Anutin speaks out on the unvaccinated possibly facing restrictions

[webfact]

Picture: Daily News

 

Thailand's controversial Minister of Health and DPM Anutin Charnvirakul was interviewed by Daily News on what the media called the latest drama:

 

People who are not vaccinated being unable to access certain services and being denied employment in some jobs. 

 

Some have likened this to being treated like lepers.

 

The minister, often criticized for inflammatory and off the cuff remarks, struck a more measured, reasoned tone, notes ASEAN NOW. 

 

He even mentioned his own experiences concerning a trip to a WHO meeting in Switzerland that he could not attend. 

 

He said that not being vaccinated was a person's basic human right. You can't force anyone to be vaccinated. 

 

But equally he felt that owners of businesses and those offering services to the public were within their rights to serve who they wished in order to protect themselves, their other staff and their other customers.

 

This was particularly true in the tourism industry, he noted. 

 

Employers were also within their rights to insist that certain employees in certain companies could only work for them if they are vaccinated. 

 

Such cases were already being raised abroad, he noted, and Thailand would be no different.

 

He stressed the importance of everyone who can getting vaccinated as it protects you and means far less potential health problems if you then catch Covid.

 

He again stressed that vaccination does not mean you can't be infected but that people vaxxed are very unlikely to need intubation or die.

 

He continued to advise practical measures like social distancing while copmpletely understanding people's reticence at being around the unvaccinated. 

 

Some in society - particularly anti-vaxxers have said that draconian rules mean that those choosing not to be vaccinated or who have exemptions face being treated like lepers in society.

 

Anutin said that society was still coming to terms with the pandemic and its aftermath.

 

He cited his own experiences about the now well-known affair in not going to Switzerland. 

 

He said that the reality was he could have gotten a visa after two doses of Sinovac. 

 

But he would have had to have stayed in his hotel once there and could not have attended the WHO meeting or even gone out to a restaurant.

 

He recognised that he would need a booster shot to do his job there properly. So that's what he would have to do to satisfy their entry requirements.

 

Not unreasonably, he compared this to other employees having to get vaccinated to do their jobs.

 

"It's part of living together happily in society," he noted. 

 

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[Thailand]

Coming soon to an immigration office near you.

[petermik]

Another day another spurious comment from a Government official here....

[Geoffggi]

6 minutes ago, webfact said:

He said that not being vaccinated was a person's basic human right. You can't force anyone to be vaccinated. 

 

But equally he felt that owners of businesses and those offering services to the public were within their rights to serve who they wished in order to protect themselves, their other staff and their other customers.

Personally speaking I am double vaccinated, but am also of the opinion that the first part of the above is correct meaning you should not be forced into being vaccinated it is a personal choice, & vaccinated people can carry the virus just the same as unvaccinated people. 

 

I agree that business people should have the right to serve who they want and not be pressured into doing so by any government decree 

[Will B Good]

14 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Coming soon to an immigration office near you.

Could mean more business for the agents I guess.

[Gandtee]

Another shot?? That will be four!! Some poor buggers are still waiting for one! Privileged? Just a tad maybe.????

[sandyf]

9 minutes ago, Geoffggi said:

Personally speaking I am double vaccinated, but am also of the opinion that the first part of the above is correct meaning you should not be forced into being vaccinated it is a personal choice, & vaccinated people can carry the virus just the same as unvaccinated people. 

When I joined the RAF in 1964 there was no choice. In the space of a few weeks we had every vaccine on the go, even if you already had them. If it goes with the job so be it.

The eradication of many diseases in the west have made people complacent and time to wake up to reality.

How vocal would the anti vaxers have been during the Ebola epidemic?

History has proven that vaccines are effective in combating disease, you cannot pick and choose when you will contribute to the protection of others.

[robblok]

24 minutes ago, Geoffggi said:

Personally speaking I am double vaccinated, but am also of the opinion that the first part of the above is correct meaning you should not be forced into being vaccinated it is a personal choice, & vaccinated people can carry the virus just the same as unvaccinated people. 

 

I agree that business people should have the right to serve who they want and not be pressured into doing so by any government decree 

The discussion is going on in every country, I am all for a segregated society. If you don't want to VAX that is ok just accept the consequences of it.  Personally i feel that being vaccinated and by doing so spreading the virus LESS, and putting up to 8 times less stress on the health system should be rewarded by having more freedoms. 

 

If vaxers can't accept that their choice has an effect on their life then they need to think what is more important for them. Its the soft forcing of people, who can still refuse just have to accept their limited options then.

[ezzra]

In this life we all forced to do or live in a way that we don't much like or prefer because we are part of a bigger and wider society and every now and than things happen that compel and force us to tow the lone for the benefit and the goods of the whole and being vaxed it he NOW thing...

[Farmerslife]

OMG! I find myself agreeing with something Anutin said;

"But equally he felt that owners of businesses and those offering services to the public were within their rights to serve who they wished in order to protect themselves, their other staff and their other customers."

Time for me to lie down in a darkened room. ????

 

[jackdd]

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus. Thus unvaccinated people pose a higher risk to society.

Correct, we don't inject people against their will. But what we as society do, is putting people who we think pose a high risk to harm other people in our society into a forensic psychiatric hospital or similar institution.

Edited November 19, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden misinfo post removed

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

He said that not being vaccinated was a person's basic human right. You can't force anyone to be vaccinated. 

 

But equally he felt that owners of businesses and those offering services to the public were within their rights to serve who they wished in order to protect themselves, their other staff and their other customers.

 

This was particularly true in the tourism industry, he noted. 

 

Employers were also within their rights to insist that certain employees in certain companies could only work for them if they are vaccinated. 

Very true, anti vaxxers and covid deniers have a basic human right not to be vaccinated.

 

However its a little ironic that they were the ones ranting about everyone else telling them to stay at home or in their bunker while they carried on life as normal. 

 

Guess what, the way the world is heading, its those same anti vaxxers that will now be stuck at home, unable to travel, unable to attend public events, eat in restaurants or anything else that would be part of the normal society. 

 

Welcome to the new normal.

[edwinchester]

Vaccinated people are less likely to be infected by covid so if you do get infected by somebody it is much more likely from somebody who is unvaccinated.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-but-its-still-more-likely-if-youre-unvaccinated#Vaccines-protect-against-Delta-infection

Edited November 19, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of misinfo post removed

[Geoffggi]

4 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

Vaccinated people are less likely to be infected by covid so if you do get infected by somebody it is much more likely from somebody who is unvaccinated.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-but-its-still-more-likely-if-youre-unvaccinated#Vaccines-protect-against-Delta-infection

From the article you posted : Although fully vaccinated people were less likely to contract an infection, when they did — what’s known as a breakthrough infection — they can transmit the Delta variant at a similar level as unvaccinated people.

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Such cases were already being raised abroad, he noted, and Thailand would be no different

That's right, lots of discussion about it at the moment in Europe. Anutin have lately become quite sensible compared to his "dirty farangs" in the beginning of the pandemic...????

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

Coming soon to an immigration office near you.

 

1 hour ago, webfact said:

He said that not being vaccinated was a person's basic human right. You can't force anyone to be vaccinated. 

 

I think we can say goodbye to that notion.

[edwinchester]

4 minutes ago, Geoffggi said:

From the article you posted : Although fully vaccinated people were less likely to contract an infection, when they did — what’s known as a breakthrough infection — they can transmit the Delta variant at a similar level as unvaccinated people.

Yes but as the vaccinated are much less likely to contract an infection vaccinated people as a whole will be infecting much fewer people than the unvaccinated.

Edited November 19, 2021 by edwinchester

[Will B Good]

6 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

Yes but as the vaccinated are much less likely to contract an infection vaccinated people as a whole will be infecting much fewer people than the unvaccinated.

Yes.......I rather thought the extract proved your point.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Will B Good

[Pouatchee]

I have no issues getting vaccinated. However, I do want to have a say in which vaccine I will jab into my body. I want nothing to do with the local Astrazaneca nor do I want anything to do with the Chinese <deleted> that is being forced upon all residents of Thailand... I am willing to pay for Pfizer or even Moderna... but here where I live neither are available.

 

Funny thing is... the government jabbed the Matayom school boys with Pfizer... might that have anything to do with the fact that they will likely soon be drafted into the army? The Video Star seems to be taking care of his own...

[Enzian]

There is a whole school of social engineering thinking that promotes the idea of "nudging" people in the desired direction. I can think of many objections to it, and to its strongest supporters, but I have to agree it has its place. And the place for it seems to have come.

[Bkk Brian]

28 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

Yes but as the vaccinated are much less likely to contract an infection vaccinated people as a whole will be infecting much fewer people than the unvaccinated.

Just to add to that, even when a vaccinated person has a breakthrough infection the viral load will decrease quicker, a study in Singapore found:

 

However, vaccinated people with Delta might remain infectious for a shorter period, according to researchers in Singapore who tracked viral loads for each day of COVID-19 infection among people who had and hadn’t been vaccinated. Delta viral loads were similar for both groups for the first week of infection, but dropped quickly after day 7 in vaccinated people. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Geoffggi]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Just to add to that, even when a vaccinated person has a breakthrough infection the viral load will decrease quicker, a study in Singapore found:

 

However, vaccinated people with Delta might remain infectious for a shorter period, according to researchers in Singapore who tracked viral loads for each day of COVID-19 infection among people who had and hadn’t been vaccinated. Delta viral loads were similar for both groups for the first week of infection, but dropped quickly after day 7 in vaccinated people. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

 

 

 

 

This was not the discussion, it was if vaccinated people can carry and pass on the virus which there is no doubt they can

[josephbloggs]

 Yes vaccinated people can still get infected (two double vaxxed in my household have had it - very mild symptoms) but you get rid of the virus faster and are therefore contagious for a much shorter time, ergo vaccinated people are putting fewer people at risk then unvaccinated, simple fact.

https://theconversation.com/no-vaccinated-people-are-not-just-as-infectious-as-unvaccinated-people-if-they-get-covid-171302

 

I do believe in free choice but also believe society as a whole has a responsibility to each other and it is up to each business who they serve, and up to each employer who they employ.  It will leave some people out of things but that is their choice and this is just the way it will be worldwide if you want to eat out, catch a flight, go to an event.

In Singapore a company can legally terminate an employee if they refuse to be vaccinated or refuse to disclose their vaccination status.  Other countries are moving this way too.  In Singapore also there is no free medical care if you willingly decided not to vaccinate.

Edited November 19, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of removed misinfo post deleted

[Geoffggi]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes vaccinated people can still get infected (two double vaxxed in my household have had it - very mild symptoms) but you get rid of the virus faster and are therefore contagious for a much shorter time, ergo vaccinated people are putting fewer people at risk then unvaccinated, simple fact.

https://theconversation.com/no-vaccinated-people-are-not-just-as-infectious-as-unvaccinated-people-if-they-get-covid-171302

 

I do believe in free choice but also believe society as a whole has a responsibility to each other and it is up to each business who they serve, and up to each employer who they employ.  It will leave some people out of things but that is their choice and this is just the way it will be worldwide if you want to eat out, catch a flight, go to an event.

In Singapore a company can legally terminate an employee if they refuse to be vaccinated or refuse to disclose their vaccination status.  Other countries are moving this way too.  In Singapore also there is no free medical care if you willingly decided not to vaccinate.

One could introduce many different scenarios of what could or could not happen but the facts do remain that vaccinated people CAN pass on the virus...

Edited November 19, 2021 by onthedarkside
trolling comment removed

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

One could introduce many different scenarios of what could or could not happen but the facts do remain that vaccinated people CAN pass on the virus...

Sorry you did not just say vaccinated people can pass on the virus though did you, you also say "unvaccinated people are not putting others at risk any more than vaccinated people" which is what I was correcting you on (I specifically pointed that out in my rpley).  But you conveniently ignored that.

[Rimmer]

An unattributed misleading post has been removed

[Geoffggi]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Sorry you did not just say vaccinated people can pass on the virus though did you, you also say "unvaccinated people are not putting others at risk any more than vaccinated people" which is what I was correcting you on (I specifically pointed that out in my rpley).  But you conveniently ignored that.

I would re-read my original post before making any further comments, I will make it easy for you here it is: Personally speaking I am double vaccinated, but am also of the opinion that the first part of the above is correct meaning you should not be forced into being vaccinated it is a personal choice...

Edited November 19, 2021 by onthedarkside
misinfo comment removed

[tifino]

52 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

Yes but as the vaccinated are much less likely to contract an infection vaccinated people as a whole will be infecting much fewer people than the unvaccinated.

they instead then become a "Carrier"  Much like how a Mum who contracted German Measles as a kid does not suffer herself through her life, but her new born Daughter ends up needing a Cochlear Implant, and beer bottle lens spectacles... 

[WEBBYB808]

This is great, but how about some booster shots since the original  vaccine  wanes in a short amunt of months?  Meaning some are due boosters now.  There weren't  enough  beds or medical  equipment before the surge came.  Now you have many more on the ground in Thailand  increasing a possible strain on the medical system once again if a surge should happen.  You can have a million baht insurance all you want, but if the need for respirators arrise, and there is still a shortage  then your million  baht insurance  wont help one bit.  I dont  suppose  any of the returning expats even considered  the need for a booster, the winter surges in northern  hemisphere ( twice now its happened April 2020, April 2021, as it eventually makes it to Thailand) and it will come again without  boosters.  People still rushed back, and the local government  tries to hinder this for safe measures, with the alcohol  ban, so what did they rush back for?  To get sick?  I know one things sure they brought an uptick in STDs with them.

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

I would re-read my original post before making any further comments, I will make it easy for you here it is: Personally speaking I am double vaccinated, but am also of the opinion that the first part of the above is correct meaning you should not be forced into being vaccinated it is a personal choice...

Yes, and I agree with that bit, but then you continued to say "unvaccinated people are not putting others at risk any more than vaccinated people" which I am disagreeing with.  Ok, let's move on.