Elderly expats dazed and confused over insurance, ‘retirement visas’ and COVID

[4MyEgo]

49 minutes ago, John Drake said:

You can have insurance and still not be insured. That is precisely what happens to someone who pays a sky high premium for health insurance that contains so many required exclusions and deductibles as to make it almost worthless. And that doesn't solve any problem for hospitals either. If someone comes in for treatment of a condition excluded by the insurance policy, then the situation is exactly the same as it was before this insurance mandate. The only difference is that the money someone might have had to pay down their hospital bill was directed to an insurance company, instead, for worthless insurance. The patient and the hospital both lose, while the insurance company just rakes in more cash.

Your blowing it totally out of proportion.

 

Insurance is required to minimise the risk, suffice to say, they want you to have the insurance to minimise the risk, what happens after that is up to you and your insurer.

 

I totally disagree with your comments, insurers don't back out, i.e. unless you have breached their terms and conditions within the policy, so if you haven't read, understood and complied with their terms and conditions of the policy, then that's on you.

 

I take it you got bitten once for not doing the above and hold a grudge ?

 

Personally, I have never had a problem with an insurer paying up, why, because I read the terms and conditions of their policies, and if it suites me, I proceed and pay, if it doesn't I decline the policy, that said, YOU have to know what your signing, problem is most people think insurance is insurance and you sign the dotted line, but it's not that easy, and yes there are exclusions, that is why you read the terms and conditions of the policy, i.e. one size doesn't fit everyone and if you do read and understand the terms and conditions of the policy, you will understand what is excluded and what how many confuse a visit to the hospital, depending on the policy, that you are not covered unless you are admitted under an emergency which is a 24 hour stay, that is when it kicks in, that or you have been in touch with the insurer and advised them of a procedure that has to be carrier out, the costs to do it etc etc and the insurer granting you permission to go ahead, in other words, you have to communicate with the insurer, same as being admitted in an emergency, you got to get in touch with them so they know what's going on, otherwise they can decline you, that said, there are limitations, e.g. you were unconscious for a period of time and couldn't contact them etc.

 

You can accept the above or not and can self insure, you just got to weigh up the risk of how much you will lose from your savings if you remain uninsured and end up in hospital, a bit like getting the Covid vaccine or not, I am for both, insurance and vaccinations.

[csmith]

[mokwit]

47 minutes ago, SymS said:

Except for old rich men, as they could always apply for an investment visa, or go with the 5 to 20-year visa scheme (forgot the name!).
Provided those do not require health insurance, which I don't know the answer.

Sure, and have the deal changed on them.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, koratkarlos said:

I was planning to use my existing health insurance policy.  I have received a letter from the insurance company stating "We confirm that ********** health insurance does provide cover for Coronavirus (Covid-19) under and subject to the standard terms, conditions, exclusions and warranties of
the policy."  The letter also contains my policy number and maximum annual benefit which exceeds the $ 50,000.  Does anyone know if this is acceptable?   I have a relatively standard non-Thai expat policy underwritten by Allianz.  Thank you in advance.

It's my understanding that this would certainly be acceptable.If anyone thinks differently it would be useful to know on what basis they disagree

[The Fugitive]

59 minutes ago, John Drake said:

You can have insurance and still not be insured. That is precisely what happens to someone who pays a sky high premium for health insurance that contains so many required exclusions and deductibles as to make it almost worthless. And that doesn't solve any problem for hospitals either. If someone comes in for treatment of a condition excluded by the insurance policy, then the situation is exactly the same as it was before this insurance mandate. The only difference is that the money someone might have had to pay down their hospital bill was directed to an insurance company, instead, for worthless insurance. The patient and the hospital both lose, while the insurance company just rakes in more cash.

Excellent points. This makes the case for regulated approved health insurance policies. No excess/deductibles and you're either covered for everything or not at all.

[jerrymahoney]

17 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Now I am on a Non Immigrant O extension (marriage), so that means if I exit Thailand and re-enter I have to have insurance, but what about my private health cover insurance, will that do and what docs am I supposed to produce to them because all I have is an insurance card in my wallet.

from https://thaiembdc.org/visas/

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, Benmart said:

What is "old"? Your comment is vague and without merit. 

Well golly gosh, doesn't there come an age where we are less able to deal with this sort of thing? That age varies from individual to individual. I look forward to your retraction of "without merit" and accompanying apology.

[John Drake]

5 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I take it you got bitten once for not doing the above and hold a grudge ?

You take it wrong. I don't know why you tried to personalize your disagreement with me and inject some fantasy red herring. It's an abomination to force people to buy policies so riddled with exclusions as to make them useless. The older you get, the more that will happen. As for Thai insurance companies finding ways to not pay out, just read some of these comments where people have explained exactly that scenario. Your answer of having everybody "read the fine print" is something I expect from loan sharks, con men, and used car salesmen--and insurance salesmen, too, naturally.

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes that is the CURRENT policy.

It is until they change it. 

[khunpa]

25 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

Don't worry about the house you own , the Thai children you love and support, or your Thai wife, just pay up or get out.

From a Thai government point of view that is pretty much it. Foreigners are here to give their money away and should pretty much happy with being allowed to experience “Amazing” Thailand.

 

It does not matter if the Thai people are suffering now and unemployed, as it does not affect the billionaires in charge.

 

 

[Salerno]

6 minutes ago, John Drake said:

As for Thai insurance companies finding ways to not pay out, just read some of these comments where people have explained exactly that scenario.

So get cover from a non-Thai company.

[gearbox]

27 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Now I am on a Non Immigrant O extension (marriage), so that means if I exit Thailand and re-enter I have to have insurance, but what about my private health cover insurance, will that do and what docs am I supposed to produce to them because all I have is an insurance card in my wallet.

If your policy covers covid it is compliant, you just need to upload the policy (relevant part of it) when applying for the Thailand Pass. It doesn't need to be travel insurance. If you don't have the paperwork ask your insurer to email it to you.

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, Salerno said:

So get cover from a non-Thai company.

1) I'm already here and don't need the 50K coverage yet

 

2) My response had as much to do with the idea that the insurance mandate would soon be applied to Non-Os. If so, I would think they would be treated just like the Non O-A, with a list of Thai approved companies only for those renewing in Thailand.

[Road Warrior]

THAILAND ONLY WANTS forang money , rubbish about unpaid hos, bills,, each time to goto hospital for treatment they say you have money to ?? if you should say NO !! sure they would say there is the door !!!

[medina21]

I have a Non O visa with extension of stay for 'retirement'. I have 10 million cover with Pacific Cross. My policy expires in mid August. The policy covers Wu Flu. The expiry date of the policy and the expiry date of my extension of stay do not match. So, if I leave Thailand for a trip to Europe, will I only be 'stamped' in until the expiry date of my health policy? In this case, I'd have to buy a policy covering the period until my extension expiry, or delay my trip until I have renewed my private cover. This does not seem well thought through.

[Salerno]

5 minutes ago, John Drake said:

2) My response had as much to do with the idea that the insurance mandate would soon be applied to Non-Os. If so, I would think they would be treated just like the Non O-A, with a list of Thai approved companies only for those renewing in Thailand.

That is no longer the case and was used as part of the "justification" for the latest change.

[new2here]

Disclosure: I’m not of this visa class nor situation, so i don’t really have “skin in the game” per se

 but… i’d wonder if at some point the government can set up some kind of “uninsurables” pool … 

 

kind of like what some countries/places have for drivers who can’t obtain basic coverage to legally operate a motor vehicle.

 

The underwriters side of the pool is made up all the insurers eligible to and sell policies - and each one is then assigned and required to underwrite a proportional percentage of the applicants in the pool, in line with each underwriters share of the market ..  larger insurers who sell more policies would naturally have to then take a larger percentage of the pool and so on…

 

The government sets the rates for the pool - so it’s consistent across everyone’s.. and the exact coverage, limits, deductions etc … so for the insured, it doesn’t matter who ultimately they are assigned to for their pool coverage. 

 

id wonder if the MoPH could do something like this - so that EVERYONE can be insured - and at rates that are somewhat fair, set equally and because the government sets what is covered, limits and any exclusions, there’s no risk of underwriting denial nor government rejection when/if you use said insurance. 

[Retfed50]

4 hours ago, Chad3000 said:

Unpaid medical is a total red herring to be polite. We all know this. Most hospitals will literally escort you to ATM before discharge. No joke.

I agree. I have been hospitalized a couple of times here over the years, and they wouldn't even let me out of my room until my wife went down and paid the bill!

[kiwikeith]

16 minutes ago, James Roderick said:

Do the new insurance requirements ( for entering Thailand ) apply to Elite  Visa Holders ??

Don't know, but who??? are the owners of these Thai insurance companies driving this policy, which the govt is mandating.

Maybe a case of he who pays the piper calls the tune.

I hope that compulsory insurance becomes mandatory, for any person who wishes to leave any country, that may be in violation of the human rights bill, unless a clause prohibits this, or modification to the bill, prohibits the right to leave  a country is changed.

No doubt that while this world is under this covid cloud of uncertainty , there will be mandates, protests and some lawyers doing battle. The worlds name may change from planet Earth to planet Litigation. 

[Bogbrush]

5 hours ago, pookiki said:

This is less than the 'new' requirement for O-A visa holders that will require US$100,000 medical insurance that includes treatment for COVID. 

Does this have to be obtained locally, as the previous 400 000/40 000 did? Also, does the $100 000 have to include an outpatient portion, as before?

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, Salerno said:

That is no longer the case and was used as part of the "justification" for the latest change.

Thanks for that information. I'll check into it.

[StevieAus]

5 hours ago, Orinoco said:

Thailand is slowly slamming the door shut for the  retirement community.

Get out old Falang unless you have big money !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The writing has been on the wall for some time now.

TIT.

 

 

 

They are in effect slamming the door on young and old unless you want to buy $ US 50,000 00 insurance ( per person ?) pay for Covid tests and stay in a designated hotel for at least one night.

Spoke to a friend in Aus last night who pre Covid came to Thailand every year with his family

Guess what not this year going elsewhere.

[MrJ2U]

Constantly changing.

 

There are constantly spinning ideas to make money of tourists and expats alike.

 

Never mind Phukets notorious Taxis.

 

This government rivals any Taxi Mafia!

[mikeymike100]

5 hours ago, Chad3000 said:

Unpaid medical is a total red herring to be polite. We all know this. Most hospitals will literally escort you to ATM before discharge. No joke.

In some you need to pay before any treatment/procedure, if the estimate for treatment was too high, you do get reimbursed.

[10baht]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

While the Thai authorities have previously revealed the issue that unpaid medical bills from uninsured foreign tourists have on the Thai health care system (and state coffers), if the current insurance requirement was to be implemented long term it could potentially put off millions of foereign tourists from visiting Thailand altogether.

O-A's are not tourists,

[Salerno]

16 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Thanks for that information. I'll check into it.

There's articles in various news outlets including the one that can't be named and the thaiger. Would be nice to find an "official" site but until then I believe this link is OK to post https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2021/10/20/health-insurance-changes-for-expat-retirees/

[Salerno]

24 minutes ago, Bogbrush said:

Does this have to be obtained locally, as the previous 400 000/40 000 did? Also, does the $100 000 have to include an outpatient portion, as before?

Not Thai and no specification re out-patient requirement,

[CM Dad]

Thailand encourages and welcomes people over the age of fifty to retire here as long as they die before age seventy.  If the country is going to require health insurance for older expats, especially those with Thai families, then insurance needs to be offered at a reasonable price.  Retirees and those with Thai spouses and children are not the ones who leave the country with unpaid hospital bills.  Those who do that are tourists.

[AAArdvark]

2 hours ago, TheFishman1 said:

So if you just renew your nan o extension  and you want to leave the country then you’re gonna have to buy another 11 months of insurance that seems to be very expensive TIT

I guess you have to plan your trips accordingly

[Anant72]

I am am a non-O visa holder. I have a Cigna health insurance that covers me up to US$250,000 a year and that includes COVID. I am still trying to ascertain whether this insurance company is considered legitimate or not since it is not on the Ministry of Health’s list of insurance companies. I am going to be 74 soon and Would have a hard time getting a policy. I am not planning to go abroad any time soon but will eventually have to. Has anybody heard about the possibility the health authorities could accept other insurance companies for retirees over 70?