Agent has done a runner

[Henryford]

Who pays 6 or 12 months rent in advance, in Thailand. That was the biggest mistake. Just asking for someone to take it and run. Under English law you might be able to argue the agent was acting on behalf of the owner but here just not worth the cost of taking it through the courts. What was the loss @50,000 baht?

Edited October 23, 2021 by Henryford

[Chad3000]

One of the reasons I prefer apartments over condos is deposits.

 

I would never give a condo owner more than three months. Two months rent,one month security. In fact I'd rather give them 10k as a cleaning fee and be done with it.

 

You'll never see her or your money.

 

Just  live there until the deposit runs out.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Chad3000

[steven100]

5 minutes ago, Henryford said:

What was the loss @50,000 baht?

he said it was 20k ... lol   ....  hardly worth the hassle, move on and learn.

[Chad3000]

17 hours ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

Juristic said she was legit

If she was sanctioned then there's liability.

 

Aren't agents not supposed to operate in the buildings or directly with management?? Illegal?

[hotchilli]

18 hours ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

As far as I’m concerned I have a contract, and proof of payment of deposit and rent each month. But if the owner says I have to leave, do I have a legal

Leg to stand on?

Yes, you've paid and done nothing wrong.

The Chinese owner has a problem with the agent they used.

You do not have a problem with the agent.

Sit tight, the owner hired a local agent to collect the rent/deposits etc and forward them to China.

You have honured your contract and are legally entitled to stay there for the duration.

If the owner wants you out then he must compensate you for the breach in contract.

 

 

[Scott Tracy]

17 hours ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

Yes, but the issue there is that the owner is in China and there is really no way of me getting anything out of him unless he is feeling generous. 

He might as well just write it off and turf me out, as he can’t do anything to the agent from there 

I would suggest that if the owner is in China, they would have an issue in trying to kick you out. What would they do, send the boys round? They have lawyers involved, eviction orders? What would happen if you ignored any written correspondence from the owner? Wait until the courts get involved?

[Scott Tracy]

I'm also wondering, is the owner of the building a Chinese national? How does that work with the 51/49 rule? 

 

This sounds like a legal minefield. Time to get a Thai lawyer involved, and yes, the theft/extortion needs to be reported to the Police. Failure to do so by all those affected could play against the claimants. In any country, theft is a crime. Extortion is a crime. 

In my view, the owner contracted someone to act as their agent. Their agent stole their money. It is their problem. But this is why lawyers need to get involved.

[stupidfarang]

It may be a good idea to safe guard yourself and get as many people as you can from the appartments and file a joint complaint with the police, the reason is to show what has happen and there is an official record and by doing a group action/complaint to the police you are not putting your head on the block by yourself. As for compensation from the person who ran off with your money forget about it. As other people have said stay until the deposit has been paid for by not paying rent but do save the monthly rent in an account so you have it if required. Once the deposit has been recovered by staying in the condo then leave. Make sure you also leave the condo in good order and clean, plus take photos before you leave and if you have someone to give the keys back to then get them to check the appartment and make a video of the inspection. 

[hotchilli]

10 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

I'm also wondering, is the owner of the building a Chinese national? How does that work with the 51/49 rule? 

 

This sounds like a legal minefield. Time to get a Thai lawyer involved, and yes, the theft/extortion needs to be reported to the Police. Failure to do so by all those affected could play against the claimants. In any country, theft is a crime. Extortion is a crime. 

In my view, the owner contracted someone to act as their agent. Their agent stole their money. It is their problem. But this is why lawyers need to get involved.

As a tenant the deal between the owner and the agent is not your problem.

As the agent has done a runner... make a report to the police so that it is in writing, with evidence that you have made the required payments.

The ball is in the owners court as to what they are going to do next... 

kicking you out serves no purpose, they will have to honour your contract.

They will have to find a lawyer [if they wish] to find the agent and retrieve lost finances.

And find a way for the sitting tenants to pay their rents utilising a trusted agent..

 

 

 

[Mansell]

Had a friend in Phuket who had an agent handling his visa concerns, and a few other farang. One day she just disappeared with everyone’s passports. Most thought she had gambling issues. My friend was lucky as he had two passports from other countries, but lapsed. He got a temporary passport and decided to go to Malaysia to sort some things out….but his visa had lapsed and at the border he was banned from returning for one year. Not exactly an on top of things guy.
Earlier this year he got a sailboat and was sailing from California to Ecuador, but his maintenance left a lot to be desired etc. Way down the Mexican coast hit some bad weather and the trimaran started coming apart and he had to send an SOS, five hours later he was picked up by a ship heading back to California…..last saw his boat drifting off into the night.

A lot of lessons to be learned from these things.

[Bangkok Barry]

18 hours ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

Yes, but the issue there is that the owner is in China and there is really no way of me getting anything out of him unless he is feeling generous. 

He might as well just write it off and turf me out, as he can’t do anything to the agent from there 
 

 

If the owner is in China and, as you suggest might happen, takes no responsibility for the agent he employed, then how will he force you and other tenants to vacate? Even knowing who the missing agent is via her ID card isn't going to get the money back, and it is the owner she cheated, not you, by not passing on the rent. It is her, not you, the owner should be going after. His dispute with her is, surely, nothing to do with you. You have done nothing wrong, and you and others have paid rent and presumably have receipts.

[topt]

I want to know why the morning news mail has this subject titled -

 

"My visa agent has done a runner"

 

Click bait much................

[RubbaJohnny]

Walk away life is too short is my two cents worth, It took me years in a legal wrangle, not worth the hassle, write it off as an expensive lesson, 

[Henryford]

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

he said it was 20k ... lol   ....  hardly worth the hassle, move on and learn.

20k for 5/6 months !! Must be a hiso place.

[JBChiangRai]

It boils down to two things, the wording of the contract and proof the agent was acting as an approved agent of the owner.

 

First step is to get the owner to admit the agent legitimately represented the owner.

 

If the owner said the agent was not acting for him as his agent, then you have no claim on the owner and you shouldn’t be in his property.

 

If the owner admits the agent acted for him, then the owner is liable for anything the agent signed up to. The owner would have to produce something signed by the owner explaining the limits of the agents authority, without that document and the owner admitting the agent was his agent, the owner is liable for anything the agent has done.

[steven100]

10 minutes ago, Henryford said:

20k for 5/6 months !! Must be a hiso place.

that's what I was thinking also, that included his deposit i believe.  5 star.

[bbko]

People here saying walk away from the 20k loss, I say at the minimum file a joint police report to get your name on the record.

[Salerno]

27 minutes ago, Henryford said:

20k for 5/6 months !! Must be a hiso place.

 

14 minutes ago, steven100 said:

that's what I was thinking also, that included his deposit i believe.  5 star.

Perhaps reread the thread before casting aspersions. All you've done so far is highlight your lack of comprehension and nasty streak.

[steven100]

5 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Perhaps reread the thread before casting aspersions. All you've done so far is highlight your lack of comprehension and nasty streak.

Perhaps mind your own business.  Lol

[DefaultName]

You are morally in the right and should be able to stay at least until the money you have paid runs out.  Morally.  In practice, you're boned, if the owner wants you out, you're out.  The BIB will take his side, or at least won't take yours.

 

I'd advise to be proactive and contact him, show the receipts and explain that you want to stay and need to know who you should be paying in future.

 

 

I had similar last year, agent getting paid in advance but not passing it on.  In my case the owner was local and the agent hadn't yet done a runner, they both came to my condo and explained the situation.  I gently explained that I had paid for 2 years, had a written contract, still had 7 months to go, and that I considered that a deal and didn't want to pay it again.  The owner was surprisingly OK, but said that, after then, I'd be paying her directly.  That I'd been keeping it nice and had even made a couple of improvements out of my own pocket may have helped.  Worked for me anyway!  

 

As it happened, this galvanised me to look around and buy.  I moved out with 4 month's rent still paid, just wrote that off.  Soon after, the agent finally did the expected runner.  Turns out he'd been doing it for years; taking rent up front from those who would pay that way, putting it in his pocket, and paying the owners out of current rents.  When Covid hit, tourists & expats stopped coming, and condos were empty.   The money flow stopped and the whole house of cards fell down.  In his defence, he sold absolutely everything, even gave his house back to the bank, to try and straighten this, but Covid just kept customers away and that was that.

[4MyEgo]

22 hours ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

I didn’t pay 6 months up front, but my deposit has gone and the rent has not been going to the owner. Some people have been asked to leave due to non Paying of rent.

ive been told by an agent I need to go and file a police report, but they won’t do anything as the agreement is between me and the property manager. 

I take deposit to mean some form of bond/security, perhaps an amount equal to 4 weeks rent ?

 

22 hours ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

As far as I’m concerned I have a contract, and proof of payment of deposit and rent each month. But if the owner says I have to leave, do I have a legal

Leg to stand on? 

If you signed a lease which is a contract and moved into the property, paid your deposit and have paid rent.

 

Your fine, providing that you can prove you have been making the rental payments, whether by receipt of transfer to the property managers account.

 

If your term on the lease hasn't expired, e.g. 6 months, 12 months then you cannot be asked to leave as you have paid your rent. The owner would have a contract between the agent to collect the rent so the problem lay there with the agent, not you, as you have fulfilled the part of the terms of the lease/contract, e.g. pay rent on time to the agent.

 

When your lease term is up, the owner can then ask you to leave, but not beforehand as you haven't breached any terms of the lease and have paid your rent on time.

 

Dig in, and if need be, get a lawyer, but don't think you will need one and if the owner plays hard ball, stop paying rent equal to the deposit when you leave so you are squared up, not your fault that the owners agent took off with your deposit, so that is one way of squaring it up, and wouldn't be the 1st time it's happened.

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

legally “property manager” = owner agent = owner.

agent rental receipts = contractual payment.

unclear why you are moving ? letters from owner  ? 

notify owner you are staying there until your owed money / deposit worked off and money available for owner direct payment monthly in arrears. owner has changed contract unilaterally so can you.

 

[FridgeMagnet1]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

that's what I was thinking also, that included his deposit i believe.  5 star.

No Steven. The deposit was 20K. 

[FridgeMagnet1]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

20k for 5/6 months !! Must be a hiso place.

No Henry. It was 20K deposit 

[Percy P]

On 10/22/2021 at 2:23 PM, Gsxrnz said:

Ok, well done on getting the ID card details.  Many don't know the significance of that information.  I guess you could make a case with the police but it's doubtful they'll take it far on its own

 

The media exposure may make them stop scratching and get off their backsides.

If you have a mobile with a camera ,take a photo of their  ID card.

[sawadee1947]

On 10/22/2021 at 9:19 AM, FridgeMagnet1 said:

lots of people in my building

Take one lawyer all together makes it more powerful and effective. The sooner the better ????

[vinci]

you blame owner since agent is gone, owner blame agent since they are gone, you won't get a penny back, they will just blame it on the scam, owner will avoid giving your money back doesn't matter if you report to authority, Thai only know how to take money but they don't understand the concept of giving it back.

[smutcakes]

How can you have a contract with someone who is not the property owner? They have no condo to lease out..... everyone sounds as naive as hell on all sides other than the one who did a runner.

[Freddy42OZ]

On 10/22/2021 at 3:18 PM, HappyExpat57 said:

I would stay very very quiet. I have a friend who was in the exact same situation. He went rent free for more than two years, just paying utilities. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . .

I didn't hear from my landlady for 10 years.  When I finally heard something it was the bank saying she hadn't paid her mortgage and they were seizing the condo. 

Perhaps I could have lived rent from for a few years, but that would have been illegal and immoral. 

 

[smutcakes]

4 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

legally “property manager” = owner agent = owner.

agent rental receipts = contractual payment.

unclear why you are moving ? letters from owner  ? 

notify owner you are staying there until your owed money / deposit worked off and money available for owner direct payment monthly in arrears. owner has changed contract unilaterally so can you.

 

There is no contract as the contract is with the manager who does not own the property, the contract is useless- they have been fleeced by a clever agent. There is no contractual obligation at all with the actual owner- you are trespassing on their property.