Messed up My Non-O Retirement Yet Again

[Nickelbeer]

9 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That's not "obviously" what I want to do.    You claimed that "Thailand wants expats to leave the country".  That is false, it's a s simple as that and I disputed what you posted.   

 

If you could not comply with IB's requirements that everyone else has to comply with that is your individual problem, it is not "Thailand telling expats to leave".

It was not a problem once my agent got involved.  What changed?????    LOL

[Nickelbeer]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That's not "obviously" what I want to do.    You claimed that "Thailand wants expats to leave the country".  That is false, it's a s simple as that and I disputed what you posted.   

 

If you could not comply with IB's requirements that everyone else has to comply with that is your individual problem, it is not "Thailand telling expats to leave".

Your inability to see the obvious scenario for what it is, does not obligate me to agree with your conclusion. Any expat who has been here for a while knows what drives and motivates Immigration and it is NOT assisting expats in living here. Immigration has a large stable of xenophobes on staff who have been legendary in making life difficult for those attempting to live here long term. WIth the exception of Vietnam, other southeast Asian countries have been making it easier and streamlining the process. Actions tell the story, not rhetoric. IO has been very creative in manufacturing problems where none exist.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That's not "obviously" what I want to do.    You claimed that "Thailand wants expats to leave the country".  That is false, it's a s simple as that and I disputed what you posted.   

 

If you could not comply with IB's requirements that everyone else has to comply with that is your individual problem, it is not "Thailand telling expats to leave".

It was not a problem once my agent got involved.  What changed?????    LOL

No idea, I've no interest in the forensics of your visa application.   All I'm interested in is your false claim that "Thailand wants expats to leave the country" and that the IO in your case told you that.  He did not say that "Thailand wants expats to leave".   

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

Any expat who has been here for a while knows what drives and motivates Immigration and it is NOT assisting expats in living here. Immigration has a large stable of xenophobes on staff who have been legendary in making life difficult for those attempting to live here long term.

More garbage.   IO's jobs are not "to assist expats in living here"!  They're RTP officers, not social or community workers and I doubt that "any expat knows what motivates IOs".

 

"Immigration has a large stable of xenophobes on staff..."

There's something else that you have no evidence of, it may be your opinion but it's not factual.  

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

More garbage.   IO's jobs are not "to assist expats in living here"!  They're RTP officers, not social or community workers and I doubt that "any expat knows what motivates IOs".

 

"Immigration has a large stable of xenophobes on staff..."

There's something else that you have no evidence of, it may be your opinion but it's not factual.  

Absolutely agree... 

 

I have a handful of close friends in Thai immigration...  I would argue they are as equally indifferent to any foreigners they do not know as they are Thai’s they do not know. 

 

There is an additional facet of their work which is not often discussed here - they have to put up with argumentative ‘foreigners’ who get upset when they have failed to meet a requirement. That is not the fault of the officer and those on the front lines put up with a lot of ‘ayholes’ and a lot of idiots. 

 

The requirements are sometimes a little ‘inconsistent’ and that catches people out. I think in general the officers are sympathetic to those who are caught out by changing rules, if that person manages to keep their cool and remains calm and polite. 

 

There are of course ‘bad apples’ but I would argue there are more ‘impolite foreigners’ so it doesn’t really surprise me if an immigration officer treats me with a level of disregard one usually keeps for complete strangers !, I don’t expect them [Immigration officers] to be gushing with manners. 

 

That said: Immigration policy itself is outdated, draconian and outright inconvenient - that is not the fault of the officer handling your passport, but these issues are in the hands of those in decision making power and there may be an element of xenophobia there. Immigration policy could be a lot more ‘user friendly’.... just ridding the 90 day reporting would make a huge difference, as would an online ‘extension system’.

 

 

The fact remains that foreigners have ‘played the system’ for decades and that its getting harder people are getting upset and crying racism, xenophobia. 

 

 

In over 20 years here, I’ve not once had an immigration hassle that couldn’t be resolved very easily on the spot (one junior officer made a mistake, a senior officer to resolved the situation quickly). 

 

[Nickelbeer]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

More garbage.   IO's jobs are not "to assist expats in living here"!  They're RTP officers, not social or community workers and I doubt that "any expat knows what motivates IOs".

 

"Immigration has a large stable of xenophobes on staff..."

There's something else that you have no evidence of, it may be your opinion but it's not factual.  

All you have done is illustrate your stunning lack of knowledge about Thai Immigration in the face of massive evidence straight from their own public releases. Deputy Prime Minister Anutin is STILL maintaining that "filthy farangs" who don't take enough showers, are responsible for spreading the Covid virus. I certainly wish it were possible to SMELL it. ????. You dig yourself into a deeper hole with everything you post. The latest Visa plan is to attract millionaires who will invest half a million dollars in the economy of this developing country with virtually no guarantee of return on investment. Do these people understand how basic economics WORKS????  ???? 

[EricTh]

On 8/7/2021 at 8:22 AM, ubonjoe said:

It is not a problem with the 800k being in the bank for 2 months.

He used an agent and has no proof the 800k baht was kept in the bank for 3 months after the application was done and then 400k baht until he topped it up to 800k baht. That is a catch 22 when using an agent that provides the financial proof.

 

Well, if he used his Covid extension now, he doesn't need to exit Thailand but wait for the 2 months to be seasoned. So why does he need an agent now?

 

 

 

[fangless]

14 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

You obviously want to stir up trouble. Immigration told me that if I could not comply with their rules, then I should go back to my home country. They had no problem waiving the rules with the help of my agent who has an "arrangement" with IO.

 

13 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

It was not a problem once my agent got involved.  What changed?????    LOL

So you are admitting that you are staying in the country even though you do not meet the legal requirements to do so and then have the gall to complain about Thai Immigration!

[fangless]

On 8/8/2021 at 8:17 PM, Nickelbeer said:

I value her opinion and apparently, the IO values it too, judging by the welcome she gets when she drives me to the Immigration office.

No wonder the IO values your agent's opinion,(at your expense) as of course do you since you have admitted above that she is helping you break the law.

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, EricTh said:

Well, if he used his Covid extension now, he doesn't need to exit Thailand but wait for the 2 months to be seasoned. So why does he need an agent now?

As I wrote in my post the 2 months before his application is not the problem.

He failed to meet the money in the bank requirements after he applied for his last extension. That is why they will not do another extension for him.

These is are the financial requirement as per the amendment to the immigration order that went into effect on March 1st of 2019.

 

 

[Nickelbeer]

2 hours ago, fangless said:

No wonder the IO values your agent's opinion,(at your expense) as of course do you since you have admitted above that she is helping you break the law.

You could not be more clueless. No laws are being broken. Visa extensions are at the discretion of Immigration.

[Liverpool Lou]

12 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

All you have done is illustrate your stunning lack of knowledge about Thai Immigration in the face of massive evidence straight from their own public releases. Deputy Prime Minister Anutin is STILL maintaining that "filthy farangs" who don't take enough showers, are responsible for spreading the Covid virus. I certainly wish it were possible to SMELL it. ????. You dig yourself into a deeper hole with everything you post. The latest Visa plan is to attract millionaires who will invest half a million dollars in the economy of this developing country with virtually no guarantee of return on investment. Do these people understand how basic economics WORKS????  ???? 

All you are doing is trying to distract from the fact that you stated, falsely, that "Thailand wants expats to leave" and you still cannot back it up.   Thailand does not want expats to leave and you have no empirical evidence that anyone has ever said what you claim.

 

"The latest Visa plan is to attract millionaires"

That sort of flies in the face of your bizarre, unfounded claim that "Thailand wants expats to leave the country"!   How deep are you going to go with that hole of yours?

Edited August 10, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[fangless]

4 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

You could not be more clueless. No laws are being broken. Visa extensions are at the discretion of Immigration.

They are subject to law.

The IO tells you you cannot do something but you get an agent to circumvent the IO's decission.  

That is breaking the law.

Edited August 10, 2021 by fangless

[Nickelbeer]

10 minutes ago, fangless said:

They are subject to law.

The IO tells you you cannot do something but you get an agent to circumvent the IO's decission.  

That is breaking the law.

You can't reason any better than you can spell. If they voluntarily WAIVE the rules they make, then THEY are breaking the law, not me. I benefit from their willingness to accept the "brown envelope".

[atpeace]

29 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

You can't reason any better than you can spell. If they voluntarily WAIVE the rules they make, then THEY are breaking the law, not me. I benefit from their willingness to accept the "brown envelope".

Both are breaking the law?

[Nickelbeer]

8 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Both are breaking the law?

There have been no expats arrested for using agents, hence no lawbreaking. They may deny your ability to use an agent, but that would destroy a huge part of their income. NONE of these "laws" were ever passed by the legislature, they are RULES, subject to change arbitrarily. The original terms under which I received my "O" visa, did not stipulate that I needed to keep my money in a Thai bank. In the past, expats have been "grandfathered in" on the rules under which they were admitted. That is why a friend of mine, who lives in the same condo complex, is able to live here with an income of only 1500 dollars a month. At some point, they decided that they would stop the "grandfathering" and require adherence to newer rules. Agents are the accepted way around this. They have never stopped allowing this because they need MONEY!!!!!!!  The Thai Culture of Impunity, makes rules a very fluid thing, indeed.
 

[fangless]

3 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

There have been no expats arrested for using agents, hence no lawbreaking.

What a stupid sentence.  Of course using an agent is not necessarily an offence.  But It is an offence if the agent breaks the law, eg; bribes an official to circumvent the rules.

[gk10012001]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:25 AM, jesimps said:

Probably for the same reason that if I was flush with cash, there is no way I'd waste even one second of my precious life visiting the immigration office. It would be a big stretch of the imagination to call it a pleasant experience. I suppose there are one or two on here who actually look forward to it judging by some of the posts.

One does not have to be flush with cash.   Do 90 day reports online (sometimes) or by mail.  Extensions once a year.  That is not an onerous  amount of time.  I understand the desire to avoid lines and bureaucracy.   But using agent for just routine processing and not fronting the 800k baht does not cost too much.  I have used an agent once for an extension just so I could avoid going down to Jomtien from Pattaya, and the cost was nominal. four 90 day reports, one yearly extension are pretty routine and an agent can help with any nuances the local office or officer may have and sort things out on the sport,  I went to Key Visa, filled our or helped them fill out a few forms, gave them my passport, and I got everything back the next day all stamped and good to go.

[MrJ2U]

Contact Paul at Thai Visa Express.

Always fast and professional service.

I'm in Issan and hes made my life easier.  

Located in Pattaya.  Nice excuse for a visit.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by MrJ2U

[Nickelbeer]

1 hour ago, gk10012001 said:

One does not have to be flush with cash.   Do 90 day reports online (sometimes) or by mail.  Extensions once a year.  That is not an onerous  amount of time.  I understand the desire to avoid lines and bureaucracy.   But using agent for just routine processing and not fronting the 800k baht does not cost too much.  I have used an agent once for an extension just so I could avoid going down to Jomtien from Pattaya, and the cost was nominal. four 90 day reports, one yearly extension are pretty routine and an agent can help with any nuances the local office or officer may have and sort things out on the sport,  I went to Key Visa, filled our or helped them fill out a few forms, gave them my passport, and I got everything back the next day all stamped and good to go.

The online 90 day reports have never worked for me. They work fine for my agent. As far as being "flush with cash", that is something I have NEVER been and never SHALL be. I have a monthly income of about 85 thousand baht a month. When I first came here, an Immigration officer told me they didn't care WHERE my money was, just so I had at least 65 thousand baht a month. It didn't take them long to destroy a nice smooth system and demand 800 thousand baht in the bank to remain untouched. Can't do it and WON'T do it. The only thing keeping me here is COVID restrictions and I am still waiting to receive word about when I can be vaccinated. Once the Philippines opens back up, I am GONE.  I am not going to subject myself to the monthly whims of Immigration. They want low-income expats like me GONE, so they can ostensibly replace us with millionaires. Good luck on that. A millionaire can live in France or other first world countries, they don't need to slum it in developing nations.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Nickelbeer

[gk10012001]

1 minute ago, Nickelbeer said:

The online 90 day reports have never worked for me. They work fine for my agent. As far as being "flush with cash", that is something I have NEVER been and never SHALL be. I have a monthly income of about 85 thousand baht a month. When I first came here, an Immigration officer told me they didn't care WHERE my money was, just so I had at least 65 thousand baht a month. It didn't take them long to destroy a nice smooth system and demand 800 thousand baht in the bank to remain untouched. Can't do it and WON'T do it. The only thing keeping me here is COVID restrictions and I am still waiting to receive word about when I can be vaccinated. Once the Philippines opens back up, I am GONE.  I am not going to subject myself to the monthly whims of Immigration.

You do not need to maintain 800k a month in the bank.  You seem to have enough for the 65K monthly income amount.  Depending on which country you are from, you can use the embassy letter, but I assume you are either UK or USA citizen so you have to do the monthly transfer <deleted>.

 

  And yes, my plan was always to use the income method and get the simple USA embassy letter.  For the last 15 years I invested primarily for income, divvies and interest and did not care too much for growth and did not try to pick lows, time the markets etc.  Now I can do either income or amount method. I prefer the income transfer since I prefer to keep my monies invested back in the USA.  But there is a chance for simplicity and for the year or two when I really see if I can stand retiring in Thailand, I will do the 800k baht.  I will not lose much income parking that in Thailand.  One would have to do the foreign account form for the IRS every year, but that is trivial. 

[Mike Teavee]

24 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

Once the Philippines opens back up, I am GONE.  I am not going to subject myself to the monthly whims of Immigration

Philippines was talking about tightening up on the perpetual (3 years, then leave country & restart the clock) use of Visa Exempt entries so unless you're going for the SRRV ($10,000 USD in a government approved bank account) or plan on marrying a Filipina always have a Plan B. 

 

As an aside I love the Philippines (Vissayas, Davao/Cebu/Bohol being my favourite places) but when it came to deciding on a place to retire to, I had no hesitation in choosing Thailand despite having a Filipina GF of 8 years & having gone 1/2s on a house build in Davao a few years prior). 

 

Philippines remains a Plan B/C but for now I'm happy to stay in Thailand as long as they'll have me. 

 

 

[TaoNow]

It all comes down to how much you value the everyday lifestyle in Thailand, compared to other countries in Asia, or anywhere else.

 

If the infrequent (legal) dealings with Immo are too much for you to bear, then you were never in Thailand for the right reasons anyway.

 

[gk10012001]

44 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Philippines was talking about tightening up on the perpetual (3 years, then leave country & restart the clock) use of Visa Exempt entries so unless you're going for the SRRV ($10,000 USD in a government approved bank account) or plan on marrying a Filipina always have a Plan B. 

 

As an aside I love the Philippines (Vissayas, Davao/Cebu/Bohol being my favourite places) but when it came to deciding on a place to retire to, I had no hesitation in choosing Thailand despite having a Filipina GF of 8 years & having gone 1/2s on a house build in Davao a few years prior). 

 

Philippines remains a Plan B/C but for now I'm happy to stay in Thailand as long as they'll have me. 

 

 

yes. The PI visa game may not be as steady as people may think.  My buddy married a filipina on his second trip over there, and this was after 10 Thailand trips!  time will tell.  If many many more people decide to start heading to the PI, well, more changes and fees may crop up.  Many countries are going to want to get money coming in when this COVID blows over.  Some may do it by being attractive, some may have a Thai mentality and if business is slow, charge more to make up for it!

[zzzzz]

just use Grace; have ur extension issued and she will move your address for ya

14,000 all in

 

no big deal

 

If all ur after is an easy country for immigration, Cambodia cant be beat over 55, $300 /year includes multiple re entry ( IF we ever can once again use them) 
not 90 day reports

no tm 30, 

only the $300

Edited August 10, 2021 by zzzzz

[atpeace]

29 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

just use Grace; have ur extension issued and she will move your address for ya

14,000 all in

 

no big deal

 

If all ur after is an easy country for immigration, Cambodia cant be beat over 55, $300 /year includes multiple re entry ( IF we ever can once again use them) 
not 90 day reports

no tm 30, 

only the $300

Cambodia is interesting but could never imagine living there.  No escape from the heat.  The locals have to lock anything of value inside locked gates at night in any city of decent size.  My motorbike was stolen while locked in a secure parking lot with many guards.  Locals can't leave motorbikes on the streets unattended because they will be stolen. Not if but when! 

 

This was 6 years ago - maybe things have changed.  It is also very dangerous if you are the adventurous type.  Narrowly escaped 2 scary encounters with groups of men while exploring the city alone during the day.

 

It is fun and has a wild west feel to it.   

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, atpeace said:

It is fun and has a wild west feel to it.   

My first visit to Cambodia was in 1986. At that time, ignoring the warnings of locals would have been folly. As for owning a motorcycle at that time, a policeman would have been liable to steal it from you at gunpoint in broad daylight. Wild West to put it mildly!

[atpeace]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

My first visit to Cambodia was in 1986. At that time, ignoring the warnings of locals would have been folly. As for owning a motorcycle at that time, a policeman would have been liable to steal it from you at gunpoint in broad daylight. Wild West to put it mildly!

I can be naive at times which has its benefits. Experienced things that would have never been if I put more thought into the possible bad outcomes.   Many here in Thailand, you included, throw caution to the wind.  We are still here typing away and those heart thumping memories are also still with us.  At 54 yo I have finally become reasonably wise after a terrible accident.  In 6 years now I have been reasonably safe and have not put myself in a dangerous situation. Hasn't been all that bad.

 

 

[zzzzz]

14 hours ago, atpeace said:

Cambodia is interesting but could never imagine living there.  No escape from the heat.  The locals have to lock anything of value inside locked gates at night in any city of decent size.  My motorbike was stolen while locked in a secure parking lot with many guards.  Locals can't leave motorbikes on the streets unattended because they will be stolen. Not if but when! 

 

This was 6 years ago - maybe things have changed.  It is also very dangerous if you are the adventurous type.  Narrowly escaped 2 scary encounters with groups of men while exploring the city alone during the day.

It is fun and has a wild west feel to it.   

used to enter Cambodia every few weeks overland in 87/88 to mine stones
lived in PP in 2008/09.

made the move this year and am building in Kep, (not nearly as hot as Phuket)  its got a nice feel to it but it is a 2nd, 3rd rate country compared to Thailand<  if it were not for my gf being khmer, i'd not be here  LOL

 

ONLY thing dangerous nowadays is travelling by motorcycle on the roads but yep, got to lock everything up at night

[atpeace]

1 hour ago, zzzzz said:

used to enter Cambodia every few weeks overland in 87/88 to mine stones
lived in PP in 2008/09.

made the move this year and am building in Kep, (not nearly as hot as Phuket)  its got a nice feel to it but it is a 2nd, 3rd rate country compared to Thailand<  if it were not for my gf being khmer, i'd not be here  LOL

 

ONLY thing dangerous nowadays is travelling by motorcycle on the roads but yep, got to lock everything up at night

Interesting life you have had! I'll checkout Kep.  Plan on traveling quite a bit next year and always wanted to find a place that wasn't so hot in Cambodia.