Can a school force a minor to get vaccinate or threaten with expulsion?

[ClaySmc]

26 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

In UK there have been more deaths of double vaccinated than those of non-vaccinated in this year.

This is from July, though there may be more recent UK studies:

 

COVID: the reason cases are rising among the double vaccinated – it's not because vaccines aren't working (theconversation.com)

 

The latest data from Public Health England suggests that against the delta variant, which is now dominant in UK, two doses of any of the vaccines available in Britain are estimated to offer 79% protection against symptomatic COVID and 96% protection against hospitalization.

 

Without the vaccine, what protection is there?

 

This is a more recent article on why:

 

Why are Covid cases so high when millions are fully vaccinated? Blame the delta variant, experts say (msn.com)

 

 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

28 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

In UK there have been more deaths of double vaccinated than those of non-vaccinated in this year.

And if everyone is double-vaccinated, then the only Covid deaths will be the double-vaccinated. As the vaccination level increases and the number of unvaccinated dwindles, the proportion of deaths of the vaccinated will at some point exceed that of the unvaccinated. This does not imply that vaccines do not reduce serious illness or death.

[Rimmer]

A troll also misinformation post have been removed

[ClaySmc]

58 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

And if everyone is double-vaccinated, then the only Covid deaths will be the double-vaccinated. As the vaccination level increases and the number of unvaccinated dwindles, the proportion of deaths of the vaccinated will at some point exceed that of the unvaccinated. This does not imply that vaccines do not reduce serious illness or death.

You missed this part:

 

Andrew Freedman, a reader in infectious disease at Cardiff University School of Medicine, told CNBC Thursday.

"Those catching Covid now are a mixture of unvaccinated, partially vaccinated and double vaccinated people. A large proportion of new infection are in (unvaccinated) children and adolescents," he noted.

"We know that the vaccines are only partially effective at preventing people from catching the delta variant, but are much more effective at protecting against severe disease, hospitalisation and death.  Fully vaccinated individuals are mostly getting only mild symptoms if they do catch it, although a small minority, especially older and more frail people, are still getting more severe illness."

 

Back to the issue of school children having to be vaccinated; if I was a teacher having to face groups students every day, and then go back home to my children, spouse, and extended family; I would not want your child in my class if he was not vaccinated and wearing a mask. Why put my family at risk so you can get a free ride???  Why should doctors and nurses treat you if you did not get vaccinated--they are at risk every day in their hospitals--you're just adding more risk to the equation. Sometimes society makes decisions based on the whole community. If you don't what to be part of that community you are free to leave and find a place of like-minded citizens.

 

 

[cclub75]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

 

Time to address this vulnerable part of our population. Sad that you don't understand this.

 

Almost all of us were vaccinated as children. Why such a Fight now? Bizarre.

Sad you don't undertand this : the vaccines your talking about it... were tested for years... before given to children, on a large scale.

 

And those vaccines were "classic" (attenuated virus)... impossible to compare with the new ARN messenger products...

 

But I guess you do know this, don't you ?

[thcosh]

On 9/6/2021 at 9:58 AM, Justanotherone said:

I know most here have blind faith in this new religion of vaccines.

This is the problem of this $hit world of weak obedient and silly people !

 

On 9/6/2021 at 9:58 AM, Justanotherone said:

How did we all survive the last 18 months without ?

Ask the champions who support all this BS !

 

 

I would take my kids out from school if anybody would decide for me what they can do or not !

 

 

[richard_smith237]

On 9/6/2021 at 9:58 AM, Justanotherone said:

99,97 survival rate for a child

 

This is the problem with percentages... everyone simplifies the figure and overlooks real number. 

 

2000 children at my Sons school - is it ok if Covid sweeps the school and 5 of them die ?

 

Before admittance to the school children's vaccination records are checked. 

 

Of course, vaccinations such as the Influenza vaccine are not required, but the vaccines for other communicable diseases are. 

 

Given the serious nature of Covid-19 (even at 99.97 survival rate) 

 

The question may be more of a legal one and may vary through different school systems. 

I guess that if children are already accepted into a School they cannot be forced to take the Covid-19 vaccine, but the school also needs to know its vaccinated numbers so it can operated with a ‘herd immunity’ basis.

 

Thailand handles such issues with such a degree of clumsiness I imagine it would come down to the individual schools, many of which will not enforce vaccination unless government regulations state they have to. 

 

 

Its a tricky subject - but schools can be a ‘human petri dish’, kids can carry the virus home.

Thus, on the basis of community protection, children ought to be vaccinated. 

 

I’ve no issue with my son being vaccinated. 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, Justanotherone said:

Geert Vandenbossche, phd and expert that worked for gavi, warns that mass vaccination will push the virus to mutate.

The virus is going to mutate anyway, all viruses do. There have already been 10’s of thousands of variants of Covid-19, just a few of the classified as being of concern. 

 

Bossche’s idea is flawed and stems from the idea that vaccines are imperfect, they will allow the virus to keep being transmitted from person to person and thus mutate inside of us, until a dangerous new variant emerges.

 

This ‘could’ be the case in an immunised person with low levels of antibodies as viruses evolve, but the vaccines will keep up with antigenic drift, just as they do with influenza. 

 

 

Of course, non-vaccinated people do not have anti-bodies, there is greater possibility for the virus to ‘drift’ in their system, as they already have done. The existing ‘variants of concern’ already evolved before vaccines. 

 

 

Quote

 

People love to blame and insult others without propper knowledge

Agreed, read below... 

 

Quote

Look up Vaers

My mate suffered a heart attack a week after taking the vaccine - I reported it on VAERS. 

He was morbidly obese, had already had 2 heart attacks, but that doesn’t matter, I still reported it on VAERS, its important to contribute to knowledge !!!! 

 

Now do you see whats wrong the the VAERS reporting system ?

 

 

Quote

 

More incidents, injuries and deaths reported in 18 months than the last 20 years combined

 

 

Your sweet government paying families of covid injured or deaths, but strangly never the cause of the jab

Because it's not - VITT is incredible rare. 

 

Quote

 

Many people, old and sick reported to die from covid, but not their cancer , chronic diseases or old age

Old argument... boring, update the rhetoric - this is already debunked. 

 

 

Quote

Not one website can state a list with age of death patients only averages and mostly 65 and over

You didn’t look very hard. 

 

Quote

If vaxx protects you, why are you so afraid of me/us

Because you can spread the virus and the vaccine is imperfect.

Even the best vaccine has an efficacy of 95%, thus, if you are contagious and pass on the SARS-CoV-2 virus to 100 people, 5 will contract Covid-19. Real world efficiency of vaccines is less than the efficacy values. 

 

Quote

And how did u survive last 18 months?

For many, they do not know how effective social isolation measures and lock down has been. 

Those very same detractors may not be here if it weren’t for those measures.

 

 

Quote

Yes a have a child, yes we get a cold once and a while,  

Covid is not a ‘cold'. After the past 18 months, no one is this dumb...  (I think). 

 

 

Quote

No i am not afraid, as we eat healthy, exercise, are not overweight, don't take medication that affect our natural imminity and have a 99,98% survival rate

No need for anyone except those in high risk groups to be afraid, but there have also been lots of serious cases of perfectly healthy and young people who’ve become very ill.

 

You use the figure 99.98% survival rate... Take 1000 people will die... OR, vaccinate them and 1000 will survive. 

 

 

[ClaySmc]

13 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

This does not imply that vaccines do not reduce serious illness or death.

This just came out yesterday. It seems to address your issue:

 

New study finds unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die from Covid, CDC says (msn.com)

 

 

[Tony125]

On 9/10/2021 at 10:04 AM, MrJ2U said:

There isnt any vaccines for under 12.

There talking about Sinopharm and my Wife says no way.  Theres insufficient data for under 12.

 

I understand about the worries about vaccinating children but there worried about them spreading to other people inside the cramped Thai households.

 

Delta is affecting younger children.

 

Very controversial for sure.

 

"With the delta variant, we are seeing an increased number of cases amongst children."

 

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/how-covid-19-delta-variant-is-impacting-younger-people/

 

 

 

Pfizer to Apply For COVID-19 Vaccine Use in Children as Young as 5 Years Old in "Next Few Weeks"

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-to-apply-for-covid-19-vaccine-use-in-children-as-young-as-5-years-old-in-next-few-weeks/ar-BB1glSSR?li=BBnba9O

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bang saen guy]

22 hours ago, Justanotherone said:

Geert Vandenbossche, phd and expert that worked for gavi, warns that mass vaccination will push the virus to mutate

 

People love to blame and insult others without propper knowledge

 

 

Look up Vaers

 

More incidents, injuries and deaths reported in 18 months than the last 20 years combined

 

 

Your sweet government paying families of covid injured or deaths, but strangly never the cause of the jab

 

Many people, old and sick reported to die from covid, but not their cancer , chronic diseases or old age

 

Not one website can state a list with age of death patients only averages and mostly 65 and over

 

If vaxx protects you, why are you so afraid of me/us

 

And how did u survive last 18 months?

 

Yes a have a child, yes we get a cold once and a while,  

 

No i am not afraid, as we eat healthy, exercise, are not overweight, don't take medication that affect our natural imminity and have a 99,98% survival rate

 

 

 

 

You have never had a vaccination for any disease? Just curious

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

This ‘could’ be the case in an immunised person with low levels of antibodies as viruses evolve, but the vaccines will keep up with antigenic drift, just as they do with influenza.

but they don't, vaccinated people still die of new strains of influenza.

And more ‘unvaccinated’ people die than ‘vaccinated’ people of new strains of influenza...  Its the same with Covid-19, don’t you see that?..

 

They don’t ‘always' keep up with Antigenic drift - hence the severity of the variation of the H1N1 outbreak in 2009, virologists did not managed to track and predict that in time. 

 

But, for the most part the vaccines do track the drift successfully. The argument that ‘sometimes they may not’ does not imply vaccines are ineffective.

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, Tony125 said:

 

Pfizer to Apply For COVID-19 Vaccine Use in Children as Young as 5 Years Old in "Next Few Weeks"

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-to-apply-for-covid-19-vaccine-use-in-children-as-young-as-5-years-old-in-next-few-weeks/ar-BB1glSSR?li=BBnba9O

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess thats the next logical step.

 

Just like everyone I hope its safe.

 

I don't want mix and match Chinese swill for the children.

[Scott]

I strongly suggest you read the OP and stay on topic.  Not doing so will result in suspensions.  

 

[mtls2005]

On 9/6/2021 at 9:58 AM, Justanotherone said:

Expulsion or denial the further education of your child ?

 

You're asking about Thailand specifically?

 

Based on recent government speak here, I've noticed the use of "...with the parents permission" when referring to the efforts to vaccinate some 4.8 mm 12-17 YO school-children with Pfizer (2x).

 

 

 

Then the question remains, how will unvaccinated children be dealt with? Separately? In genpop? You should ask the school for their policies and plans regarding unvaccinated students.

 

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

They don’t ‘always' keep up with Antigenic drift - hence the severity of the variation of the H1N1 outbreak in 2009, virologists did not managed to track and predict that in time. 

You mean THIS H1N1 outbreak in 2009? The hoax pandemic that killed 15,000 people globally?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242147/The-false-pandemic-Drug-firms-cashed-scare-swine-flu-claims-Euro-health-chief.html

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/10396382

 

https://www.forbes.com/2010/03/10/swine-flu-world-health-organization-pandemic-opinions-contributors-henry-i-miller.html?sh=275142916170

 

[2009]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:04 PM, Justanotherone said:

The idea that young people have to risk their health to protect old people is absurd.

 

Overweight and old people are more prone to get serious covid.

 

They should get vaxxed and quarantined, not healthy people.

 

 

Covid showed how stupid people are in believing propaganda of fear.

 

1976 all over again.

 

Heart disease, cancer, diabetes = real top causes of mortality way more than anything and no jab or lockdown EVER

Exactly

 

And top 2 causes of death of under 18s in Thailand: road accident and drowning.

 

How about mandatory helmets and swimming lessons, before covid vaccines?

[Jeffr2]

On 9/10/2021 at 2:42 PM, cclub75 said:

Sad you don't undertand this : the vaccines your talking about it... were tested for years... before given to children, on a large scale.

 

And those vaccines were "classic" (attenuated virus)... impossible to compare with the new ARN messenger products...

 

But I guess you do know this, don't you ?

Sad you don't understand this: we're in the middle of a global pandemic that has already killed millions. With millions more to come unless we get vaccinated.

 

Right now, one of the major sources for infections are children. And they are filling up hospitals. Many whom will suffer long covid.

 

Sad you don't understand this.

[Jeffr2]

30 minutes ago, 2009 said:

Exactly

 

And top 2 causes of death of under 18s in Thailand: road accident and drowning.

 

How about mandatory helmets and swimming lessons, before covid vaccines?

Please. Don't compare road accidents and swimming deaths to covid. That's a ridiculous comparison.

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

36 minutes ago, 2009 said:

Exactly

 

And top 2 causes of death of under 18s in Thailand: road accident and drowning.

 

How about mandatory helmets and swimming lessons, before covid vaccines?

Please. Don't compare road accidents and swimming deaths to covid. That's a ridiculous comparison.

While its comparing ‘apples to oranges’ somewhat, there is room for comparison, but not in the manner in which the poster 2009 used as a basis for comparison. 

 

That children are also dying from other preventable issues does not dilute the risk from Covid-19. 

 

Rather 2009’s comment would have been far more relevant had he mentioned that in addition to Covid-19 vaccines there should be swimming lessons in schools, road safety lessons and of course, mandatory helmets (which are mandatory by the way, just not enforced !).

 

 

[richard_smith237]

48 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

19 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

They don’t ‘always' keep up with Antigenic drift - hence the severity of the variation of the H1N1 outbreak in 2009, virologists did not managed to track and predict that in time. 

You mean THIS H1N1 outbreak in 2009? The hoax pandemic that killed 15,000 people globally?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242147/The-false-pandemic-Drug-firms-cashed-scare-swine-flu-claims-Euro-health-chief.html

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/10396382

 

https://www.forbes.com/2010/03/10/swine-flu-world-health-organization-pandemic-opinions-contributors-henry-i-miller.html?sh=275142916170

Yes... I mean that pandemic.... the one which CDC estimated that 151,700-575,400 people worldwide died from (H1N1) pdm09 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

 

 

Up to you what you believe... 

 

 

 

 

 

[thailandbeachisland]

I would never vaccinate myself, let alone kids. Parents doing so are criminals.

 

[thailandbeachisland]

29 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sad you don't understand this: we're in the middle of a global pandemic that has already killed millions.

 

and what about the 99% who survived ? ridiculous !

 

 

[2009]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Please. Don't compare road accidents and swimming deaths to covid. That's a ridiculous comparison.

Exactly, we can't compare.

 

Road accidents and swimming deaths account for most child deaths in Thailand.

 

Whereas, covid is virtually no threat to them.

 

But don't you think we should be more concerned about child safety than children getting vaccines to protect others?

 

Ironically, more kids would die on the motorcycle going to the clinic to get the vaccine than the virus itself!

[2009]

For the record, I am not against vaccines. I was vaccinated in the first 10% of Thailand.

 

But to force it in schools seems unnecessary.

 

And schools do nothing when children ride through their gates on motorcycles from the age of 12 or 13 in major cities. In rural areas, could be as young as 9 or 10.

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, thailandbeachisland said:

 

and what about the 99% who survived ? ridiculous !

 

 

99% is not the survival rate. Also doesn't take into consideration long term effects, long covid or those who suffered for weeks.

 

Ridiculous!

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, 2009 said:

Exactly, we can't compare.

 

Road accidents and swimming deaths account for most child deaths in Thailand.

 

Whereas, covid is virtually no threat to them.

 

But don't you think we should be more concerned about child safety than children getting vaccines to protect others?

 

Ironically, more kids would die on the motorcycle going to the clinic to get the vaccine than the virus itself!

The delta variant is going after children now. Lots of news about this. Not to mention they are now super spreaders.

 

This is being widely reported.

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, 2009 said:

For the record, I am not against vaccines. I was vaccinated in the first 10% of Thailand.

 

But to force it in schools seems unnecessary.

 

And schools do nothing when children ride through their gates on motorcycles from the age of 12 or 13 in major cities. In rural areas, could be as young as 9 or 10.

Seems doctors and scientists don't agree with you.

[Scott]

Posts with unattributed graphs removed.  

 

[2009]

The removed detail was an infographic from University College London stating that the risk of a child dying from covid is 2 in a million. Not sure what was wrong with that. Seems on topic.

 

Also, a chart from a Thai scientific study comparing leading causes of death in children. Almost 20 in 100,000 for drowning and traffic accident (each, not together).