SURVEY: Health Insurance for foreigners -- Good idea or not?

[RichardColeman]

10 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

In an emergency situation, how is the hospital supposed to know all that?

my wife would deal with it. she's richer than me

[CM Dad]

If the government is going to require medical insurance then hey should have an affordable insurance plan for all expats regardless of age, especially those with Thai families and long-term visas and extensions.

[moogradod]

26 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

my wife would deal with it. she's richer than me

So is mine and I canot tell you how happy I am about this

[dlclark97]

Have not read all the threads but if a foreigner has adequate health insurance that applies here in Thailand, that should be all that is required.  For example, most military retirees have Tricare coverage.  It pays about 75% of costs incurred and the retiree pays the other 25%.  Retirees pay every month to their Medicare Part B to maintain their Tricare coverage.  They also pay an additional amount to provide coverage for their spouse and any children up to age 23 if enrolled in an institution of higher education.  The kicker seems to be that some hospitals do not direct bill Tricare, some do.  It is an easy process if they would just do it.  Tricare provides coverage in most countries around the world, many of which have differing insurance requirements so they will not specify in their annual coverage letter what specific amounts are covered.  Basically, it is unlimited for illness or accident that would far exceed the Thai minimum requirements, it just can not be stated in the letter.  In the event the sponsor should become deceased, the remaining spouse or any of the various military organizations such as the VFW, American Legion and others can assist in filing a claim for services provided.

 

A recent proposal seen is for persons to self insure is with a deposit of 3 million baht in a Thai bank to be used for medical purposes only.  My question, if the individual passes away, what happens to that deposit?  I would assume any medical costs due would be paid and hope that any remaining amount would be given to his/her heirs.  Could we trust that to happen here?

 

Seems this 'insurance' requirement came about as a result of hospitals losing money because of thousands not paying or not being able to pay for medical care received.  A far more fair way to provide for those incidents would be to add a 500-1000 thb surcharge to any foreigner entering the country for medical coverage during his/her time here and a 5000 bht payment to every extension of stay processed.  This could be kept in a fund to pay for accidents/injuries for tourists and others while they are either touring here or for those who are determined are unable to pay for treatment.

 

As it currently is, it is grossly unfair to require the insurance provided by specific Thai companies to only those arriving or having arrived many years ago on an Non O-A visa for retirement.  Supposedly this can be converted for reason of marriage to a Thai where there is no insurance requirement but the process not easily completed..  

 

 

[moogradod]

Just now, CM Dad said:

If the government is going to require medical insurance then hey should have an affordable insurance plan for all expats regardless of age, especially those with Thai families and long-term visas and extensions.

and regardless of preconditions. Drives me crazy. Why do so many always focus on age ? Its just obtainablity regardless of what.

[ChaiyaTH]

I would not even dare staying here without insurance once 50 and above.

 

I do think people should have an alternative option such as proof of funds instead of insurance.

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Why do so many always focus on age ? Its just obtainablity regardless of what.

Perhaps because 1/4 guys not even make it to 65? The risk increases significantly with age.

[wwest5829]

I favor all entering Tourists be required to have travel medical insurance on the same basis as those entering Europe on a Schengen Visa. At age 74, with pre-existing conditions, I oppose my currently being required to pay 11,400 baht for a 200K deductible policy which will exclude my greatest health risk. Problem is the cookie cutter approach not taking into consideration any comprehensive "accident insurance", and the fact that, if I can get on a plane I am covered under medicare in the US for serious issues like cancer (don't get me started on pointing out full retired military get global health coverage while non-military are denied their Medicare coverage outside the US). Taken into account should also be any insurance I have that will provide some coverage. I have a healthcare retirement policy that will pay up to $5000.000 USD annually. This policy and my paying the remaining bill covered the total cost of my 2015 heart attack in Chiang Mai. I would favor a fair cost Thailand government long term stay visa holder (retirees) social program insurance that would prevent the citizens of Thailand absorbing foreigner medical costs ... and I think that should be the sole driving fair idea behind requiring health insurance.

[RichardColeman]

Be honest as we have all said before at some time, 500 baht hospital insurance on all entries to thailand, a £12 surcharge x 40 million will rake in more than they lose. Can only assume that some thai officials have fingers in insurance companies rather than in hospitals 

[HashBrownHarry]

All the people who advocate for self funding, what figure would you call 'enough to cover anything'?

 

I had a friend who went in ICU and one night was 150K so you can imagine racking up a hefty bill in a very short amount of time....

 

The 800K mentioned by some would last only 5 days ICU, then what?

[The Hammer2021]

3 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I chose Number 2 only as an alternative to the others, I agree with all of the above, the sticking point, as pointed out by "Thanks for Nothing ((Bangkok Post letter)),  is Thai Insurance companies will not insure older folks above (??)55 years old.   Expats on long term Visa's, own property, have a business, pay taxes should be able to be covered under the Govt Plan, or at least the be treated as local residents...............I have health insurance, always have, and have spent a good amount of money in past 10-15 years in hospitals here..........my insurance covers 80% of everything and 100% of anything Covid related - will Thai Immigration or any Thai Consulate accept that??  Remains to be seen.

You are wrong about the 55 year age limit.Thai insurance companies will insure people up to the age of 80...definitely 70, no problem.

[daveAustin]

Until decent, legitimate, appropriately-priced policies are made available, medical insurance should not be mandatory. If this is forced on people, they will go backwards and have fewer and fewer visitors. Propose using some of the trillions generated by past tourism to pay for those that could not pay their (OTT) hospital bill rather than penalise everyone with a worthless policy. 

[Confuscious]

10 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I favor all entering Tourists be required to have travel medical insurance on the same basis as those entering Europe on a Schengen Visa. At age 74, with pre-existing conditions, I oppose my currently being required to pay 11,400 baht for a 200K deductible policy which will exclude my greatest health risk. Problem is the cookie cutter approach not taking into consideration any comprehensive "accident insurance", and the fact that, if I can get on a plane I am covered under medicare in the US for serious issues like cancer (don't get me started on pointing out full retired military get global health coverage while non-military are denied their Medicare coverage outside the US). Taken into account should also be any insurance I have that will provide some coverage. I have a healthcare retirement policy that will pay up to $5000.000 USD annually. This policy and my paying the remaining bill covered the total cost of my 2015 heart attack in Chiang Mai. I would favor a fair cost Thailand government long term stay visa holder (retirees) social program insurance that would prevent the citizens of Thailand absorbing foreigner medical costs ... and I think that should be the sole driving fair idea behind requiring health insurance.

I am pretty sure that most "tourists" have a health insurance.
The problem is that most if these "tourists get involved in driving a big bike without license, driving a bike without helmet and security protection, getting involved in some sports that are excluded by the insurance company (YES, swimming is also a sport), etc.

The tourist ends up in the Bangkok hospital or whatever and will need urgent brain surgery or whatever.
After a few days, the bills are in the 7 digit range and the only possibility is to setup a GoFound.me appeal.
Mostly, the hospital is left with huge unpaid bills.

I can accept that this is a burden to Thailand, but there other solutions as require everybody to subscribe a very expensive insurance which at the end will not pay also.

I have pre-existing diseases, but I could subscribe inot a PA insurance in Thailand (have it alread 15 years) very cheap.
Insured amount is 1,000,000 baht.
Yearly payment is about 6,000 baht.
And every time I had an ACCIDENT, they paid the bill without asking questions.
  

[david555]

Good  idea for everyone who remains in Thailand  have medical insurance when they enter or renew their visa, and if reasonable cover and premiums 

 

But... but... , please introduce that only after i have left Thailand at 3th quarter of 2022 ....????   ???? 

[Confuscious]

15 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

All the people who advocate for self funding, what figure would you call 'enough to cover anything'?

 

I had a friend who went in ICU and one night was 150K so you can imagine racking up a hefty bill in a very short amount of time....

 

The 800K mentioned by some would last only 5 days ICU, then what?

And what would the result be if they had subsribed an expensive insurance which would not cover the expenses because of "Pre existing diseases"?

Nothing would be paid, zilch, nada, rien de knots.

If Thailand is honnest about avoiding the unpaid health bills and the potential health risc of foreigners in Thailand, they would make a side system in the health care in which the foreigners could pay a fair monthly/yearly sum and get insured WITH pre-existing conditions.

[Felt 35]

I think of our own interest and health we should have a insurance but when that said Thailand should accept any insurance from abroad as long as it cover the same basic coverage as the Thais get from their own Governments healthcare system. 

Felt

[tingtong]

Would only be fair if foreigners on non-immigrant visas or extension of stay be able to join the government offered social security coverage, same as a Thai, for the same price, and same coverage.

 

Especially concerning the older expats, it is just dishonest (to try) to lure pensioners here who in turn hardly be able to secure a medical insurance, but the same time make that mandatory!!

[Moonlover]

Seeking and/or accepting healthcare is not mandatory. One is free to say 'my body, my mind and it's my choice that you leave it alone'. And that is what my advance directive says in a nutshell.

 

And as such health insurance (a misnomer if ever there was one) should not be compulsory. 

[Banana7]

The only reason the Thai government maybe considering mandatory insurance for foreigners is that there was about 40,000,000 baht in unpaid hospital bills incurred by foreigners.  A secondary reason maybe to get more foreign currency and make Thai insurance companies more profitable and their shareholders richer.

 

Everybody needs to remember all insurance companies are in the business of making a profit while spreading the risk of a claim. The Thai covid insurance scheme has provided lots of profits for Thai insurance companies.

 

The government could easily cover the 40M sum by adding US$1 for entry into Thailand by all people, not just foreigners that fly-in but also collect from everybody at land borders and those that arrive here through "natural crossings". But this is unnecessary since they are about to implement a new 500 baht fee for foreigners in the next few months.

 

Also the government should add a monthly healthcare fee for all migrant workers and collect it from the employers. But also add heavy fines for employers of migrant workers who try to cheat the system, and deport the migrant worker. It seems employers of illegal migrant labour rarely incur significant penalties, sufficient to discourage the practice.

 

There should be NO mandatory health insurance for foreigners.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Banana7

[Salerno]

7 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

A secondary reason maybe to get more foreign currency and make Thai insurance companies more profitable and their shareholders richer.

Yes, that would explain why you can use overseas policies.

[HashBrownHarry]

47 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

And what would the result be if they had subsribed an expensive insurance which would not cover the expenses because of "Pre existing diseases"?

It was an accident that he ended up there NOT a pre existing condition so his tab was paid.

[HashBrownHarry]

48 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

they would make a side system in the health care in which the foreigners could pay a fair monthly/yearly sum and get insured WITH pre-existing conditions.

Why should they?

 

Surely they should improve health care for their own nationals first before worrying about 'aliens'?

[HashBrownHarry]

42 minutes ago, tingtong said:

Would only be fair if foreigners on non-immigrant visas or extension of stay be able to join the government offered social security coverage, same as a Thai, for the same price, and same coverage.

 

Especially concerning the older expats, it is just dishonest (to try) to lure pensioners here who in turn hardly be able to secure a medical insurance, but the same time make that mandatory!!

I would not wish to join the Thai healthcare for all the T in China - no thanks.

 

Have you seen Thai people queue outside clinics to get seen ( mostly at weekends ), sitting on plastic stools on the street waiting hours to be seen? This happens in rural Thailand every single weekend. Would you accept doing that? coz that's what the government social security offers.......

[The Theory]

I live in Thailand and I don't understand why I need to get a covid insurance (for longer than a month) after returning to Thailand !!!! I'm not returning to a "covid free" country (Thailand) !!!!! I'm not a tourist (I understand that tourists need to have covid/health insurance when they enter to Thailand) I live here and I have funds in Thai banks (required by immigration). 

[starky]

2 hours ago, moogradod said:

Having Health Insurance cannot be a requirement. Being able to pay for ones own medical cost is the requirement.

 

Insurance is only one means to achieve that. You may have the possibility to conclude one but this should not exclude the elderly and people with preconditions then.

 

The easy remedy to that: Introduce a fixed account of health purposes in addition to health insurance solutions. Think a little bit how many problems this would solve. And it would even be safer (insurances sometimes do not pay out) and better for the country (more money in their banks).

And how would you police people being able to pay for their own medical costs? I'm interested to know people on this forum blow up about having a few hundred thousand baht in a bank account as a visa requirement what would you suggest would be a reasonable amount to have stashed to cover  "medical costs"? How would it be proven and how would it be enforced and would that amount be more or less than having basic medical coverage? 

[starky]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Be honest as we have all said before at some time, 500 baht hospital insurance on all entries to thailand, a £12 surcharge x 40 million will rake in more than they lose. Can only assume that some thai officials have fingers in insurance companies rather than in hospitals 

In a public or private hospital? And why should tourists be required to cover the health care needs of someone that chooses to live here?

[starky]

1 hour ago, CM Dad said:

If the government is going to require medical insurance then hey should have an affordable insurance plan for all expats regardless of age, especially those with Thai families and long-term visas and extensions.

Regardless of age or conditions? So a  25 year old with no family pays the same as a 75 year old with 3 kids and missus ? Yeah right. Sounds fair

[HashBrownHarry]

18 minutes ago, The Theory said:

I live in Thailand and I don't understand why I need to get a covid insurance (for longer than a month) after returning to Thailand !!!! I'm not returning to a "covid free" country (Thailand) !!!!! I'm not a tourist (I understand that tourists need to have covid/health insurance when they enter to Thailand) I live here and I have funds in Thai banks (required by immigration). 

I agree to some extent however it's not a bad thing to be insured for.

 

If you're not insured and get Covid with bad symptoms, would you be happy going to Thai goverment hospital for treatment?

 

I certainly would not.

[skipper]

It's a good idea to have health insurance, but not by regulations.

 

[Longwood50]

3 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

how and when does that bargaining occur... you go to the hospital w/an actively dangerous condition or in tremendous pain - do you want to bargain under those circumstances? 

 

"i'll give you everything I have for one shot of morphine!! Now!!"

Did I say it was a "perfect solution". Using your example the hospital could charge the insurance company an outrageous amount and everyone who purchases insurance pays for it via higher premiums. 

At the present time with third party pay the hospitals have no reason to provide healthcare at reasonable prices.  The consumer who is the insured doesn't care what it costs.  Once the deductible or copay is reached not only doesn't the patient shop for services the patient demands only the best.   

In the instance you are talking about, hospitals should be forced to have an established price list for services.  They can barter down if they wish but in no case can they charge the patient more than the "list" price filed with the government. 

What you describe is no different than the person who is on a trip and their car breaks down.  The mechanic has them at a disadvantage.  That does not mean that all car owners should have insurance to cover them in case their car breaks down and negate their ability to barter for car services when back home. 

Consumers shop for food, cars, appliances, vacations, prescription drugs, hotel rooms, jewelry, and almost every aspect of life and yet somehow healthcare is sacrosanct where it is expected not only does the consumer not have to shop but the provider does not have to compete.  When lasik eye surgery first came out it was approximately $5,000 USD per eye.  It is now down to less than $500 per eye and all with better technology.  Why?  Because lasik was not covered by insurance, consumers shopped and doctors responded by lowering prices. 

Recently a friend of mine who is Thai badly broke her leg and chose to go to a prestigious private hospital.  They told her it would be 350,000 baht for her "emergency"  surgery.  She said she could not afford that and offered 200,000 baht.  They responded no but would do it for 250,000 baht.  

Emergencies as said can be handled with an established price list.  However for routine procedures, health check ups, blood work, etc. very simple if you want them pay for them, otherwise don't get service. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Longwood50