Coronavirus Lab-Leak Theory Gets Another Look

[Pattaya Spotter]

14 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I love debating with people whose opinion is different than mine, as long as arguments are without undue bias, remains civil and don't get personal or devolve into a lame pissing match.

Sounds like a great forum...what's the name?

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I wouldn't waste my time in replies to some of our esteemed fellow board members as it's clear they have a political agenda. I mean, they probably credit the current administration with the record discovery and rollout of the game changing mRNA vaccines. I agree with you that there is likely no evil intent on the scientists who were downplaying the possibility of a "lab leak," but their professional associations, current research, and future grant proposals were dependent on continued funding of "gain of function" and other coronavirus research so they naturally didn't want the public to gain a negative opinion of such research, nor for this worldwide pandemic to be associated with it.

I'm not political.  Just against those who support dodgy politicians.  Life Trump.  You seemed to have liked him.

 

Gain of function seems to be the buzz word from the conspiracy theory and right wing media outlets.  Pretty sure you like these.  No doubt it occurs, but it's blown way out of proportion here.  Just for clicks.

[Jeffr2]

58 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

SORRY THIS TURNED OUT TO BE A LONG REPLY...I hope you actually read it in its' entirety.

 

In response to your last several post, it's really not my responsibility to dig up references to information I have read or heard to prove my points. 

 

I don't even expect you to take my word for anything I've said.  I'm only saying that you can not know the truth simply from a single source, or multiple sources with a common bias.

 

I form the opinions that i share herre on this forum as a result of hearing or reading dozens of medical / science journals and watching numerous newscasts & interview type shows from all around the world.  I constantly have the TV on listening for new content as I do my work, so I really do not bookmark all of that simply to prove my points here on this forum.

 

I often don't remember who said what, but over time I form an opinion that's based on examining all different views.  I listen to what's said on CNN just as seriously as what I hear on Fox News, but neither of them are a sole basis for forming an opinion.  I always feel like you have to dig a lot deeper than that.

 

Perhaps this is a perverse hobby for me, but being as well informed as possible is just something I enjoy doing, and I take it pretty seriously.

 

All I'm saying is a person has to do some serious due diligence on their own, from a variety of unbiased and credible sources, and when you do that, you end up with a completely different perspective than if you only listen to CNN or only listen to Fox News.  Unfortunately, most people only get their news from one single source, and that's why people's view become so strongly polarized along political lines.

 

As for the NYT, it used to be my favorite source of news when I was growing up.  Before the internet, I had a subscription and read it cover to cover every single day, and with the Sunday edition, it was a day long treat just to go through it all, section by section.  At that time, It truly lived up to its' slogan, "All the news that's fit to print"

 

Unfortunately today it has lost much of its' journalistic integrity and become very politically biased, and much more of a sensationalistic type publication, printing whatever will "hook" the reader's attention.

 

However, and very surprisingly, there was an article that appeared in the NYT itself on March 24 that was very telling.  It surprised me becuase, as the NYT said, the story they were reporting on was like "...holding up a mirror to our work and giving us a chance to do better..."  THAT, to me was a pretty unusual thing for the NYT to say, and to print an article that was critical of U.S.  Media was even more of a shock. 

 

In my opinion it happens to be an outstanding article written by the New York TImes about an even more outstanding research study!

 

The New York Times article was titled:
Bad News Bias:  The U.S. media is offering a different picture of Covid-19 from science journals or the international media, a study finds.

 

The key remark in that article for me was this one:

• The researchers say they are not sure what explains their findings, but they do have a leading contender: The U.S. media is giving the audience what it wants.

Everyone should read this article simply becuase it is a remarkably unbiased assessment of how Covid-19 has been reported by mainstream media during the last year, and it is written by a publication that would be least expected to release such a story.  It is an excellent read! 

 

For me, that is the main problem with journalism today.  Publications like the NYT and CNN, Fox, and most of the mainstream media are no longer focused on delivering legitimate journalism so that people can think for themselves and form their own opinions.

 

Instead they simply deliver news story that they know will "hook" their audience.  They do it by delivering sensationalism, not by delivering the news.  And often there are powerful interest in the shadows, dictating what stories should be told, and which should not.

 

Journalism is no longer the "Fourth Estate" that is so important as a means to hold government and large corporations accountable.  It has become just a purely commercial enterprise and often a propaganda tool for powerful interests

 

Yes it is your responsibility to show proof of your allegations.  I actually got a warning here for saying something and then not backing it up with a credible link.

 

So...still waiting for links to back up your allegations.  One was posted above showing the NYT is a great media outlet.  Hope you read it.  Those who tend to bash the NYT and CNN have fallen for the fake news right wing media outlets.  IMHO, ignore the opinion pieces, and these are fine media outlets.

[Jeffr2]

I hope you two read this.  Lays things out very well.

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/the-wuhan-lab-and-the-gain-of-function-disagreement/

 

[TeaMonkey]

The National Institutes of Health funnelled $3.4 million to the Wuhan lab through the non-profit EcoHealth Alliance from 2014 to 2019, for the purpose of researching bat coronaviruses. Peter Daszak who is president of EcoHealth Alliance has done his best to discredit the notion that the coronavirus was man-made. In February he signed a statement published in The Lancet medical journal "We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin". He was also a member of the WHO investigation into the origin of the virus.

This is Peter Daszak in 2016, in a forum discussing “emerging infectious diseases and the next pandemic”.

 

“Then when you get a sequence of a virus, and it looks like a relative of a known nasty pathogen, just like we did with SARS. We found other coronaviruses in bats, a whole host of them, some of them looked very similar to SARS. So we sequenced the spike protein: the protein that attaches to cells. Then we…

Well I didn’t do this work, but my colleagues in China did the work. You create pseudo particles, you insert the spike proteins from those viruses, see if they bind to human cells. At each step of this you move closer and closer to this virus could really become pathogenic in people.

“You end up with a small number of viruses that really do look like killers,” he adds.

Timestamp: 1:16:50

https://www.c-span.org/video/?404875-1/pandemics

[TeaMonkey]

The Science Suggests a Wuhan Lab Leak

The Covid-19 pathogen has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.

 

“the most compelling reason to favour the lab leak hypothesis”. It is the fact that SARS-CoV-2 has a genetic feature that has never been observed in natural SARS-like coronaviruses, but which is the preferred feature for scientists when engineering viruses in the lab. It’s preferred because it is simpler and more familiar for lab workers, and also because it can then be used as a tell-tale marker of the engineered virus when tracking it in the lab.

 

The genome of SARS-CoV-2 includes as part of its genetic coding of the spike protein a sequence known as “double CGG” (CGG-CGG) that codes for two “arginine” amino acids in a row. Quay and Muller explain that there are 35 other possibilities that could occur in this location, known as the “furin cleavage site”, which would not disadvantage the virus in any way so are equally likely to be selected for by natural fitness. Furthermore, viruses often evolve by picking up genetic code from other viruses (known as recombination), but since double CGG doesn’t exist in nature for SARS-like viruses (or didn’t before SARS-CoV-2) this common route of picking it up is not available, making its appearance in a new coronavirus even less likely.

On the other hand, double CGG is the most commonly used sequence for lab workers when engineering the furin cleavage site in gain-of-function research, because it is readily available and familiar and can then be used to track the engineered virus.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

[WaveHunter]

56 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Yes it is your responsibility to show proof of your allegations.  I actually got a warning here for saying something and then not backing it up with a credible link.

 

So...still waiting for links to back up your allegations.  One was posted above showing the NYT is a great media outlet.  Hope you read it.  Those who tend to bash the NYT and CNN have fallen for the fake news right wing media outlets.  IMHO, ignore the opinion pieces, and these are fine media outlets.

LOL, I provided that link about NYT being a great media outlet (in one specific instance)..so I hope YOU read it.  It was a great article becuase it painted an unbiased look at how biased mass media has actually been with respect to Covid.

 

It is NOT my responsibility to show proof of my opinions becuase I never stated them as facts, and only said there was strong evidence to support them from credible sources.  I could waste my times digging up some references only to have you refute them becuase of course, the evidence is still incomplete, so what's the point in that?

 

My whole point in all of this discussion is that there is indeed credible evidence.  It's all out there in the public domain for anybody to explore.  If you choose to do that, you may change your views.  If you do not explore it, you are simply not being objective.

 

It's up to you to take that step, not me, not me.

Edited June 11, 2021 by WaveHunter

[xylophone]

13 minutes ago, TeaMonkey said:

The Science Suggests a Wuhan Lab Leak

The Covid-19 pathogen has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.

 

“the most compelling reason to favour the lab leak hypothesis”. It is the fact that SARS-CoV-2 has a genetic feature that has never been observed in natural SARS-like coronaviruses, but which is the preferred feature for scientists when engineering viruses in the lab. It’s preferred because it is simpler and more familiar for lab workers, and also because it can then be used as a tell-tale marker of the engineered virus when tracking it in the lab.

 

The genome of SARS-CoV-2 includes as part of its genetic coding of the spike protein a sequence known as “double CGG” (CGG-CGG) that codes for two “arginine” amino acids in a row. Quay and Muller explain that there are 35 other possibilities that could occur in this location, known as the “furin cleavage site”, which would not disadvantage the virus in any way so are equally likely to be selected for by natural fitness. Furthermore, viruses often evolve by picking up genetic code from other viruses (known as recombination), but since double CGG doesn’t exist in nature for SARS-like viruses (or didn’t before SARS-CoV-2) this common route of picking it up is not available, making its appearance in a new coronavirus even less likely.

On the other hand, double CGG is the most commonly used sequence for lab workers when engineering the furin cleavage site in gain-of-function research, because it is readily available and familiar and can then be used to track the engineered virus.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

So this article from a publication with a right wing bias SUGGESTS it could be a lab leak...............but that means nothing now it has happened. Now the world has to find a way to deal with it!

 

If we keep going back to find the source then the British could go back to find out from whence the Bubonic Plague rats came, in order to blame that country.  And did HIV become known as the Congo virus???? Perhaps we could learn from this.

[WaveHunter]

44 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

I hope you two read this.  Lays things out very well.

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/the-wuhan-lab-and-the-gain-of-function-disagreement/

 

I actually did read that article, but I have a real problem with so-called "fact checker" site becuase you have to ask yourself, "who checks the fact checkers"?

 

Again I make the point that you can not rely on others to tell you what is true and what is not.  You need to find out for yourself, and that involves a LOT of reading and a LOT of listening to what scientists, politicians ,and other influencers have to say, some of which you may even vehemently disagree with and don't like...and then deciding for yourself what is true, and that part is the hardest part of it all.

 

I'm not saying my opinions reflect the truth; I'm only saying they reflect the quest for truth.

Edited June 11, 2021 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Sounds like a great forum...what's the name?

LOL...good one ????  Believe it or not there are some pretty smart,  impressive, and friendly people on this forum.

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

28 minutes ago, xylophone said:

If we keep going back to find the source then the British could go back to find out from whence the Bubonic Plague rats came, in order to blame that country.

The NEWS pages of the WSJ are considered by most observers to be "non-biased [as far as that goes]"...the opinion page and some of it's "op-ed" contributors and regular columnists are certainly conservative (or as you choose to say "right-wing).

 

The purpose in investigating the virus origins is, of course, no to assign "blame," ("responsibility" might be a better term) but to better understand how/why it caused a human pandemic so as to prevent it from happening again (as far as is possible).

Edited June 11, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[Pattaya Spotter]

8 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

LOL...good one ????  Believe it or not there are some pretty smart,  impressive, and friendly people on this forum.

 

True...I've interacted with a few but they're out-numbered 10-1 by the tossers. Thankfully there's the "ignore" function, which I've liberally used so that my T-V interlocutors have a fairly high IQ now.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[WaveHunter]

21 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

True...I've interacted with a few but they're out-numbered 10-1 by the tossers.

I know...that's the challenge.  People seem attracted to this forum (or any forum for that matter) for one of three reason:

 

1) to ask a specific question about living here in the Magic Kingdom, like where to shop, good restaurants, advice on dealing with Immigration, or of course, how to get yourself registered for a vaccination LOL!

 

2) To discuss current events and have lively discussions and debates about them, that focus on the topic, not the person with opposing views.

 

and then finally the third group:

 

3) People that are basically unhappy and bitter expats that don't really like living here but do so only becuase it is cheap and affordable.  They don't appreciate the things that makes Thailand such a unique and inviting place, and hate anyone who doesn't feel the same.

 

Their only goal in the forum seems to be to sow discontent with anyone who does not feel the same way as they do, attacking them personally, and derailing their threads as much as possible.

 

I guess it's that way on any public forum, and luckily the latter category is always in the minority.

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by WaveHunter

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

3) People that are basically unhappy and bitter expats that don't really like living here but do so only becuase it is cheap and affordable.  They don't appreciate the things that makes Thailand such a unique and inviting place, and hate anyone who doesn't feel the same.

Men that don't appreciate younger and easily available women ......... surely not?

(nothing else unique or inviting here)

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, TeaMonkey said:

The Science Suggests a Wuhan Lab Leak

The Covid-19 pathogen has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.

 

“the most compelling reason to favour the lab leak hypothesis”. It is the fact that SARS-CoV-2 has a genetic feature that has never been observed in natural SARS-like coronaviruses, but which is the preferred feature for scientists when engineering viruses in the lab. It’s preferred because it is simpler and more familiar for lab workers, and also because it can then be used as a tell-tale marker of the engineered virus when tracking it in the lab.

 

The genome of SARS-CoV-2 includes as part of its genetic coding of the spike protein a sequence known as “double CGG” (CGG-CGG) that codes for two “arginine” amino acids in a row. Quay and Muller explain that there are 35 other possibilities that could occur in this location, known as the “furin cleavage site”, which would not disadvantage the virus in any way so are equally likely to be selected for by natural fitness. Furthermore, viruses often evolve by picking up genetic code from other viruses (known as recombination), but since double CGG doesn’t exist in nature for SARS-like viruses (or didn’t before SARS-CoV-2) this common route of picking it up is not available, making its appearance in a new coronavirus even less likely.

On the other hand, double CGG is the most commonly used sequence for lab workers when engineering the furin cleavage site in gain-of-function research, because it is readily available and familiar and can then be used to track the engineered virus.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

US scientist says he overstated Wuhan lab-leak ‘smoking gun’

A Nobel prize-winning US biologist, who has been widely quoted describing a “smoking gun” to support the thesis that Covid-19 was genetically modified and escaped from a Wuhan lab, has said he overstated the case...

Originally quoted in an article in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists in May, and widely requoted since, Baltimore had appeared to suggest that a specific feature in Covid-19’s genome, known as the furin cleavage site, was the “smoking gun” to the theory the virus had been contained inside a laboratory and then escaped via a leak...

In recent days, however, Prof Baltimore has told a fellow researcher, the scientific journal Nature and the LA Times that – while he had been quoted accurately in the bulletin – he should not have used the phrase “smoking gun” and was uncertain what the feature proved regarding the origins of the virus – natural or otherwise.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/us-scientist-says-he-overstated-wuhan-lab-leak-smoking-gun-1.4588965

 

.

[WaveHunter]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I'm not political.  Just against those who support dodgy politicians.  Life Trump.  You seemed to have liked him.

 

Gain of function seems to be the buzz word from the conspiracy theory and right wing media outlets.  Pretty sure you like these.  No doubt it occurs, but it's blown way out of proportion here.  Just for clicks.

First of all I am not a political person; I actually hate politics and politicians for the most part becuase their main expertise, no matter what side of the aisle they are on, is that they are gifted at making compelling arguments against their adversaries just to promote their own agenda, regardless of the truth.  Politicians are just a necessary evil, otherwise we'd have anarchy

 

I was going to say a lot more on this since you made an unfounded and personally directed assumption about my own political leanings, but I'm not going to since that is not the topic of discussion, and I don't care to have political discussion on this forum anymore since they are pointless and usually just lead to personal and mean-spirited arguments.

 

As for the term "gain of function", it is not a catchword of conspiracy theorists; it is a legitimate branch of epidemiological research that's conducted not only in China but the US, and many other countries as well.  It's aim is a good one; to study altered viruses that could harm humans in the laboratory, before they appear by natural means, but it's obviously an incredibly dangerous endeavor if such a virus is allowed to escape the lab.

 

How anyone could not be concerned that this might of happened is completely beyond me.  China has a history of poor safety when it comes to such laboratories, and there is simply so much growing evidence that it happened, and so much growing evidence that a natural zoonotic crossover to humans was unlikely.

 

Is there definitive proof it actually happened?  Not yet.  But the bits and pieces of evidence are starting to come together.  I think it's fair to say that only time will tell what really happened...but the truth will come out in the end.  It has to, or we'll be facing another crisis like this one in the near future.

 

You can call this all just one big conspiracy theory with no factual basis, but most false conspiracy theories grow weaker as time passes, not stronger, which is what's happening with this one.

 

I'm not saying you should believe it, but you should explore it in an unbiased way, instead of just blindly accepting what someone else tells you is true.

Edited June 11, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

 

How anyone could not be concerned that this might of happened is completely beyond me.

Because if the lab leak hypothesis is found to be true, it would vindicate President Trump's, and other Trump administration official's, statements on the pandemic’s origin...something that can never be allowed to happen by some people.

 

As to why understanding Sars-Cov2 and its origins is so important: Three deadly coronavirus jumps to humans in twenty years - 

 

Sars-Cov-1 ~ 8% mortality and 800 deaths,

 

MERS ~ 30% mortality and almost 900 deaths,

 

Sars-Cov-2 ~ 1-2% mortality and almost 4M deaths. 

 

What if the next virus has a mortality rate between Sars-Cov-1 and MERS and the transmisability of Sars-Cov-2? The only thing that saved the world the first two times was the difficulty of transmission and the lack of non-asymtomatic presentation of infected persons.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002–2004_SARS_outbreak

 

http://www.emro.who.int/health-topics/mers-cov/mers-outbreaks.html

 

https://covid19.who.int/

Edited June 11, 2021 by Pattaya Spotter

[Jeffr2]

16 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

LOL, I provided that link about NYT being a great media outlet (in one specific instance)..so I hope YOU read it.  It was a great article becuase it painted an unbiased look at how biased mass media has actually been with respect to Covid.

 

It is NOT my responsibility to show proof of my opinions becuase I never stated them as facts, and only said there was strong evidence to support them from credible sources.  I could waste my times digging up some references only to have you refute them becuase of course, the evidence is still incomplete, so what's the point in that?

 

My whole point in all of this discussion is that there is indeed credible evidence.  It's all out there in the public domain for anybody to explore.  If you choose to do that, you may change your views.  If you do not explore it, you are simply not being objective.

 

It's up to you to take that step, not me, not me.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/11/business/media/pulitzer-prizes.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210611&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=80027960&segment_id=60485&user_id=1298cdda864738dcf5f5cb52747197da

 

Pulitzer Prizes Focus on Coverage of Pandemic and Law Enforcement

The annual awards recognized journalism on the murder of George Floyd, including a special citation for Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed the killing. The public service prize went to The New York Times for Covid coverage.

[Jeffr2]

13 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Because if the lab leak hypothesis is found to be true, it would vindicate President Trump's, and other Trump administration official's, statements on the pandemic’s origin...something that can never be allowed to happen by some people.

 

As to why understanding Sars-Cov2 and its origins is so important: Three deadly coronavirus jumps to humans in twenty years - 

 

Sars-Cov-1 ~ 8% mortality and 800 deaths,

 

MERS ~ 30% mortality and almost 900 deaths,

 

Sars-Cov-2 ~ 1-2% mortality and almost 4M deaths. 

 

What if the next virus has a mortality rate between Sars-Cov-1 and MERS and the transmisability of Sars-Cov-2? The only thing that saved the world the first two times was the difficulty of transmission and the lack of non-asymtomatic presentation of infected persons.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002–2004_SARS_outbreak

 

http://www.emro.who.int/health-topics/mers-cov/mers-outbreaks.html

 

https://covid19.who.int/

Why make this political?  P.S. It isn't to a vast majority of us.

[Jeffr2]

16 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

I actually did read that article, but I have a real problem with so-called "fact checker" site becuase you have to ask yourself, "who checks the fact checkers"?

 

Again I make the point that you can not rely on others to tell you what is true and what is not.  You need to find out for yourself, and that involves a LOT of reading and a LOT of listening to what scientists, politicians ,and other influencers have to say, some of which you may even vehemently disagree with and don't like...and then deciding for yourself what is true, and that part is the hardest part of it all.

 

I'm not saying my opinions reflect the truth; I'm only saying they reflect the quest for truth.

that is one of the most reputable sites out there.  Sad times when people question things like this rather than study the information.

[Jeffr2]

17 hours ago, TeaMonkey said:

The Science Suggests a Wuhan Lab Leak

The Covid-19 pathogen has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.

 

“the most compelling reason to favour the lab leak hypothesis”. It is the fact that SARS-CoV-2 has a genetic feature that has never been observed in natural SARS-like coronaviruses, but which is the preferred feature for scientists when engineering viruses in the lab. It’s preferred because it is simpler and more familiar for lab workers, and also because it can then be used as a tell-tale marker of the engineered virus when tracking it in the lab.

 

The genome of SARS-CoV-2 includes as part of its genetic coding of the spike protein a sequence known as “double CGG” (CGG-CGG) that codes for two “arginine” amino acids in a row. Quay and Muller explain that there are 35 other possibilities that could occur in this location, known as the “furin cleavage site”, which would not disadvantage the virus in any way so are equally likely to be selected for by natural fitness. Furthermore, viruses often evolve by picking up genetic code from other viruses (known as recombination), but since double CGG doesn’t exist in nature for SARS-like viruses (or didn’t before SARS-CoV-2) this common route of picking it up is not available, making its appearance in a new coronavirus even less likely.

On the other hand, double CGG is the most commonly used sequence for lab workers when engineering the furin cleavage site in gain-of-function research, because it is readily available and familiar and can then be used to track the engineered virus.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

that's an opinion piece.  Not scientific proof.  Just someone's opinion.  I've got one also.  As do you.

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

that is one of the most reputable sites out there.  Sad times when people question things like this rather than study the information.

You keep missing my point.  If you rely on someone else to tell you what is true and what is not, you are simply not being objective.  I have seen a number of things on various so-called fact checker sites that were only politically biased, but later proved to be wrong.

 

Again, how do you know that the fact checker are correct? Who is checking the fact checkers?  You can only know the truth by exploring both sides of a debate form a number of different sources (both those you lean towards and those you oppose), and then deciding for yourself what is true and what is not.

 

From the way you talk and the sources you provide to backup your views, you are obviously only looking at one side of the picture.

 

I gave you a link to the NYT article, written by a publisher that I currently detest just to show you there is indeed a dark side to how the media is covering Covid-related matters, but it sounds like you did not even read it...and that is a publication that you think tells no lies.  So, why didn't you read it, and if you did, why are you silent on what it had to say?

 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

that's an opinion piece.  Not scientific proof.  Just someone's opinion.  I've got one also.  As do you.

Right now, EVERYTHING is an "opinion piece".  Until there is overwhelming evidence that something is true, everything is only "opinion". 

 

That doesn't make the opinion invalid, especially if the opinion is from an expert in the field. 

 

Being an expert in the field is what give the opinion relevancy and weight, so it should be taken much more seriously that a lay opinion from somebody like you or me, or a so-called "fact checkers".

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/11/business/media/pulitzer-prizes.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210611&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=80027960&segment_id=60485&user_id=1298cdda864738dcf5f5cb52747197da

 

Pulitzer Prizes Focus on Coverage of Pandemic and Law Enforcement

The annual awards recognized journalism on the murder of George Floyd, including a special citation for Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed the killing. The public service prize went to The New York Times for Covid coverage.

What on earth does that prove?  Are you saying a Pulitzer prize nomination automatically confers that something is true?  That's nonsense.  Donald Trump was nominated for a Nobel Prize.  From your perspective, just how would you explain that?

[placeholder]

16 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Because if the lab leak hypothesis is found to be true, it would vindicate President Trump's, and other Trump administration official's, statements on the pandemic’s origin...something that can never be allowed to happen by some 

As for a possible reason why ex-President Trump may have been disbelieved, I suggest you consult the  scholarly treatise entitled

The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/9/2021 at 2:19 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Until 100% proven. It's a possibility. Though a rare one according to the scientists.

If the possibilities are that

a/ it jumped from an animal to humans ( most probably a bat that was eaten )

b/ it is the result of human error in a laboratory that was apparently studying corona viruses in bats

 

the lab leak wins every time, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/12/2021 at 3:29 PM, WaveHunter said:

From the way you talk and the sources you provide to backup your views, you are obviously only looking at one side of the picture.

Indeed.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:22 PM, WaveHunter said:

3) People that are basically unhappy and bitter expats that don't really like living here but do so only becuase it is cheap and affordable.  They don't appreciate the things that makes Thailand such a unique and inviting place, and hate anyone who doesn't feel the same.

Plus those that were not living in LOS but still personally attacked anyone that disagreed with their point of view. Used to be found in abundance on a certain subforum that has vanished, along with many of them.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/11/2021 at 10:18 PM, WaveHunter said:

You can call this all just one big conspiracy theory with no factual basis, but most false conspiracy theories grow weaker as time passes, not stronger, which is what's happening with this one.

At this time a lab leak is just as valid a theory as an animal to human infection. The reasons for disparaging the lab leak are not able to be discussed on here given they are IMO purely political.

[SunnyinBangrak]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If the possibilities are that

a/ it jumped from an animal to humans ( most probably a bat that was eaten )

b/ it is the result of human error in a laboratory that was apparently studying corona viruses in bats

 

the lab leak wins every time, IMO.

To recap, there are 2 options.

 1) A bat that lives over 1,000km away in a cave - which just happened to be carrying a very peculiar strain of coronavirus with traits that appear non-natural gets lost and ends up in an inner city Wuhan market. While in this market the bat forgets it is an insect eater and decides to try eating a pangolin, it failed but did manage to infect the poor pangolin with the virus. 3 researchers that just happened to be working at the Wuhan institute of virology, which manipulates coronaviruses to make them more lethal and transmissible for humans, partly on the US taxpayers dime, then ate the pangolin and also became infected. It spread around the world.

 

or 2) It was a lab leak from a dodgy lab that was studying these exact types of jacked up coronavirus.

 

Tough one!!