) but a flat fare as in cities like New York. Problem with this is that passengers travelling short distances would in essence be subsidising those that travel a long distance. Maybe this has some social merit, maybe not.

 

A third option would be for the government to heavily subsidise the entire system and make fares low enough that the BTS/MRT/SRT networks become so affordable that no one even questions that it the cheapest way to travel (like Singapore).  Of course, it's hard to afford such subsidies when there are submarines, aircraft carriers and dirigibles to be paid for.

And don't forget the spacecraft ????

[Classic Ray]

The proposed 104 baht maximum will allow a return on investment and maintenance of the service.

 

If the fare is unaffordable, the subsidy must come from the government to encourage less congestion and pollution on the roads and the waste of fuel from idling in jams.

 

But the rich politicians care not a jot for the poor travelling public and cannot see any benefit to themselves, so it’s not going to happen.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

5 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

 

New York flat fare on it's subways is $2.75 (about 90 Baht) in one of  the most expensive cities in the world. A flat fare of say 30 Baht on BTS and MRT in Bangkok would seem fair for here.

 

 

The flat fare system in Toronto, with some of the most expensive real estate in the world,  is CA$3 or 70 baht. I can go from Toronto Pearson Airport on a city express bus and then via subway to downtown (30 km), for the same total price, $3 or 70 baht. (Actually, I pay only the $2 senior's fare.) Mind you that was in fall, 2019, the last time I was there.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Kaoboi Bebobp
Extra detail