Does a LT Girlfriend have property rights when we split - it's time

[RichardColeman]

7 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

but she lives unregistered in my condo in Bangkok

I really hope the people in the condos above have good insurance !

[RafPinto]

Tell her that the relationship is not working anymore and you want to terminate it.

Give her some time to find a new place but make sure she is actively searching if not, she will never leave.

 

Tell her that "YOUR" apartment will be rented to another foreigner and that he will move in, in a few weeks time.

 

Take care of the child and do not go for her threats.

They come up with all sort of stories.

 

My ex always invented that all her friends in "germany 555" get at least 50,000Baht pocket money each month.

 

Told her: on your bike and register with Thaifriendly or similar and condition is:

1. German

2. Rich

3. good looking and not older than 40

 

I bet she is still searching.

[blackcab]

10 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

Question: How can one reasonably hide knives from the chef?

 

Before you give her the bad news, don't forget to secure all of your important documents, outside of the condo if you can.

 

Passport, bank cards, bank books, pension documents, title deeds, housebooks, spare property access cards and keys, vehicle registration books and spare keys, driving licenses, any documents from your home country and anything else that would be difficult to replace easily.

[JoeBloe]

9 hours ago, LarrySR said:

Ever watch a Thai Soap Opera TV show?

They yell and scream allot, all sorts of drama, get violent including death threats, try to get you arrested, start all kinds of nasty rumors about how you beat them, are on drugs, never took care of her and fondled the child, steal everything they can, vandalize the place, change your passwords, smash your phone, steal your passport, take the credit cards, drain the bank account and maybe slit their wrists with a dull knife or jumps off the balcony.(you pushed her of course)

Big loss of face, servicing a farang for 10 years and leave with nothing.... How stupid! Her friends and family will persuade her to take the apartment, car, bank, TAKE EVERYTHING!!

 

Well, thats going to happen to you.

 

 

 

 

Maybe ... that depends how much anger has rotted her soul over the past couple of years

[Doctor Tom]

I have two LT g/fs, good luck on them trying to get access to my stuff. 

[olfu]

Tough situation.

Women have different mental setup so you cannot win.

Cut your losses and move out. I did this multiple times.

She is not happy? Too bad.

[Smoothsailing1]

What did you tell her already? Does she know that she is on notice to lose her support? If not, she may react by behaving better when you let her know you are thinking of ending the relationship.

 

Is there anyone else that you can involve to help, like her mother, aunt, sister?

 

Is there somewhere cheaper that she can go and live OK on whatever you are prepared to give her?

 

I hope she doesn't go for you with a knife. Please be careful. Good luck.

[lkn]

 

15 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

My deal with her explicitly excluded marriage, it was that I would provide for everything incl. the boy's education and her only job was to be a full-time mother and a faithful partner. She did a pretty good job on the mother front and since she is a great cook, they both eat well. I have been faithful and kept everyone under my roof and given them a cosmopolitan lifestyle when we are outside Thailand.

You may think you gave her everything, but you didn’t give her financial freedom, steered her toward an education for when she had to provide for herself, or created a retirement fund for when she was done working for you as a housewife — she is now 10 years older, her ability to find a new provider has decreased.

 

In another comment you mention how you didn’t give her a stipend, and I think many guys take pride in that, because it shows that she is not just “paid company”, but if you are living with someone who doesn’t have their own job, *do* give them a stipend, and don’t pay all their expenses.

 

This is so much better in so many ways. She will feel better by not having to go to you all the time for money/things, you will feel better for not having to judge whether she really need/want those 10,000 baht ear rings or just want to show off, and there’s a good chance she will start to care a lot more about “value for money” and probably she no longer need to upgrade to the latest iPhone.

 

This is of course too late in your situation, I am just putting it out there for others to consider.

 

Basically, if you do not give them a stipend, but pay for their stuff, it is in their interest to extract as much value from you as possible, while the relationship lasts.

 

But give them cash following a somewhat predictable pattern, and tell them to buy their own stuff, and it is now in their best interest to be frugal. Even when you travel, give them whatever you think is reasonable to use on the trip, and if they see fancy clothes or other desirable items, let them buy it with their own money. Not saying you can’t also buy them stuff on the trip, but they should have their own money as well.

 

*You* conditioned your girl to do the first (extract as much value from you as possible), and now you are complaining.

 

No offense meant, you do seem like a nice and emphatic guy. I am exaggerating for effect ????

Edited October 17, 2021 by lkn

[soi3eddie]

19 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

This is not because I don't care for her or the boy, but I need to get out before it gets ugly.

Unfortunately, if you think that things have been bad already then the real difficulty will be getting her out. Forget the financial side of it, just getting her to move could be a major issue and hassle. Be prepared to rent her a place elsewhere to start and definitely change all locks and remove her access to your condo once she has finally gone. Even when she has gone that may not be the end of any drama. Best of luck.  

 

[hellohello123]

19 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

Thanks folks.

It is as I had expected from a legal standpoint, up to my own internal model of the world what I am willing to offer.

Some more of the story.

Her father is dead (I paid a big lump of his funeral) and she is estranged from her family. As far as I can ascertain, this is between her and her mother.  Oldest daughters v. mothers is a thing in all cultures.

During my dealings with the family I have managed to secure the remaining part of the family farm for my GF plus some another small piece of land etc.. Every time the family needed money and I was expected to contribute, I traded a chanot for it, rather than straight charity. I offered to pay a large wad the other day to zero the family debt for the other part of the farm, but they apparently already agreed to sell it. Thai rural families are easy pray for loan sharks and banks. I gain no benefit for this, but I do not doubt my GF (and subsequently her son) would have ended with nothing without my intervention, so my contribution insured some of her farm stayed in family (her) hands. From my point of view, this is me giving her money.

My deal with her explicitly excluded marriage, it was that I would provide for everything incl. the boy's education and her only job was to be a full-time mother and a faithful partner. She did a pretty good job on the mother front and since she is a great cook, they both eat well. I have been faithful and kept everyone under my roof and given them a cosmopolitan lifestyle when we are outside Thailand.

One issue now appears to be she feels inferior to other Thai women because she doesn't have an expensive watch, lots of jewellery, a big bank balance and so on. She has developed an inferiority complex versus what she perceives other Thai woman receive from their farang partners. She has built up a massive "princess entitlement" position and she's angry about it. This is quite a new development.

I could throw gifts at her, but my experience is that she treats ear rings that cost 20 THB the same as those that cost 10,000 THB. A mistake I am not willing to make again so she can play princess around other women for a while.

There you go, a bit of pointless rambling about some of what is driving me out of my own home.  There are far deeper issues though, and there aren't solutions for those,. ????

Question: How can one reasonably hide knives from the chef?
 

Have you realised that all you talk about is money money money.   Sounds like you have been seen as the proverbial walking atm.

 

And yet, even when you are contemplating a breakup  you're still wanting to be an atm.

[JoeBloe]

42 minutes ago, hellohello123 said:

Have you realised that all you talk about is money money money.   Sounds like you have been seen as the proverbial walking atm.

 

And yet, even when you are contemplating a breakup  you're still wanting to be an atm.

I would be happy to detail my economic position to you, but since you think it's all about money and that's unlikely to change, I won't. That's a telling characteristic for a lot of people.

Here's a reality check:

All partnership breakups amount to money. The relationships themselves most often aren't based on that. Thailand is apparently a bit of a deviant example though, but in general this is true.

An ATM?  Until quite recently (and In fact during her "rational" moments, that is probably still the case), anyone suggesting that to my GF would have ended on the receiving end of some vitriol.

EVERY couple where there is one breadwinner and one family caretaker has one party who is the "ATM". This is not unique to Thailand, it is how our species evolved.

The reason that divorce settlements are invariably about money, is because one party (almost invariably the female) sacrifices x years for the benefit of the family rather than working at something else. It IS nothing more than compensation and it is valued in $. I didn't invent the concept, it is what it is.

I'll be happy to pay her and walk away without a knife in my throat.

This thread started with a question about legal status (answered). It is always wise to know the basic law before entering into a negotiation or contract.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by JoeBloe

[hellohello123]

2 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

I would be happy to detail my economic position to you, but since you think it's all about money and that's unlikely to change, I won't. That's a telling characteristic for a lot of people.
 

i dont think your economic position is too relevant unless you are bill gates or you literally have $5 to your name

 

  

5 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

All partnership breakups amount to money.

maybe your ones, thats a pretty bold statement to make

 

  

5 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

An ATM?  Until quite recently (and In fact during her "rational" moments, that is probably still the case), anyone suggesting that to my GF would have ended on the receiving end of some vitriol.
 

ok, because she loses face or she doesnt like to hear the truth?

 

  

5 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

EVERY couple where there is one breadwinner and one family caretaker has one party who is the "ATM". This is not unique to Thailand, it is how our species evolved.

definitely there is some truth to that, and it still applies today to some

 

 

  

5 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

I'll be happy to pay her and walk away without a knife in my throat.

your safety and health is number one priority

 

  

5 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

The reason that divorce settlements are invariably about money, is because one party (almost invariably the female) sacrifices x years for the benefit of the family rather than working at something else. It IS nothing more than compensation and it is valued in $. I didn't invent the concept, it is what it is.
 

whatever you decide, good luck but I would like to remind you that (you may disagree with me) but you owe her nothing, just because shes had a free ride or used to an ATM, doesnt mean you have to continue it once you move on.  Highly unlikely but she should be appreciative of what you have provided her. 

[brianthainess]

Sorry not read all posts;   Has she ever worked? i mean EVER ? sounds like she owes you more than you owe her. 

[JoeBloe]

20 minutes ago, hellohello123 said:

 

34 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

An ATM?  Until quite recently (and In fact during her "rational" moments, that is probably still the case), anyone suggesting that to my GF would have ended on the receiving end of some vitriol.
 

ok, because she loses face or she doesnt like to hear the truth?

You'd need to ask her.

[hotchilli]

On 10/17/2021 at 6:08 AM, JoeBloe said:

Anyway, when the <deleted> hits the fan, it will all devolve into a "x time spent = $y" event. I just need to know if I'll need to mount a defence or just make an offer. I'm willing to make an reasonable offer to keep her going while she arranges a new mark.

If she's been reasonable to you over the 10 years then she deserves something when you as it seems want to split.

She has to have somewhere to live, that costs money, she has a son, that also costs money.

Offer her a reasonable severance payment but make it clear it's a once and for all payment.

After that she has to find employment or another sponsor.

[nobodysfriend]

When I was young and Christmas was coming , all I got from my father was a bill of what he spend in the last year for me . That was my Christmas present .

Tell her that nothing is forever in this world , tell her that you paid your share , leave her something and move on ...

Better an end with pain , as pain without end ...

[gk10012001]

You could try being rationale, see if there is some training or familiarity that would get her into some job somewhere and some income to live on, but that is very unlikely to work for her.  The odds are she will have to find another person to take her in.  Otherwise who knows.  Grandma look after the child while she tries to find work?  Sounds like you did your part for many years.  That's a good mate.  If you do come up with some cash deal to give her, I would then slip out of sight really quick to avoid any physical or police complaint or conflict.  Do you own or do you rent the condo? If renting, when is the lease up?  Maybe plan on moving out and severing the relationship around that time.   It can be difficult getting her to leave.  Just imagine her packing up everything.... You should consider self protection and at some point changing the locks if you can while she is away.

[JoeBloe]

1 minute ago, nobodysfriend said:

When I was young and Christmas was coming , all I got from my father was a bill of what he spend in the last year for me . That was my Christmas present .

Tell her that nothing is forever in this world , tell her that you paid your share , leave her something and move on ...

Better an end with pain , as pain without end ...

"When I were a lad, we lived in shoebox in middle of road"

But seriously, I grew up a few hundred yards from the pit head and while I have never had the misfortune of getting pogged on bread and dripping, it was a thing only a generation before me.

I'll get it sorted. In the meantime I'll try and enjoy the "normal" times and survive the rest!

[Rampant Rabbit]

19 hours ago, LarrySR said:

Ever watch a Thai Soap Opera TV show?

They yell and scream allot, all sorts of drama, get violent including death threats, try to get you arrested, start all kinds of nasty rumors about how you beat them, are on drugs, never took care of her and fondled the child, steal everything they can, vandalize the place, change your passwords, smash your phone, steal your passport, take the credit cards, drain the bank account and maybe slit their wrists with a dull knife or jumps off the balcony.(you pushed her of course)

Big loss of face, servicing a farang for 10 years and leave with nothing.... How stupid! Her friends and family will persuade her to take the apartment, car, bank, TAKE EVERYTHING!!

 

Well, thats going to happen to you.

 

 

 

 

cuz  theyre  all the same right

[JoeBloe]

1 minute ago, gk10012001 said:

You could try being rationale, see if there is some training or familiarity that would get her into some job somewhere and some income to live on, but that is very unlikely to work for her.  The odds are she will have to find another person to take her in.  Otherwise who knows.  Grandma look after the child while she tries to find work?  Sounds like you did your part for many years.  That's a good mate.  If you do come up with some cash deal to give her, I would then slip out of sight really quick to avoid any physical or police complaint or conflict.  Do you own or do you rent the condo? If renting, when is the lease up?  Maybe plan on moving out and severing the relationship around that time.   It can be difficult getting her to leave.  Just imagine her packing up everything.... You should consider self protection and at some point changing the locks if you can while she is away.

Working is unlikely to happen for several reasons, so a new patron it will be.

The boy will soon be of legal age, he's not an issue.

I own >1 condos in Thailand, we live in one of them. In these bizarre Covid19 times, unloading them quickly and/or without significant loss is unlikely so me disappearing completely out of Thailand is somewhat difficult.

I fully expect a police complaint and a long sad story and worse, as she threatens with that and more whenever she is in a rage. Her rages make Thai TV drama look like a well behaved kindergarten. If these rages weren't so regular I wouldn't be planning to leave :(

[Rampant Rabbit]

5 hours ago, lkn said:

her ability to find a new provider has decreased.

He r problem, how  about she provides for herself

[JoeBloe]

12 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

You could try being rationale (sic)

Have you ever tried to be rational with an angry woman?

Venus & Mars and all that jazz ...

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 minute ago, JoeBloe said:

Working is unlikely to happen for several reasons, so a new patron it will be.

The boy will soon be of legal age, he's not an issue.

I own >1 condos in Thailand, we live in one of them. In these bizarre Covid19 times, unloading them quickly and/or without significant loss is unlikely so me disappearing completely out of Thailand is somewhat difficult.

I fully expect a police complaint and a long sad story and worse, as she threatens with that and more whenever she is in a rage. Her rages make Thai TV drama look like a well behaved kindergarten. If these rages weren't so regular I wouldn't be planning to leave ????

Jesus  Christ change the locks change the phone and dump the pair  of them, if thats how she is, staying with anyone like that you must be nuts, check  into a hotel for a month, you owe her  nothing, shes  had 10  years of freeloading.

[gk10012001]

Just now, JoeBloe said:

Working is unlikely to happen for several reasons, so a new patron it will be.

The boy will soon be of legal age, he's not an issue.

I own >1 condos in Thailand, we live in one of them. In these bizarre Covid19 times, unloading them quickly and/or without significant loss is unlikely so me disappearing completely out of Thailand is somewhat difficult.

I fully expect a police complaint and a long sad story and worse, as she threatens with that and more whenever she is in a rage. Her rages make Thai TV drama look like a well behaved kindergarten. If these rages weren't so regular I wouldn't be planning to leave ????

you understand the lay of the land.  Sadly complaints of abuse and you getting dragged off to the police station and out of your own condo are not unheard of. I hate to say that as I always loved Thailand since my first visit in 2004 and well over a dozen visits and fully planning on 6 months a year of retirement there soon.  But there are forces at work over there sometimes.  Even if the girl is basically good, and never would do anything nefarious on her own, sometimes  it does not take much for somebody to put a gun to her head, or put a gun to her family, and coerce them to act.  I don't want to cast aspersions on character, but some police collusion has been noted at times also.  The courts just rarely favor a foreigner over there.   And sadly, sometimes need overcomes character. 

 

  If you are the condo owner, I do suggest that at some point you are prepared to change the keys or locks.  As others have posted, you will not have any normal Palimony type of responsibility, so that is a good thing.  Separation should be a one and done.  Maybe even draw up a piece of paper contract or at least make sure any money you give her is well documented so there is no doubt you made good effort to help her out when you send her on her way.  Just guessing on that one

[gk10012001]

6 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

Have you ever tried to be rational with an angry woman?

Venus & Mars and all that jazz ...

I used to date in Los Angeles, California, the air head capital.  As an engineer and I hope a usually fairly reasoning person, how I got out of there with all my hair and mostly not grey and made it to 64 with my monies and able to retire, is worthy of a movie!

[JoeBloe]

4 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Jesus  Christ change the locks change the phone and dump the pair  of them, if thats how she is, staying with anyone like that you must be nuts, check  into a hotel for a month, you owe her  nothing, shes  had 10  years of freeloading.

In an early post I pointed out that there is a clinical issue. Re-read that one.

Personally, until recently, I've never considered her a freeloader. Not contributing $ to a relationship is not the same as not contributing anything to a relationship.

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 minute ago, JoeBloe said:

In an early post I pointed out that there is a clinical issue. Re-read that one.

Personally, until recently, I've never considered her a freeloader. Not contributing $ to a relationship is not the same as not contributing anything to a relationship.

Sounds  like  all she contributes is  grief

[JoeBloe]

1 minute ago, gk10012001 said:

I used to date in Los Angeles, California, the air head capital.  As an engineer and I hope a usually fairly reasoning person, how I got out of there with all my hair and mostly not grey and made it to 64 with my monies and able to retire, is worthy of a movie!

Indeed. I lived in CA for a while. I know the feeling!

We used to say our secretary was a General in the "Space Cadets" (referring the space between her ears, not the newly formed Space Force).

[JoeBloe]

Just now, Rampant Rabbit said:

Sounds  like  all she contributes is  grief

Before it was trivial, now it's overwhelming in volume and intensity.

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 10/17/2021 at 6:49 AM, JoeBloe said:

Pent up psychological trauma from long before I was in the frame that has consumed her soul and mind from the inside. They all come with baggage.

its  HER  baggage NOT  yours  though