Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[placnx]

20 hours ago, Scott said:

There has been a fair amount of either unsubstantiated or misleading information posted.  Leeway has been given because Covid is still relatively new and vaccines are certainly new, but a few points need to be clarified. 

 

First, vaccines do prevent infection from Covid.  Breakthrough cases are still the exception.  If you do get a breakthrough infection, you will almost always fare better than an unvaccinated person.  You will be infectious.  

 

Second, the mRNA vaccines are not experimental.  They are fully approved for certain groups.   mRNA technology has been around since the 90s and in the early 2000s it was used in human trials for a number of vaccines.  From those trials there is absolutely no reason to believe there is any long-term effect.   For those who are hesitant to take a new vaccine, there are traditional ones available.

At this juncture, the odds of defeating Covid look bleak, however, historically we have been fairly successful at eradicating or severely curtailing diseases as long as there isn't a vector species that is capable of harboring and reintroducing the virus.  Much of the attempt to find the origins of the disease is to answer this question.  The virus is 94 or 96 similar to what is known in bats, but is it the same?  Diseases like smallpox and polio exist only in people.  If Covid is the same then it is possible to eliminate it.  

Any group that isn't vaccinated or isolated from the general population is a risk for continuing the spread.  This includes children.

As to your thought about the possibility of eradicating Covid, the bat origin of this particular virus is no longer an issue if the claims in a letter to WSJ on 13 October entitled "Follow the Science: Lab Leak Is Most Likely" are reasonable. The author, a clinical prof at USC Keck Medical School, claims that SARS2 "has quite a low affinity for horseshoe bat cells". Similarity of 94-96% is actually not that close. Some earlier studies estimated that it could have taken 30 years to mutate to SARS2, but no such intermediary versions have been discovered, supposedly. So whether SARS2 is eliminated may depend more on whether lab safety protocols are upgraded in Wuhan! 

[2009]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

If you are talking about polio now, it has been eradicated almost everywhere, so the answer is Covid killing more children.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034a1.htm

How did you manage to take the premise, travel in time with it, then present it back looking like a katoey?

 

I don't even know how to address this with you. Wait til I finish my <deleted>

Edited October 15, 2021 by 2009

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, 2009 said:

<deleted>.

My point was that I am clueless about clinical protocols in Thailand.

[Scott]

56 minutes ago, placnx said:

As to your thought about the possibility of eradicating Covid, the bat origin of this particular virus is no longer an issue if the claims in a letter to WSJ on 13 October entitled "Follow the Science: Lab Leak Is Most Likely" are reasonable. The author, a clinical prof at USC Keck Medical School, claims that SARS2 "has quite a low affinity for horseshoe bat cells". Similarity of 94-96% is actually not that close. Some earlier studies estimated that it could have taken 30 years to mutate to SARS2, but no such intermediary versions have been discovered, supposedly. So whether SARS2 is eliminated may depend more on whether lab safety protocols are upgraded in Wuhan! 

The lab leak theory is well beyond the scope of this thread and would quickly derail any discussion, so we will stay away from that, at this point.  It certainly has not been eliminated as a possibility.   An animal vector remains a possibility and I suspect a fair amount of study will be done to determine if one exists.   SARS1 does not appear to have a vector species and it was controlled with public health mitigations efforts alone.  It was also much less transmissible, but more deadly.  Ebola has a vector species, but we have failed to find it.  

So, for this thread, we will keep to the issue of the virus and the vaccines. 

[CharlieH]

Reported troll comment removed.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, mavi said:

do you think that we still need to vaccinate now that covid cases are going down ?

The reasons to vaccinate have not changed.

 

COVID cases are still way higher than is necessary.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, mavi said:

do you think that we still need to vaccinate now that covid cases are going down ?

They aren't going down very fast. Seem stuck at around 10k cases a day. That they know of. As they admit, cases are much higher than that.

 

When they are over 70% vaccinated, with quality vaccines, it might be time to discuss this. But not now.

 

In the end, we'll be getting jabs for this virus for many years to come.

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

They aren't going down very fast. Seem stuck at around 10k cases a day. That they know of. As they admit, cases are much higher than that.

 

When they are over 70% vaccinated, with quality vaccines, it might be time to discuss this. But not now.

 

In the end, we'll be getting jabs for this virus for many years to come.

 

I bet you would be quite quite disappointed if the news said next week...

 

Covids over no more jabs or masks, or lockdowns needed. just forget the whole thing...

Edited October 16, 2021 by redwood1

[Jeffr2]

10 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

I bet you would be quite quite disappointed if the news said next week...

 

Covids over no more jabs or masks, or lockdowns needed. just forget the whole thing...

For sure. If that happened, cases would start rising again. Early curfews would be back. And pubs would stay closed.

 

And for sure, covid would not be over. Stunning you don't understand this.

[Scott]

5 hours ago, mavi said:

do you think that we still need to vaccinate now that covid cases are going down ?

It's in everyone's interest to try and get as many people vaccinated as possible and that includes children.  In a country like Thailand, with relatively porous borders and with a possible influx of tourists, the virus will likely be lurking somewhere and once it pops up, it's hard to contain.   This is particularly true with the highly contagious Delta virus.  

There will always be some people who won't or can't get vaccinated, but the number has to be small to protect the population at large and keep the economy going.  

 

Because Delta is more contagious, the estimate is between 80 and 90% need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity.

 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

They aren't going down very fast. Seem stuck at around 10k cases a day. That they know of. As they admit, cases are much higher than that.

 

When they are over 70% vaccinated, with quality vaccines, it might be time to discuss this. But not now.

 

In the end, we'll be getting jabs for this virus for many years to come.

Given the experience of other countries that were sluggish to vaccinate and then opened when the cases were still low, if Thailand follows suit, those cases and death will shoot back up again.

[placnx]

14 hours ago, Scott said:

The lab leak theory is well beyond the scope of this thread and would quickly derail any discussion, so we will stay away from that, at this point.  It certainly has not been eliminated as a possibility.   An animal vector remains a possibility and I suspect a fair amount of study will be done to determine if one exists.   SARS1 does not appear to have a vector species and it was controlled with public health mitigations efforts alone.  It was also much less transmissible, but more deadly.  Ebola has a vector species, but we have failed to find it.  

So, for this thread, we will keep to the issue of the virus and the vaccines. 

Civets were found to be the intermediate species between bats and humans in the case of SARS-CoV-1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome#Origin_and_animal_vectors

 

Ebola is believed to have come from bats. A friend of mine developed the first Ebola vaccine which was licensed by Merck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola#Reservoir

 

There have been studies to discover what animals can contract SARS-CoV-2. While many species can be infected, none seem likely as vectors. Mink were found to harbor numerous mutations, none of which were considered more dangerous to humans than circulating variants. Nonetheless, as a precaution 17 million minks were put down. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03218-z

It was concluded that the minks were infected from humans.

 

This is from May 2020, but it is a good explanation of the approches to searching for an intermediate vector species:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01449-8

This research is also useful to discover which species could become a reservoir of SARS2, even if their infection came through humans.

[Tony125]

34 minutes ago, mavi said:

 

I just don't care other people reasons, I care my reason. Why should I vaccinate when covid is getting lower and lower ?

I didn't get it after almost 2 years, so why should I get it later ?

Anybody who is not a provax conspiracy theorist can reply please ?

serious question !

thanks

 

So in the 2 years  that you have not gotten Covid have you taken precautions? Wearing masks, social distancing, not eating in restaurants, not going to large gatherings, ordering  food from grab? Non vaccinated will need to continue to do this otherwise sooner or later you will come down with Covid. You may be lucky and have mild case or unluky and die.

 

 

90,000 deaths since June were preventable with vaccination; US to reopen land borders to vaccinated tourists: COVID-19 updates

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/90000-deaths-since-june-were-preventable-with-vaccination-us-to-reopen-land-borders-to-vaccinated-tourists-covid-19-updates/ar-AAPs0Ff?li=BBnb7Kz

 

 

 

Do coronavirus vaccines prevent transmission of the virus?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/do-coronavirus-vaccines-prevent-transmission-of-the-virus/ar-AAPsEfu?li=BBnb7Kz

 

The findings showed that both vaccines reduced transmission, but that the Pfizer vaccine was the most effective in doing so.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Tony125
correction

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post leading to bickering has been removed also replies

[Tony125]

On 10/15/2021 at 1:56 PM, redwood1 said:

Hesitant is a stupid wishy-washy word....Some people just don't want the vax at all...They are not hesitant....They just don't bloody want it...

They did a poll among unvaxed and was reported that many might take the vaccine but were "hesitant"   because they were pregnant and did't know what harm the vaccine might cause their unborn child, they were "hesitant"  because they didn't know  enough about the new Mrna  tech,  they were "hesitant" because they had heard on internet  bla bla bla.  , were scared of long term effects, ect.

[DavisH]

42 minutes ago, mavi said:

 

I just don't care other people reasons, I care my reason. Why should I vaccinate when covid is getting lower and lower ?

I didn't get it after almost 2 years, so why should I get it later ?

Anybody who is not a provax conspiracy theorist can reply please ?

serious question !

thanks

 

Because eventually get a covid infection. Most health experts now agree on this. The point of vaccination is to keep you out of hospital or dying. 

[Jeffr2]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/15/health/cdc-covid-risk-higher-unvaccinated/index.html

 

 

New CDC data shows the risk of dying from Covid-19 is 11 times higher for unvaccinated adults than for fully vaccinated adults

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, mavi said:

 

I just don't care other people reasons, I care my reason. Why should I vaccinate when covid is getting lower and lower ?

I didn't get it after almost 2 years, so why should I get it later ?

Anybody who is not a provax conspiracy theorist can reply please ?

serious question !

thanks

 

If you don’t care about the opinions of others why did you post here asking for the opinions of others? 

 

Doh!

 

[Jeffr2]

38 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If you don’t care about the opinions of others why did you post here asking for the opinions of others? 

 

Doh!

 

A true troll.

[Danderman123]

7 hours ago, mavi said:

Stunning that you do not understand that people get bored with your propaganda ! And anyway at the end you lose, because economy and people daily life and work are more important than your theory. Countries will reopen as they should have never close, and yes some people will get covid and die, just as millions people who die yearly of any other cause, STUNNING THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS !!!!

 

 

Covid deaths are preventable. You don’t seem to understand that.

[Scott]

It will be interesting to see how many people who will remain in Thailand if they mandate vaccines for foreign residents.  I suspect most will get vaccinated.   The US experience, so far, with mandates may shed some light on how foreigners here will react:

The Unvaccinated May Not Be Who You Think

https://www.yahoo.com/news/unvaccinated-may-not-think-120724338.html

[cdemundo]

 

11 hours ago, mavi said:

 

I just don't care other people reasons, I care my reason. Why should I vaccinate when covid is getting lower and lower ?

I didn't get it after almost 2 years, so why should I get it later ?

Anybody who is not a provax conspiracy theorist can reply please ?

serious question !

thanks

 

"Why should I vaccinate when covid is getting lower and lower ?

... serious question !"

 

You are right that it does seem COVID is waning.

I have heard two different "experts" on the TV news say that the latest "wave" may be the last.

I have also heard "experts" say that everyone will be exposed to COVID eventually.

 

There are a few scenarios you might consider.

You never get exposed and COVID goes away. Great right?

You get exposed and have an asymptomatic or mild case. Pretty good, probably no big deal.

You get exposed and have a serious case. Very effed up. Suffering and possible death.

 

A lot of people talk about the main stream media exaggerating COVID dangers.

The one place where they, MSM, have absolutely ignored COVID dangers (IMHO) is in the treatments necessary to treat serious cases. I don't know if this is from patient privacy concerns or what.

 

Patients have excruciating difficulty trying to breathe, some are given paralytic drugs and put in medically induced comas to stop them from writhing and struggling and interfering with the life-saving equipment they are on. Intubation, respirators, dialysis, and ECMO (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) machines are used. Patients are unable to eat or speak for days. Patients suffer multi-organ failure: brain, heart, lungs (of course), kidneys, liver are affected.

 

Some recover.

 

The only place I have seen a hint of the reality of COVID hospitalization is on the Herman Cain Awards Reddit where the posts of patients and their families have been reposted. The reddit is what you might call a "provax conspiracy theorist" effort, but the posts are from the patients and their families and give an idea of what a bad case of COVID is like.

They also dispel the often repeated "They died of something else" theory, the course of COVID is like nothing else. The people who had other medical conditions were not going through this before they caught COVID.

 

Up to you of course.

You can see with your own eyes the results of COVID illness.

I have my doubts that it was really a serious question, usually people just post to start a new argument.

But there is information out there that is not widely seen and anyone who is trying to evaluate the risks of COVID illness should see it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by cdemundo

[cdemundo]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:46 AM, placnx said:

As to your thought about the possibility of eradicating Covid, the bat origin of this particular virus is no longer an issue if the claims in a letter to WSJ on 13 October entitled "Follow the Science: Lab Leak Is Most Likely" are reasonable. The author, a clinical prof at USC Keck Medical School, claims that SARS2 "has quite a low affinity for horseshoe bat cells". Similarity of 94-96% is actually not that close. Some earlier studies estimated that it could have taken 30 years to mutate to SARS2, but no such intermediary versions have been discovered, supposedly. So whether SARS2 is eliminated may depend more on whether lab safety protocols are upgraded in Wuhan! 

 

 

With all due respect to Dr. Stanley J Alexander,

Some facts about him:

https://www.healthcare4ppl.com/physician/california/arcadia/stanley-j-alexander-1497814685.html

• He graduated with honors from University Of Southern California Keck School Of Medicine in 1959.
• Dr. Stanley J Alexander has primarily specialised in Rheumatology for over 62 years.

https://keck.usc.edu/faculty-search/

His name is not found in the Keck School of Medicine faculty directory.

 

Dr. Alexander is no doubt a fine physician and has had a long and successful career in rheumatology.

His opinion is no doubt worth considering, even though he is not an expert in viruses or infectious diseases.

The opinion of one MD with a specialty in rheumatology upon the original of the COVID virus is certainly not sufficient to say that "the bat origin of this particular virus is no longer an issue".

[cdemundo]

4 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Patients have excruciating difficulty trying to breathe, some are given paralytic drugs and put in medically induced comas to stop them from writhing and struggling and interfering with the life-saving equipment they are on. Intubation, respirators, dialysis, and ECMO (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) machines are used. Patients are unable to eat or speak for days. Patients suffer multi-organ failure: brain, heart, lungs (of course), kidneys, liver are affected.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/q8xytf/previous_nominee_gains_award_after_hoping_wed_all/

 

So here is one example of a COVID patient :

dialysis, paralytic drug, full time vent, transfusion; 

not the same as the flu.

 

I consider not off topic since a poster has asked "why should I get the vaccine."

What patients go through is not widely known.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, Scott said:

It will be interesting to see how many people who will remain in Thailand if they mandate vaccines for foreign residents.  I suspect most will get vaccinated.   The US experience, so far, with mandates may shed some light on how foreigners here will react:

The Unvaccinated May Not Be Who You Think

https://www.yahoo.com/news/unvaccinated-may-not-think-120724338.html

An excellent article, thanks for posting.

[Jeffr2]

11 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Covid deaths are preventable. You don’t seem to understand that.

True! Sad some don't understand this, or don't care about it.

 

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/preventable-costs-of-unvaccinated-covid-19-patients-rise-sharply-in-august-as-hospitalizations-surge/

 

A surge in COVID-19 hospitalizations among people who have not been vaccinated in August is adding billions of dollars in preventable costs to the nation’s health-care system, an updated KFF analysis finds.

 

In August, the new analysis estimates that the preventable costs of treating unvaccinated patients in  hospitals total $3.7 billion, almost twice the estimates for June and July combined. The total preventable costs for those three months now stand at an estimated $5.7 billion.

[Jeffr2]

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/90000-us-covid-19-deaths-since-june-were-preventable-kaiser-family-foundation-says

 

As the nation braces for yet another potential surge in COVID-19 infections and cold weather approaches, new data suggests an estimated 90,000 COVID-19 deaths in the United States could have been prevented since June 2021. 

 

The analysis, conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation, estimated how many COVID-19 deaths were among unvaccinated adults and could have been prevented since June 2021 "when safe and effective COVID-19 vaccines became widely available to all adults in the U.S." 

[redwood1]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

True! Sad some don't understand this, or don't care about it.

 

Hey..... You finally got something right here....lol......We don't care......

 

I think I lost interest  in your crusade about 40 pages ago..

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by redwood1

[xylophone]

22 hours ago, placnx said:

Civets were found to be the intermediate species between bats and humans in the case of SARS-CoV-1:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome#Origin_and_animal_vectors

 

Ebola is believed to have come from bats. A friend of mine developed the first Ebola vaccine which was licensed by Merck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola#Reservoir

 

There have been studies to discover what animals can contract SARS-CoV-2. While many species can be infected, none seem likely as vectors. Mink were found to harbor numerous mutations, none of which were considered more dangerous to humans than circulating variants. Nonetheless, as a precaution 17 million minks were put down. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03218-z

It was concluded that the minks were infected from humans.

 

This is from May 2020, but it is a good explanation of the approches to searching for an intermediate vector species:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01449-8

This research is also useful to discover which species could become a reservoir of SARS2, even if their infection came through humans.

This is an interesting article and worth a read........

 

Newly discovered bat viruses give hints to Covid's origins

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/newly-discovered-bat-viruses-give-hints-to-covids-origins/RWMHCNUDK4ICTASILSEKGJX344/

[Rimmer]

A baiting post has been removed