Education inequality – The state school teachers’ dilemma

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Why limit the greater knowledge to be gained through the use of technology. Having taught during the technological revolution, while I could tach history by the means you state, I could make history much more interesting for students having today's access to broader resources via computers/internet. I have certainly been impressed with Thailand's wide availability of internet access.

You have a teaching degree?

And have taught in schools in your home country?

Edited January 18, 2022 by BritManToo

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, ikke1959 said:

There is nothing wrong with non native English teachers....It is the whole system that is <deleted>....copy always  passing, don't do anything til you are graduated from the University.. low grades means that you are a bad teacher, so every teacher gves high grades.. Students are not stupid they know... and nobody loose face...because impossible to fail and impossible to have a low grade....That damage the education more than if a non English native teaches... Better a bit English than after 6 years still not knowing the answer on how old are you

After having taught US middle school, high school and undergraduate students for 41 years, I just make the observation that Thailand is not alone in this regard. It was rare but I recall having a Pricipal (my boss, if you will) explain how it was best not to hold back a failing student with a class of younger students. Another Principal who, bending to parental pressure suggested I change a student's grade ... I replied he was the Principal and if he wished, he could change the grade that I had fairly determined. Later, incoming undergraduate student, fresh out of high school were asked to evaluate our teaching, which was figured into pay raises ... no pressure there to inflate grades?! I loved teaching students to better understand the world around them but ... teaching will, at times, break your heart.

[wwest5829]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You have a teaching degree?

And have taught in schools in your home country?

Yes and taught 41 years in US. Middle school, high school, undergraduate required history survey courses.

[pops1]

Here's an idea, why don't you look into the endemic corruption in the schools? Not only do school directors syphon off government funds, oh no! That isn't enough they also extort the students out of cash for new roofs not forgetting the iep ip and god knows what else programs that are terrible. Then there's cash for places and grades as well as the Thai teachers that never turn up for their classes I could go on but I shall stop ranting now. You will not solve anything without the will to do so  

[Stoker58]

 In my experience, school teachers in rural Thailand simply can not speak English. If they can’t speak it they can’t teach it.

Before complaining about anything else they should put some effort into learning it themselves. English fluency is the key that opens the door to world wide knowledge.

[Stoker58]

 My wife has two young grandchildren. Although Buddhist, they attend what’s considered to be quite a good school run by Thai Christian nuns. Literally all they ever do is stare at their phone screens all day. No one apart from me sees this as being a problem. I doubt if they know what a book or a football looks like.

[tonypattaya]

Half the school time is spent learning about Buddha and worshipping the king. 

 

[Harveyboy]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

So why does my next door neighbours daughter ask me to help with her school work because her "non-native English teacher" from Cameroon cannot be understood by anyone in the class?

must admit you have a point my sons learn at school then i correct what they have learned most of the time...you don't go to a French man to learn Thai...just saying 

[ikke1959]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

So why does my next door neighbours daughter ask me to help with her school work because her "non-native English teacher" from Cameroon cannot be understood by anyone in the class?

Good of your neigbours daughter to ask you.... I am only wondering if it is the non native English speaker.. Have you ever talked with a Thai English teacher??? They don't understand us and we don't understand them too...  

[ThaiFelix]

15 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

When you have sub standard Teachers you will always end up with sub standard Education

Can I ask what experience you have had teaching in Thailand?

 

I taught for ten years here and found the teachers were like workers in any occupation...some good some bad.  However I find many people are quick to blame the teachers as though the teachers have full control in the schools.  Its just like our late school president used to say at the beginning of nearly every one of his speeches :

 

"This may be an education institution but it is a business first"

 

When I first started teaching here 18 years ago my salary was 40,000 per month.  The standard today is around 25,000....what do you expect

 

I would like to see education in Thailand before we start talking about "Education Inequality".  Its like that old saying....You cant complain about the communication if theres none to complain about!

[paulikens]

Just now, hotchilli said:

So why does my next door neighbours daughter ask me to help with her school work because her "non-native English teacher" from Cameroon cannot be understood by anyone in the class?

@hotchilli cuz she's lazy and is getting you to do it and then blaming the foreign teacher and you have fallen for it.   

[hotchilli]

5 minutes ago, paulikens said:

@hotchilli cuz she's lazy and is getting you to do it and then blaming the foreign teacher and you have fallen for it.   

NO.....

She is not lazy, she's asking me to explain it... so she understands.

Not getting me to do it.

DON'T TWIST MY POST!

[DJ54]

Good comments and interesting to learn more about the systems... living in rural NE I wish parents Would teach their children the importance of school....  as it is now many children in  rural will have 

a hard go at improving their lives..

[hotchilli]

31 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Good of your neigbours daughter to ask you.... I am only wondering if it is the non native English speaker.. Have you ever talked with a Thai English teacher??? They don't understand us and we don't understand them too...  

I understand what you say...

The class has a lead Thai female teacher along with the foreign teacher, she doesn't understand the foreign teacher either... when the class asks her for an explanation or clarity on what he's saying she can't help much.

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

Ultimately the system delivers the results that the ruling elite wants it to deliver. A population indoctrinated by rote learning, without too many critical thinkers (troublemakers). Sad really, but difficult to change. 

Judging from countries that use rote learning like Singapore, Japan, China and India; their education system have produced successful economies. 

 

My personal view is that rote learning is still important as a foundation for the lower education and critical or meaningful learning should be incorporated for higher education. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Eric Loh
wrong paragraph

[hotchilli]

24 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

"This may be an education institution but it is a business first"

 

When I first started teaching here 18 years ago my salary was 40,000 per month.  The standard today is around 25,000....what do you expect

I'm not saying this is the root of the problem... but when you pay peanuts.... 

[Stevemercer]

“Students cannot fail,” said the teacher, who prefers to remain anonymous. She explained that teachers have to compromise, even when students have very low test results. If they grade them zero, it causes dissatisfaction in the parents and school management, and it could turn into a big issue. While she has not encountered this problem personally, it has happened among many of her colleagues.

“They get into big trouble and no one can protect them, even though they are working at full efficiency. This makes me feel so stressed because, if it happens to me one day, I really have no one to turn to”.

 

Part of the problem, I guess.

 

[Almer]

I was truly shocked when my wife’s daughter who is waiting to go to High School asked me to check her on line english work before submitting it, her absolute lack of understanding of anything connected to English was truly shameful for somebody who is waiting to go and further her English, many questions were unanswered because of the understanding or lack of, recently I had 2 neighbors in the village ask if I would tutor there children 5 in total, i am tempted just to help but how much grief would I get if somebody gets upset I wonder.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Almer
Addition text

[ikke1959]

58 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

I understand what you say...

The class has a lead Thai female teacher along with the foreign teacher, she doesn't understand the foreign teacher either... when the class asks her for an explanation or clarity on what he's saying she can't help much.

And I am happy to hear that your neighbours daughter is motivated and willing to learn... A lot of students won't take the chance.. My neighbours kids have never asked me anything, although I offered them free assistance 

[Chongalulu]

Unless they can restore their former tourist industry (and it won’t be the un achievable 'high class' individual  they delude themselves about) the employment and wealth prospects for very many Thais is bleak. They simply don’t have the educational skills,nor English command, to make headway in the technological high skills industries to substitute. Tourism’s relatively low skill base suits them perfectly- unfortunately the current mob don’t have the intelligence to understand nor reinvigorate that industry here. An infrastructure is crumbling.

[NeoDinosaw]

18 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

When you have sub standard Teachers you will always end up with sub standard Education; especially when Nationalism is preached first and Rote system is in use.    Time to kick out everyone at the Education Ministry; it's full of Dinosours, very similar to Government House !

You need a good kicking  for you gigantic spelling error !

[Bkk Brian]

Very sad state of affairs

 

As many as 1.2 million school-age children have dropped out of school, an equivalent of 16 out of every 100 school children, said Attapol Sangkwasi, secretary general of the Education Council on Tuesday. Factors include poverty, being made orphan

 

following parents who have to migrate to seek work and lack of equipment to engage in online education as required during COVID-19 pandemic. "What's more, a Unicef report states that the abilities of students to read and write have dropped by 30 percent," said Attapol.

[NeoDinosaw]

5 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

Education reform, police reform, military reform, all have been vowed then started, then sputtered to a halt numerous times over the years... - which leads me to believe that there are mysterious forces arrayed who do not want reforms to be successful.

But, I could be wrong and Thailand is just unlucky...

there are mysterious forces arrayed who do not want reforms to be successful.

 

Spot on !!!!!

[KhunLA]

Does seem a bit of a waste of time now.  Thankfully my daughter graduated Uni last May, and a good portion of her last semester was online.

 

The dumbing down of the next generation just took another dismal leap toward even more ignorant society, if that's even possible.  Us conspiracy nuts would consider this ... a very successful game plan execution, for even more future control of the masses.  

 

A new crop of 'mushrooms' fed BS & kept in the dark.  The beginning of the extinction of any 'free thought'.

[Chiang Mai Will]

18 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

When you have sub standard Teachers you will always end up with sub standard Education; especially when Nationalism is preached first and Rote system is in use.    Time to kick out everyone at the Education Ministry; it's full of Dinosours, very similar to Government House !

What you say is very true. Generally the teachers working in the cities are better than those in rural schools.

 

Added to this is the problem of parents' attitude to education: poorly educated parents see no reason for education and do not pressurise their children with attaining academic achievements if they are only going to work on the farm or do menial jobs. When I was teaching English hardly any child over the age of 12 years saw any benefit in learning English.

[Ginner]

18 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

When you have sub standard Teachers you will always end up with sub standard Education; especially when Nationalism is preached first and Rote system is in use.    Time to kick out everyone at the Education Ministry; it's full of Dinosours, very similar to Government House !

Very easy to to criticize the teachers, especially when YOU can't spell  DINOSAURS correctly. There are a lot of VERY GOOD and DEDICATED teachers in both government and private schools.

The main problem they have with the English language is, the Ministry Of Education is still demanding quantity over quality. The 12 units should be cut to a minimum of 8 units. Give them  more time, not  throw more at them. 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

6 hours ago, brian2f2f said:

80% or more of the entire course is strictly grammar so they have little to no vocabulary and have no idea at all how to communicate.

Yup. It's also hardly a Thai problem. I teach Chinese, Japanese, and Korean adults online, and this is their #1 complaint. They studied English all through high school and university in this manner, and thus can hardly speak any.

 

The Thais, surprisingly, are a bit ahead of them in this regard. As they love things done for display, they've loved to watch my students give speeches, perform skits, organize debate teams, recite stories. Though unfortunately, it's usually a small percentage of the total student body who are so engaged.

[dinsdale]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Disagree,

Technology is generally a distraction from education.

All you need to educate children is decent text books for the kids and a blackboard with chalk for the teachers.

Times have moved on. It's now called the 21st Century.

[Bruno123]

4 hours ago, hotchilli said:

NO.....

She is not lazy, she's asking me to explain it... so she understands.

Not getting me to do it.

DON'T TWIST MY POST!

 

That one goes along with "the dog ate my homework". She is hardly going to say something negative about herself. That she does not understand may not be the fault of the teacher.

 

I have friends who are teachers working for the government. It's not unusual that I get a request to do their niece's homework for them. 

 

One question requested that you explain the process that you see in the pictures shown.

But in order to do so, you, to my eye, needed to have some basic knowledge of the process. So I asked if it were an English test or was it a study of the process shown in the pictures. Neither the teacher nor the 'niece' had even the slightest clue about anything to do with the question.

In the end it was just easier to just do it for them. 

 

Of course it's easier for you to blame the Cameroonian. That's racism for you; attacking the low hanging fruit because it's the easiest thing to do.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Bruno123

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Times have moved on. It's now called the 21st Century.

Agree. For just one example. There is a national shortage of coders in the UK. My daughter here in an International school has carried out many robotic coding projects and developed some basic apps. Most good International schools provide these basic introductions into real world benefits. Not something that can be achieved with chalk and a blackboard.