Immigration "tea Money"

[NoshowJones]

On 7/21/2021 at 6:34 PM, IvorBiggun2 said:

I really don't believe that. If you do everything by the book you have nothing to worry about. 

Yes, you are right. They can try and frighten you, but as long as you know 100% you are in the right, do not be frightened to challenge them, also use the same tone of voice to them as they are using to you.

[mancub]

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Extortion is an extremely serious offense and trust me, the authorities are clamping down on such activities in the police force, according to a friend of mine, a deputy commissioner of police. 

 

 

Which authorities would those be ?

[Saltire]

Slightly off- topic, but posts like these make me realise how lucky I am with my IO. In 4 years no real issues worth moaning about.

 

However, we have been thinking of moving to a long term rental in another province, and top of my list is the reputation of the IO I would be using. There are for sure some to avoid if you want a quiet life.

[HAPPYNUFF]

Receipt????   You want receipt???????     Receipt cost  you extra.

[mrfaroukh]

It depend which country passport you have. My friend had Denmark passport. He could not speak English. I went with him to immigration in Jomtien. Filled up a form to change his tourist visa to Non immigrant O visa and paid I think 1800 Bhat, then got a letter from embassy that his retirement pension is more than 65000 Bhat a month. Next day went to immigration again filled up retirement application form and paid 1800 Bhat and got it after a day. Next applied for single re entry visa and paid 1000 Bhat. So total payment was 4800 Bhat. 

 

If you don't have 800000 Bhat in the bank or your pension is less than 65000 Bhat a month or you are from certain countries you have to pay much more probably between 13000 to 25000 Bhat. 

[NoshowJones]

On 7/21/2021 at 6:34 PM, IvorBiggun2 said:

I really don't believe that. If you do everything by the book you have nothing to worry about. 

Not true, there are some IOs who have their own interpretation of the rules. Also, there is no such thing as "by the book" anywhere as far as I'm concerned, If I think anything is unfair, I will try and work my way around it.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/22/2021 at 8:51 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Therein lay the problem.

 

On one hand you have farangs who pay agents 20,000 plus to get them their "illegal" extensions because they don't have the required funds and the IO's get their share.

 

If you on the other hand have met the requirements you SHOULD take a polite stand with a smile and say, I thought about it and decided that it is not right, please process my application and if it is not approved, please advise the reasons so I can take it from there, i.e. leave that comment open, don't be soft with them, your weakness is their strength.

 

Should you agree the bribe, you are only making it worse for yourself in the future and everyone else, these clowns need to be put in their places and if you are not big enough of a man, they you deserve what you get, end of story. 

This is an excellent post.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

I just want my visa.

 

I don't want to make waves with immigration.

Welcome to the "scared of your own shadow" brigade. ????

[MrJ2U]

47 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

This is an excellent post.

Doesn't work that way in Thailand unfortunately.

 

 

[gearbox]

20 hours ago, Neeranam said:

 

 

This is not the same, Immigration is part of the police force, not a private company!  

 

I think everyone agrees that it is wrong and they should be reported. Where to report them is the issue for most people. 

 

Reporting won't achieve much. There would be small victories here and there, but most of the things will stay intact.

The whole system is designed and geared to facilitate extortion and corruption. The customer must be "conditioned" with inconveniences, like opaque rules, requirements to appear in person, tons of useless documents provided, etc. At some point some customers will be exhausted and agitated, and will pay tea money indirectly by engaging an agent which "adds value". Other will be directly asked for tea money in order to 'speed the things up" and relieve them from their pain.

I went through the same process as the OP (in regards to changing a TR visa to Non-O), and had to make 5 multi-hours trips to the immigration. Do you need to provide a printed Google satellite map with latitude/ longtitude of your residence to Lazada or the post office to get your goods delivered? They seem to have ways to find you where you live, it is called an address. What about the ridiculous drawn by hand maps of your surroundings?

 

If there was a desire from the upper echelon to fight corruption, they could just issue orders from tomorrow all the offices to apply the same rules..and move many of the processes online. For example why one needs to apply in person for reentry permit? Are there any cases of anyone got reentry permit refused?

[The Hammer2021]

On 7/21/2021 at 9:38 PM, greenmonkey said:

I'm sorry but I would not pay that... I wouldn't pay anything, not a bean! My guess is that if you go along with this kind of thing in the first place and they will try it on more and more. You kinda making your bed as the saying goes. Next time you record them on your phone asking for a bribe and then after that you have nothing to worry about.

You obviously  have no idea what you are talking about. Have no experience  of the issue. You are giving terrible  advice based on a complete  misunderstanding of how the system  effectively  operates in giving latitude to senior IO officials  to deal with individuals  cases on a case  by case basis. Such services  are necessarily  mediated  by an agent and are an excellent  service used by thousands  of people often  whom have more  than sufficient  funds to meet IO requirements  but not funds  organised on the regular monthly  pension profile or the continually locked in 800k system. The key to ease of loving in Asia  and the Middle East  is knowing good agents to assist you with language, cultural  and beuractatic issues. 

[Pappap]

20 hours ago, gearbox said:

Reporting won't achieve much. There would be small victories here and there, but most of the things will stay intact.

The whole system is designed and geared to facilitate extortion and corruption. The customer must be "conditioned" with inconveniences, like opaque rules, requirements to appear in person, tons of useless documents provided, etc. At some point some customers will be exhausted and agitated, and will pay tea money indirectly by engaging an agent which "adds value". Other will be directly asked for tea money in order to 'speed the things up" and relieve them from their pain.

I went through the same process as the OP (in regards to changing a TR visa to Non-O), and had to make 5 multi-hours trips to the immigration. Do you need to provide a printed Google satellite map with latitude/ longtitude of your residence to Lazada or the post office to get your goods delivered? They seem to have ways to find you where you live, it is called an address. What about the ridiculous drawn by hand maps of your surroundings?

 

If there was a desire from the upper echelon to fight corruption, they could just issue orders from tomorrow all the offices to apply the same rules..and move many of the processes online. For example why one needs to apply in person for reentry permit? Are there any cases of anyone got reentry permit refused?

A balanced and well written article at last, thank god you understand the additional issues attached to dealing with people who can make life way too difficult if they so wish, irrelevant if everything is in order, as required by law, they have a warren of rabbits under their hats to make sure you'll pay in the end. Too many holier than I know it all unhelpful people on here, shame it's a good source of info and help in a country far removed from western logic.

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, Pappap said:

if everything is in order, as required by law, they have a warren of rabbits under their hats to make sure you'll pay in the end.

What tosh. If you're legit and you have all your ducks in a row then you're a fool to pay anything. You have to remember that a lot of these IO's have been doing their jobs for years and just by looking at you walking through the door they can weigh you up as to you being an earner.

[scubascuba3]

7 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

What tosh. If you're legit and you have all your ducks in a row then you're a fool to pay anything. You have to remember that a lot of these IO's have been doing their jobs for years and just by looking at you walking through the door they can weigh you up as to you being an earner.

The thing is converting to a non Imm O in that immigration office is a grey area and the lady in charge is a Nazi and dresses like one, so she's always trying to screw money out of people

[IvorBiggun2]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

The thing is converting to a non Imm O in that immigration office is a grey area and the lady in charge is a Nazi and dresses like one, so she's always trying to screw money out of people

The more people that let her get away with it the greedier she gets. Nothing ventured nothing gained. It's those that pay that make it hard going for those that come after.

[scubascuba3]

11 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The more people that let her get away with it the greedier she gets. Nothing ventured nothing gained. It's those that pay that make it hard going for those that come after.

it depends what options you have, can't leave the country to get a non imm O, even if you could the cost would be greater. Usually though Immigration only cause a problem if you haven't followed the rules properly, it's possible the ops current visa can't be converted\transferred or something like that

[Pappap]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

it depends what options you have, can't leave the country to get a non imm O, even if you could the cost would be greater. Usually though Immigration only cause a problem if you haven't followed the rules properly, it's possible the ops current visa can't be converted\transferred or something like that

Nope it's as you previously stated, person in charge making the rules....

[Neeranam]

On 7/23/2021 at 6:05 PM, The Hammer2021 said:

The key to ease of loving in Asia  and the Middle East  is knowing good agents to assist you with language, cultural  and beuractatic issues. 

"good agents" are hard to find. Most actually make a living by encouraging this extortion. 

[IvorBiggun2]

21 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

"good agents" are hard to find. Most actually make a living by encouraging this extortion. 

And that is why the 'Big Joke' was right in banning them from immigration offices.

[Neeranam]

41 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

And that is why the 'Big Joke' was right in banning them from immigration offices.

And that is why Big Joke was fired. 

[IvorBiggun2]

29 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

And that is why Big Joke was fired. 

Because he was right? There has never been a direct accusation that he was sidelined due to immigration policies. This is the most likely reason.

 

Quote

As of yet, no one can explain what the reason for the transfer of ‘Big Joke’ to an inactive post can be. It is a euphemism, of course, for suspension and there must be some reason and further revelations to come.

Quote

Big Joke’s aggressive pursuit of African and in particular, Nigerian online scammers at one point led to him being warned by a government agency that his tactics may be construed as an infringement of rights.

 

[IvorBiggun2]

17 hours ago, Pappap said:

Nope it's as you previously stated, person in charge making the rules....

No the rules are in a book sitting on the senior IO's desk. The rules can't be changed. If you're unsure as to an officer being right or wrong you ask to see the book. If not go home and phone the IO 'Hotline' and get their opinion. 

[Grin Grasser]

Too much idealism and speculation on this thread -- and many thaivisa (aseannow) threads.  Down with misinformation, opinions, BS.

 

I asked, what is the market price?

 

On Soi 13/2, a Thai office (Thai lawyer or agent?) in Pattaya about four years ago said, price was THB 65,000 to get a one-year visa.

 

In fall 2019, a friend said that the agents' going price for a one-year visa was THB 15,000.  Other friends said, it only cost THB 1,900 if I personally went to the immigration office and submit all the paperwork.

 

Last March 2020, a friend said, an agent in Pattaya would charge about THB 24,000.  This was just prior to the pandemic shutdown.

 

Another friend said that the immigration officer in Udon Thani said, THB 20,000 to change from O-A visa to an O visa and he first had to leave Thailand.  When he returned to Thailand, he went to Pattaya where he owns a condo unit and an agent charged THB 25,000 to get the non-O visa in 30 days and THB 30,000 to get it in 2 weeks.

 

An office representative working out of the photocopier office next to the immigration office in Jomtien said that the price depended on the length of the visa.  That is, THB 15,000 for 30-day visa, THB 45,000 for a one-year visa if I had a bank account of THB 800,000 in it, and prices in between for 3-month, 6-month, etc visa.

 

Inside the Jomtien immigration office, two different officers quoted THB 23,000 and explained that the price was to get a 3-month visa, then a 12-month visa, and do all the associated paperwork and get a supervisor's approval.  They were very nice and professional.  (Friendlier than most of the bar girls and masseuses I have met over the years.  In fact, one asked me if I wanted a girl friend?). 

 

In August 2020, my passport was returned with two visas, one expired in October and the second visa expired a year later.  I had entered on a visa-exempt stamp which expired April 2020, and I paid THB 1,900 to extend 30 days (a week later, this fee was waived by Thai government for involuntary overstays, but no refund for me.).  I guess overstays through September were covered by subsequent Thai government extensions -- in spite of its threat to expel anyone not complying with an exception.

 

I know THB 23,000 is a lot more than THB 1,900.  But, it appears that I paid the market price.

 

I notice that previous threads on visa that I read on this forum, most posters neglect (deliberately?) to mention which immigration office they dealt with.  I guess that is part of misinformation.