Immigration logic

[FlorC]

So we got our own immigration office in the province , but in 2020 I noticed they wanted my hand/finger print , once . I pretty sure I didn't have to do that at the other province' office.

Not really a fan of that .
This year they had 2 fingerprint machines , and I had to do it at each one. What ??
It's a strict office , and every 90 days you have to show your bankbook , have a copy ready or they will make one.
At my last extention , I bring in the usual bankletter and copies of the whole year , like I do for the last 6 or 7 years ( so much for privacy on how much I spend) . Not only do they have them from the 90 days and the ones I give when applying , but they even make more copies and now tell me I have to go back to the bank (3 km walk) to get a yearly statement  !! Again what the ??

I really hate banks and have to pay another 200 B for a printout of the last 12 months. That's 300 B for the bank.

The logic doesn't end here.

I fill in the TM7 , with a photo ( another 70 to 100 B) , then they print out the TM7 , after taking my picture just like the fingerprint , TWICE , with 2 different webcams AND the printout picture on the TM7 is theirs (from the webcam(s)) , not mine !

So I'm spending 300 B on the f..g bank , for data they already have twice or more , and 100 B for pictures they don't really use . Immigration office logic ?
They were nice and friendly though , so you docilely comply. What else can I do.
If I'm lucky ?? or unlucky , this may be my last or nearly last extention.

 

Yes I know 1900 B + 100 B picture + 300 B for f.g bank + 50 B hospital letter and some change for copies is still a low price to get a year extention. 

 

[BangkokReady]

There is often zero logic when it comes to bureaucracy.  You could perhaps suggest that the logic comes from them wanting you to jump through these hoops to make you feel unwelcome, to make themselves appear more efficient, cautious, hard working, etc., or to make the Thai citizens believe they are doing a good job and keep an eye on dangerous foreigners.

[FlorC]

Yes , that's me , a dangerous foreigner ! They have my prints from last year and my passport has them too , if they can access them.

 

Unwelcome ?  No they were nice to me . I've had much worse years ago.

[DrJack54]

Which immigration office? 

BTW some things you mention are down to you.

[FlorC]

Not naming the immigration office here , I don't want to poke the Thai elephant and

they were nice and I have nothing bad to say about them.

It's just the logic that I can't understand.

If they asked 2100 instead of 1900 , I wouldn't blink , but an extra 200 for the bank , really bites.

 

BTW some things you mention are down to you

 

Really ? What is down to me ?

 

[ronster]

Logic is a word that is redundant in this country !!

I see people doing the simplest of things and making it into the something that would be in Einstein’s notepad . ????

Two examples in last few days are getting dog a haircut and getting a vaccine. Dogs hair takes a hour at most and same for most dogs roughly so I asked wife to book appointment. She goes in and comes out and I ask what time it’s for . She says I just call and they tell me busy or not ????

Getting vaccine was a nightmare. Told appointment was at 1pm and arrive 15 minutes before. So 300 people are there at 1pm all waiting in line to submit passport copy and proof off appointment , then when done this they are all standing around waiting in the middle of a working hospital area for their name to be called to go get the jab .
Why can’t they think ok tell 75 people come between 1-1.30pm , same for 1.30-2pm etc . Oh that’s right , because they have no logic !! ????

[IvorBiggun2]

7 minutes ago, FlorC said:

Not naming the immigration office here

Why not? Perhaps then others will then come forward to confirm your experiences. At the moment your story is all news to me.

 

12 minutes ago, FlorC said:

I don't want to poke the Thai elephant and

they were nice and I have nothing bad to say about them.

So you think immigration officers have nothing better to do than read forum posters gripes? And then they hunt down the snitch that spoke bad about them? Give over. Name and shame.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Some of the things you mentioned are common to other IO’s also.

On my annual retirement extension ( done last week ) I also have to produce a 12 month bank statement, this is the 2nd year I have done this in line with some changes made to the financial requirements for retirement extensions.

200 baht for the statement + 100 baht for the bank letter.

Bank book to be updated on the day of extension, I usually withdraw 1000 baht to enable the update to be dated correctly.

 

A webcam photo is normal practice.

 

Only the fingerprinting is something I have not seen before.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

the logic is there but hidden & seldom explained. for example, well known that vax appt days & times are not really personal to you, just given to spread out customer appearance numbers for workload purposes.1st jab done 8am day after appt. after I turned back seeing huge crowds & reading four hour process on TVF. 2nd AZ appt.19 Sept done 14 Sept. all other expats insisting to keep their official exact appt. times, as if back home, even after I explain. very definition of compliant sheep. and these are smart knowledgeable folk. who then believe the small round kiddy logo promo stickers put in their passports at vax centres are actually intl. covid certs !! no bar codes or qr codes…… incredible.

another guy came away from his 1st jab with just such sticker ! and nothing else . no hospital cert ! 

so the real logic failures are by expats who when confronted by bureaucratic process here fail to engage brain to think right what is my essential outcome here…..and work towards that……my own covid vax admin. process was literally screwed up from start to finish……needed wits & tact & multiple visits, to negotiate through to the end game of hospital cert. 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

same with Immigration. its a perfectly logical BUSINESS.with two objectives. One : Humiliation.make “requirements” so awkward foreigners are forced to Agent or forced out the country or left a frustrated angry fearful mess. Two: MONEY. back to One/ Agent………stop comparing Thailand govt. with western customer service & western logic !

 

[foreverlomsak]

14 hours ago, FlorC said:

+ 50 B hospital letter

what hospital letter?

[foreverlomsak]

36 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

, I usually withdraw 1000 baht to enable the update to be dated correctly.

1,900 Baht in my case, that way I can always turn round and say it's all I took out and therefore all I've got on me.

[FlorC]

47 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Some of the things you mentioned are common to other IO’s also.

On my annual retirement extension ( done last week ) I also have to produce a 12 month bank statement, this is the 2nd year I have done this in line with some changes made to the financial requirements for retirement extensions.

200 baht for the statement + 100 baht for the bank letter.

Bank book to be updated on the day of extension, I usually withdraw 1000 baht to enable the update to be dated correctly.

 

A webcam photo is normal practice.

 

Only the fingerprinting is something I have not seen before.

Thanks for that , at least now I know the 200 B for 12 month is correct.

For me it was the first time.

 

Since 2 or 3 years , it did start to change . I did the bankletter usually the day before , before going to the immi in another province , but now it has to be the same day and required to withdraw or deposit something not just a printout .

 

They really seem obsessed with the 400k/800k. A Baht less and they can throw me out?

 

Yes webcam is normal , but like the fingerprinting TWICE ??

And why bring a photo , if they use the webcam ?

[FlorC]

27 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

same with Immigration. its a perfectly logical BUSINESS.with two objectives. One : Humiliation.make “requirements” so awkward foreigners are forced to Agent or forced out the country or left a frustrated angry fearful mess. Two: MONEY. back to One/ Agent………stop comparing Thailand govt. with western customer service & western logic !

 

I don't even know if there is such a thing as agents in my province.

 

I won't Thai bash , bureaucracy in my western country can be an equal pain in the a.. .

[FlorC]

25 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

what hospital letter?

So you're one of the lucky ones ...

 

I don't even ask if it is a requirement anymore.

Just go and get it , even if it is more risk to go to the hospital these days with covid.

[Andrew Dwyer]

4 minutes ago, FlorC said:

Thanks for that , at least now I know the 200 B for 12 month is correct.

For me it was the first time.

 

Since 2 or 3 years , it did start to change . I did the bankletter usually the day before , before going to the immi in another province , but now it has to be the same day and required to withdraw or deposit something not just a printout .

 

They really seem obsessed with the 400k/800k. A Baht less and they can throw me out?

 

Yes webcam is normal , but like the fingerprinting TWICE ??

And why bring a photo , if they use the webcam ?

Yes, I have to order my 12 month statement from Bangkok Bank , takes 3-4 days. Return to the bank to get statement and a letter, make a small transaction and update bank book then off to immigration, this takes all morning.

90 days done online so immigration visit once a year and is only 10 mins away, so all in all could be worse.

 

The photo goes on their paper copy to be filed, often wonder where they store all this paperwork ?? but in the past have received receipts which are on the back of some expats paperwork !!

The number of copies they make is also amazing, no wonder wood is so expensive in Thailand !!

[Scott Tracy]

14 hours ago, FlorC said:

Yes I know 1900 B + 100 B picture + 300 B for f.g bank + 50 B hospital letter and some change for copies is still a low price to get a year extention. 

I get charged 20 baht for the copy of the current page of the passbook, too. The cost of the bank statements/letter went from 200 to 300 this year.

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Yes, I have to order my 12 month statement from Bangkok Bank , takes 3-4 days.

That depends upon where you are located. It takes about a week to get one at most locations. 

It has taken at least a week to get mine. This year it was a week and at a day from the day I requested it.

[StevieAus]

15 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

There is often zero logic when it comes to bureaucracy.  You could perhaps suggest that the logic comes from them wanting you to jump through these hoops to make you feel unwelcome, to make themselves appear more efficient, cautious, hard working, etc., or to make the Thai citizens believe they are doing a good job and keep an eye on dangerous foreigners.

Or you could suggest that if they streamlined the process, made it more efficient and dispensed with the requirement for so much documentation they could also dispense with a lot of staff.

In support of my argument if you deal with other governments  where Thais and Non Thais alike face the same requirements the same inefficiencies exist.

The only exception is the Thai Passport Office where documentation required is scanned, they take the photos and they are extremely helpful and proficient and the new passport arrives in a few days.

Interestingly they seem to have minimal numbers of staff.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

yes, paradox that Thai Passport & Thai ID Office has the best & easiest processes I’ ve ever seen or heard about,  in the World,  yet their Municipal& Imm. offices can be a nightmare.

[FlorC]

25 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Yes, I have to order my 12 month statement from Bangkok Bank , takes 3-4 days. Return to the bank to get statement and a letter, make a small transaction and update bank book then off to immigration, this takes all morning.

90 days done online so immigration visit once a year and is only 10 mins away, so all in all could be worse.

 

The photo goes on their paper copy to be filed, often wonder where they store all this paperwork ?? but in the past have received receipts which are on the back of some expats paperwork !!

The number of copies they make is also amazing, no wonder wood is so expensive in Thailand !!

Bank letter in a hour , the 12 month statement 10 minutes . Krungsri bank.

But with the delay to go back to the bank , immi was on their break and had to wait ,

less songtaews back in the afternoon , so more waiting.

 

Yes Thai have their fetish with signed copies. A copy only costs 50 sat , so no worries.

[FlorC]

16 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

I get charged 20 baht for the copy of the current page of the passbook, too. The cost of the bank statements/letter went from 200 to 300 this year.

One way to compensate for the bad loans , I guess.

[Andrew Dwyer]

9 minutes ago, FlorC said:

Bank letter in a hour , the 12 month statement 10 minutes . Krungsri bank.

But with the delay to go back to the bank , immi was on their break and had to wait ,

less songtaews back in the afternoon , so more waiting.

 

Yes Thai have their fetish with signed copies. A copy only costs 50 sat , so no worries.

Well at least you don’t have any delay waiting for the statement which means a return visit another day for many.

 

My IO charge 20 baht for copies, irrespective of quantity.

Which is okay because they always like to have copies of all the pages of my bank book and copies of passport pages from donkeys years ago.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Andrew Dwyer

[KhunBENQ]

15 hours ago, FlorC said:

I fill in the TM7 , with a photo ( another 70 to 100 B) , then they print out the TM7 , after taking my picture just like the fingerprint , TWICE , with 2 different webcams AND the printout picture on the TM7 is theirs (from the webcam(s)) , not mine !

Similar observation in Khon Kaen. No fingerprint but also picture and newly printed TM7. Can't they publish and streamline the process? Why bring a photo? Does TM7 and photo end in the bin or add to the waste-paper stockroom?

But for the rest quite happy with KK office. No harassment.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by KhunBENQ

[Gottfrid]

They just love you too much and want you to stay long time every visit you make. Next time, bring donuts and coffee. ???? 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Does TM7 and photo end in the bin or add to the waste-paper stockroom?

When I did mine last month the TM7 form I did was still in the stack of copies along with the one with the photo of my wife and I together.

Apparently the photo is prove you did the application in person.

[thaibook]

Indeed, the municipal office for IDs, is efficient.  I went with my wife whose ID had expired as we stayed in the US longer than originally planned because of covid.  She was issued a new ID card within 30 minutes.  She did not need to produce a photograph, they took one, and it even shows her new blue book address even though she was not asked for an address.  So some information systems are linked up.  The staff at this office are also adamant that they do not take tea money (stated on various occasions by employees in different sections).

 

Perhaps the difficulty arises in departments run by the RTP (immigration is part of the police) which is endemically corrupt. 

[khunjeff]

15 hours ago, FlorC said:

They have my prints from last year

One of the main reasons for collecting biometric information is to make sure that the person in front of the desk is the same as the person in the computer record. They took your prints last year, and they take them again this year and the machine compares them and confirms that it's still the same guy. That's actually exactly how the system is supposed to work.

 

Why they scanned your fingers on two different machines is a separate question. If you applied for a reentry permit in addition to the extension, they probably would have fingerprinted you separately for that (that's what's done at CW anyway). If you only did the extension application and nothing else, I have no idea.

[IvorBiggun2]

Why do a fingerprint scan when they already have you logged in on facial recognision?

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

right so showing up in person with passport , bank docs , house books etc, is not enough.

honestly what are the (astronomical) chances of someone stealing all these docs and then presenting same & fake self at Imm. !!! its not like you are accessing a secret bank account in Switz…….

just another humiliation bs tactic. presenting as “due diligence” of course.

see my above post on the reality of the Imm. business……