is booster vaccine required after two Astrazena jabs?

[MrJ2U]

"When's the Best Time to Get a Booster Shot? Doctors Suggest a Six-Month Interval"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-26/boosters-prevent-covid-better-after-six-month-wait-doctors-say

 

[lopburi3]

As is evident this is still a how long is a piece of string situation.  There just has not been enough time to know for sure.  Current thinking seems to be six months for those most at risk and a year or more for those not.  But even that is guesswork and until more of the world has access kind of meaningless (as this weeks SA version indicates).  For the time being probably better for all of use to get the world vaccinated and run with perhaps yearly shots until that is done as this is not something that can be kept in a bottle for an extended time.  

 

10% infection on a 600 pax flight from SA to Netherlands today.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

As is evident this is still a how long is a piece of string situation.  There just has not been enough time to know for sure.  Current thinking seems to be six months for those most at risk and a year or more for those not.  But even that is guesswork and until more of the world has access kind of meaningless (as this weeks SA version indicates).  For the time being probably better for all of use to get the world vaccinated and run with perhaps yearly shots until that is done as this is not something that can be kept in a bottle for an extended time.  

 

10% infection on a 600 pax flight from SA to Netherlands today.

 

Indeed information is limited but the very latest studies combined with the identification of the Omicron variant have led US and other countries to revise booster policy to be all adults after 6 months instead of just the elderly & vulnerable.

[fvw53]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Indeed information is limited but the very latest studies combined with the identification of the Omicron variant have led US and other countries to revise booster policy to be all adults after 6 months instead of just the elderly & vulnerable.

I do not want to wait to apply for a booster until the last week of the 6 months since my last AZ jab.  I got my AZ jabs at Bang Sue Station taking the opportunity offered for a walk in to people older than 75 years. Where could I apply on time for a booster jab (I have the 13 digits of my AZ jabs) : shall I go to a private hospital and eventually pay for it?

[RBOP]

You'll probably have to wait till March 2022 to see what booster schemes may be available for you. None right now for your circumstance.  

[mommysboy]

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm not vouching for the accuracy of the Swedish study... But it was done using national government health system data, and authored by academics who argue it bolsters the case for better use of booster shots.

 

So, I'm not about to dismiss their findings out of hand as some kind of anti-vax charade. And their findings regarding the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines match up pretty well with what's been previously reported for those.

 

Most of the other vaccine followup research that's been done has been fairly limited in the time spans for tracking cases post vaccination. So I think the Swedish study is looking at vaccine effectiveness results going out for a longer period of time post vaccination.

 

Wasn't there a study in Israel that concluded the same about a certain well known vaccine?

 

In the Swedish study I doubt very much if anyone under 40 even got the AZ vaccine.  So of course like all vaccines antibody waned quicker perhaps in the older people. So maybe it's true in one sense, but wholly unreliable and unfair in another.

 

Also the danger of this type of study and argument is that we focus on narrow issues- that of symptomatic infection and antibody response.  It leads us to believe that a vaccine is no good, whereas nothing could be further from the truth- the AZ vaccine is particularly good at preventing serious illness over a long time frame- perhaps even years, as could be the case with other big 3.

 

You've been feeding the troll unfortunately imo. 

[digger70]

The Hospital send us a text this morning  28/11/2021 to get the 3rd AZ jab  The walk in start 29/11/2021  till  3/11/2021  Down here in Hat Yai.

I had my first AZ  early June and the 2nd AZ end of August .

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by digger70

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, fvw53 said:

I do not want to wait to apply for a booster until the last week of the 6 months since my last AZ jab.  I got my AZ jabs at Bang Sue Station taking the opportunity offered for a walk in to people older than 75 years. Where could I apply on time for a booster jab (I have the 13 digits of my AZ jabs) : shall I go to a private hospital and eventually pay for it?

There is no way to apply for a booster now in the public system (except those whose primary series was Sinovac or Sinopharm). I doubt this will change anytime soon as they still have about half the country not yet received a primary series.

 

At your age you are indeed wise to seek a booster at the 6 month mark. Your best chance of that is to buy a Moderna dose from a private hospital.

[Sheryl]

40 minutes ago, digger70 said:

The Hospital send us a text this morning  28/11/2021 to get the 3rd AZ jab  The walk in start 29/11/2021  till  3/11/2021  Down here in Hat Yai.

I had my first AZ  early June and the 2nd AZ end of August .

 

Are you sure this was for people who had 2 doses AZ already and mot those who had Sinovac?

[chilly07]

On 11/27/2021 at 11:55 AM, JustAnotherHun said:

The AZ effect against infection is close to nothing after 4 months

 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410

 

But risk of severe illness is reduced for 9mths. Boosters needed for high risk individuals. Vaccines are not intended to prevent infection just reduce serious symptoms

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Also the danger of this type of study and argument is that we focus on narrow issues- that of symptomatic infection and antibody response.  It leads us to believe that a vaccine is no good, whereas nothing could be further from the truth- the AZ vaccine is particularly good at preventing serious illness over a long time frame- perhaps even years, as could be the case with other big 3.

 

It's one thing to traffic in misinformation. It's a totally different thing to recognize and be willing to consider legitimate scientific research that helps develop the evolving understanding of just how current COVID vaccines function, and what their shortcomings may be.

 

From reading a lot of studies lately, there is a legitimate evolving understanding that the current vaccines DO have waning effectiveness against preventing infections once you get out 4, 5, 6 months past full vaccination.

 

The details of those findings vary, but as Sheryl noted above, it's the real world case experiences public health officials are encounting and the results of these kinds of studies that have led toward more governments embracing the notion of booster shots for all being likely required.

 

Last night, in a different thread, I did a recap and summary of the August UK Public Health findings on waning vaccine effectiveness, which had some findings not all that different that the Swedish study. Unfortunately, the UK study only tracked 3 months post vaccination, and didn't consider prevention against hospitalization at all. So very much more limited than the Swedish study.

 

On the other hand, there also is a U.S. study out of Southern California from last month that also had similar findings to the Swedish study in terms of waning vaccine effectiveness against preventing infection. But it tracked participants out 6 months, and because it was the U.S., didn't have any info for AZ vaccinations at all. The good news there, however, was it found the Pfizer vaccine had a 90+% effectiveness against COVID hospitalizations even 6 months out -- which is a very much better result than the Swedish study's hospitalization effectiveness data.

 

I did posts on both the UK and the U.S. studies, and they are located here:

 

 

One of the issues addressed in the U.S. study above was to try to identify what factors have been leading to waning vaccine effectiveness in preventing infections -- the emergence of the Delta variant, or simply the passage of time since full vaccination. And, at least as I read their study, the authors basically concluded that the waning effectiveness was NOT so much due to the effects of Delta variant, and much more related to responses to the vaccines themselves over time.

 

"Our variant-specific analysis suggests that reductions in BNT162b2 effectiveness over time are likely to be primarily due to waning vaccine effectiveness rather than the delta variant escaping vaccine protection given that effectiveness against delta variant infections was more than 90% within 1 month of full vaccination, reductions in effectiveness in infections by time since being fully vaccinated were observed irrespective of SARS-CoV-2 variant, and effectiveness against hospital admissions due to the delta variant was very high over the entire study period."

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[chilly07]

Yes probably at around 6mths especially with new variants emerging

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, fvw53 said:

23 hours ago, Mentors65 said:

When will be a booster for the booster available? 

For the flu of the past generations a booster was available every year .....this could be the same for Covid-19

I understand these posts were made before omicron had been declared a 'variant of concern' and big pharma gave themselves a generous 100-days to come up with something to 'beat' it.

 

Watch this space.

[cardinalblue]

There is no requirement for a booster just common sense regardless of type of vaccine…

 

as long as variants exist, a quality booster every six months is the way to go for me….

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 hours ago, mommysboy said:

So, do we ignore the real world studies that show it to be a very effective vaccine over many months in the UK then? 

 

And focus on antibodies, skew the results and declare it bad?

 

This study likely ignores T-Cell and Memory B cell immunity, which is very robust and durable in the vector vaccines.

As I posted elsewhere, the UK study only tracked 3 months out, and likewise found declining levels of effectiveness in preventing infection... although better levels than in the Swedish study. And unfortunately, the UK study from August didn't evaluate protection against COVID hospitalization at all... only infection.

 

Also, the Swedish study wasn't based on measuring antibody levels or anything like that. It was a straightforward comparison of the shares of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people from comparable groups who either did or did not come down with COVID infections at various points post full vaccination.

 

[sawadee1947]

Yes. !!!

[unblocktheplanet]

On 11/27/2021 at 12:05 PM, JustAnotherHun said:

Read the new Swedish study...

This is a seriously scary outcome!

[ade591]

Just had my Pfizer booster in UK, 6 months after 2nd AZ jab. 

[StayinThailand2much]

On 11/27/2021 at 12:46 PM, DavisH said:

Now to see what omicron does. 

Following the news, everyone seems to be scared of it, but nobody really knows why... If it is as bad as some say, then current vaccines won't be any good. Fortunately companies can 'tweek' the vaccines within "100 days".

 

Sadly, it feels a bit like spring 2020 again...

Edited November 28, 2021 by StayinThailand2much

[sirineou]

if the studies that indicate that the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated. I think 95%. then even if the effectiveness of the first two shots declines after six months it must still offer a good level of protection because most vaccinated people have not received their booster shots yet but we still dont see many of them in the hospitalization/death statistics.

Even so. 

Both me and my wife  will be getting our Moderna booster this Thursday.

[Sheryl]

29 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Following the news, everyone seems to be scared of it, but nobody really knows why... If it is as bad as some say, then current vaccines won't be any good.

Nobody knows how "bad" it is. All that is known at this point is that it is highly infectious.

 

No info yet on how likely it is to cause severe disease, either in vaccinated or unvaccinated people, and no info yet as to whether vaccinated people will fare better in that regard.  The variant developed in a region with very low vaccination coverage so we can hope -- but not be sure - that existing vaccines will provide protection against at least severe disease. (Assuming the variant proves capable of causing severe disease, not yet established)

 

These things will not be knowable until there are tens of thousands of identified cases.

 

The mad scramble to close borders etc is because governments know that if they wait until such information is available it will be way too late to keep the variant out.

 

Sadly it is already too late for many countries. It is almost surely already present throughout Europe and also in China (given presence in Hong Kong). At least 50% odds of already being in SE Asia (my guesstimate).

 

Possible Australia and New Zealand, being islands which pretty well sealed themselves off, may be able to escape it (but at the cost of keeping borders shut) but other than these 2 and some Pacific islands I would say the chances of keeping it out anywhere are very slim. However border closures may slow down the rate of spread in some  countries (as it did for Delta in Thailand) and that may be helpful in giving governments a little breathing space in which to think through their next moves.

[StayinThailand2much]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Possible Australia and New Zealand, being islands which pretty well sealed themselves off (...)

Too late! Two travellers already tested posititive in NSW for the Omicron strain.

 

On the bright side, I just read that the symptoms of that strain, at least in South Africa, seem to be 'mild'...

Edited November 28, 2021 by StayinThailand2much

[1FinickyOne]

Get used to it, its going to be a fact of life for a long while, unless the covid wins all first.. 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Too late! Two travellers already tested posititive in NSW for the Omicron strain.

 

On the bright side, I just read that the symptoms of that strain, at least in South Africa, seem to be 'mild'...

 

OK then. It is already everywhere.

 

That is the thing about COVID in all its variants: by the time you know it is anywhere, it is already everywhere.

 

Precisely because so many cases are mild or aymptomatic.

 

It is too soon to draw conclusions about the new strain in terms of mildness vs severeity,. Even with the original strain, it took high prevalence before severe cases became evident.  Also, it may be that most of the people thus far infected had some immunity either from vaccination or infection and that it will be more serious in non-immune populations. Time will tell.

 

If it truly is universally mild, like a common cold, it may actually be a blessing in disguise. But too soon to say.

[DavisH]

2 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Too late! Two travellers already tested posititive in NSW for the Omicron strain.

 

On the bright side, I just read that the symptoms of that strain, at least in South Africa, seem to be 'mild'...

It appears to be mild among those vaccinated, but another doctor there is reporting severe cases among those unvaccinated/partially vaccinated (I think in Soweto, that has low vaccination rates). 

Edited November 28, 2021 by DavisH

[JustAnotherHun]

26 minutes ago, DavisH said:

It appears to be mild among those vaccinated, but another doctor there is reporting severe cases among those unvaccinated/partially vaccinated (I think in Soweto, that has low vaccination rates). 

As Sheryl wrote, right now everything about the new strain is just speculation. It's too early to have reliable information.

South Africa at all has a low vaxx rate.

[fvw53]

On 11/27/2021 at 2:23 PM, Chris.B said:

Later is now...

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/bangkok/bang-sue-grand-station-to-use-only-pfizer-and-moderna-vaccine

 

 

yes but this is for people who got a Chinese vaccine + AZ and not for people like me with 2 times AZ

[NanLaew]

15 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The variant developed in a region with very low vaccination coverage so we can hope -- but not be sure - that existing vaccines will provide protection against at least severe disease.

My understanding is that the unvaccinated provinces are where more dangerous variants that haven't had to mutate to defeat the current vaccines can develop. They've mutated unchallenged 'in the wild' and thus present a higher chance of being unaffected by the antibodies created either by being infected by delta or vaccinated with the current vaccines. This was the grounds for WHO's Director saying many months ago that basically 'nobody is safe until everyone is safe' and more recent censure about vaccine hoarding by certain nations. The COVAX initiative doesn't seem to get much bandwidth either.

[digger70]

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Are you sure this was for people who had 2 doses AZ already and mot those who had Sinovac?

100% sure for AZ 

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

@Sheryl From a Reuters interview yesterday with Dr. Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Association who is also a practising physician:

 

Quote

Coetzee said a patient on Nov. 18 reported at her clinic being "extremely fatigued" for two days with body aches and headache.

 

"Symptoms at that stage was very much related to normal viral infection. And because we haven't seen COVID-19 for the past eight to 10 weeks, we decided to test," she said, adding that the patient and his family turned out to be positive.

 

On the same day, more patients came in with similar symptoms, which was when she realised there was "something else going on." Since then, she's seen two to three patients a day.

Quote

Coetzee, who is also on the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Vaccines, said unlike the Delta so far patients have not reported loss of smell or taste and there has been no major drop in oxygen levels with the new variant.

 

Her experience so far has been that the variant is affecting people who are 40 or younger. Almost half of the patients with Omicron symptoms that she treated were not vaccinated.

 

"The most predominant clinical complaint is severe fatigue for one or two days. With them, the headache and the body aches and pain."

 

More at news link:

S.African doctor says patients with Omicron variant have "very mild" symptoms

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Kaoboi Bebobp