Is it possible to be blacklisted for breaking a work contract?

[Crunchy]

So let’s just say I know a teacher who may have worked for a school for almost 3 months. They signed a one year contract but they were never given a visa or work permit through this school. This teacher was working on a tourist visa. Due to poor work conditions also lack of visa assistance the teacher quits but the school director threatens to report said teacher to immigration. I guess I’m wondering is it possible for a school to get a teacher blacklisted in some way? Making it hard to enter the country again and pursue work? I have also heard that a teacher can be blacklisted by the teacher council for some period of time. Would something like this be possible if the teacher never legally worked there? Just wondering if a threat like this should be taken seriously or if it’s just angry nonsense. 

[ubonjoe]

The only was a person can be blacklisted is for commiting a crime and being prosecuted for it or a long overstay.

I don't think the school can prevent somebody from finding another job.

[Crunchy]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The only was a person can be blacklisted is for commiting a crime and being prosecuted for it or a long overstay.

I don't think the school can prevent somebody from finding another job.

And so this teacher shouldn’t have any problems with immigration then. Surely they couldn’t report the teacher without also reporting themselves? Could the same be said for the Thai council blacklist? If they never completed the process? 

[Ventenio]

36 minutes ago, Crunchy said:

it’s just angry nonsense.

yea, maybe if they prove you worked there you could be deported and fined ..... BUT I think the school would be fined 400,000 for having a teacher without a work permit. Of course, there may be connections.  

 

Odds of you having problems in a DIFFERENT province.....zero

 

but maybe don't go to the school next door

[bwpage3]

Working on a tourist visa is a big no-no.

 

If the school director has some connections in the police, I am sure this would NOT work out in your favor and maybe end up getting yourself deported.

 

Were you around previously when the government went province to province rounding up all the foreign teachers with no work permits?

 

Did not end well for them.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Crunchy said:

This teacher was working on a tourist visa.

Whatever happens, I have no sympathy for him. It's people like that that cause problems for all those that DON'T work illegally on tourist visas. It used to be easy to stay on tourist visas, and then it wasn't, probably because of people abusing the system.

IMO blacklisting is too slight a punishment. Should be deported and banned from ever returning to LOS, IMO.

[LomSak27]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

It's people like that that cause problems for all those that DON'T work illegally on tourist visas. It used to be easy to stay on tourist visas, and then it wasn't, probably because of people abusing the system.

 

I seriously doubt that had a gnat hairs to do with the governments decision to tighten up visa's across the board, tourist and long term. You just need something easy to blame. 

[Crunchy]

12 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Working on a tourist visa is a big no-no.

 

If the school director has some connections in the police, I am sure this would NOT work out in your favor and maybe end up getting yourself deported.

 

Were you around previously when the government went province to province rounding up all the foreign teachers with no work permits?

 

Did not end well for them.

Yeah no kidding it’s the reason they left. They wouldn’t provide it. Almost every school you go to these days has teachers working on tourists visas during an illegal 3 month probation period. 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

 

I seriously doubt that had a gnat hairs to do with the governments decision to tighten up visa's across the board, tourist and long term. You just need something easy to blame. 

LOL. I was actually visiting LOS when I could stay indefinitely on back to back visa exempt visits. Can't do that now.

Working on a tourist visa is a crime, end of.

[bwpage3]

3 minutes ago, Crunchy said:

Yeah no kidding it’s the reason they left. They wouldn’t provide it. Almost every school you go to these days has teachers working on tourists visas during an illegal 3 month probation period. 

Like I said, do a little research how many got banged up when the government went after them.

 

The problem is the law states NO working without a work permit.

 

If you start a job without a work permit, you are in violation of the law.

 

What kind of person would risk getting deported doing that? Think blaming it on the school is going to save you?

 

These schools know there are desperate foreigners who need a job and need money. They know these types will start work without a work permit and break the law solely to have money to survive on.

 

If you break the law in Thailand, any law, be prepared to pay the price.

 

If you need a job at a shady school to survive in Thailand as your only income, you probably shouldn't be there.

 

 

[Crunchy]

2 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Like I said, do a little research how many got banged up when the government went after them.

 

The problem is the law states NO working without a work permit.

 

If you start a job without a work permit, you are in violation of the law.

 

What kind of person would risk getting deported doing that? Think blaming it on the school is going to save you?

 

These schools know there are desperate foreigners who need a job and need money. They know these types will start work without a work permit and break the law solely to have money to survive on.

 

If you break the law in Thailand, any law, be prepared to pay the price.

 

If you need a job at a shady school to survive in Thailand as your only income, you probably shouldn't be there.

 

 

Well I agree it was a bad mistake. I think everyone in this thread knows that working illegally is indeed bad. But we should focus on the question at hand. If the school has connections it could end poorly. If the school does not have connections. Is it safe to assume said teacher could quit and break the contract in order to avoid working any more days illegally? 

[bwpage3]

11 minutes ago, Crunchy said:

Well I agree it was a bad mistake. I think everyone in this thread knows that working illegally is indeed bad. But we should focus on the question at hand. If the school has connections it could end poorly. If the school does not have connections. Is it safe to assume said teacher could quit and break the contract in order to avoid working any more days illegally? 

If the Director already made a threat, it would tell me he has some connections to make something bad happen.

 

Otherwise, why not just let the teacher walk?

 

He knows he has the teacher by the nuts now.

 

I think the only answer is you have to plan for the worst that could happen. If anything less than the worse happens you will be ok. If you can mitigate the worse, you would still be ok.

 

Some of these directors in power act like god and will deal out harsh punishment when they do not get their own way.

 

I think the authorities would ask why a teacher already spend 90 days working their without a work permit, instead of leaving in the first week or two?

 

100's of foreign teachers got banged up for working with no work permits. Ask yourself how the government knew where all these teachers were working at the schools they were at with no work permit? Someone must have ratted them out.

[Crunchy]

36 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

If the Director already made a threat, it would tell me he has some connections to make something bad happen.

 

Otherwise, why not just let the teacher walk?

 

He knows he has the teacher by the nuts now.

 

I think the only answer is you have to plan for the worst that could happen. If anything less than the worse happens you will be ok. If you can mitigate the worse, you would still be ok.

 

Some of these directors in power act like god and will deal out harsh punishment when they do not get their own way.

 

I think the authorities would ask why a teacher already spend 90 days working their without a work permit, instead of leaving in the first week or two?

 

100's of foreign teachers got banged up for working with no work permits. Ask yourself how the government knew where all these teachers were working at the schools they were at with no work permit? Someone must have ratted them out.

I think he really threatened him because the school was short handed at the time. So this whole thing with the teacher actually happened a while ago. Since then the teacher was able to re enter the country on another tourist visa without anyone flagging him. Is it safe to say he is in the clear to pursue a job legally? 

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Crunchy said:

I think he really threatened him because the school was short handed at the time. So this whole thing with the teacher actually happened a while ago. Since then the teacher was able to re enter the country on another tourist visa without anyone flagging him. Is it safe to say he is in the clear to pursue a job legally? 

Right now, you are in the clear, but I do not recommend you work again without a work permit.

[J Town]

I was once threatened by a school director who wanted to get the police involved. The problem was the director would have to admit wrongdoing, so we were at the classic Mexican standoff.

[jackdd]

On 5/7/2021 at 8:53 AM, bwpage3 said:

If the Director already made a threat, it would tell me he has some connections to make something bad happen.

Most people who spew threats don't have anything to back it up, it's just spews.

People who really have connections don't make those threats.

 

 

On 5/7/2021 at 8:36 AM, Crunchy said:

Is it safe to assume said teacher could quit and break the contract in order to avoid working any more days illegally? 

The school broke the contract by not providing a work permit.

Work contracts are only a civil matter anyway, if he thinks you broke the contract and wants some kind of compensation he would have to take you to court.

 

Working illegally is of course a different matter, but if he would inform the authorities that you worked illegally at his school, then he would be fined too, and they might also check if all the other foreigners at this school are working legally, and they might come back in the future to check this again. So obviously he won't inform the authorities about it.

[scorecard]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:14 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Whatever happens, I have no sympathy for him. It's people like that that cause problems for all those that DON'T work illegally on tourist visas. It used to be easy to stay on tourist visas, and then it wasn't, probably because of people abusing the system.

IMO blacklisting is too slight a punishment. Should be deported and banned from ever returning to LOS, IMO.

 

But let's keep in mind that most folks, when they arrive in Thailand, have zero/very little knowledge about visas, work permits etc., and it can be daunting.

 

Also, some admin. folks at schools have the 'idea' that they work in the office and therefore are powerful and they're going to use their 'power' (which is actually zero), to try to intimidate/frighten newbies. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by scorecard

[Ventenio]

I've NEVER seen someone start teaching, DAY 1, with a work permit.  Never.  Never will.  I've heard if the paperwork has been started.....blah, blah......bottom line is the school has power in the city.  sure.  of course they do.   especially a gov't school.  you think a gov't policeman will go bust a gov't school????    never seen it....... never will.  schools have parents (of course) and these parents work in the city.... blah blah.....  

 

that is all common sense.

 

what i've learned.  a contract is NOTHING without a work permit.  yes, you can try to sue them in Bangkok and do that.......or maybe they can try to sue you in Bangkok....  but the labor department asks one question, "let me see your work permit."   if you say, "bro, no have one."  then they refer you to the court system of Bangkok. 

 

my point.  if it's out of the hands of the labor department, you are not getting "officially" blacklisted, whatever that really means.  probably myth anyhow.  

[Ventenio]

On 5/7/2021 at 8:14 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Should be deported and banned from ever returning to LOS, IMO.

 

most of these people have Thai families.   YES, destroy the Thai family!!!!  Deport the bread winner!!!  Never, EVER let them see their Thai kids and wife ever again!!!!

 

Great Idea.   I know about 10 teachers with families that HAD once worked on a tourist visa.    Can we deport them all????  10 families destroyed.    This is a great idea.

 

I came to Thailand to embrace others, be nice, meditate, and relax...

 

forget that!!!!!  deport them all!!!!!!!!!!  lol.  

[Crunchy]

4 hours ago, J Town said:

I was once threatened by a school director who wanted to get the police involved. The problem was the director would have to admit wrongdoing, so we were at the classic Mexican standoff.

I assume you were able to walk away from the situation then? 

[Crunchy]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

Most people who spew threats don't have anything to back it up, it's just spews.

People who really have connections don't make those threats.

 

 

The school broke the contract by not providing a work permit.

Work contracts are only a civil matter anyway, if he thinks you broke the contract and wants some kind of compensation he would have to take you to court.

 

Working illegally is of course a different matter, but if he would inform the authorities that you worked illegally at his school, then he would be fined too, and they might also check if all the other foreigners at this school are working legally, and they might come back in the future to check this again. So obviously he won't inform the authorities about it.

This logic is kind of what I figured. It’s just a bit scary when you’re new to the country and your employer starts hard balling you like that. So without a work permit the contract would be useless then. I just hear of some teachers getting blacklisted by the teaching council but I assume without a work permit and without the teaching license or waiver being provided it would be hard for the school to achieve this legally? 

[richard_smith237]

Mindless threats of a juvenile mind...  This school director's threats carry as much weight as a girl threatening to get the guy blacklisted after he breaks up with her !!!.....

Edited May 8, 2021 by richard_smith237

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Soi dogs make a lot of noise. Keep walking, they won't bite.

[J Town]

2 hours ago, Crunchy said:

I assume you were able to walk away from the situation then? 

Yes. The director couldn't take me to task without implicating self crime.

[from the home of CC]

no wonder Thai education is doing so well with these 'teachers' lol...

[geisha]

Hé / she broke the law. Ok, her story is, if asked, because she didn’t get a work visa, she stopped straight away. The person should move somewhere else, out of reach of the school, and start again, only with a work visa next time. 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

13 hours ago, geisha said:

start again, only with a work visa next time.

And therein lies the problem. There simply is no starting at a school with a work visa.

 

Perhaps only for a head teaching position at one of the top five BKK intl schools, who can sort things quickly as there's millions of baht involved. 99% of the schools in Thailand do not enjoy such status.

 

These schools must organize paperwork for immigration for the Non-B. That takes time. They must organize paperwork for the labor dept for the work permit. That takes time. They must organize paperwork for the teacher's council for the teaching license, including the teacher's diploma which sometimes has to be verified. These parties often poorly communicate and must be prodded so that the ridiculous process can proceed, which in my experience takes 3-4 months.

 

This time is lengthened if there's something the council doesn't like about the diploma, or if the teacher has worked at several different schools, and they don't like the number of temporary licenses they've received. The time is lengthened if the teacher's been hired through an agency, which is often the case, who act as an additional step between all parties involved, and are almost always horribly incompetent.

 

The school won't start the ball rolling on any of this until they've completed the interview, perhaps made the teacher perform some dog and pony demo lessons, and made them sign the contract. The school then says great, welcome aboard, we'll get started on your paperwork.

 

Now for the kicker. Please pay close attention, as I really fail to understand why this topic must be discussed over and over, and yet many still fail to understand it.

 

You honestly believe the school now says, "Ok, sit back in your apartment watching Netflix or whatever, and please wait the next 3-4 months as you really can't be working without a permit." Uh huh. They expect you to work. They might call it a "probation period", they might say "it's ok, your visa's being processed". But yeah, it's technically illegal. Welcome to Thailand.

[BangkokReady]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:21 AM, Ventenio said:

I came to Thailand to embrace others, be nice, meditate, and relax...

 

I don't understand how someone can come to Thailand and be the exact opposite of Thais.  It's like they want to benefit from the kind and relaxed nature for themselves, but still want to be judgmental and cruel to every other foreigner if they get the chance.  I have seen it way too much.