Siriraj Hospital cautions against renewed Covid outbreaks in December after resurgence in Europe

[Bkktodd]

3 hours ago, Almer said:

The agenda may be, vaccinated we will try and help you, unvaccinated, ha ha you are on your own.

If an UNvaccinated ( by choice because of infringement of freedom bs or conspiracy monger) so be it….you are are your own. I get infuriated that i got 3 Pfizers jabs, take all precautions possible, pass muster to arrive Thailand 3 times (with a number of quarantines and tests ) whilst an UNVACCINATED expats( never covid tested) selfishly uses the condo pool , gym and lift with glee.  90 day report should include a vaccination card. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Prasit conveniently avoids mentioning that most other nations have used vaccines with far higher efficacy rates. 

 

 

I was going to say... this guy really knows how to turn a national embarrassment into a positive:

 

He says -  yes, Thailand was ahead of many other nations in launching a third shot booster campaign (for its medical workers).

 

What he doesn't say -- and the reason we HAD to do that was because we had given them all less effective Sinovac vaccine from China not used in major western countries, and to our surprise, they kept getting sick and some dying from COVID...

 

Who would have guessed!!!

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hundreds-thai-medical-workers-infected-despite-sinovac-vaccinations-2021-07-11/

 

Hundreds of Thai medical workers infected despite Sinovac vaccinations

 

BANGKOK, July 11 (Reuters) - Thailand's health ministry said on Sunday more than 600 medical workers who received two doses of China's Sinovac vaccine (SVA.O) have been infected with COVID-19, as authorities weigh giving booster doses to raise immunity.

 

Of the 677,348 medical personnel who received two doses of Sinovac, 618 became infected, health ministry data from April to July showed. A nurse has died and another medical worker is in critical condition.

 

An expert panel has recommended a third dose to trigger immunity for medical workers who are at risk, senior health official Sopon Iamsirithawon, told a news briefing on Sunday.

 

[puck2]

3 hours ago, Clarkey611 said:

He forgot to mention that the real reason they started to rise was that most people have not had their first vaccine yet.

..... or quality vaccine!

[puck2]

49 minutes ago, Bkktodd said:

If an UNvaccinated ( by choice because of infringement of freedom bs or conspiracy monger) so be it….you are are your own. I get infuriated that i got 3 Pfizers jabs, take all precautions possible, pass muster to arrive Thailand 3 times (with a number of quarantines and tests ) whilst an UNVACCINATED expats( never covid tested) selfishly uses the condo pool , gym and lift with glee.  90 day report should include a vaccination card. 

You forgot to say: if you have been able to receive an injection!

Therefore: it's bureaocratic nonsense, the same as the 90-day-reporting itself.

[FridgeMagnet1]

26 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I was going to say... this guy really knows how to turn a national embarrassment into a positive:

 

He says -  yes, Thailand was ahead of many other nations in launching a third shot booster campaign (for its medical workers).

 

What he doesn't say -- and the reason we HAD to do that was because we had given them all less effective Sinovac vaccine from China that haven't been approved in the west, and to our surprise, they kept getting sick and some dying from COVID...

 

Who would have guessed!!!

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hundreds-thai-medical-workers-infected-despite-sinovac-vaccinations-2021-07-11/

 

Hundreds of Thai medical workers infected despite Sinovac vaccinations

 

BANGKOK, July 11 (Reuters) - Thailand's health ministry said on Sunday more than 600 medical workers who received two doses of China's Sinovac vaccine (SVA.O) have been infected with COVID-19, as authorities weigh giving booster doses to raise immunity.

 

Of the 677,348 medical personnel who received two doses of Sinovac, 618 became infected, health ministry data from April to July showed. A nurse has died and another medical worker is in critical condition.

 

An expert panel has recommended a third dose to trigger immunity for medical workers who are at risk, senior health official Sopon Iamsirithawon, told a news briefing on Sunday.

 

Right, we are 19 months into this pandemic and you still dont understand that vaccines are there to prevent serious illness and death?

 

seriously?

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 minutes ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

Right, we are 19 months into this pandemic and you still dont understand that vaccines are there to prevent serious illness and death?

 

seriously?

 

 

 Two comments:

 

1. As the Reuters report above shows, the Sinovac vaccine didn't do a great job at preventing illness and death among vaccinated Thai medical workers. That's why, early on, the government moved to begin giving non Sinovac booster doses.

 

2. While it's certainly true ONE goal of vaccination is to prevent illness and death, the vaccines also are SUPPOSED to prevent or help prevent people from catching the virus in the first place. Because, if they don't catch it, they can't spread it to others.

 

And the truth is, right now, even with Delta, the mRNA vaccines like Moderna and Pfizer start out with 90%+ protection in preventing infection. The problem is, recent studies are showing that infection protection tends to decline markedly after 4 - 6 months or more -- even while the protection against serious illness and death remains relatively high.

 

 

[Dont confuse me]

7 hours ago, Enoon said:

The UK:

 

OH MY GOD!.......

 

 

......erm, hang on though......

 

 

 

.......and by the way......

 

 

PS

 

17hrs ago:

Omicron has caused panic, but no reported deaths yet - AFR

"Omicron has been circulating in southern regions of Africa for most of November and although it looks ominous and has jumped continents, there have been no official reports of deaths yet."

 

 

 

 

Could it be that the death rate is down because the initial covid-19 killed off the most vulnerable people?

[FridgeMagnet1]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 Two comments:

 

1. As the Reuters report above shows, the Sinovac vaccine didn't do a great job at preventing illness and death among vaccinated Thai medical workers. That's why, early on, the government moved to begin giving non Sinovac booster doses.

 

 

 One nurse died

 

1 Out of how many?

 

”not a great job?”

[VBF]

6 hours ago, Almer said:

The agenda may be, vaccinated we will try and help you, unvaccinated, ha ha you are on your own.

And if it is, I for one have no problem with that.

Those who choose to remain unvaccinated don't (IMO) die of Covid; rather they die of terminal stupidity.

The unvaccinated for whom I have sympathy are those who either cannot get vaccinated or even more, those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. 

[VBF]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 Two comments:

 

1. As the Reuters report above shows, the Sinovac vaccine didn't do a great job at preventing illness and death among vaccinated Thai medical workers. That's why, early on, the government moved to begin giving non Sinovac booster doses.

 

2. While it's certainly true ONE goal of vaccination is to prevent illness and death, the vaccines also are SUPPOSED to prevent or help prevent people from catching the virus in the first place. Because, if they don't catch it, they can't spread it to others.

 

And the truth is, right now, even with Delta, the mRNA vaccines like Moderna and Pfizer start out with 90%+ protection in preventing infection. The problem is, recent studies are showing that infection protection tends to decline markedly after 4 - 6 months or more -- even while the protection against serious illness and death remains relatively high.

 

 

to address your comments:

 

1 Agree...but something is better than nothing

2 Agree - no buts

 

And that's why in well-organised areas we're lucky enough to be getting boosters, which IMO will turn out to be an annual event.

[Almer]

3 hours ago, Bkktodd said:

If an UNvaccinated ( by choice because of infringement of freedom bs or conspiracy monger) so be it….you are are your own. I get infuriated that i got 3 Pfizers jabs, take all precautions possible, pass muster to arrive Thailand 3 times (with a number of quarantines and tests ) whilst an UNVACCINATED expats( never covid tested) selfishly uses the condo pool , gym and lift with glee.  90 day report should include a vaccination card. 

Agreed agreed agreed

[Almer]

11 minutes ago, VBF said:

And if it is, I for one have no problem with that.

Those who choose to remain unvaccinated don't (IMO) die of Covid; rather they die of terminal stupidity.

The unvaccinated for whom I have sympathy are those who either cannot get vaccinated or even more, those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. 

Agreed 100%, i have an acquaintance   in Hua Hin who refused all attempts to have a jab, runs a small Guest house and lets all be known this is a world government scam to impregnate all and sundry with whatever, complete head case but runs his guest house with small bar and dining room, uncaccinated

Edited November 29, 2021 by Almer
Spelling

[Bkktodd]

4 hours ago, puck2 said:

You forgot to say: if you have been able to receive an injection!

Therefore: it's bureaocratic nonsense, the same as the 90-day-reporting itself.

I didnt forget…my mate in Pattaya had 3 different hospitals given out vaccines as a choice. If you want it you can get it. I take issue with those dont want it and refuse it . Will they pay my bills of i get sick ?  

[connda]

Shut the borders and lock everyone down.  That will take care of it.

[bangon04]

The continuing media frenzy surrounding "case" numbers and "infection rates" is an ongoing unhelpful melodrama.

 

If you test more, you will find more.  The true measure is keeping people alive and healthy.

[moe666]

11 hours ago, raccos21 said:

Actually, a lot of people are tired of all these discussions regarding Covid variants, vaccinations and travel restrictions.

The best thing to do is to just ignore it and do your everday routine as usual.

Just watch what happens instead of just debating about it, since we're all ordinary people with apparently no status.

People need to stay away from big crowds. I have wondered a few times if there are any people planning for the future of on going covid. I would think that there is a bunch of hotshots some where planning how life will be living with covid. Let us know when you get it figured out.

[spidermike007]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I was going to say... this guy really knows how to turn a national embarrassment into a positive:

 

He says -  yes, Thailand was ahead of many other nations in launching a third shot booster campaign (for its medical workers).

 

What he doesn't say -- and the reason we HAD to do that was because we had given them all less effective Sinovac vaccine from China not used in major western countries, and to our surprise, they kept getting sick and some dying from COVID...

 

Who would have guessed!!!

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hundreds-thai-medical-workers-infected-despite-sinovac-vaccinations-2021-07-11/

 

Hundreds of Thai medical workers infected despite Sinovac vaccinations

 

BANGKOK, July 11 (Reuters) - Thailand's health ministry said on Sunday more than 600 medical workers who received two doses of China's Sinovac vaccine (SVA.O) have been infected with COVID-19, as authorities weigh giving booster doses to raise immunity.

 

Of the 677,348 medical personnel who received two doses of Sinovac, 618 became infected, health ministry data from April to July showed. A nurse has died and another medical worker is in critical condition.

 

An expert panel has recommended a third dose to trigger immunity for medical workers who are at risk, senior health official Sopon Iamsirithawon, told a news briefing on Sunday.

 

Anything, absolutely anything to avoid facing truth, facts and admission of a historic and monumental mistake. 

[jerrymahoney]

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

1. As the Reuters report above shows, the Sinovac vaccine didn't do a great job at preventing illness and death among vaccinated Thai medical workers. That's why, early on, the government moved to begin giving non Sinovac booster doses of

Less than 1% of medical workers -- frontline or otherwise  -- who received the 2 SInovac shots became infected and you say that wasn't a great job? And April to July covers the Delta cases first reported in Bangkok MAY 2021.

 

< The 618 cases were among the 677,348 medical staff who had received two doses of the Chinese-developed coronavirus vaccine between April to July, government data show. Among those infected are a nurse who died and a health-care worker in critical condition.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/07/12/coronavirus-latest-updates/

[unblocktheplanet]

On 11/29/2021 at 7:41 AM, jacko45k said:

The UK does 1 mil tests a day. 

As should Thailand! Fighter jets more important than widespread testing.

 

When govt opened, everyone breathed a sigh of relief & started to go about their normal business. Back to the office, full roads & malls & transport.

 

Nothing to do with cooler weather here. Covid spreads by movement & groups indoors. We all want our lives back but let's exercise some caution and stay at home as much as possible.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Less than 1% of medical workers -- frontline or otherwise  -- who received the 2 SInovac shots became infected and you say that wasn't a great job? And April to July covers the Delta cases first reported in Bangkok MAY 2021.

 

< The 618 cases were among the 677,348 medical staff who had received two doses of the Chinese-developed coronavirus vaccine between April to July, government data show. Among those infected are a nurse who died and a health-care worker in critical condition.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/07/12/coronavirus-latest-updates/

 

You seem to be assuming that those 600+ cases announced by the government were the ENTIRETY of all the double Sinovac doses medical workers who became infected, and that the entire population was in fact tested.

 

I don't believe that was the case. It was just a snapshot of info and details announced by the government at one point time, not necessarily a complete accounting.

 

But either way, the government's actions then and now tell the story. When the medical workers began coming down with COVID and getting ill and in some cases dying, the government didn't opt to do a booster campaign of more Sinovac doses. They consciously chose to do booster doses of AZ and Pfizer.

 

And, now as of this month, they seem to have pivoted again toward having Pfizer and Moderna doses be among the main doses available to the public for the currently unvaccinated -- not Sinovac as the general rule.

 

So the truth is, it only took them almost ONE year after the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were approved by the U.S. and the WHO -- whose data clearly showed them as being the most effective -- before the Thai government was pulled kicking and screaming into finally making those two among the mainstay vaccines for the country.

 

[gearbox]

On 11/29/2021 at 1:43 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 Two comments:

 

1. As the Reuters report above shows, the Sinovac vaccine didn't do a great job at preventing illness and death among vaccinated Thai medical workers. That's why, early on, the government moved to begin giving non Sinovac booster doses.

 

2. While it's certainly true ONE goal of vaccination is to prevent illness and death, the vaccines also are SUPPOSED to prevent or help prevent people from catching the virus in the first place. Because, if they don't catch it, they can't spread it to others.

 

And the truth is, right now, even with Delta, the mRNA vaccines like Moderna and Pfizer start out with 90%+ protection in preventing infection. The problem is, recent studies are showing that infection protection tends to decline markedly after 4 - 6 months or more -- even while the protection against serious illness and death remains relatively high.

 

 

So what's the explanation then for the low number of cases and deaths in countries like UAE, Cambodia, Uruguay etc which used large quantities of Chinese vaccines for their vaccination campaign? Even the Thai numbers look very good in comparison to the numbers in Europe, shouldn't be the country falling apart now?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, gearbox said:

So what's the explanation then for the low number of cases and deaths in countries like UAE, Cambodia, Uruguay etc which used large quantities of Chinese vaccines for their vaccination campaign? Even the Thai numbers look very good in comparison to the numbers in Europe, shouldn't be the country falling apart now?

 

I've never said, and the available facts don't support the notion, that the Sinovac vaccine doesn't work at all.

 

All I've said, and still say, is the available scientific evidence and research all along has showed that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines do a BETTER job than Sinovac at both preventing infections and preventing serious COVID illness and death. And similarly, that the two mRNA vaccines also perform better than the AstraZeneca vaccine, which also outperforms Sinovac.

 

If folks are going to get vaccinated for COVID, which they definitely should, I think most people would reasonably want the best available protection/vaccine they can get!

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[overherebc]

On 11/29/2021 at 9:54 AM, Tonypandy said:

Is it vaxxed or unvaxxed that have been found with this omnicron varient todate? 

From what I've heard on the news the african countries have a fairly low vaccination rate so it is likely to be the unvaccinated catching and spreading it.  However it 'appears' there have been no deaths caused by it.

Ref' cases in europe vax or not vax hasn't been made clear in the news I've seen/heard.

Edited November 30, 2021 by overherebc

[FridgeMagnet1]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You seem to be assuming that those 600+ cases announced by the government were the ENTIRETY of all the double Sinovac doses medical workers who became infected, and that the entire population was in fact tested.

 

I don't believe that was the case. It was just a snapshot of info and details announced by the government at one point time, not necessarily a complete accounting.

 

But either way, the government's actions then and now tell the story. When the medical workers began coming down with COVID and getting ill and in some cases dying, the government didn't opt to do a booster campaign of more Sinovac doses. They consciously chose to do booster doses of AZ and Pfizer.

 

And, now as of this month, they seem to have pivoted again toward having Pfizer and Moderna doses be among the main doses available to the public for the currently unvaccinated -- not Sinovac as the general rule.

 

So the truth is, it only took them almost ONE year after the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were approved by the U.S. and the WHO -- whose data clearly showed them as being the most effective -- before the Thai government was pulled kicking and screaming into finally making those two among the mainstay vaccines for the country.

 

So you are choosing to believe your own make believe figures, rather than the official statistics. 
 

you understand you can prove literally anything with completely made up facts?

Edited November 30, 2021 by FridgeMagnet1

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

There are numerous study and trial reports that have been published assessing various vaccine efficacy rates in different places at different points in time. There also is the efficacy data that the WHO listed for each vaccine when they won WHO initial approval.

 

By and large, the available data shows that Moderna generally has the highest efficacy rates, followed by Pfizer, then AZ, followed by Sinopharm and Sinovac. Although, there's very limited data on how Sinovac fares against the Delta variant specifically, because the manufacturer has not released any broad data re Delta efficacy that could be peer reviewed.

 

The well-respected Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington has tracked all the available data on the various vaccines, and compiled a composite estimate of the efficacy rates for the various vaccines, as follows:

 

http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary

 

 

Swedish researchers just last month published a study on the efficacy of the Moderna, Pfizer and AZ vaccines used in their country during 2021 against symptomatic infection that had the same efficacy ranking for those top 3: Moderna, then Pfizer, then AZ.

 

 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410

 

 

And then the WHO's original findings on Sinovac in mid 2021, which was based on prior clinical trial data that predated the emergence of the Delta variant, and also didn't cover many elderly participants, which limited the value of the data:

 

 

https://www.who.int/news/item/01-06-2021-who-validates-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-for-emergency-use-and-issues-interim-policy-recommendations

 

Translation: because the clinical trial data for Sinovac showed such a poor overall efficacy in preventing symptomatic infection, the WHO accepted and re-reported their 100% rate against hospitalization, even while admitting the trials involved had "few" elderly participants, the group most likely to suffer severe COVID illness!

 

[jerrymahoney]

What's the difference whether Pfizer, Moderna, or others are preferable to Sinovac when Sinovac was available and Pfizer, etc. were not:

 

The majority of the world is still unvaccinated and global leaders have yet to take action. High-income countries have ta 2021ken upwards of 80% of the world’s COVID-19 vaccine doses ...

 

21 JULY 2021

 

https://www.citizen.org/stopplayinggames/

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[Tonypandy]

19 hours ago, overherebc said:

From what I've heard on the news the african countries have a fairly low vaccination rate so it is likely to be the unvaccinated catching and spreading it.  However it 'appears' there have been no deaths caused by it.

Ref' cases in europe vax or not vax hasn't been made clear in the news I've seen/heard.

Omnicron apparently started in Africa, the countries where cases found, Belgium, HK you need to be fully vaxxed to enter. Not. Difficult to work out 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

What's the difference whether Pfizer, Moderna, or others are preferable to Sinovac when Sinovac was available and Pfizer, etc. were not:

Indeed, that should have been the message for the Thai govt when it came to acquiring better vaccines -- Stop Playing Games.

 

For months, the government deliberately blocked and impeded private hospitals here from acquiring mRNA vaccines that they could have acquired. And similarly, the government was slow to pursue mRNA vaccines themselves...

 

Who knows why?  Because they would be imported not domestic?  Because they didn't understand or trust the new technology? Because the mRNA acquisitions were gonna step on the local AZ franchise with major mojo? Because the mRNA vaccines were gonna cost more?  Because they preferred to cast their lot with brother China? All of the above?

 

Bottom line is....mRNA vaccines for Thai people didn't start arriving here in quantity until nearly a year after they were first approved elsewhere, and that initially was because of the U.S. government's initial 1 mn+ dose donation of the Pfizer vaccine, and later the private hospitals' Moderna purchase that the government was finally shamed into accepting...

 

They could have done better, but they didn't.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jerrymahoney]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Who knows why? 

And maybe because they read the contract being offered by Pfizer as of late last year and said NUTS!

 

In secret vaccine contracts with governments, Pfizer took hard line in push for profit, report says

October 19, 2021 at 12:08 p.m. EDT
 

But the rapid proliferation of the vaccine, under contracts negotiated between the company and governments, has unfolded behind a veil of strict secrecy, allowing for little public scrutiny of Pfizer’s burgeoning power, even as demand surges amid new negotiations for one of the world’s most sought-after products.

 

A report released Tuesday by Public Citizen, a consumer rights advocacy group that gained access to a number of leaked, unredacted Pfizer contracts, sheds light on how the company uses that power to “shift risk and maximize profits,” the organization argues.

 

Suerie Moon, co-director of the global health center at the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva, said that restrictions on donations were “appalling” and “counter to the goal of getting vaccines as quickly as possible to those who need them.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/19/secret-vaccine-contracts-with-governments-pfizer-took-hard-line-push-profit-report-says/

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Thai govt diddled in declining to support a 1.5 million dose Moderna vaccine donation from Poland as well....

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thammasat-abandons-plan-to-get-1-5m-doses-of-donated-vaccine-from-poland/

 

The Thammasat University field hospital has abandoned its plan to accept a donation of 1.5 million doses of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine from Poland. The university has failed to obtain an official letter, from the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, confirming its status as the Thai government’s official representative for receipt of the vaccine donation.

 

The field hospital said in its update yesterday (Monday) that it had made all the preparations to facilitate the delivery of the vaccine from Poland, including logistic expenses, such as booking a flight from Poland on October 28^th, freight, insurance and storage, as required by the donor, which also requires a formal confirmation from a Thai government agency that Thammasat University is the official representative for the receipt of the vaccine.

 

The hospital said that it had contacted the Thai Foreign Ministry in Bangkok, requesting a formal letter to confirm its status... The ministry informed the hospital that, in accordance with regulations announced in the Royal Gazette, the hospital could proceed with the case on its own and should consult with the Disease Control Department directly.