On 11/14/2021 at 6:19 PM, kwilco said:

Back in the day, to get a top ten single, you would hold back supplies and release  them altogether in one week....that way you were assured of a top ten place. 

I suspect Tesla are doing the same by controlling delivery of their cars .

However I doubt if 5 years ago anyone would have thought they would even register on a list like that.

Tesla are not even the biggest producer of electric cars anymore.

No really???? OMG how come only you knew that?

On 11/16/2021 at 12:04 PM, seedy said:

This article urges caution and pause before an EV lock-in and calls on geographers and other scholars, professionals, and sustainability advocates to consider the multiscale environmental and social problems associated with EVs.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341138675_EVs_Are_Not_the_Answer_A_Mobility_Justice_Critique_of_Electric_Vehicle_Transitions

His critique in part is that EVs won't lead fast enough to decarbonization. Not that there's no difference between the environmental impact of EVs as opposed to ICEVs.

What is the environmental impact of battery production and disposal?

https://interestingengineering.com/clean-evs-and-dirty-lithium-mining-business

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

His critique in part is that EVs won't lead fast enough to decarbonization. Not that there's no difference between the environmental impact of EVs as opposed to ICEVs.

Because you have to burn fossil fuel to charge them?

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Because you have to burn fossil fuel to charge them?

Right now, there's a huge installed base of fossil fuel powered plants. But that is changing. In the past few years, worldwide investments in renewable power sources has been greater than investment in fossil fuel plants. And the cost of solar and wind keeps on declining. 

 

38 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Because you have to burn fossil fuel to charge them?

I'm inspired by your tag line "The intelligentsia loves science, empirical data? Not so much. " to remind you that the empirical data shows an increasing proportion of renewables in the mix, though not yet in Thailand, and indeed on this forum several people shifting or already shifted to generating their own power from solar for their evs.

 

I've never seen a conflict between pure and applied science and empirical evidence myself. A bit like the left and right parts of the brain, we need both to function properly. Indeed the scientific method requires the testing of hypotheses (usually derived from science) by falsifiable experiments (empirical evidence).

 

The paradigm shift (I knew you'd like that ???? ) is irreversible as empirical trends indicate, the precise details of how and when we get there remain to be mapped out in full detail with the help of scientific innovation.

 

Remember the first response to the invention of phones?  "why would I want one, no-one else has got one, there's no-one to talk to ".

2 hours ago, blackprince said:

I'm inspired by your tag line "The intelligentsia loves science, empirical data? Not so much. " to remind you that the empirical data shows an increasing proportion of renewables in the mix, though not yet in Thailand, and indeed on this forum several people shifting or already shifted to generating their own power from solar for their evs.

 

I've never seen a conflict between pure and applied science and empirical evidence myself. A bit like the left and right parts of the brain, we need both to function properly. Indeed the scientific method requires the testing of hypotheses (usually derived from science) by falsifiable experiments (empirical evidence).

 

The paradigm shift (I knew you'd like that ???? ) is irreversible as empirical trends indicate, the precise details of how and when we get there remain to be mapped out in full detail with the help of scientific innovation.

 

Remember the first response to the invention of phones?  "why would I want one, no-one else has got one, there's no-one to talk to ".

So that's a yes?

31 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So that's a yes?

I wasn't aware you'd asked a question.

 

Could I suggest you apply yourself to reading the title of this thread "Electric vehicles of all kinds".

 

Why not start a new thread along the lines of "Are EVS ever going to take off", then you could stop wasting your and everyone else's time  trolling this one.

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So that's a yes?

You know, your observation that it takes fossil fuels to power EV's bears a certain resemblance to  the argument that because the manufacture of renewables depends in some part on fossil fuel power, it makes no sense to manufacture them. Maybe if it were possible to travel into the future and bring back the power infrastructure as it exists 50 years from now, you might have much of a point. But since that's not possible, you don't.

And there's this:

Electric Vehicle Myths

 Even accounting for these electricity emissions, research shows that an EV is typically responsible for lower levels of greenhouse gases (GHGs) than an average new gasoline car. To the extent that more renewable energy sources like wind and solar are used to generate electricity, the total GHGs associated with EVs could be even lower. Learn more about electricity production in your area.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

https://www.iea.org/articles/key-electricity-trends-2020

 

Puts paid to all the "could be, in development, can be, should be " dreaming

This is how it is NOW. Publish updated figures when it becomes reality, not some Electric Jesus wish

Put some reality glasses on ...

EV's will only become widespread with heavy government backing - and only in the Western world.

And every dollar paid on subsidy will be one less dollar spent on health care, schools, roads, ...

The Second, Third, and Fourth world can not now, and will not in the near future, be able to afford them.

India - if current trends continue, will have a larger population than China.

And 84 million live in poverty, according to Wiki

Hardly a good source of EV sales

To say nothing of the lack of infrastructure to keep the power on 24/7 NOW, let alone if EV's are introduced.

But the fanatical Converts will keep right on saying "Look at me, I have solar panels on my house so it cost me nothing"

Good for you to be rich and overwhelmingly White, Entitled, Arrogant and Ignorant

5 minutes ago, seedy said:

https://www.iea.org/articles/key-electricity-trends-2020

 

Puts paid to all the "could be, in development, can be, should be " dreaming

This is how it is NOW. Publish updated figures when it becomes reality, not some Electric Jesus wish

1. NOW is just one point in a long term trend that.

2.The OECD is a group comprising over 100 countries. But...

3.  ...obviously developed countries lead the way, In the UK last year renewables averaged 40% I think, with peaks of 70%.

 

You and your denier friend are on the wrong side of history.

 

You're also evidently lacking in basic comprehension skills - this  thread is about "EVs of all kinds".

47 minutes ago, blackprince said:

1. NOW is just one point in a long term trend that.

2.The OECD is a group comprising over 100 countries. But...

3.  ...obviously developed countries lead the way, In the UK last year renewables averaged 40% I think, with peaks of 70%.

 

You and your denier friend are on the wrong side of history.

 

You're also evidently lacking in basic comprehension skills - this  thread is about "EVs of all kinds".

More "Coming Soon" ???

And I am not a denier - I am firmly against all the sugar coated pipe dreams people spout saying EV's are going to change the World.

We will see.

But enuf already with all this BS - the only 'World' that will change is that of rich white people.

As it Ever was.

 

16 minutes ago, seedy said:

More "Coming Soon" ???

And I am not a denier - I am firmly against all the sugar coated pipe dreams people spout saying EV's are going to change the World.

We will see.

But enuf already with all this BS - the only 'World' that will change is that of rich white people.

As it Ever was.

 

Wrong again.

Tesla’s China sales have grown to nearly half the size of the company’s U.S. sales

Elon Musk’s electric car company reported sales of $3.11 billion in China in the third quarter, or 48.5% of the $6.41 billion U.S. sales during that time, according to a filing Monday.

China’s share in Tesla’s overall sales rose to 22.6% in the third quarter, up from just under 20% a year ago.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/26/teslas-china-sales-have-grown-to-nearly-half-the-sales-in-the-us.html

12 hours ago, blackprince said:

I wasn't aware you'd asked a question.

 

Could I suggest you apply yourself to reading the title of this thread "Electric vehicles of all kinds".

 

Why not start a new thread along the lines of "Are EVS ever going to take off", then you could stop wasting your and everyone else's time  trolling this one.

 

When you responded to "Because you have to burn fossil fuel to charge them?" you were unaware that it was a question? I think that's hilarious. 

 

In any event, I was responding to someone's comment that implied EVs would not significantly reduce carbon emissions. 

 

 

 

 

I have seen the "Faithful" everywhere.

Preaching in the Media. Unable to stand anyone who has a different idea, who points out the downsides of their "Chosen" view.

First heard of them in the Inquisition - agree, or burn.

Seems much the same here.

Point out any flaw in their "Thinking" (or lack thereof, fanatics are not known for their tolerance), and the insults fly.

Fidiots

6 hours ago, seedy said:

Put some reality glasses on ...

EV's will only become widespread with heavy government backing - and only in the Western world.

And every dollar paid on subsidy will be one less dollar spent on health care, schools, roads, ...

The Second, Third, and Fourth world can not now, and will not in the near future, be able to afford them.

India - if current trends continue, will have a larger population than China.

And 84 million live in poverty, according to Wiki

Hardly a good source of EV sales

To say nothing of the lack of infrastructure to keep the power on 24/7 NOW, let alone if EV's are introduced.

But the fanatical Converts will keep right on saying "Look at me, I have solar panels on my house so it cost me nothing"

Good for you to be rich and overwhelmingly White, Entitled, Arrogant and Ignorant

You seem to be way out of date with your info. 

Chinese çomonies are already the world's leading manufacturers of electric vehicles. Both u dugenous and foreign companies... e.g. VW ...targets fir next year exceed 13,000,000. 

Quite apart from export, China has the biggest home vehicle market. 

Subsidies may well play a part in some markets, especially like Idia where urban pollution is killing 10s if not 100s of thousands per annum 

The electric car is no longer a rich man's preserve.

The motor industry rightly or wringly has thrown its weight hehind the all electric carand things like I frastructure are developing exponentially.

Almost every argument in your post is now out of date or invalid.

 

Just now, kwilco said:

You seem to be way out of date with your info. 

Chinese çomonies are already the world's leading manufacturers of electric vehicles. Both u dugenous and foreign companies... e.g. VW ...targets fir next year exceed 13,000,000. 

Quite apart from export, China has the biggest home vehicle market. 

Subsidies may well play a part in some markets, especially like Idia where urban pollution is killing 10s if not 100s of thousands per annum 

The electric car is no longer a rich man's preserve.

The motor industry rightly or wringly has thrown its weight hehind the all electric carand things like I frastructure are developing exponentially.

Almost every argument in your post is now out of date or invalid.

 

Suggesting every penny from electric subsidy is one out of subsidy fir the poor is a simplistic false dichotomy

16 hours ago, blackprince said:

Could I suggest you apply yourself to reading the title of this thread "Electric vehicles of all kinds".

 

Why not start a new thread along the lines of "Are EVS ever going to take off", then you could stop wasting your and everyone else's time  trolling this one.

Gets my vote for top post so far

 

???? 

On 11/19/2021 at 9:48 AM, seedy said:

I have seen the "Faithful" everywhere.

Preaching in the Media. Unable to stand anyone who has a different idea, who points out the downsides of their "Chosen" view.

First heard of them in the Inquisition - agree, or burn.

Seems much the same here.

Point out any flaw in their "Thinking" (or lack thereof, fanatics are not known for their tolerance), and the insults fly.

Fidiots

It's not so much a flaw in your thinking that has drawn criticism so much as flaws in your alleged facts.

Taking my Schwinn Streamliner to the next level ... ????

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

It's not so much a flaw in your thinking that has drawn criticism so much as flaws in your alleged facts.

Will any examples be forthcoming? 

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Taking my Schwinn Streamliner to the next level

Post your progress be interested to follow

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Taking my Schwinn Streamliner to the next level ... ????

 

Interesting project!

9 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Post your progress be interested to follow

Waiting on battery, should be here today or tomorrow.  Reviews of same kit, with users getting 50+ kph, which is way faster than I prefer to go on a bicycle.  I'll be very happy with 40 ish kph.

 

I start passing PoPo, and could be an issue, as technically, an unregistered motorcycle.

 

"Rolls-Royce believes its Spirit of Innovation plane could be the world's fastest all-electric aircraft.

The firm - whose aerospace headquarters are based in Derby - said the plane reached a top speed of 387.4 mph (623 km/h) during test runs at an experimental aircraft testing site."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-59359263

Came across this in Central today. 499,000 baht.

The marketing assistantstold me it's made in Japan and assembled in Thailand.

https://www.fomm.co.jp/company-en

https://fomm.co.th/en/

 

And for residents of Bkk and other areas prone to flooding, it can float!

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, blackprince said:

Came across this in Central today. 499,000 baht.

The marketing assistantstold me it's made in Japan and assembled in Thailand.

 

A picture of me and the misses after a test drive 3 years ago. Good value but not solidly constructed.