My wife's idea for our kids to avoid National Service / Army - Is it genius or flawed? :-)

[mattk1]

Hello everyone,

 

In short: if my half Thai/British kids leave Thailand on their Thai passports but return on their British passports – would that work for them to dodge Thai army / national service as they would be treated as ‘foreigners’ who need a visa and 90 day reports?

 

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This is off the back of the following post I made if anyone wants to read the backstory ;

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1229540-thai-kids-had-to-enter-thailand-on-uk-passports-for-sandbox-now-we-got-issues-advice-needed/

 

So basically, in the post I linked to above, when my kids arrived in Thailand through Phuket Sandbox, they had to use their British passports, rather than their expired Thai passports. Normally it wouldn’t be a problem to use their expired Thai passports but we had to use their British ones to obtain the Certificate of Entry.

 

My wife and I both assumed that once we had renewed their Thai passports in Thailand, that it would be a simple case of telling immigration. But this wasn’t to be the and my THAI kids had to apply for a one year visa plus 90 days reports. They are foreigners in the eyes of immigration.

Needless to say, my wife was unhappy about this and described this process as ridiculous. I agree with her that it’s ridiculous but that’s the Thai way.

We were eating lunch today and were talking about Thai national service. Our kids are a few years off yet (they are only 9 and 7), and we currently live in England. However, my wife wants to move back to Thailand in the next couple of years, kids ‘n all, and she mentioned this plan.

 

If, when our kids are near to the army lottery call up time, we leave Thailand on their Thai passports but then return on their British passports, would this avoid them being called for national service?

My wife says if immigration want to play silly games like this about visas then why shouldn’t we play the system too (yes she was very annoyed at the visa thing).

 

So once we entered Thailand on their British passports, it would be a case of getting them a one year visa, one year after the other until they are too old for national service. Then we leave Thailand on their British passports and return on Thai passports afterwards.

 

Has my missus hatched a genius plan here or is there some flaw in it?

 

Cheers

[ubonjoe]

Moved to the Family and Children.

[ozimoron]

My guess is that their passport would be irrelevant and the national ID card would be used. Only a guess, I have no insight.

[ArcticFox]

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

[Nojohndoe]

I believe I have read that if born in Thailand and have Thai ID which would enable issuing a Thai Passport they are still liable for conscription regardless of having dual Passport/Nationality..

Entering Thailand on a non Thai Passport is no guarantee the "system" is unaware of their presence or even if not it it disqualifies them from lottery .

 

 

[Nojohndoe]

3 minutes ago, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

Were you a conscript or voluntary enlisted person?

[mikebike]

Not sure why your wife was miffed... Your kids arrived as British citizens and have been treated as such.

 

As mentioned above, if your kids are living here permanently as Thai citizens they will need an ID card. Military service lottery will be based on Thai ID card.

[pookondee]

I dont get how the idea of leaving/returning on seperate passports can even work at all.

 

If entering Thailand from abroad on a different pp,  surely Thai Immigration will be looking for a previous exit stamp?

 

The exit stamp that would be in your other passport.?

 

 

[mattk1]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

Not sure why your wife was miffed... Your kids arrived as British citizens and have been treated as such.

 

As mentioned above, if your kids are living here permanently as Thai citizens they will need an ID card. Military service lottery will be based on Thai ID card.

Hmm, you really don't understand why the miffed'ness is as a factor? ????

[mattk1]

5 minutes ago, pookondee said:

I dont get how the idea of leaving/returning on seperate passports can even work at all.

 

If entering Thailand from abroad on a different pp,  surely Thai Immigration will be looking for a previous exit stamp?

 

The exit stamp that would be in your other passport.?

 

 

But they would exit on Thai passports.. thus showing them as left the country

Edited September 23, 2021 by mattk1

[pookondee]

Just now, mattk1 said:

But they could exit on British passport..

So....is it the case that a Thai passport holder does not get exit/entry stamped when entering and exiting?

No stamps to match up?

 

[tifino]

SIL brought all her family down to Sydney decades ago. Anyway nephew eventually reaches the age that any travel to Thailand put his at risk of being snaffled by the Army... 

 So, she eventually convinced him to take the other option of being a Monk for 3 months...  

 

All worked out okay, except he came back to OZ eventually as a blimp 

[mattk1]

3 minutes ago, pookondee said:

So....is it the case that a Thai passport holder does not get exit/entry stamped when entering and exiting?

No stamps to match up?

 

Sorry I edited my post afterwards - see above.

 

So when they leave Thailand as Thais and on Thai passports, I'm not sure if they get an exit stamp but even if they did, they would be returning with a British passport as foreigners, so no stamps to match up right?

[pookondee]

4 minutes ago, mattk1 said:

Sorry I edited my post afterwards - see above.

 

So when they leave Thailand as Thais and on Thai passports, I'm not sure if they get an exit stamp but even if they did, they would be returning with a British passport as foreigners, so no stamps to match up right?

ok i guess someone in the know can verify.

I would have thought Immigration systems would have information of other passports linked to the same person but i dont know Jack.

[Fab5BKK]

57 minutes ago, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

Interesting post of yours...

 

Background info, military service was mandatory in my country and I made the choice to become an officer (training at the Officer Academy, rank: Lieutenant)

 

You claimed to be a "vet", it'd be good to know the rank you managed to reach at the end of your duties.

 

BTW, situation in Thailand is quite different. If I'm not mistaken, a Thai kid who has a non-Thai dad can be called for military service BUT can't become an officer in the Thai army.

 

So, who is the most "morally bankrupt"?

[Swiss1960]

8 hours ago, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

As a vet of another country I partially agree with you. HOWEVER given what you can read about the treatment of soldiers in the Thai army, I would also do everything possible to get my son out of this "club" 

 

@mattk1: Your wife's idea is flawed, since I assume that the sons would NOT live in Thailand as British citizens, but as Thai - just in order to go to school, work, not applying annually for extensions etc. I ALSO assume that they would be in a blue book somewhere, therefore officially registered as Thai citizens in Thailand, therefore fully within the system. 

[FalangTingTong]

At the risk of providing useless anecdata…

 

In the EU I have been asked before at national borders whether I have any other passports,  probably because of my weird international accent.

 

I don’t have, but if I did and lied about it I would be committing a serious crime, and if caught I would expect national entry bans at the very least.

 

So keep in mind that if you’re betting your kids’ convenience/safety/education or whatever on avoiding obligations via passport tricks, at any time they might have to show their cards, and your troubles might suddenly be much greater than had you just parked them in Britain long enough for the issue to time out,  YMMV of course, just my opinion.

[baansgr]

And what they gonna do here as foreigners...they won't be able to work

[Mickeem]

How about asking the Sino Thais .. I have encountered many a brown skinned Thai squaddie conscript but no light skin Sino's for some reason ..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bbko]

I don't know if this is an official policy, but I've heard someone is luk khrueng, they aren't pulled into military service here.

Edited September 24, 2021 by bbko

[sanuk711]

mattki--I am sure you understand you have some options----if they volunteer, then I am told treated better and just do 24 weeks. Get 9,000bht a month and may learn something about life / discipline etc.

"“I would say about half of our recruits every year have used drugs at one point or another,” said Wichit Seeprasert. “We can help them temporarily stop because we do checks but after they leave it’s out of our control.”--Defense Command

 

Take your chance with the  Lotto  100,000 are wanted--..... so odds are good

If they have a degree in anything--join the officers training course--3 years, better pay and leave. Or, If there doing a degree they can ask for deferment.

 

I dont know the situation with your sons--would it benefit them or not.

I live in Issan and every year they hold the Lotto in the grounds of the Goverment Gym where I go to. Lots of screaming and crying for ones who had young wives and children.

 

Can be very  sad-- and Of course - , just like I used to see at all the bus stations when I lived in  Pattaya--the usual Mængdā are there to help the younger wives out.

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

It's definitely worth looking at the Cadet Service (not sure what it's called in Thai) as that can get them out of doing the conscription lottery.

 

Or they could actually volunteer which could get them in the navy or air force, a much nicer ride than the army.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Nojohndoe said:

Were you a conscript or voluntary enlisted person?

As I agree with him, I'll reply, and I was a volunteer. IMO it should be like Singapore ( when I was there, and I don't know if still happens ) and EVERYONE should do national service- no exceptions. Don't serve don't get to vote, IMO. Citizenship needs to be earned, IMO.

 

PS. IMO alternatives to military service should be allowed, but for the same length of time etc.

Edited September 24, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[bbko]

21 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It's definitely worth looking at the Cadet Service (not sure what it's called in Thai) as that can get them out of doing the conscription lottery.

In Thailand it's called Territorial Defense Student  (นักศึกษาวิชาทหาร) 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_Defense_Student 

[Nojohndoe]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As I agree with him, I'll reply, and I was a volunteer. IMO it should be like Singapore ( when I was there, and I don't know if still happens ) and EVERYONE should do national service- no exceptions. Don't serve don't get to vote, IMO. Citizenship needs to be earned, IMO.

 

PS. IMO alternatives to military service should be allowed, but for the same length of time etc.

Ok. My question was simply to establish the flavour of opinion , not criticize it.

 

[BMW Overlander]

Current rate to pay and avoid serving in Thai Army is around THB 50,000-70,000. Nothing illegal about it, it is common practice. Once payment is made, Army will issue the document confirming young boy is not required to do military service. Me and wife did this for our son. I don't want him to serve in army whose main objective is terrorizing its own people and removing democratically elected governments. Not to mention poor safety records primitive training methods, mysterious deaths of conscripts, faulty parachutes and other mishaps we read about on regular basis.

 

Another option is to send your kid(s) to 30 days military camps for 2 consecutive years during high school summer breaks. Best friend of my son did this and is no longer under obligation to serve. 

 

If your family has a friend in military, preferably rank of lieutenant or above, ask for additional info and he can put you in touch with relevant people. This is the way we went about it and worked JUST FINE. The whole process lasts about 2 months.

[Can samui]

Buy them each a set of boobs…..problem solved.

[The Deerhunter]

So all the kids who never had any passport would then be exempt if possession of a Thai Passport was necessary for the draft???????????????

[chilly07]

Thai recruitment lottery is based on ID cards and house registration books not passports so no it won't work. 

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, bbko said:

I don't know if this is an official policy, but I've heard someone is luk khrueng, they aren't pulled into military service here.

Many luk khrueng have the contacts or money to avoid service.