Before And Now.

[mokwit]

12 minutes ago, shackleton said:

No matter what they throw at you 

My best guess is the next thing they are going to throw at us is unmeetable for many visa requirements. First will be insurance, then likely they will raise the amount deposited to $100k for retirement visa - maybe indirectly by explaining the 800k/1 year option is for retired people who want to spend a year visiting all the interesting floating markets, if you are staying here 5 years you need to be on the 5 year type visa OA or the new one.

 

All new visa types have an insurance requirement and higher financial requirements. The writing is on the wall from the source of them.

[Expat68]

I believe there is change a foot and that is all down to social media, they will continue to try and suppress the people but in the end there will be change, the young ones will see to that. I will be long gone by then

[hotchilli]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:27 AM, BritManToo said:

I came in 2009, the governments don't make much difference to me.

I didn't vote back home, I can't vote here.

Who cares?

Same as me, arrived June 2009, apart from the first year doing a border run on my multi-entry visa before attaining an annual visa I've stayed here ever since, touring within Thailand for breaks.

I don't let the political issues bother me, I can't change anything so don't stress about it all.

Thailand is Thailand warts and all... 

I stay on the fringes, do what I want to do and live peacefully.

 

[Skeptic7]

No comparison. Infinitely better back in 1990s & 2000s. Been on a serious downhill slide the past decade or so. 

[LALes]

There's not a single place in the world that is better now than it was 15 years ago.

Too many people and too many morons.

[malibukid]

35 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

No comparison. Infinitely better back in 1990s & 2000s. Been on a serious downhill slide the past decade or so. 

can you expand on that?

[malibukid]

6 minutes ago, LALes said:

There's not a single place in the world that is better now than it was 15 years ago.

Too many people and too many morons.

i loved Malibu in the 50's-70's  all deleted up now.  too many kooks and dot coms now.  can't get a wave to yourself. very uptight.

Edited October 3, 2021 by malibukid

[Burma Bill]

14 hours ago, Felt 35 said:

things changed

Yes indeed and in my opinion for the better!! Living in Lanna for most of my retirement in Thailand, when "Mr T" came to power life and prosperity was transformed living up north. Businesses grew and employment increased. New infrastructure projects were initiated such as roads and mobile phone coverage (AIS - yes a Shinawatra company) across the north. For the first time in our small village among the mountains, access to the internet became a norm without having to drive to the nearest city with one's laptop to send emails. Agriculture and farming were brought into the 21st century. Out went ox drawn carts and ploughs and in came tractors, other types of machinery and irrigation schemes. Chiang Mai (now Thailand's second city), Chiang Rai and Phayao became boom cities with shopping malls and other leisure outlets but the moods changed after Prayut's coup and the demise of the Shinawatras, who incidentally are still admired by many Northern folk. Bangkok to many (including me) was just a name on a map where one changed flights from the north onto international ones. For us Brits, there was a British Consulate in Chiang Mai where all Embassy business, including passports, could be processed - no need to travel south like nowadays! Sadly now closed. It was the introduction of the current bureaucratic rules and financial regulations regarding visas, and all the hassle these created, that changed my opinion of living in Thailand and I now live happy and hassle free in a neighboring country.

[Almer]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:22 AM, possum1931 said:

That is a very good answer, I never looked at it that way.

My mother told me to vote for the good of the country, my father said vote for what is good for you, after failed attempts and following there advice I vote for none of the thieving cretins.

[herfiehandbag]

23 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really?

I live in that area. Before Covid we had (it seems) thousands of restaurants, bars, hotels, massage places, and and and in that area. Not all full but most of them full enough to make money. With Covid many of those places have closed. Even the McDonald corner Soi 5 is closed and Foodland Soi 5 has very few visitors.

Maybe the numbers were a little down pre Covid like from 100% to maybe 90%. But with Covid it's more like <10% of what it was. 

I haven't been to Bangkok since before the dreaded lurgy struck, but I can well believe that "lower Sukhumvit" has taken a kicking - is that McDonald's the little one that always had what appeared to be the four slappers of the apocalypse strutting their stuff outside?

 

Oh for the days of a few "warmers into the bank" down on Soi Zero before heading off for a night of revelry!

 

Soi Zero, Soi One, Nana of course, Clinton Plaza, Sukhumvit Square, Asok beer bars, Cowboy, Washington Square ( goodness they were rough), Soi 22; couldn't do it now, the spirit may be willing but the flesh (and bank balance) are definitely weak! I expect they have all gone anyway!

[jippytum]

1 have seen many changes since 1986 .Most of the new regulations seem to be to the determent of long stay retired expats who support the local economy .

On a political front  i have seen many changes in governments. Mainly unsavory people usually ex army seizing power in pursuit of personal wealth.

The majority of Thai people accept accept this because Thailand politicians  mirror the massive corruption at all levels in Thai society.

 

[rumak]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:11 AM, Gsxrnz said:

After observing world wide politics and bureaucracy for 60 years, it is my opinion that every single person that seeks or seizes power and authority is the last person you want to have that authority. Inevitably every world leader is a hybrid of the school bully and the teacher's pet.  We didn't trust them as adolescents, why would we trust them now?

 

I pity anybody who thinks government exists for the benefit of society in general, or cares one iota for any specific individual.

 

 

Darn......... I couldn't have said it any better .   And many  many  "likes".    

 

what i can't figure out is how come most of the likes believe the  "get a jab, stay home,  the world is coming to an end"   brainwashing that these hybrids are shoving down your throats 

[rumak]

On 10/2/2021 at 11:00 AM, Denim said:

Before was definitely better.  No question about it.   15 years ago I was only 49

i guess , looking back 15 years,  you probably didn't pay much attention to the Beatles classic question.     Ahhh,  the fate of so many shipwrecked sailors on Thailand's shores.

 

 

[strabel23]

You can imagine just before the coup in 2006 the economy and Gov. was a mess which is why the coup took place. Too much fighting between the parties and too much corruption with very little being accomplished. Fast forward to 2014 and the stock market had rocketed up with the rest of the world markets but reached a peak by the end of 2013. Since then positive things have happened with the booming tourism growth in regards to controlling the beach and road encroachments but the stock market has stalled. Not much in the way of economic growth or improvement in the standard of living for the poor to average citizen. Time is ripe for a change.                                                                                                                                                                                If compared prior to 2014 say in the 90's there is a major change in the way foreigners are perceived in respect of being a valuable asset. Back then most Thai people welcomed foreigners in every shape and form. Today a lot of Thais have forgotten just how much they have benefitted from the foreign currency that has been brought into the country and take foreigners for granted with many Thai's even thinking that they're better off without them it seems. Maybe when this pandemic comes to an end or acceptance and the foreign tourism numbers start to return to the time before it began and Thai return to their former jobs things will improve in attitudes towards foreigners at least for a while anyway.

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, rumak said:

what i can't figure out is how come most of the likes believe the  "get a jab, stay home,  the world is coming to an end"   brainwashing that these hybrids are shoving down your throats 

Most of the people thinking otherwise learned to keep quiet or were banned.

[rumak]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Most of the people thinking otherwise learned to keep quiet or were banned.

shhhhhh !  ( but i hear ya )   

 

 

[Seeall]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:27 AM, BritManToo said:

I came in 2009, the governments don't make much difference to me.

I didn't vote back home, I can't vote here.

Who cares?

agree.. blah blah balah.......   evern if the terleban topok over.. the fact is they love tourist cash and expat cash....   end of story...

[Thingamabob]

First visited Thailand in 1961, worked here 1983 to 1986, retired here in 1993. Way too much unwarrented moaning and carping from foreigners these days. 

[CharlieH]

Off topic removed.

 

 

[zzaa09]

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Same as me, arrived June 2009, apart from the first year doing a border run on my multi-entry visa before attaining an annual visa I've stayed here ever since, touring within Thailand for breaks.

I don't let the political issues bother me, I can't change anything so don't stress about it all.

Thailand is Thailand warts and all... 

I stay on the fringes, do what I want to do and live peacefully.

 

Some might take this wisdom to heart.

Cheers! ????

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

First visited Thailand in 1961, worked here 1983 to 1986, retired here in 1993. Way too much unwarrented moaning and carping from foreigners these days. 

Yeah. This universal angst and whinging has grown substantially over the last couple of generations - a contemporary sense of cultural entitlement that might baffle some observers. The inability to adjust and acclimate harmoniously behooves their underlying intolerance. 

I believe this type might find misery and comparative challenges regardless of where they lay their hat - especially, as all applies to "foreign" lands. And they wonder why they're still considered and looked upon a foreigners and outsiders. 

[malthebluff]

25 years here and seen many changes Good and bad. I dont blame the government anybody would jump at the chance to make money here It's the people who sit back and let it happen even today the same people pay money to get promotions in jobs and even at village level so it's always been a circle these with money make more and get more power the people cant see this and only see the 1000baht they get for a vote keeping the poor poor.

But yes in the last 7 years things have got much worse not they they were perfect before that.

With people going missing never to be found later charged with  drug offences  and police getting rich and buying even more promotions.

And after 25 years here I am looking at other countries to go and live as I dont think things will change here for 30 years and I wont be alive then. 

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, malibukid said:

can you expand on that?

Sure. Thailand was the epitome of Old Asian Charm and "Innocence". It didn't take itself overly seriously until Taksin in the early 2000s. Attitudes were better. Smiles were abundant and genuine. Jai Yen, Mai Pen Rai and Sabai Sabai were the national mottos. And mostly, there were WAY fewer tourists back then. A Westerner was a novelty and welcomed sight. It truly was Land of Smiles AND Amazing Thailand back then.

 

It's still pretty good, but nothing like back then. Glad I was here for it and still glad to be here...but back then it was Fan-<deleted>-Tastic! ????

Edited October 3, 2021 by Skeptic7

[Scouse123]

11 minutes ago, malthebluff said:

25 years here and seen many changes Good and bad. I dont blame the government anybody would jump at the chance to make money here It's the people who sit back and let it happen even today the same people pay money to get promotions in jobs and even at village level so it's always been a circle these with money make more and get more power the people cant see this and only see the 1000baht they get for a vote keeping the poor poor.

But yes in the last 7 years things have got much worse not they they were perfect before that.

With people going missing never to be found later charged with  drug offences  and police getting rich and buying even more promotions.

And after 25 years here I am looking at other countries to go and live as I dont think things will change here for 30 years and I wont be alive then. 

Me too,

 

25 years + , a bit more actually, more like 30 years with the coming and going before finally moving here full time.

 

I find the most that seems to have gone is the ' FUN ' factor. It is no longer the ' exotic adventure ' and let's be honest, anybody can get here now with a 500GBP flight!........ They couldn't back then.

 

There was also never the continuous changing of rules, regulations, visa changes and difficulties, opening and closing hours, Anti foreigner sentiment echoed by successive governments,  in fact, we heard little from the governments. All that changed and came about with Thaksin and his cronies such as Purachai coming to power and giant posters of him being erected everywhere. He wanted to be a poster boy or a movie star of Thai politics on the world stage.

 

The corruption was always there but never as obvious or as greedy and in your face as it is now.

 

I still like the region, I just base myself in Isaarn (and prefer it as I have aged) when its all operating normally without the Covid19 <deleted>, and my side trips to Vietnam and Cambodia which I can't wait for to start again.

 

My other half is 43 and constantly complains about the younger generation of Thais and insists they are even more poorly educated as they are not interested in learning in classrooms and teachers are not interested in teaching, but now have no respect or manners for parents and elders and have become decidedly entitled.

[Scouse123]

9 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Sure. Thailand was the epitome of Old Asian Charm and "Innocence". It didn't take itself overly seriously until Taksin in the early 2000s. Attitudes were better. Smiles were abundant and genuine. Jai Yen, Mai Pen Rai and Sabai Sabai were the national mottos. And mostly, there were WAY fewer tourists back then. A Westerner was a novelty and welcomed sight. It truly was Land of Smiles AND Amazing Thailand back then.

 

It's still pretty good, but nothing like back then. Glad I was here for it and still glad to be here...but back then it was Fan-<deleted>-Tastic! ????

Yes,

 

Absolutely right.

[Denim]

3 hours ago, rumak said:

i guess , looking back 15 years,  you probably didn't pay much attention to the Beatles classic question.     Ahhh,  the fate of so many shipwrecked sailors on Thailand's shores.

 

 

Don't think I could afford to rent a cottage on the Isle of Wight these days unless I sold a kidney. Not losing my hair though. Already lost that.

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, zzaa09 said:

Yeah. This universal angst and whinging has grown substantially over the last couple of generations - a contemporary sense of cultural entitlement that might baffle some observers. The inability to adjust and acclimate harmoniously behooves their underlying intolerance. 

I believe this type might find misery and comparative challenges regardless of where they lay their hat - especially, as all applies to "foreign" lands. And they wonder why they're still considered and looked upon a foreigners and outsiders. 

Maybe some, I'll agree. I find a lot that whinge are about the same things, such as prices, insurance, the THB, etc which means a lot came here underfunded and expected, foolishly, that everything would remind the same for the duration of their retirement years.

 

However, Thai attitudes to foreigners which have been drip fed anti foreign rhetoric over the past 20 years through the media by successive governments have turned them into a different Thai that inhabited these lands back then, or at least in many areas they are unrecognizable now as to how they used to be.

 

Maybe younger foreigners are more demanding and expect more and maybe the new younger Thais are less accommodating? 

[Zenwind]

Good OP questions.  And good forum member replies.  I retired here 15 years ago, but my perspective is limited since I live on the outer rim of greater Bangkok, am the only farang in the neighborhood, and I also tend to be a bit of a hermit.  Through the years, I have attended a routine monthly meet up with Western friends in the city, and I’ve seen a lot these folks eventually return to their home countries.  Only a few stayed. 

 

In 2006 my US dollar went a lot farther – which was a shock after the exchange rate changed – yet I live frugally and can get by.  As a war veteran, I was initially horrified by Thaksin’s “drug pusher” executions, where he had his cop triggermen gun down a couple of thousand citizens – extra-judicially; no due process – in a very short period of time.  (Welcome back to SE Asia!) 

 

I’ve seen the elections, coups, “elections”, coups, etc., etc., and I do not have any immediate hopes of the situation improving.  And there are extreme cultural/political divides here that are much like in the USA and elsewhere.  Some things never change. 

 

What leaves me most pessimistic about much of the world, including Thailand, is that there are few, or often no, traditions of the Rule of Law, with the principled constitutional restraint on any government’s power to violate the legitimate rights of every individual.

 

This lack of strict control over political power means that the worst villains will claw their way to the top via any means (see Hayek’s classic 1944 take on the “gangster states of Europe” in the first half of the 20^th century).  Even democracy can be “the tyranny of the majority” (Madison) if majority prejudice is not constrained by law.  (Ask Socrates about his experience with unrestrained democracy.) 

 

Still, I love living in Thailand – despite the heat – and intend to stay.  I don’t break the law, if I can help it, and I’m too poor to be the target of  corrupt cops or politicians.  It is a harbor of peace. 

 

The good things in the last 15 years?  Steady improvements in urban rail transit have revolutionized my life, connecting me like never before.  I don’t feel like an absolute outsider in my neighborhood, even though I’m the lone farang.  I have a fine Thai wife and am (the odd) part of her family.  And I dig the Buddhist vibe, although my dharma style is more secular than most. 

 

-Zenwind.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Zenwind

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Surely Expats should be entirely unconcerned with Politics here.

Safe Cheap Quality Relaxed Tropical Family Lifestyle is All.

 

Here we have an ancient primitive people, w/limited IQ, from the backward wild parts of south china.

Adopted the indigenous Khmer / Mon / Indian culture / architecture, when arriving here around 1200.

culturally unable to modernize or change (unlike advanced north east asia nations, with high IQ, and even they had modern change FORCED on them by the West). 

key test: invented nothing / explored no other countries 

limited change here has all been compelled from modern western influences.

 

every people get the govt they deserve.

here the major causal problems are Poor Education & Passive Corrupt Culture,.

allowing no real deep outside influence. 

 

Civilian Govt. was far worse than present Military Govt. Every MP self- serving & corrupt.

Country was Chaotic/Divided/Paralyzed. Nobody talks about that, only how bad the current govt is.

 

Well Let’s Stop Complaining. We are Not Wanted only Tolerated.

THIS is as Good as it Gets. Accept It or Go. And many have left for other ASEAN places……

Too Late for some of us. Malaysia would have been my “ hindsight” choice.

[zzaa09]

17 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Surely Expats should be entirely unconcerned with Politics here.

Safe Cheap Quality Relaxed Tropical Family Lifestyle is All.

 

Here we have an ancient primitive people, w/limited IQ, from the backward wild parts of south china.

Adopted the indigenous Khmer / Mon / Indian culture / architecture, when arriving here around 1200.

culturally unable to modernize or change (unlike advanced north east asia nations, with high IQ, and even they had modern change FORCED on them by the West). 

key test: invented nothing / explored no other countries 

limited change here has all been compelled from modern western influences.

 

every people get the govt they deserve.

here the major causal problems are Poor Education & Passive Corrupt Culture,.

allowing no real deep outside influence. 

 

Civilian Govt. was far worse than present Military Govt. Every MP self- serving & corrupt.

Country was Chaotic/Divided/Paralyzed. Nobody talks about that, only how bad the current govt is.

 

Well Let’s Stop Complaining. We are Not Wanted only Tolerated.

THIS is as Good as it Gets. Accept It or Go. And many have left for other ASEAN places……

Too Late for some of us. Malaysia would have been my “ hindsight” choice.

I believe a good old fashioned civilising mission is in order. 

Barbarous uncouth tribal Oriental despotic cultures need to know their place.