SURVEY: Omicron--Dangerous, Worrisome or Overblown?

[Oblomov]

13 hours ago, mommysboy said:

It's always been the way that these types of respiratory viruses come and go, sooner or later for a variety of reasons including mutation to a weaker form and viral interference.

 

The biggest problem imo is rank unfitness in much of the population (prime examples UK/USA) together with immune naivety.

You hit the nail on the head there - obesity related complications and general lack of fitness make an unremarkable virus potentially lethal for those that don't make an effort at fitness assuming that are not too old or physically unable to do so. 

 

There's definitely an incipient  move in UK to tackle obesity and fitness issues but it's not enough and it's too late for many, and doesn't seem to matter to some until they get ill. 

 

I'm always shocked at the growing obesity in Thai school age children and I read that diabetes is on the rise in Thailand as fast as the junk food that  is colonizing the malls.

 

Someone will be a  smoker, eat rubbish, 20 + kgs overweight and seem to have no desire to improve his/her chances by addressing any of those things. 

[Oblomov]

2 hours ago, Scott said:

I think a few posters are missing a point about the virus.  If a variant is highly transmissible even if it has a low mortality rate, it can be a major problem.  If it effects larger numbers of people more easily, a certain number of those people are still going to be unable to mount enough of an immune defense to fight the virus.  

 

If more people get it, then it is likely that more people will die although the percentage of deaths may drop.   The same is true of severe illness and hospitalizations.  Each day, people will be a little older and starting to cross into the elderly category and new cases of immuno-compromising will crop up leaving new people at risk.

 

We also have to keep in mind that medical personnel have a much better idea of what works and what doesn't than they did earlier in the pandemic.  Hopefully, the antiviral medications will start to be widely available and further lower the strain on medical facilities. 

If a highly transmissible variant with a low mortality rate did become dominant, wouldn't it leave the natural anti-bodies in the vast majority that recovered? This night be the only real solution assuming that those that are aged or have compromised immunity from such things as cancer treatments could be effectively shielded or immune systems boosted by vaccines sufficiently.

 

I think most understand it's the sudden exponential increase in infections that is the issue for hospitals and their admissions and from first hand knowledge, I know how hospitals can soon lose the ability to effectively deal with their core function of treating multiple and complex conditions in a wide range of departments. 

 

Overall fitness is also compromised by obesity and poor diet and in my opinion, not enough is done to encourage a better natural immune response to any virus of this type by taking a more responsible to one's own health, though I discern an incipient improvement in that.

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Oblomov said:

If a highly transmissible variant with a low mortality rate did become dominant, wouldn't it leave the natural anti-bodies in the vast majority that recovered? This night be the only real solution assuming that those that are aged or have compromised immunity from such things as cancer treatments could be effectively shielded or immune systems boosted by vaccines sufficiently.

 

I think most understand it's the sudden exponential increase in infections that is the issue for hospitals and their admissions and from first hand knowledge, I know how hospitals can soon lose the ability to effectively deal with their core function of treating multiple and complex conditions in a wide range of departments. 

 

Overall fitness is also compromised by obesity and poor diet and in my opinion, not enough is done to encourage a better natural immune response to any virus of this type by taking a more responsible to one's own health, though I discern an incipient improvement in that.

What you say has a great deal of merit and we can certainly hope that in the case of a widespread, uncontrolled spread of the virus that we end up with broad immunity.   I am skeptical that will happen in the short-term. 

 

Immunity seems to be fleeting with both vaccines and natural immunity.  Maybe that will change with this variant but again, I am skeptical.   I also hope I am wrong.

The idea of going to greater extents to shield the immunocompromised, elderly, and those with conditions that make them high risk has been floated around.  I find it a little disconcerting that people who will not get vaccinated and won't wear masks should have their 'rights' respected but everyone else should be limited in what they can do.  

 

 

[Oblomov]

8 minutes ago, Scott said:

What you say has a great deal of merit and we can certainly hope that in the case of a widespread, uncontrolled spread of the virus that we end up with broad immunity.   I am skeptical that will happen in the short-term. 

 

Immunity seems to be fleeting with both vaccines and natural immunity.  Maybe that will change with this variant but again, I am skeptical.   I also hope I am wrong.

The idea of going to greater extents to shield the immunocompromised, elderly, and those with conditions that make them high risk has been floated around.  I find it a little disconcerting that people who will not get vaccinated and won't wear masks should have their 'rights' respected but everyone else should be limited in what they can do.  

 

 

I don't believe I suggested the immunity would have any great longevity, as immunity wanes whether acquired by natural means or vaccination, but it could be breathing space in which to make planned next steps rather than all this lurching by nations between panic and relative complacency. The world can't function in this way for much longer with the strain on people's lives and ruptures to  livelihoods, educations etc ..

 

One thing is for sure, there will be extremely bad outcomes from enforced vaccination and I wouldn't want this division deepened for all our sakes.

 

By shielding the elderly and those that for whatever reason, are most vulnerable, I simply mean giving them the option of the best that medicine can do for them under the circumstances, which at the moment is only a booster of a vaccine that is not entirely designed for the latest variant. Vaccines will never wholly keep up with a mutating virus just as the seasonal flu vaccines is often tweaked in anticipation of mutations.

 

Of course there's barely a person on the planet who actually knows how this will turn out and I don't pretend to know myself but what I wrote was a hope and you have the right to be sceptical, just as others are sceptical of other mindsets. I do feel that individuals can give themselves better chances by better habits associated with health and obesity.

 

It would be interesting as theory was it not for the fact that it is so real for all of us in so many ways. I read a book at least 10  years ago about this present virus and other pathogens (25 known pathogens I think)  that seek only human encroachment into habitats to bridge to humans. It's a pity many weren't so diligent about preventing these things rather than this rather hopeless and futile attempt to contain the outbreaks. 

[rabang]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:11 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Follow these guys.  Lots of good info if you read their Tweets.

 

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch

 

 

Feigl-Ding is selling panic to the people and you fall for it? He is an alarmist par excellence and you are calling these people worth of following? I have no words but now I fully understand your position when calling other people who are not agreeing with you as covid deniers and will disreagard your posts completely.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Airalee said:

The unvaccinated are most likely the young.  They’re needed to cook, clean, etc. for the old vaccinated folks.  They need to work also in order to pay taxes that support the pensions and healthcare of old vaccinated pensioners.   It would probably be easier (and safer) to lock up all older people (to keep them safe).  More cost effective too as many are already on their way to the retirement home.

That's what I said right at the start- isolate the actually vulnerable, and the rest of us carry on as normal.

I believe that is what Sweden tried to do, except they apparently didn't do a good job isolating the elderly.

 

IMO the unintended consequences of extreme lockdowns such as mental health, family violence, suicide, destroyed businesses etc are going to be blighting western society for years if not decades to come. I doubt they ever had a chance of eradicating covid anyway, so was it all a dead end policy?

[thaibeachlovers]

46 minutes ago, Oblomov said:

One thing is for sure, there will be extremely bad outcomes from enforced vaccination and I wouldn't want this division deepened for all our sakes.

Indeed. In NZ the "team of 5 million" has well and truly been ditched in favour of a policy of penalizing those that do not vaccinate. IMO it's creating a fractured society and storing up anger and even hatred for the future. Forcing those that have real worries about the MRNA vaccine to vaccinate just to have a life is not going to end well, IMO. Had they allowed a choice of more than Pfizer from the start, lMO most would have been vaccinated already.

[thaibeachlovers]

53 minutes ago, Oblomov said:

It's a pity many weren't so diligent about preventing these things rather than this rather hopeless and futile attempt to contain the outbreaks. 

Very well said, but given western politics I doubt it would ever have happened regardless. Now we are going to have to live with the consequences of the "rather hopeless and futile attempt to contain the outbreaks". Can't say I'm positive for the future. If it were not covid, it would be the next one, or the one after that.

Given that humans mainly live in toxic cities, and eat bad food, IMO it's always been inevitable that we'd end up in a very bad place- just happened that this one happened now, but I very much doubt it's the last.

[Credo]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's what I said right at the start- isolate the actually vulnerable, and the rest of us carry on as normal.

I believe that is what Sweden tried to do, except they apparently didn't do a good job isolating the elderly.

 

IMO the unintended consequences of extreme lockdowns such as mental health, family violence, suicide, destroyed businesses etc are going to be blighting western society for years if not decades to come. I doubt they ever had a chance of eradicating covid anyway, so was it all a dead end policy?

So here's the problem with that very, very flawed plan, it allows for the isolating of people who may not want to be isolated.  How far do you take it.  Do the people who work in nursing homes also have to be isolated so they don't bring it in?  I just find it amazing that you are so willing to take away the rights of many just to allow the unvaccinated the freedom to continue to spread a virus.   

Funny how rights extend to some but not to all.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Credo said:

So here's the problem with that very, very flawed plan, it allows for the isolating of people who may not want to be isolated.  How far do you take it.  Do the people who work in nursing homes also have to be isolated so they don't bring it in?  I just find it amazing that you are so willing to take away the rights of many just to allow the unvaccinated the freedom to continue to spread a virus.   

Funny how rights extend to some but not to all.

 

55555555

You have missed the glaringly obvious point that I was talking about at the start, as you even quote

"That's what I said right at the start-". LOL.

If you have forgotten, there were no vaccines back then!

 

BTW, I may not have actually said it in the post, but those isolated would have to agree to be, and if they didn't, take their chances like everyone else.

I'm against forcing non criminals into doing things they don't want to. Plenty of posters on here that do, like the poster that wants all the unvaccinated to be locked up.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[Credo]

8 minutes ago, Credo said:

So here's the problem with that very, very flawed plan, it allows for the isolating of people who may not want to be isolated.  How far do you take it.  Do the people who work in nursing homes also have to be isolated so they don't bring it in?  I just find it amazing that you are so willing to take away the rights of many just to allow the unvaccinated the freedom to continue to spread a virus.   

Funny how rights extend to some but not to all.

 

It didn't work then and it won't work now.  That is my point.  

 

[fjb 24]

 

Apparently not terribly troubling.

“a new poll from CBS News and YouGov found that of 1,731 people surveyed, 81 percent said they have not rearranged plans because of the Omicron variant or the hype surrounding it…
Only 17 percent of those surveyed said they were “very concerned about Omicron,” while about 42 percent said they were not concerned at all about Omicron despite the initial media and bureaucracy-induced panic about it.”

As of Dec 10 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that of the 43 people infected with the Omicron strain of COVID, most cases manifested only mild symptoms such as “a cough, fatigue, and congestion or a runny nose.”

[The Cipher]

22 minutes ago, fjb 24 said:

“a new poll from CBS News and YouGov found that of 1,731 people surveyed, 81 percent said they have not rearranged plans because of the Omicron variant or the hype surrounding it…
Only 17 percent of those surveyed said they were “very concerned about Omicron,” while about 42 percent said they were not concerned at all about Omicron despite the initial media and bureaucracy-induced panic about it.”

Thanks for sharing. It's good to see sentiment trending towards ever less concern. 

 

It would've been cool if this poll had been conducted at regular intervals throughout the pandemic so we could examine the evolution of the time series. The article contained an indication that a the pollsters conducted a similar survey in July, but didn't see a quick way to access the data series.

[Oblomov]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Very well said, but given western politics I doubt it would ever have happened regardless. Now we are going to have to live with the consequences of the "rather hopeless and futile attempt to contain the outbreaks". Can't say I'm positive for the future. If it were not covid, it would be the next one, or the one after that.

Given that humans mainly live in toxic cities, and eat bad food, IMO it's always been inevitable that we'd end up in a very bad place- just happened that this one happened now, but I very much doubt it's the last.

Agree with you entirely - Some interesting and alarming studies into all sorts of pathogens and even now, it's simply ignored.

 

You're dead right about toxic cities and bad food - on a micro level, during my 25 or so years of living parts of each year on Bali, I've seen the extraordinary, and highly visible,  wilful destruction of the island and all the beauty it once had. All that money that poured into Bali, extracted by the super wealthy, that could have built sewage treatment plants and sustainable water supplies,... that level of income is unlikely to return so that chance has now gone.

 

As you rightly say, our toxic cities will have all permanently masked up against viruses and poisonous particles at some point in a future that is looking increasingly like a present.

 

Best wishes fellow beach lover

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Oblomov said:

on a micro level, during my 25 or so years of living parts of each year on Bali, I've seen the extraordinary, and highly visible,  wilful destruction of the island and all the beauty it once had.

Sounds like what happened to Samui. Paradise lost to greed.

[Oblomov]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sounds like what happened to Samui. Paradise lost to greed.

Yes sadly - dived there and Koh Phan Ngan and Tao first 25+ years ago but the marine life is so depleted it is sad to dive there now

[Virt]

https://globalnews.ca/video/8449927/covid-19-who-warns-of-dismissing-the-omicron-variant-as-being-mild-calls-for-stronger-measures

 

WHO sounds a bit pessimistic when it comes to Omicron.

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, Virt said:

https://globalnews.ca/video/8449927/covid-19-who-warns-of-dismissing-the-omicron-variant-as-being-mild-calls-for-stronger-measures

 

WHO sounds a bit pessimistic when it comes to Omicron.

Yeah it cuts both ways. When it first appeared and we didn't know about the more mild aspect there was an overblown global panic over something that we just didn't know enough about yet to justify that. Now many people seem to be irrationally amplifying the more mild aspect and I honestly wouldn't be at all surprised if intentional virus spreading parties become a big trend. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jingthing

[Thunglom]

the information on Omicron is suspiciously being dribbled out a bit at a time.

It is a very different new variant and is already the dominant variant in many locations.

 

Third vaccines are only effective for a couple of months - this situation is a lot more serious than people realise - even if t effects are mostly mild, the vast numbers involved and rapidity of transmission (up to R4!!0 will soon take over the planet.

Even if Thailand avoids te main brunt of it, they will feel the effects in further collapse of the tourist industry.

 

there HAS to be a NEW vaccine - and fast!

Edited December 14, 2021 by Thunglom

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

the information on Omicron is suspiciously being dribbled out a bit at a time.

It is a very different new variant and is already the dominant variant in many locations.

 

Third vaccines are only effective for a couple of months - this situation is a lot more serious than people realise - even if t effects are mostly mild, the vast numbers involved and rapidity of transmission (up to R4!!0 will soon take over the planet.

Even if Thailand avoids te main brunt of it, they will feel the effects in further collapse of the tourist industry.

 

there HAS to be a NEW vaccine - and fast!

Everyone in Thailand will be exposed to it like everywhere else. Thailand can slow it down somewhat but they should really be focused on a  more aggressive vaccine program (plus boosters to those in that time frame) to hit 90 percent of the population ASAP.

[Virt]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah it cuts both ways. When it first appeared and we didn't know about the more mild aspect there was an overblown global panic over something that we just didn't know enough about yet to justify that. Now many people seem to be irrationally amplifying the more mild aspect and I honestly wouldn't be at all surprised if intentional virus spreading parties become a big trend. 

Those parties has been around for a long time on closed facebook groups etc.

Some think it's better to get covid the "natural" way.

 

One thing they forget is that unvaccinated people, in general tend to get more sick compared to those that has been vaccinated.

 

Another thing they forget is that an unvaccinated person has a larger chance of getting long covid.

So they might have to deal with long covid for months to come,

and in worst case they never get their taste or smell back.

Not to mention that some end up having permanent damage to their lungs.

 

So i don't know how smart it is to try and get covid the "natural" way.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Virt said:

Those parties has been around for a long time on closed facebook groups etc.

Some think it's better to get covid the "natural" way.

 

One thing they forget is that unvaccinated people, in general tend to get more sick compared to those that has been vaccinated.

 

Another thing they forget is that an unvaccinated person has a larger chance of getting long covid.

So they might have to deal with long covid for months to come,

and in worst case they never get their taste or smell back.

Not to mention that some end up having permanent damage to their lungs.

 

So i don't know how smart it is to try and get covid the "natural" way.

I'm not surprised about that, but surely now they will quite literally spread.

[Thunglom]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Everyone in Thailand will be exposed to it like everywhere else. Thailand can slow it down somewhat but they should really be focused on a  more aggressive vaccine program (plus boosters to those in that time frame) to hit 90 percent of the population ASAP.

What is gradually coming-out now is the ineffectiveness of the current vaccines, even with a booster. There has to be a new vaccine -and then it needs distributing.

Even with 90% of the population vaccinated it looks like that won't be enough.

UK will have just about everyone bolstered *(3rd Jab) by the new year, but they are going to need another vaccine=ation by he beginning of April.

[LA8RAT]

To the op.. 

 

Totally loaded question.. All answer lead to it being a threat. 

[fjb 24]

Although more resistant to the two-dose Pfizer-BioNTech, omicron appears to cause less severe illness than earlier variants of the coronavirus as reported by Discovery Health in South Africa.

I have not seen any death stats for omicron except for the recent death "with" omicron reported in the UK and the WHO (not the band) now warning of a surge in omicron deaths which is spreading at an unprecedented rate.

Edited December 15, 2021 by fjb 24

[BritManToo]

I don't see COVID as a problem for me.

I do see the COVID restrictions as a problem for me.

 

Just another variant of a disease that's unlikely to harm me.

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Virt said:

Those parties has been around for a long time on closed facebook groups etc.

Some think it's better to get covid the "natural" way.

 

One thing they forget is that unvaccinated people, in general tend to get more sick compared to those that has been vaccinated.

 

Another thing they forget is that an unvaccinated person has a larger chance of getting long covid.

So they might have to deal with long covid for months to come,

and in worst case they never get their taste or smell back.

Not to mention that some end up having permanent damage to their lungs.

 

So i don't know how smart it is to try and get covid the "natural" way.

Maybe they're young and healthy and don't see COVID as a problem for them.

[mommysboy]

58 minutes ago, fjb 24 said:

Although more resistant to the two-dose Pfizer-BioNTech, omicron appears to cause less severe illness than earlier variants of the coronavirus as reported by Discovery Health in South Africa.

I have not seen any death stats for omicron except for the recent death "with" omicron reported in the UK and the WHO (not the band) now warning of a surge in omicron deaths which is spreading at an unprecedented rate.

Very confusing media reports, which has been the way whenever something new happens.

 

On the one hand, BBC reports from SA where the variant is described as far less dangerous than delta, whereas public  health experts in UK use soundbites like 'it may be slightly less severe than'.  So who knows!

 

I do think a variant should be assessed based on its ability to cause illness in moderately healthy individuals, and not just in old and already sick people.  Of course, anything is dangerous to the latter. 

 

When public health experts misle the public, then that is a breeding ground for resentment and conspiracy theories.  Why not just tell the truth!- which might include saying we just don't know yet.

 

 

[Virt]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Maybe they're young and healthy and don't see COVID as a problem for them.

That might be right, but why put your self in a situation where you risk ending up having long covid, when that chance can be halved by receiving the vaccine, according to recent studies.

 

Some of them participating in parties like that are not self isolating, while waiting for their test on day 4 and 6, which also is a problem.

I guess some of them have a hard time telling their employer they have to take 7 days of work because they tried to get infected on purpose?

 

Another thing is that young people too end up in hospitals and by getting infected on purpose, they risk becoming hospitalized which could be a huge problem if the hospitals are under pressure in that specific country.

 

Not just for the other covid patients that might need a bed, but also for those other patients that are having their planned surgeries postponed due to hospitals being overburdened.

 

Sorry but i can't find any reasons why it should be a good thing to become infected on purpose no matter what age you are.

 

If we differentiate between COVID variants, then it might be better to get omicron compared to delta, but since no person knows how their body reacts, i still think it's a bad idea to get infected on purpose.

[BritManToo]

42 minutes ago, Virt said:

That might be right, but why put your self in a situation where you risk ending up having long covid, when that chance can be halved by receiving the vaccine, according to recent studies.

I don't believe in 'long COVID'.

IMHO it's a lie to try and frighten the people into mindless compliance.

The only people I know who tested positive for COVID didn't even know they had it.

Edited December 15, 2021 by BritManToo