Pattaya A Dead or Dying City?

[johng]

3 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

what's going on inside this establishment.

 

Sauna and massage  "perfectly legit govner"  ????

[kingofthemountain]

Just now, Mr Meeseeks said:

Indeed, but then would they amend a constitution to effectively write themselves out of a very lucrative money pit?

 

There will be too many fingers in pies by the time the next rewrite comes around to do anything about it.

 

Same goes for the upper house of unelected senators. 

The next to comes to take their part of the pie in few years

will be the ones who rewrite or amend it if necessary.

All the past history of Thailand is about it

As for the EEC, mark my words, in 10 years it will be a forgotten word

with only few derelicts buildings and abandoned fields remaining as

a proof of its existence

again nothing new in Thailand

[J Town]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

The world has moved on from physical sex? 

Girls making a fortune online? 

I seriously doubt both your claims. 

You obviously never read the books so you don't get the reference.

[orchidfan]

On 5/12/2021 at 1:17 PM, Danderman123 said:

There is no question that some fraction of people in Isaan go to college. But, given the vast tonnage of rice harvested in Isaan, somebody is working in the rice fields. And by "somebody", I mean a lot of people. 

Recent trip to far NE Isaan over Songkran....first time back in a few years.

Now nearly all the rice farming is now mechanized with Kubota tractors and harvesters. A few men doing what hundreds of family members used to do by hand. 

A lot has changed and young people leave for a paying job.

One I know one who went to Samut Prakhan to work in a factory.  

Now in hospital with pretty bad Covid19. 

Great!

[Golden Triangle]

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Some truth here and I have heard this discussed with connected Thai friends whom are deeply embarrassed by the sex tourism image Pattaya cultivates right in the heart of the golden jewel of the Eastern Economic Corridor. 

 

So maybe your connected Thai friends should have a word with the also connected Thais ( Police/Army/Politicos ) who own and operate probably 90% or more of the sex for sale establishments in and around the Pattaya area, or do you deny this truth that is obvious to most people ? Except you of course, and for those of us that have been here long enough also recognise the signs for love hotels, Thai only karaoke and massage parlours. Stop trying to blame the foreigner for the stigma attached to Thailand as a country that has sex for sale in cities, towns & villages across the length & breadth of the country.

[Cletus]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:47 AM, spidermike007 said:

Few areas will revert back to normal. Tourism, especially. The target group for Thailand tourism was hit hard by this insane international economic shutdown. It was the first time in history it ever happened.

 

Few tourists here for nearly two years, by the time they open up again. Many will be afraid of crowded airports and airplanes. Everything will be different. Without sounding like a prophet of doom, everything will be different. Many industries will recover. But tourism here has taken a huge hit. And it will take alot to bring it back, to re-boot the infrastructure, and get it going again. Nothing can be taken for granted. 

 

Also, many tourism problems existed long before Covid. None were addressed. None. And they did not just go away. Thailand is being forgotten the longer time goes by. 

 

Thailand needs the world 10x more than the world needs Thailand. The authorities still don't get that. 

 

You sound like a prophet of disgrace.

Should learn to watch at the glass as half full, you clearly haven't learned much from Thailand all these years.

[J Town]

37 minutes ago, Cletus said:

On 5/13/2021 at 1:47 PM, spidermike007 said:

Few areas will revert back to normal. <snip>

You sound like a prophet of disgrace.

Should learn to watch at the glass as half full, you clearly haven't learned much from Thailand all these years.

You're new here.

 

Spidermike007 is a thoughtful member who always gives insightful perspectives. While we don't always agree, I respect his posts. You should learn to "read the room" before berating a long term member.

[Bangkok Barry]

On 5/12/2021 at 11:03 AM, soi3eddie said:

 

I grew up on the south coast of the UK. In winters the resort areas were shuttered and deserted. The only difference with Pattaya is at least the rain is warm and it's often sunny.

 

 

[Logosone]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:47 AM, spidermike007 said:

Few areas will revert back to normal. Tourism, especially. The target group for Thailand tourism was hit hard by this insane international economic shutdown. It was the first time in history it ever happened.

 

Few tourists here for nearly two years, by the time they open up again. Many will be afraid of crowded airports and airplanes. Everything will be different. Without sounding like a prophet of doom, everything will be different. Many industries will recover. But tourism here has taken a huge hit. And it will take alot to bring it back, to re-boot the infrastructure, and get it going again. Nothing can be taken for granted. 

 

Also, many tourism problems existed long before Covid. None were addressed. None. And they did not just go away. Thailand is being forgotten the longer time goes by. 

 

Thailand needs the world 10x more than the world needs Thailand. The authorities still don't get that. 

I think unfortunately many thai service providers, restaurants, bars etc, will try to ensure themselves against something like this happening again by targeting Thai tourists more and more, Chinese and less and less Western tourists. This alone will turn off Western tourists who will not like the feeling of being 3rd class tourists, with everything geared towards Thais, Chinese and so it will be a self-fulfilling path. The mere risk of another virus lockdown will result in less offers towards Western tourists. One can see it already in Chiang Mai, with many of the typical Western tourist places gone and everyone talking about targeting Thai and Chinese tourists.

 

Sadly the British and Americans didn't help this situation by keeping their vaccines for themselves. Sure, they may emerge a few days earlier from lockdown, but at the cost of forcing all of Europe to lag behind in vaccination, particularly Germany whose Turkish led Biontech has been selling their vaccine primarily abroad, unlike AstraZeneca which prioritised the British. Because Europe will be seen by Thais as the unlikely high risk group that will probably not be coming any time soon, this will of course affect the tourist offers for Brits and Americans, but they don't realise this.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Logosone

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

I think unfortunately many thai service providers, restaurants, bars etc, will try to ensure themselves against something like this happening again by targeting Thai tourists more and more, Chinese and less and less Western tourists. This alone will turn off Western tourists who will not like the feeling of being 3rd class tourists, with everything geared towards Thais, Chinese and so it will be a self-fulfilling path. The mere risk of another virus lockdown will result in less offers towards Western tourists. One can see it already in Chiang Mai, with many of the typical Western tourist places gone and everyone talking about targeting Thai and Chinese tourists.

 

Sadly the British and Americans didn't help this situation by keeping their vaccines for themselves. Sure, they may emerge a few days earlier from lockdown, but at the cost of forcing all of Europe to lag behind in vaccination, particularly Germany whose Turkish led Biontech has been selling their vaccine primarily abroad, unlike AstraZeneca which prioritised the British. Because Europe will be seen by Thais as the unlikely high risk group that will probably not be coming any time soon, this will of course affect the tourist offers for Brits and Americans, but they don't realise this.

 

Thai's will not / can not pay farang prices, so in order for what you describe to happen, there would have to be a market correction in commercial property rents, and if such a correction was to occur, this is favourable to businesses catering for western tourist, and western tourism themselves. 

 

[Maha Sarakham]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

One can see it already in Chiang Mai, with many of the typical Western tourist places gone and everyone talking about targeting Thai and Chinese tourists.

 

I mean, we all knew it was going to happen.  It was just a matter of how soon.  This whole situation just paved the way for the shift to happen sooner. 

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Thai's will not / can not pay farang prices, so in order for what you describe to happen, there would have to be a market correction in commercial property rents, and if such a correction was to occur, this is favourable to businesses catering for western tourist, and western tourism themselves. 

 

 

While the purchasing power of the Thai middle class is somewhat less, undoubtedly, there are also Chinese, Koreans etc, and given the chaos which Germany, France and most of Europe are now in, thanks to the betrayal by the Anglo-Saxons in keeping vaccines for themselves and their own stupidity of allowing the mass-export of their own vaccine, I wonder if large parts of Europe will fancy large scale travel if they have to keep quarantine for 2 weeks when they come back.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but if I was Thai, I certainly wouldn't bet on German, French, European tourists, and by themselves the British and Americans are just too small a group to matter. I would do everything to get Thai, Chinese, Korean tourists, which appears to be what most are doing now.

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Maha Sarakham said:

 

I mean, we all knew it was going to happen.  It was just a matter of how soon.  This whole situation just paved the way for the shift to happen sooner. 

Indeed. We have seen this virus basically accelerate existing trends, same with the closures of retail stores on the high street, the push towards plastic payment. Covid is a big accelerator of underlying trends.

[Leaver]

11 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

While the purchasing power of the Thai middle class is somewhat less, undoubtedly, there are also Chinese, Koreans etc, and given the chaos which Germany, France and most of Europe are now in, thanks to the betrayal by the Anglo-Saxons in keeping vaccines for themselves and their own stupidity of allowing the mass-export of their own vaccine, I wonder if large parts of Europe will fancy large scale travel if they have to keep quarantine for 2 weeks when they come back.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but if I was Thai, I certainly wouldn't bet on German, French, European tourists, and by themselves the British and Americans are just too small a group to matter. I would do everything to get Thai, Chinese, Korean tourists, which appears to be what most are doing now.

 

Thailand is around 12 months away, at best, for vaccinating around 65% of the Thai population, and opening borders.  Europe will be well ahead by the time Thailand opens up for business.  

[soi3eddie]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

I certainly wouldn't bet on German, French, European tourists, and by themselves the British and Americans are just too small a group to matter

Wrong; more British and American tourists to Thailand than German or French in 2019 accodring to this source.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by soi3eddie

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, soi3eddie said:

Wrong; more British and American tourists to Thailand than German or French in 2019 accodring to this source.

 

 

 

Wrong, Russian tourists alone in 2019 outnumbered British by a very large margin.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

Yes, there is a little more British than Germans in Thailand, by a tiny margin, but once you factor in all of Europe the Brits and Americans are a much smaller group.

 

 

[Logosone]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Thailand is around 12 months away, at best, for vaccinating around 65% of the Thai population, and opening borders.  Europe will be well ahead by the time Thailand opens up for business.  

 

It doesn't matter, because Thais are already in Thailand, Europeans have to contend with their own very slow vaccination and quarantine. Thais are already there. And the Chinese will be way ahead. I don't think Thais will gear up for Europeans, more likely for Chinese and Thais.

[soi3eddie]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

I certainly wouldn't bet on German, French, European tourists, and by themselves the British and Americans are just too small a group to matter

Just now, Logosone said:

  1 hour ago, soi3eddie said:

Wrong; more British and American tourists to Thailand than German or French in 2019 accodring to this source.

 

Just now, Logosone said:

 

Wrong, Russian tourists alone in 2019 outnumbered British by a very large margin.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

Yes, there is a little more British than Germans in Thailand, by a tiny margin, but once you factor in all of Europe the Brits and Americans are a much smaller group.

 

 

 

The comparison was British and Americans vs Germans and French numbers.

 

[The Hammer2021]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:50 AM, Sticky Rice Balls said:

Someone please think of the poor thieving Pattaya ladyboys looking for gold wearing fools...

Another  fantasize living in the sensationalist  headlines...probably  never been here but wants a lady boy..LOL

[elgenon]

On 5/11/2021 at 8:33 PM, J Town said:

If anyone read "The Dark Tower" series, they'll understand the term "the world has moved on."  Yes, everything is shut down by decree and will probably go on an "open/shut" roller coaster for a year or two.

 

The sex industry was Pattaya's forte. That's been demolished. The girls found out they can make a fortune online without ever swapping bodily fluids. I don't think it will ever return to its glorious apex of the previous decade. I'm just seriously grateful I got in as many soapies as I did!

 

The world has moved on.

Wow! How do they make a fortune online? I want to tell some girls.

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, connda said:

I was here in the 1980s.  It wasn't a "family resort", but it was very laid back.  I liked it.  Returned in 2000, didn't like it, left, never returned.  Not my cup of tea.

I seem to remember there being a lot of Germans here, many oil-field and Middle East workers and tourist 'families', even older couples, were quite rare.... and wide eyed! The girls were just making a living and offering great company. Very different place....

[1FinickyOne]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:36 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

A golden opportunity wasted.

Sure, rip it all down and then build back to your specifications... not likely a profitable venture... places like Pattaya are built the way they are for profit... which is not a concern for you... 

[hotchilli]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:19 AM, 4MyEgo said:

It doesn't take much these days with technology to create fear, TV, media and some ugly looking dudes in suits who are in powerful positions, also wearing a mask, and having been vaccinated.

 

The light at the end of the tunnel are vaccines, and for those who take them, you will be rewarded and get your vaccine passports to travel and life will be back to normal.

 

We can then live happily ever after.

What you say is correct, vaccines will eventually allow movement and that in turn will slowly turn the clock back to better times.

However this has shown that Pattaya and other resorts just how dependent they were on international tourism, that means the local business is not enough to sustain them in bad times.. 

Have they learnt anything and changed the business model at all or are they just hanging on to the old style and hope for boom times again...

Time will tell.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/15/2021 at 5:21 AM, soi3eddie said:

 

Couldn't it be the case that tourists spending money in Pattaya would be supporting business owners and workers who could then be buying new cars on the profits of their endeavours?

 

On the wages that are paid to WORKERS, I very much doubt that many, if any, of them were, or will be buying NEW cars. I'm talking about cleaners and receptionists, not management and owners.

[rott]

On 5/15/2021 at 7:06 AM, Henryford said:

Despite the dead/dying image it's surprising how much development is still going on. Driving around town i see many new condos being finished off. Look at that monster on Jomtien beach near the Night Market. Also Tree Town has many new bars including that posh one with the swimming pool. So someone must think things will get better soon.

Not being argumentative just curious, these "new" bars at Tree Town exactly how recent are they.? Or do you mean all the bars there as it is a relatively new development. 

And can you give the location of the posh one with the swimming pool, this intrigues me. 

Thanks. 

[BenDeCosta]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

What you say is correct, vaccines will eventually allow movement and that in turn will slowly turn the clock back to better times.

 

 

Watch out for propaganda that I have noticed has already started to appear. Things such as "we don't know how many new variants there will be and if the vaccine will work for them too", or "the vaccine isn't as effective as we thought" - and things like this will be used as an excuse to keep restrictions in place. If I was a gambling man I would bet that things will still not be back to normal 100% in a year's time. 

[rott]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:58 PM, spidermike007 said:

They were not being filled. My five star GM friend has pointed out that Thailand has had one of the lowest occupancy rates of any of the worldwide Amari properties, over the past five years. We all assume much market research goes into the development of those properties. I think that is often not the case here. Vacancy is very high in alot of office and condo buildings now. As well as alot of malls. Over development is not necessarily a sign of a healthy economy. 

 

Another friend of mine is dating a woman who is a senior exec with one of Thailand's largest developers. They are shutting down 120 projects next month. That represents 100% of their projects nationwide. Some of it is Covid related. Some of it is just insane, overly optimistic projections. 

 

Build it, and they will come. Not necessarily. 

I look forward to next month and you being able to give us the details of at least some of the projects that are being shut down. Unless of course you are able to do so now. Nowt like a bit of schadenfreude in the mornings and closing all jobs sounds pretty drastic. 

 

[J Town]

2 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

Watch out for propaganda that I have noticed has already started to appear. Things such as "we don't know how many new variants there will be and if the vaccine will work for them too", or "the vaccine isn't as effective as we thought" - and things like this will be used as an excuse to keep restrictions in place. If I was a gambling man I would bet that things will still not be back to normal 100% in a year's time. 

I don't think that's propaganda. We will never know how many new variants there will be, and China already admitted their vaccine ain't exactly efficient.

 

On that bet, I'm with you. It will take much more than a year to get back to anything resembling normal.

[J Town]

3 minutes ago, rott said:

I look forward to next month and you being able to give us the details of at least some of the projects that are being shut down. Unless of course you are able to do so now. Nowt like a bit of schadenfreude in the mornings and closing all jobs sounds pretty drastic. 

 

You argue with facts? Again, Spidermike007 doesn't tell tales of fancy. And all you have to do is look outside to see the tumbleweeds rolling down the streets.

 

Nobody is happy about things, and this is worldwide.

[jacko45k]

13 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

Watch out for propaganda that I have noticed has already started to appear. Things such as "we don't know how many new variants there will be and if the vaccine will work for them too", or "the vaccine isn't as effective as we thought" - and things like this will be used as an excuse to keep restrictions in place. If I was a gambling man I would bet that things will still not be back to normal 100% in a year's time. 

Really.... the news I saw today was a bit more positive, in that vaccines are apparently effective in suppressing the Indian variant, currently a big deal in UK and India. Negative news was that it is  more infectious was a concern, because a section of society becoming victim, have avoided being vaccinated, likely due to the stupid, uneducated braying of the conspiracy believers and promoters. Also ironic, these people likely brought the variant into the UK.