ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[transam]

Here is an excellent EV video from an obvious expert on repairing and improving EV stuff.

It has shown me that the battery is not the only thing to be concerned about regarding problems.

Watch till the end, there is a lot of information from a guy that earns a living from EV's, he even quotes costs..........????

 

 

[VocalNeal]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

O&A ... 4.5k kms ... ฿4,883

What's O&A????

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

What's O&A????

Out & About

[VocalNeal]

So Out and about costs more or less? Shouldn't that be included in the total  Sorry I just look for the executive summary.

 

I don't go out that much so save my money by not going O&A.

Edited July 30, 2023 by VocalNeal

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

What's O&A????

Out & About / over the road, non local driving requiring use of CSs (Charging Stations).  Although the first & last 250 kms, are charged at home.

 

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

So Out and about costs more or less? Shouldn't that be included in the total  Sorry I just look for the executive summary.

 

I don't go out that much so save my money by not going O&A.

More of course, as home is ฿0 / solar, or if using grid <฿4 for us.

 

Charging stations, as noted above, are ฿7.5, and did include in totals, 2 way, subtracted from petrol cost/savings & total if just doing local driving, using grid.

 

By not going O&A, you would be spared all the negatives the anti EV'ers cry about ... that don't own an EV ????  Along with never having to wait & pay at the petrol station.   As long as you could charge at home.

 

Neta V @ ฿549k

MG EP @ ฿771K

Edited July 30, 2023 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Here is an excellent EV video from an obvious expert on repairing and improving EV stuff.

It has shown me that the battery is not the only thing to be concerned about regarding problems.

Watch till the end, there is a lot of information from a guy that earns a living from EV's, he even quotes costs..........????

 

 

MG and BYD have learned from Tesla's battery issues and have addressed it with their own approach to battery repair/replacement.  MG does replacement by module and BYD do something similar with their blade batteries.  You will probably never need to replace the entire battery pack until end-of-life, probably over 300k kms.

[KhunLA]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

MG and BYD have learned from Tesla's battery issues and have addressed it with their own approach to battery repair/replacement.  MG does replacement by module and BYD do something similar with their blade batteries.  You will probably never need to replace the entire battery pack until end-of-life, probably over 300k kms.

Vid is working on older cars, older tech, and USA labor prices.   So much changes in a year or so.   Did confirm that the Leaf has had some battery issues.  I FF thru most of it, so can't comment too much.  

 

Nice to know 3rd party shops are available though, probably will be here in 5+ years, though think I would stick to the dealers if having an oops.

 

Due to labor cost in USA, I never took mine to a shop or dealer, and why over the years, I learned how to tear 'em apart & put them back 'em back together.  Cost $75-$100 just to drive in and have a mechanic tell you what's wrong it ????

[transam]

30 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

MG and BYD have learned from Tesla's battery issues and have addressed it with their own approach to battery repair/replacement.  MG does replacement by module and BYD do something similar with their blade batteries.  You will probably never need to replace the entire battery pack until end-of-life, probably over 300k kms.

You never watched the vid then......

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

You never watched the vid then......

That's understandable, as it opens w/Calif, USA, and right to some guy & an older Tesla.   Kind of irrelevant for folks living in TH.

 

I'm surprised I even watched the little that I did, only because it wasn't an EV hit piece that so many post, I think.

[JBChiangRai]

31 minutes ago, transam said:

You never watched the vid then......

I watched the first couple of minutes and then dismissed. It as another anti EV rant..

[Madgee]

Just a thought:
My missus has an old Ford Fiesta and at the time and I had an old Suzuki Swift. Both cars were in water (on the drive) up to the door sills but luckily did not flood inside so came out unscathed. Are EV's more likely to suffer flood damage over a comparable ICE vehicle?

[KhunLA]

38 minutes ago, Madgee said:

Just a thought:
My missus has an old Ford Fiesta and at the time and I had an old Suzuki Swift. Both cars were in water (on the drive) up to the door sills but luckily did not flood inside so came out unscathed. Are EV's more likely to suffer flood damage over a comparable ICE vehicle?

Depends on the EV and their IP rating.  I personally won't be driving through any floor board high water, or over low side of rubber tire, no matter who says it's OK to.

 

MG ZS 2022 now has an IP69K rating, (the highest rating) up from previous 67.  Really can't get too much higher, unless straight waterproof/submerged for so long ????

[transam]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

That's understandable, as it opens w/Calif, USA, and right to some guy & an older Tesla.   Kind of irrelevant for folks living in TH.

 

I'm surprised I even watched the little that I did, only because it wasn't an EV hit piece that so many post, I think.

The guy works on, and improves on any brand of EV, did you not know most EV brands can be bought in LOS..........????

Typical, fear of the unknown, Mr.MG......................????

[transam]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

I watched the first couple of minutes and then dismissed. It as another anti EV rant..

There ya go, you dismissed it, typical fear of you might learn something.

 

The video was FAR from an ant-EV rant, it is a learning curve video.

 

You are dismissed, go stand in the corner............................????

[KhunLA]

32 minutes ago, transam said:

The guy works on, and improves on any brand of EV, did you not know most EV brands can be bought in LOS..........????

Typical, fear of the unknown, Mr.MG......................????

No fear, just went with what was available, after a bit of research.  At the time, MG was about the only brand <฿1M, that interest me.   I was actually leaning toward the EP @ ฿771k but wife wasn't having any of it, and glad she didn't, as really liking the ZS.  Shorter length and high seating position is a plus for me.

 

Other brands, after we ordered starting to enter the market, were all a bit new, and no dealer network, with little model track record.  Happy with our choice, and MG Super Chargers may come in handy, once the number of EVs to CS ratio increases.

 

Though by that time, I think we'll be winding down on our O&As.  One more planned next month, then not sure about the remaining months before smog season hits.

 

Think we'll just concentrate on visiting the kid in Krung Thep and knock around there a bit.  Haven't done much up there in a while.  

[Lacessit]

On 7/30/2023 at 9:30 AM, KhunLA said:

Some final thoughts on ICEV vs EV.

Are they for everyone ... NO 

 

Do we love ours ... YES

The operating cost savings and fact we're not contributing to the local air pollution, along with the excellent performance, is well worth the extra ฿200k over the ICEV price, especially considering the added cost of the components.

 

Price 50kWh of quality ESS for a solar system, and ฿200k is a bargain.  Along with a better performing, longer lasting motor, needing minimal maintenance.  More savings.

 

Just the added performance is worth the extra buy in price, as driving is fun again, and not just going from point A - B.

 

Savings if not having solar, are still impressive.

14.5k kms @ 4kWh = ฿7460 vs ฿39,440. 

 

 ฿32,000 / ฿3,500 a month saved, that's a lot of beer.   Put the money in your pocket, or give it to Big Oil.  UP2U

 

Are we saving the planet, no, but it doesn't need saving, humans do.  Are they more eco friendly, probably, BUT, not as long as govt continue to energize the grid with fossil fuels.

 

EVs are not for the impatient folks when out on the road, but how often do most go O&A ?  But for some reason, those same people have no problem waiting around every week to top up the tank at the petrol station & then pay a premium price for that privilege.  Let that sink in, take as long as you need.  Don't hurt yourself.

 

PEACE OUT

 

 

This video explains why EV's are a high fire risk.  And why ICE's with a higher frequency of car fires are a much lower risk proposition in terms of potential damage.

I am wondering when insurance companies are going to realize this risk, and inflate premiums for EV's accordingly.

Some of the footage shown in the video makes me wonder how safe EV owners are in their houses, when they are using home chargers.

I suggest you watch right through with an open mind.

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

This video explains why EV's are a high fire risk.  And why ICE's with a higher frequency of car fires are a much lower risk proposition in terms of potential damage.

I am wondering when insurance companies are going to realize this risk, and inflate premiums for EV's accordingly.

Some of the footage shown in the video makes me wonder how safe EV owners are in their houses, when they are using home chargers.

I suggest you watch right through with an open mind.

 

 

Nonsense

[transam]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Nonsense

You're still hiding then, from the facts......????

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, transam said:

You're still hiding then, from the facts......????

No I just don’t like bigoted scaremongering from ignorant anti-EV’ers

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/10/2022 at 2:39 PM, sezze said:

No , i agree that we all make errors , we are all human . But you are saying:  i did that , but you cannot . People must be able to travel , far or close , that's personal choice . The travel industry does need to adapt also , but saying you can't anymore is a different thing .High speed rail is 1 thing which can already be a big thing , if the price is not more then a plane ticket .

LOL. Travel as we know it is only for the masses since WW2. For the rest of the time humanity has been able to travel internationally for leisure, it's been restricted to rich people.

There is no right to be able to fly.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

No I just don’t like bigoted scaremongering from ignorant anti-EV’ers

Do tell us how many ICE cars just spontaneously burst into flames then.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do tell us how many ICE cars just spontaneously burst into flames then.

Yawn!

 

read the government statistics, between 60 and 130 times more often than EV cars.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

Yawn!

 

read the government statistics, between 60 and 130 times more often than EV cars.

Link? No link it might not be true.

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Link? No link it might not be true.

There is a whole thread on this forum about EV fires with dozens of links, here is just one

 

https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/

[transam]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

No I just don’t like bigoted scaremongering from ignorant anti-EV’ers

It looks like you are the one who is jumping to conclusions over members opinions, just because you cannot deal with points put forward.

Plus, being called ignorant is very funny, as to me, that comment points to you.

Me anti-EV, well no, we will all be driving EV's or similar in the future, that is fact....????

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

It looks like you are the one who is jumping to conclusions over members opinions, just because you cannot deal with points put forward.

Plus, being called ignorant is very funny, as to me, that comment points to you.

Me anti-EV, well no, we will all be driving EV's or similar in the future, that is fact....????

I use the word ignorant, referring to people who are anti-EV whilst ignorant of the experience of driving one

Edited August 3, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

There is a whole thread on this forum about EV fires with dozens of links, here is just one

 

https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/

I asked how many spontaneously burst into flames, not how many fires there were.

 

That's not a government web site and obviously written by a biased person who hates ICEs

 

Next.

 

[KhunLA]

42 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

This video explains why EV's are a high fire risk.  And why ICE's with a higher frequency of car fires are a much lower risk proposition in terms of potential damage.

I am wondering when insurance companies are going to realize this risk, and inflate premiums for EV's accordingly.

Some of the footage shown in the video makes me wonder how safe EV owners are in their houses, when they are using home chargers.

I suggest you watch right through with an open mind.

 

 

Mr Anti EV ... not even worth viewing or commenting on.

 

I'm sure the insurance company's bean counters are hard at work, but realize, in USA anyway, its 25 vs 1500+ / EV vs ICEV fires per 100k incidents.

...nuff said 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

It looks like you are the one who is jumping to conclusions over members opinions, just because you cannot deal with points put forward.

Plus, being called ignorant is very funny, as to me, that comment points to you.

Me anti-EV, well no, we will all be driving EV's or similar in the future, that is fact....????

If car makers wake up we'll be driving hydrogen powered, whether directly in an ICE or by fuel cells in an EV.

IMO battery cars are as dead as Beta VCRs.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I use the word ignorant, referring to people who are anti-EV whilst ignorant of the experience of driving one

Then explain yourself more clearly.................????