Conspiracy Theories

[CharlieH]

I am not posting this because it's something I personally believe in, let's get that out of the way first.

 

This is something I came across and as they say there can be a grain of truth in every "theory". That's how many of these gain ground and are subsequently elaborated on and distorted and then the "conspiracy Theory" is born.

 

Here is one I came across today and I was curious what others make of this, is it possible to some degree? are things really being evolved in this way ?

 

It goes like this, Facebook, Instagranm, Whats App have all updated the small print to allow them to access many aspects of your personal life and details.

This has been going on for over a decade but quietly and surely increasing in its depth of the information gathered and how. Why ? well because of A.I artificial intelligence has been growing faster and is telling the developers what it needs etc and then implements that across the platforms. The idea a while back where there was a function to see how your face would change in 10 years, this was a learning tool for facial recognition software. Many A.I functions are being tried and tested this way as more and more interact with the Social Media platforms.

Then we have Covid, this in effect has pushed even more toward online activity and so the ball continues to gather its momentum and info gathering. They can (apparently) now access you, your bank account, your messages, your deleted messages, and even monitor you from any devices around you ! Truly the Big Brother scenario.

 

Ok, so, what is your take on this ? is this being blown out of proportion, is some of it possible and its just being enhanced to suit a conspiracy agenda ? Who knows, but IF any of this is true then it does not bode well for privacy or lack thereof etc for the generations behind us.

 

What are your thoughts? do you even care? many often say "they can watch me all they like, got nothing to hide" which is of course true, but how would you feel if you tried to do something or go somewhere and you were confronted with "sorry your info says this, NO ! your not doing that etc. Scary or laughable ?

 

Did you know many of the "Customer Service" chat lines are actually A.I. now and not manned by people at all. I have encountered this atleast twice.

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

Did you know many of the "Customer Service" chat lines are actually A.I. now

It doesn't bother me really but there's always a but and I found recently that with AliExpress it was impossible to get an answer to my question.

All email addresses were not available, I will not use them again.

 

My UK on-line bank has started AI now on log in page, you can still get in touch with a person if you want though or use the message system..

 

[mikebike]

Not at all worried. I don't know of any agency, govt or otherwise, which could effectively process the vast amounts of data. Yes, if you are a "person of interest" in crime or terrorism they can filter out the needed data, but unless you are an a hole nobody is looking at your data except at a meta-level...

[473geo]

I figure if some entity really wished to do me some disservice they would find a way to access my data relatively easily! so I try to be straight in data I provide, thus a repeat question will get the same response if checked.

Other than that have dealt with AI and on one occasion was actually supplied with the answer, mostly though if I submit a question have usually been through the simple. First level options provided by AI customer service.

[ozimoron]

Quote

It goes like this, Facebook, Instagram, Whats App have all updated the small print to allow them to access many aspects of your personal life and details.

The reason they want this data is straight forward and has nothing to do with any big brother conspiracy theories. Facebook et al make money by offering advertisers a targeted audience. Things like location, age, sex, etc are very obvious. Less obvious are your habits, things you like, your friends and what they like, your politics and so on. It simply saves advertisers money by not having to waste it on a scatter gun approach. They are unlikely to sell this data because apart from being sued, it would destroy their business model. Anyway, if you want to use their platforms you have to agree that they collect it.

 

Secondly, don't overestimate AI. It is moving much slower than most people think. Many of the functions like facial aging, etc are not AI at all but are traditional algorithmic programming.

 

Customer service systems are not AI. They are simply programmed PBX systems, the largest of which is Asterisk. These simply have text to voice systems like Polly and pre-designed menu systems designed to reduce the load on real people.

 

How do you tell the difference between a conspiracy theory and a real conspiracy?

 

A real conspiracy:

a. Happens over a short period of time.

b. Involves very few people

c. Is a well kept secret.

 

A conspiracy theory:

a. Happens over a long period of time

b. Involves lots of people who would all, implausibly, have to keep silent in order to protect it.

c. Is widely known about and splashed all over social media.

 

[swissie]

Before, every village had it's village idiot. They were mostly ignored and their "reach" was limited to the village. These days, the same village idiot, thanks to his keyboard, has a "global reach". Social media is the gratest "manure-spreader" the world has ever known.

Afraid of the "Big Brother(s)?: Make it hard for them. For a start: Stop using your credit card and pay in form of cash. Because: "Tell me what you buy and I know who/what you are".

[tgw]

@CharlieH

 

it's not being blown out of proportion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

 

what you describe is exactly (part of) what's happening, but you probably imagine it on a ten- or twentyfold lesser scale than what they are really doing.

 

I wrote many posts on this forum in the past before the Snowden thing, and I was called a paranoid loon by many posters. I had my first TMS-7020 based computer at the age of 9 and immediately started to learn programming. Although market finance was my main field of study and trade, I also worked in IT security and have also been an IT security consultant for the government.

 

in a nutshell, not only are they doing what you suspect them doing, but they are very probably doing much more.

did you look at that US intelligence analysis of GPS locators of cellphones in the Wuhan lab? it's just an example. they probably know where your phone was at an exact time 3 years ago as well as which phones were nearby. this, and much much much more.

I don't think cryptography certificates are safe, at least not under a length of 4096.

You can assume several intelligence agencies from several countries can access your phone, write messages on it without you knowing, etc.

 

In the "good" countries, citizens have protection against these techniques - our countries' legal systems don't allow these techniques to be used in normal police / criminal investigations.

In countries like China however, I would consider any information or evidence from digital sources, including personal devices, computers, browser histories, etc. as potentially tainted.

 

The one single important thing is that intelligence agencies promise, swear, etc. to not use the technology against citizens ... except incase of national security concerns.

We also know that for US law,  non-US citizens are cattle, including allied heads of state.

 

You can bet that right now there are conspirations under way using digital technology, planting false evidence, etc.

 

you can also read up on stuxnet, there is a good documentary about the subject called "zero days". it's old (2016), but it still is very interesting.

also because of the IT security implications.

 

Cambridge Analytics ... and example of what happens when user data is exploited for political purposes.

Result: Brexit. Probably part of a Russian intelligence operation:

 

 

all these things aren't directly linked, but they are components of today's data universe and there are many highly skilled and very secretive players in the field.

 

and the extent of it all is much bigger than you imagine

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by tgw

[zzaa09]

7 minutes ago, swissie said:

Before, every village had it's village idiot. They were mostly ignored and their "reach" was limited to the village. These days, the same village idiot, thanks to his keyboard, has a "global reach". Social media is the gratest "manure-spreader" the world has ever known.

Afraid of the "Big Brother(s)?: Make it hard for them. For a start: Stop using your credit card and pay in form of cash. Because: "Tell me what you buy and I know who/what you are".

Live one's protest or be the change that you would like to see in the world. 

Easier said than done, as most populations have been dumbed down greatly. 

 

....the more "civilised" the respective culture, the deeper presence of dumbing down exist. 

Most don't have the ability to recognize, nor ever will.

[swissie]

Newsflash: The Swiss Navy will take over the French Submarines that the Australians diden't want in exchange for letting the Swiss Banks off the hook in connection with money laundering in France.
Greetings, the village idiot.

[TooBigToFit]

56 minutes ago, swissie said:

Before, every village had it's village idiot. They were mostly ignored and their "reach" was limited to the village. These days, the same village idiot, thanks to his keyboard, has a "global reach". Social media is the gratest "manure-spreader" the world has ever known.

Afraid of the "Big Brother(s)?: Make it hard for them. For a start: Stop using your credit card and pay in form of cash. Because: "Tell me what you buy and I know who/what you are".

This thread is looking for our village idiots. They'll show, but the real loonies don't even go online. That's probably the best solution for them anyways. Just go live in the forest "off the grid".

 

I'd like to see all the conspiracies put on a timeline because most of the believers seem to forget the last ones and move on. I mean what happened to the 5G, chem trails and those earthquakes made by the CIA or whoever in the US. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned anything. Now, the zombies are coming.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

@CharlieH

 

it's not being blown out of proportion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

 

what you describe is exactly (part of) what's happening, but you probably imagine it on a ten- or twentyfold lesser scale than what they are really doing.

 

I wrote many posts on this forum in the past before the Snowden thing, and I was called a paranoid loon by many posters. I had my first TMS-7020 based computer at the age of 9 and immediately started to learn programming. Although market finance was my main field of study and trade, I also worked in IT security and have also been an IT security consultant for the government.

 

in a nutshell, not only are they doing what you suspect them doing, but they are very probably doing much more.

did you look at that US intelligence analysis of GPS locators of cellphones in the Wuhan lab? it's just an example. they probably know where your phone was at an exact time 3 years ago as well as which phones were nearby. this, and much much much more.

I don't think cryptography certificates are safe, at least not under a length of 4096.

You can assume several intelligence agencies from several countries can access your phone, write messages on it without you knowing, etc.

 

In the "good" countries, citizens have protection against these techniques - our countries' legal systems don't allow these techniques to be used in normal police / criminal investigations.

In countries like China however, I would consider any information or evidence from digital sources, including personal devices, computers, browser histories, etc. as potentially tainted.

 

The one single important thing is that intelligence agencies promise, swear, etc. to not use the technology against citizens ... except incase of national security concerns.

We also know that for US law,  non-US citizens are cattle, including allied heads of state.

 

You can bet that right now there are conspirations under way using digital technology, planting false evidence, etc.

 

you can also read up on stuxnet, there is a good documentary about the subject called "zero days". it's old (2016), but it still is very interesting.

also because of the IT security implications.

 

Cambridge Analytics ... and example of what happens when user data is exploited for political purposes.

Result: Brexit. Probably part of a Russian intelligence operation:

 

 

all these things aren't directly linked, but they are components of today's data universe and there are many highly skilled and very secretive players in the field.

 

and the extent of it all is much bigger than you imagine

 

Im sure some people have the skills and resources to check my phone maybe get to deleted messages. However this is only the case for a select few really good people. Its not as easy as you think, so these resources are used for stuff like the wuhan lab. Not for me a nobody.

 

Normally a banking app is strong enough if it was not and if it was so easy criminals would have used it. I am pretty sure that what you say about intelligence agencies that they can do as you say. But its NOT easy and takes time effort and risk. So the chances it happens to you are really low.

 

I think basically most things can be cracked and hacked if a good enough person with enough resources tries. But that is so rare that it does not happen to many people. Once it becomes more normal defences will be put up. They like to keep these backdoors hidden.

 

Im not sure if you followed it but plenty of high profile cases phones could not be unlocked by governments. If it was all so easy those cases would never be in the news. So i don't dispute what you say but just think its nothing to worry about unless your an important enemy of some intelligence agency. 

 

 

[BritManToo]

Never been bothered what secret government organisations know about me.

I'm probably the dullest and least interesting person in the world.

 

Good luck using my latest FB posting of my dinner (pork steak, chips and HP sauce)!

Edited September 25, 2021 by BritManToo

[chessman]

Is this even classed as a conspiracy theory? Is is clear that these companies are gathering data about their users.

 

My favourite conspiracy theory is that the CIA wrote the song ‘wings of change’ and gave it to the German rock band Scorpion in order to provide an anthem to encourage a move away from communism in Russia.

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Never been bothered what secret government organisations know about me.

I'm probably the dullest and least interesting person in the world.

 

Good luck using my latest FB posting of my dinner (pork steak, chips and HP sauce)!

This post is useless without pictures

[cdemundo]

2 hours ago, swissie said:

Newsflash: The Swiss Navy will take over the French Submarines that the Australians diden't want in exchange for letting the Swiss Banks off the hook in connection with money laundering in France.
Greetings, the village idiot.

How come we never hear about the Swiss Navy Knife? Kinda makes you think. Let that sink in.

[swissie]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Never been bothered what secret government organisations know about me.

I'm probably the dullest and least interesting person in the world.

 

Good luck using my latest FB posting of my dinner (pork steak, chips and HP sauce)!

It's not the pictures of your Pork on your plate that is of interest to "big brother". It's your posts here that give a good portrait of your live/personality/livestyle.  Will eventually end up in someones "database".

 

Not in my "database". Overall I like your posts.

[swissie]

47 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

How come we never hear about the Swiss Navy Knife? Kinda makes you think. Let that sink in.

This is top secret: The Swiss Navy has a Navy Knife. A special fishing rod where whales as well as sardines can be catched.  Don't spread it around. The Chinese Copy-Cats are everywhere!

[tgw]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Im sure some people have the skills and resources to check my phone maybe get to deleted messages. However this is only the case for a select few really good people. Its not as easy as you think, so these resources are used for stuff like the wuhan lab. Not for me a nobody.

 

Normally a banking app is strong enough if it was not and if it was so easy criminals would have used it. I am pretty sure that what you say about intelligence agencies that they can do as you say. But its NOT easy and takes time effort and risk. So the chances it happens to you are really low.

 

I think basically most things can be cracked and hacked if a good enough person with enough resources tries. But that is so rare that it does not happen to many people. Once it becomes more normal defences will be put up. They like to keep these backdoors hidden.

 

Im not sure if you followed it but plenty of high profile cases phones could not be unlocked by governments. If it was all so easy those cases would never be in the news. So i don't dispute what you say but just think its nothing to worry about unless your an important enemy of some intelligence agency. 

 

 

all people interested in the stuff on your phone are not created equal. 

criminals don't have huge computing resiurces like the larger intelligence services.

also, criminals cannot use back doors made for them in operating systems, applications (got any applications that seem useless but can't be uninstalled from the phone, huh?), etc. 

yes, encryption is strong against criminals who cannot read the decrypted info directly from your phone screen as if they were there. the big guys can. 

 

yes of course, 99% of people dont need to be alarmed, because they are not a person of interest for these operations. 

things can change rapidly though. running for a political mandate, even small... being a vocal anti-nuclear protester?.. a journalist that disturbs the command levels? member of a computer security group? highly skilled specialist in a sensitive area? journalist in belarus or russia? 

many people are potentially at risk. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by tgw

[thaibeachlovers]

I've always assumed that someone can read everything I post on here, including my PMs, but if they want to monetise my ramblings they'll not be making much money off of it. If I ever have "personalised" ads I would ignore them as a matter of course.

 

Same as my phone conversations, so I minimise them as much as possible. I know even my basic phone can track me but if they want to infer something important about my trips to the supermarket so be it.

 

8 hours ago, swissie said:

Afraid of the "Big Brother(s)?: Make it hard for them. For a start: Stop using your credit card and pay in form of cash. Because: "Tell me what you buy and I know who/what you are".

Exactly. Also probably the reason they want to eliminate cash. The push for all online money exchanges is subtle, but early days yet.

 

[sipi]

I couldn't think of anything more boring than spying on Sipi.

How bloody desperate are they?

[seedy]

6 hours ago, tgw said:

(got any applications that seem useless but can't be uninstalled from the phone, huh?)

Root your phone - this gives you total control

[Pravda]

I dunno. How's AI doing on this forum? are my bank account and 7/11 stamps in danger?

[robblok]

7 hours ago, tgw said:

all people interested in the stuff on your phone are not created equal. 

criminals don't have huge computing resiurces like the larger intelligence services.

also, criminals cannot use back doors made for them in operating systems, applications (got any applications that seem useless but can't be uninstalled from the phone, huh?), etc. 

yes, encryption is strong against criminals who cannot read the decrypted info directly from your phone screen as if they were there. the big guys can. 

 

yes of course, 99% of people dont need to be alarmed, because they are not a person of interest for these operations. 

things can change rapidly though. running for a political mandate, even small... being a vocal anti-nuclear protester?.. a journalist that disturbs the command levels? member of a computer security group? highly skilled specialist in a sensitive area? journalist in belarus or russia? 

many people are potentially at risk. 

What your saying is still too negative, 99%.. id say 99.999999999% or something like that. I think you overstating the group.

[HeijoshinCool]

15 hours ago, CharlieH said:

What are your thoughts? do you even care? many often say "they can watch me all they like, got nothing to hide"

.

 

All I know is I feel you are always following me wherever I go...

 

There! There you are again!

 

[papa al]

14 hours ago, mikebike said:

unless you are an a hole nobody

... papa in trouble ...

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, seedy said:

Root your phone - this gives you total control

LOL. I assume "root" has a different meaning than the one that comes to my mind!

[seedy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooting_(Android)

[tgw]

8 hours ago, seedy said:

Root your phone - this gives you total control

lol, yeah, sure.

I'm afraid you got no say, even if you root your phone.

you will need to reinstall device drivers, an operating system, etc. they all have undocumented security vulnerabilities. ???? the fixes stay "on hold" until the vulnerabilities get discovered by third parties.

there are teams tasked with collecting and grandfathering zero days, and managing their lifecycle.

 

that's why the "no Huawei" ruling was made.

hardware can come loaded with special chips containing backdoors (US equipment delivered to sensitive countries routinely got re-chipped at an NSA facility before shipping, this is not done anymore I believe because customers of interest wisened up), and all platforms will download drivers, updates, etc. from servers designated by their access provider's DNS, and authenticated by official OEM certificates, both of which can be corrupted.
by the way, that's how Stuxnet worked.

 

to be safe, a country has to control production of both software and hardware. it's only a part of what needs to be done, but it is a prerequisite.

 

 

as a related information, here are some crispy details about a (former) vendor of secured communication systems and "hardened security" phone devices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG

 

just make up your own mind and think about what lengths you would be willing to go to "catch the bad guys" or "protect your country" if you were personally in charge of running your contry's signal intelligence with a huge budget.

 

would you for example setup or acquire a major VPN and encryption service ?

or several?

technically brilliant, huge coverage, aggressively priced?

????

 

some people are in need of secure phones - that would be your core capability right? why not sell that service and make a few bucks for your budget too?

 

there are no limits!

 

and the few bits that came to light in the media are just tiny scratches on the surface of the whole thing.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by tgw

[elcaro]

I always found this an interesting study

https://www.popsci.com/how-many-minions-can-you-have-before-your-conspiracy-fails/

[tgw]

2 minutes ago, elcaro said:

I always found this an interesting study

https://www.popsci.com/how-many-minions-can-you-have-before-your-conspiracy-fails/

the advantage with technology, is that few people are needed.