Pattaya A Dead or Dying City?

[Henryford]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

   Spot on.  I've mentioned several times living at Lumpini Park Beach and it being so uncrowded even though there are 1800 mostly sold units.  Our next-door neighbors on either side owned the larger 2 bedroom units.  Both nice families from Bangkok.  They only visited a few times a year--usually on long holiday weekends. 

     We also met college professors and Thais in medical fields that also had weekend getaways they had bought--both at Park Beach and Lumpini Seaview behind it.  And, also at Centric Sea when we lived there.  Definitely growing numbers that can afford a small place at the beach.  

   The last project we owned at was at a small project of just 39 large 3 and 4 bedroom condos and a few townhouses right on the beach in Wongamat.  One Bangkok family owned an entire floor of the condos.  I think there were only about 8 condos being lived-in full time.  The rest absentee Thai owners and some wealthy Western owners that came during the winter.   

    

 

Are all these absent owners paying their annual common fees? The late payers in my condo are always the ones who don't live there.

[newnative]

8 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

 

 

doesn't qualify as "terrific facilities" to me. Perhaps someone coming from a bedsitter in the city centre might be impressed. They seem almost standard to me. Yoga room? What is that? Just a space. Kid's pool? Standard. Fitness centre? Standard. Kid's playroom? Standard. Salon and spa services? Standard. Even the lowliest of complexes will have private facilities.  Rooftop pool? Again, an 8k per month rental can have a rooftop swimming pool. 

It's all to distract from the fact that you have no space and that you are paying for things that you can get nearby for much less. Salon and spa service? Walk one hundred metres and get the same service for one fifth of the price. There's a sucker born every minute.

     You might not think the amenities I mentioned are terrific but some others might.  I didn't say all of them would appeal to me as a buyer or renter--I have no need for a boxing ring.  I was making the observation that this is the trend with new condo projects--both in Pattaya and Bangkok.  Take a close look at the new Riviera Jomtien sometime.  You will find the amenities far outpace older condo projects--which often came with just a pool and gym.  That's the trend for now--for better or worse.   Compare Riviera with older projects like the View Talays, which only have pools as the sole amenity.

     Obviously, as a buyer or renter you can decide what appeals to you in condo living.  Some might choose an older project offering larger condos--my choice--and some might want one of the newer projects with smaller units but more amenities.  Nice to have choices, I think.  

[DerbyDan]

?

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by DerbyDan

[DerbyDan]

2 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

On the other hand The Winner 1, few dozens meter from here, is totally fine with a decent amount of people living inside

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/projects/the-winner-gkxwgz

 

i rented a monthly unit at winner 1. i got there early and the landkord, a russian guy, was sweeping a females clothing and shoes out of the unit. the entire building was empty the whole time. even building reception never showed up.

 

when i left at the end of the month the landlord never showed and i just left the keys on the counter and left the door unlocked.

Edited May 18, 2021 by DerbyDan

[kingofthemountain]

10 minutes ago, DerbyDan said:

 

i lived at winner 1 for 3 months. the entire place was @rap empty. even reception never bothered to show up.

To be honest that was the first place i visited more than 3 years ago when i was searching for a condo to rent in Pattaya, and i really liked it

 

Unfortunately someone made a better offer than me to the owner, so i have to search somewhere else

 

I found something not far from The Winner and i stayed at this place during 1 year

 

I have now changed my location and i haven't been back in Pratamnak area since months

 

i am sorry to know The Winner is now in the sad state you describe

imo the location and the building were nice

Edited May 18, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[Bruno123]

21 minutes ago, newnative said:

     You might not think the amenities I mentioned are terrific but some others might.  I didn't say all of them would appeal to me as a buyer or renter--I have no need for a boxing ring.  I was making the observation that this is the trend with new condo projects--both in Pattaya and Bangkok.  Take a close look at the new Riviera Jomtien sometime.  You will find the amenities far outpace older condo projects--which often came with just a pool and gym.  That's the trend for now--for better or worse.   Compare Riviera with older projects like the View Talays, which only have pools as the sole amenity.

     Obviously, as a buyer or renter you can decide what appeals to you in condo living.  Some might choose an older project offering larger condos--my choice--and some might want one of the newer projects with smaller units but more amenities.  Nice to have choices, I think.  

 

 

You used the word "terrific". That would indicate that you thought them terrific.

We weren't writing about trends, we were writing about a particular 'lifestyle' project.

Amenities far outpacing older projects are again just your words and your opinion. Comparing Riviera and View Talay is somewhat disingenuous. Why not compare with an older luxury development? You know; one with tennis and squash courts and gardens and lots of space. Marble and wood utilised throughout; as opposed to vague "superior materials". You know that kind of thing? Actual luxury as opposed to a pretend lifestyle that involves cramped living spaces and shared facilities that you will likely rarely utilise; but for which you pay through the nose anyway.

Nice location but that's about it.

 

 

 

[DerbyDan]

13 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

To be honest that was the first place i visited more than 3 years ago when i was searching for a condo to rent in Pattaya, and i really liked it

 

Unfortunately someone made a better offer than me to the owner, so i have to search somewhere else

 

I found something not far from The Winner and i stayed at this place during 1 year

 

I have now changed my location and i haven't been back in Pratamnak area since months

 

i am sorry to know The Winner is now in the sad state you describe

imo the location and the building were nice

 

well i actually liked it. i like empty buildings and the rooftop pool and units were nice. it was just weird being there alone.

 

its all russian owned. they only show up certain times of the year. they are real calendar people.

 

theres a bulletin board by the elevators with units available if it sounds like your jam.

Edited May 18, 2021 by DerbyDan

[J Town]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

 

Are all these absent owners paying their annual common fees? The late payers in my condo are always the ones who don't live there.

The place I live in, the builder wants to make it a short time hotel. Mind you, these are luxurious - 148 sq meters, incredible view. He paid all the common fees of those in arrears with the caveat he gets to vote for them by proxy. He now has the votes and I'm in the middle of moving out at this very moment.

[tomyami]

when i went recently to look at condo any size below 30sqm is a shoe box ok 4 a couple of days with the nice facilaties but the have built to many and are trying to also market as long term where they are only hotel rooms then i prefer to stay in a hotel.

The future traveller will be more short term is the target market then ok

wont be me I have left wont be back for a couple of years.

Edited May 18, 2021 by tomyami

[ChipButty]

1 hour ago, J Town said:

The place I live in, the builder wants to make it a short time hotel. Mind you, these are luxurious - 148 sq meters, incredible view. He paid all the common fees of those in arrears with the caveat he gets to vote for them by proxy. He now has the votes and I'm in the middle of moving out at this very moment.

You should stick around for a while, could be fun "Short time Hotel" 

[J Town]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

You should stick around for a while, could be fun "Short time Hotel" 

Noooooooooooo. Plenty of those around, precisely why I moved to a place that WASN'T such. I get your humor and I'll pass thank you.

[kuma]

7 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

I don’t think people get that there is a lot of very rich Thais . They have become land rich (land price in a reasonable area is obscene ) in the last 30 years . My BIL owns around 8 condos in various parts of the country that he bought for cash and can’t be bothered with the hassle of renting them out!  and only sees and stays in them if he’s in that area of the country and can even remembers where they are ! Thailand has a lot of very rich people and a growing upper middle class. I think we get blinkered sometimes in Believing that all Thais come from the poorer tourist sectors .  

Good of you to use the polite term blinkered. I have lived and worked here almost 20 years now and in the professions, for international private sector companies, the compensation packages can be very lucrative for locals, especially those that had land/homes to begin with, and for sure those that made wise choices in terms of capital deployment into more land or rental units have done very well....I know of so many just within my careeer circles. But the demographic of posters here is heavily skewed to part time visitors and/or retirees that tend to stay firmly in the areas heavily populated w foreigners (ie tourist zones mostly) and as such they have little interaction / realization with / of the local middle class. Not an indictment, just an observation. Out here in the south east beyond Chonburi there is a lot of wealth and a lot wealty bkk people buying land and bringing more prosperity.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, Bruno123 said:

 

 

You used the word "terrific". That would indicate that you thought them terrific.

We weren't writing about trends, we were writing about a particular 'lifestyle' project.

Amenities far outpacing older projects are again just your words and your opinion. Comparing Riviera and View Talay is somewhat disingenuous. Why not compare with an older luxury development? You know; one with tennis and squash courts and gardens and lots of space. Marble and wood utilised throughout; as opposed to vague "superior materials". You know that kind of thing? Actual luxury as opposed to a pretend lifestyle that involves cramped living spaces and shared facilities that you will likely rarely utilise; but for which you pay through the nose anyway.

Nice location but that's about it.

 

 

 

     Still shooting the messenger.    Yes, some of the amenities in the new projects are terrific.  I said not all of them would appeal to me--and mentioned the boxing ring.  I'm certainly missing my condo's pool, gym,  library, and ping pong.  All terrific, by the way.

    I was originally commenting on your complaint that new condos are shoeboxes in good locations.  I agreed that, yes, they are but I was also pointing out that that is the trend--and they do come with a lot of amenities to try to make up for the small unit sizes. I don't know what you mean by 'lifestyle project'.  

    You may not have been writing about trends but I was--and the View Talays and the Riviera projects are great examples of the point I was making.  I used them because both have some units for sale at around the same price points for what I am talking about.

    11 years ago when my partner and I came to Pattaya the VTs were probably the biggest game in town if you wanted to live in a seaview condo and your budget was maybe around 3 or 4 MB.  We ended up living in VT3, VT5C and D, and VT7.

    They were all highrises, each with lots of units and a big pool.   Small, open-air lobbies with a couch or two.  Some shops on the first floor.   Not enough elevators, in my opinion. The condos were sold as empty shells, without a finished floor or kitchen.  And, that was about it.  

    Fast forward to today and what is now being built in comparison to the View Talays of 11 years ago.  Going shopping for a condo and having a 3MB budget, you can still buy a 48sqm studio with a seaview at, say, VT7.  Your single amenity will be the one pool.  

    For that same 3MB, you can get a smaller 27sqm studio with a seaview at Riviera Jomtien.  In contrast to the VTs, Riviera has 2 sky pools and a third large lagoon pool.  Outdoor sky gardens and deck areas.  Billiards room.  Very large, air-conditioned gym.  Several very nicely decorated sky lounges and lobbies scattered all over.   Outdoor ping pong--something I hadn't seen before and it looked fun.  As did the Secret Garden.  

     I don't live in View Talay now or Riviera.  What I thought was interesting was the contrast between the two and how projects have changed in the last few years.  Markland, Jomtien Plaza, Metro, Pattaya Hill, and some other projects of the VT era could also have been used.  With the number of new and old projects in Pattaya you have a good selection to rent or buy depending on what appeals to you.  

     

[DerbyDan]

4 hours ago, tomyami said:

when i went recently to look at condo any size below 30sqm is a shoe box ok 4 a couple of days with the nice facilaties but the have built to many and are trying to also market as long term where they are only hotel rooms then i prefer to stay in a hotel.

The future traveller will be more short term is the target market then ok

wont be me I have left wont be back for a couple of years.

have fun in hawaii

[chrisandsu]

3 hours ago, kuma said:

Good of you to use the polite term blinkered. I have lived and worked here almost 20 years now and in the professions, for international private sector companies, the compensation packages can be very lucrative for locals, especially those that had land/homes to begin with, and for sure those that made wise choices in terms of capital deployment into more land or rental units have done very well....I know of so many just within my careeer circles. But the demographic of posters here is heavily skewed to part time visitors and/or retirees that tend to stay firmly in the areas heavily populated w foreigners (ie tourist zones mostly) and as such they have little interaction / realization with / of the local middle class. Not an indictment, just an observation. Out here in the south east beyond Chonburi there is a lot of wealth and a lot wealty bkk people buying land and bringing more prosperity.

I can see why though . Most of Pattayas Thai residents  are from  the issarn corridor , it has and probably always will be cut off from metropolitan Bangkok areas where a lot of the money is (rayong as well) it’s like a country within a country . 

[Bruno123]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

     Still shooting the messenger.    Yes, some of the amenities in the new projects are terrific.  I said not all of them would appeal to me--and mentioned the boxing ring.  I'm certainly missing my condo's pool, gym,  library, and ping pong.  All terrific, by the way.

    I was originally commenting on your complaint that new condos are shoeboxes in good locations.  I agreed that, yes, they are but I was also pointing out that that is the trend--and they do come with a lot of amenities to try to make up for the small unit sizes. I don't know what you mean by 'lifestyle project'.  

    You may not have been writing about trends but I was--and the View Talays and the Riviera projects are great examples of the point I was making.  I used them because both have some units for sale at around the same price points for what I am talking about.

    11 years ago when my partner and I came to Pattaya the VTs were probably the biggest game in town if you wanted to live in a seaview condo and your budget was maybe around 3 or 4 MB.  We ended up living in VT3, VT5C and D, and VT7.

    They were all highrises, each with lots of units and a big pool.   Small, open-air lobbies with a couch or two.  Some shops on the first floor.   Not enough elevators, in my opinion. The condos were sold as empty shells, without a finished floor or kitchen.  And, that was about it.  

    Fast forward to today and what is now being built in comparison to the View Talays of 11 years ago.  Going shopping for a condo and having a 3MB budget, you can still buy a 48sqm studio with a seaview at, say, VT7.  Your single amenity will be the one pool.  

    For that same 3MB, you can get a smaller 27sqm studio with a seaview at Riviera Jomtien.  In contrast to the VTs, Riviera has 2 sky pools and a third large lagoon pool.  Outdoor sky gardens and deck areas.  Billiards room.  Very large, air-conditioned gym.  Several very nicely decorated sky lounges and lobbies scattered all over.   Outdoor ping pong--something I hadn't seen before and it looked fun.  As did the Secret Garden.  

     I don't live in View Talay now or Riviera.  What I thought was interesting was the contrast between the two and how projects have changed in the last few years.  Markland, Jomtien Plaza, Metro, Pattaya Hill, and some other projects of the VT era could also have been used.  With the number of new and old projects in Pattaya you have a good selection to rent or buy depending on what appeals to you.  

     

 

 

Lost interest after the first two terrifics. I hope there isn't anything important in there as I haven't bothered to read anything after that. Spoiled it for yourself. Maybe someone else will take an interest; then it won't have all been for nothing.

[kuma]

13 hours ago, DerbyDan said:

 

well i actually liked it. i like empty buildings and the rooftop pool and units were nice. it was just weird being there alone.

 

its all russian owned. they only show up certain times of the year. they are real calendar people.

 

theres a bulletin board by the elevators with units available if it sounds like your jam.

real calendar people lmao...yea working people from a northern country, wonder what they will do? Hmmm lets look at snowbirds in NA and see if there are similarities....fml

[elgenon]

On 5/16/2021 at 8:10 PM, AlfHuy said:

Which idiot would pay for a girl, telling some porkpies via video call.

My bud met a guy who had his system down. Had many videos to make the "girls" seem really interested in the dudes. I forget the details he told me. He was sad he wasn't tech enough to follow suit. Though I think he had some compunctions.

 

The guy was making very good money. The girls weren't. Guys want to believe. 

[elgenon]

On 5/16/2021 at 8:54 PM, J Town said:

I watched a view of the livestreams. They're quite boring if you've actually been to a Soi 6 bar, but there were HUNDREDS of guys from around the world buying the girls "drinks" - colored water at 150 baht/drink. The money was pouring in.

If you feel you are getting a fair return, what the heck. If not, smarten up.

 

Yes, there is money to be made. But I couldn't do it.

[J Town]

1 minute ago, elgenon said:

If you feel you are getting a fair return, what the heck. If not, smarten up.

 

Yes, there is money to be made. But I couldn't do it.

My son back in the states was one of those numb nuts sending money to a girl working Soi 6 cam scam. He thought they had a "connection" and had a personal joke they shared. I went to visit her and she had no idea who my son was or what I was referring to. I got him to stop sending her money. In his defense, she WAS cute. I tried to do a short time, she declined saying she was making WAY too much money with the cam scam and didn't need the wet work.

[elgenon]

14 minutes ago, J Town said:

My son back in the states was one of those numb nuts sending money to a girl working Soi 6 cam scam. He thought they had a "connection" and had a personal joke they shared. I went to visit her and she had no idea who my son was or what I was referring to. I got him to stop sending her money. In his defense, she WAS cute. I tried to do a short time, she declined saying she was making WAY too much money with the cam scam and didn't need the wet work.

Sorry for your son.  Why was she at the bar?

[J Town]

4 minutes ago, elgenon said:

Sorry for your son.  Why was she at the bar?

The girls dance in front of a web cam scantily clothed, then broadcast on Facebook so the desperate dogs can comment, professing their undying love. There is a sign saying 150 baht per drink and a link to Paypal the money. Literally hundreds of guys are constantly viewing and a lot of them sending money for colored water (drinks). She was working there cuz she was making bank for dancing in front of a cam!

[elgenon]

Just now, J Town said:

The girls dance in front of a web cam scantily clothed, then broadcast on Facebook so the desperate dogs can comment, professing their undying love. There is a sign saying 150 baht per drink and a link to Paypal the money. Literally hundreds of guys are constantly viewing and a lot of them sending money for colored water (drinks). She was working there cuz she was making bank for dancing in front of a cam!

They have it down.

[Rimmer]

Off topic post removed

[FalangJaiDee]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:33 AM, J Town said:

If anyone read "The Dark Tower" series, they'll understand the term "the world has moved on."  Yes, everything is shut down by decree and will probably go on an "open/shut" roller coaster for a year or two.

 

The sex industry was Pattaya's forte. That's been demolished. The girls found out they can make a fortune online without ever swapping bodily fluids. I don't think it will ever return to its glorious apex of the previous decade. I'm just seriously grateful I got in as many soapies as I did!

 

The world has moved on.

Only the top 1% of girls are making any kind of appreciable money to the degree they can stop getting plugged IRL. It will live on 

[J Town]

22 minutes ago, FalangJaiDee said:

Only the top 1% of girls are making any kind of appreciable money to the degree they can stop getting plugged IRL. It will live on 

You fail to realize these are a bunch of desperate, lonely guys all around the planet. What you and I would barely consider a 2 or 3 are angels in these guys' eyes.

[FalangJaiDee]

25 minutes ago, J Town said:

You fail to realize these are a bunch of desperate, lonely guys all around the planet. What you and I would barely consider a 2 or 3 are angels in these guys' eyes.

Pretty sad stuff. I was loitering with this girl drinking a Leo outside her bar and she told me this Swiss pilot guy gave her 200k baht for staying with him for 2 months. 
 

she was 25, looked haggard, definitely a delusional price point 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, FalangJaiDee said:

Only the top 1% of girls are making any kind of appreciable money to the degree they can stop getting plugged IRL. It will live on 

Of course it will live on to some degree, but it might be reduced to the pitiful level of Chiang Mai, where the bars are a bad joke. They were so pathetic that I just couldn't be bothered, and I used to be a bar addict in Pattaya. I couldn't even find a decent soapy. There was one in a big hotel, but it had been closed permanently.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, FalangJaiDee said:

Pretty sad stuff. I was loitering with this girl drinking a Leo outside her bar and she told me this Swiss pilot guy gave her 200k baht for staying with him for 2 months. 
 

she was 25, looked haggard, definitely a delusional price point 

Perhaps she was bonzer in bed.

[DerbyDan]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course it will live on to some degree, but it might be reduced to the pitiful level of Chiang Mai, where the bars are a bad joke. They were so pathetic that I just couldn't be bothered, and I used to be a bar addict in Pattaya. I couldn't even find a decent soapy. There was one in a big hotel, but it had been closed permanently.

 

The soapies there cater to chinese these days. Your lucky if you are admitted and would be odd man out (unless u r chinese).

Edited May 20, 2021 by DerbyDan