3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think you read it wrong. He was asking if that's what you think should happen, not that he wants to do that. It was a question, not a statement.

He also said this:

Quote

Your denial that all of these self-inflicted health issues have any effect on anyone else is mind-blowing. 

A terrible deflection.  What I said is there's an easier way.  Everyone should be jabbed and boosted.  It's not perfect, but it's the best solution we have right now.  Along with masks and social distancing.  Sad some aren't will to do these things.  Or, help others to do so.

 

We're all in this together.  Sadly...

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

We're all in this together.  Sadly...

but that doesn't mean we all have to agree with your point of view.

It's still a pandemic of the unvaccinated.  Not because people are fat or smoke.  Jeez.  And this is costing us billions of dollars.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/11/briefing/omicron-deaths-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated.html

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

but that doesn't mean we all have to agree with your point of view.

My point of view?  The one recommending everyone get vaccinated, boosted and practice safety protocols?  Ummm...that's what a majority of the experts are suggesting.  Not sure what you're on about.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/unvaccinated-covid-patients-cost-the-u-s-health-system-billions-of-dollars/

Quote

Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars

 

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

My point of view?  The one recommending everyone get vaccinated, boosted and practice safety protocols?  Ummm...that's what a majority of the experts are suggesting.  Not sure what you're on about.

No, the one that mandates vaccination. I'm for choice, not compulsion.

If anyone doesn't want to get vaxxed that's 100% OK with me.

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No, the one that mandates vaccination. I'm for choice, not compulsion.

And therein lies the problem.  Not saying you, but too many fall for the misinformation and avoid the jabs. Thus, mandates become necessary.

 

I think you'll agree a good portion of the world isn't educated enough to make intelligent medical decisions like this.  And very, very few docs are suggesting not to get the jab.  Very few.

 

Edit: as you've read, the grave yard is filling up with tombstones that read:

 

I did my own research

On 1/18/2022 at 2:56 PM, 300sd said:

They're on their 4th vax in Israel. That's working well.

Company shareholders must be lovin' it.

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

And therein lies the problem.  Not saying you, but too many fall for the misinformation and avoid the jabs. Thus, mandates become necessary.

 

I think you'll agree a good portion of the world isn't educated enough to make intelligent medical decisions like this.  And very, very few docs are suggesting not to get the jab.  Very few.

 

Edit: as you've read, the grave yard is filling up with tombstones that read:

 

I did my own research

Thus, mandates become necessary.

 

I will never ever agree with you on that.

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Company shareholders must be lovin' it.

Aaaaah, the money thing pops its head up again....????

21 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

but too many fall for the misinformation and avoid the jabs. Thus, mandates become necessary.

 

I think you'll agree a good portion of the world isn't educated enough to make intelligent medical decisions like this.  And very, very few docs are suggesting not to get the jab.  Very few.

And who decides what is a "misinformation" and what is an "intelligent medical decision"?

 

Very few docs? How is the number of such "docs" determined and counted among other "docs"?

 

No "intelligent medical decisions" ever made by renowned and recognized scientists, reviewed by piers, some of them Nobel prize laureates, some of them at the origin and development of vaccines? 

2 minutes ago, Saanim said:

And who decides what is a "misinformation" and what is an "intelligent medical decision"?

 

Very few docs? How is the number of such "docs" determined and counted among other "docs"?

 

No "intelligent medical decisions" ever made by renowned and recognized scientists, reviewed by piers, some of them Nobel prize laureates, some of them at the origin and development of vaccines? 

Come.  Ya gotta be kidding.

14 minutes ago, Saanim said:

And who decides what is a "misinformation" and what is an "intelligent medical decision"?

 

Very few docs? How is the number of such "docs" determined and counted among other "docs"?

 

No "intelligent medical decisions" ever made by renowned and recognized scientists, reviewed by piers, some of them Nobel prize laureates, some of them at the origin and development of vaccines? 

In the age of the internet. it's always possible to find a few outliers to confirm whatever you want to believe.

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

In the age of the internet. it's always possible to find a few outliers to confirm whatever you want to believe.

Like the group of Flat Earthers?  Or, the nutters who follow QAnon? LOL

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

An absolutely disgusting thing to say.  Hopefully, you're just trolling and don't really think that.  There are easier ways around this.  Sad you don't agree with them.

It was a question, and you didn’t answer it. Not trolling at all. 
 

You’ve suggested before that the unvaccinated should move to the back of the line for healthcare, so why shouldn’t someone who has been vaccinated, but also neglected their own health for decades, fall behind someone like me if there is limited care available?

 

 

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

 

I think you'll agree a good portion of the world isn't educated enough to make intelligent medical decisions like this.  

A good portion of the world isn’t smart enough to make most of the important decisions in life. Does that mean we should let the government make these decisions for us? 
 

Maybe they should decide what we eat, what we drink, how many hours a day we can spend sitting on the couch or at our computer desk, whether or not we’re allowed to make babies.
It would probably improve a lot of people’s situation in life if they did, but it’s not the world I want to live in. 

An off-topic post about obesity has been removed.

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

He said this:

An absolutely disgusting thing to say.  Especially since many lung cancer patients don't get cancer from smoking.  I've got a relative like this.  Not sure where she got it, but she's dying.  Never smoked a day in her life.

I’m not talking about your relative. I’m talking about the people who knew the risks of smoking from the very beginning and chose to do it anyway, and then expected to be saved at any cost to the system when they predictably got cancer. 
These people have been taking up space in hospitals forever. I’m sorry if you think it’s disgusting that I don’t have much sympathy for them. 
 

 

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Ridiculous to try and compare old flu seasons with what's going on now.  But typical of a covid denier.  Classic actually.

I’m just stating facts. I’m sorry if they’re inconvenient to you.

 

If you can dig up a quote where I’ve ever denied the existence of covid, or it’s severity to certain groups of people I will delete my account on this forum, and you’ll never have to read one of my posts ever again. 

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You assume ‘self inflicted’.

 

Life style diseases occur in a population at a predictable rate, they don’t grow exponentially over very short periods as do COVID infections.

 

 

What difference does it make? People with lifestyle related illnesses have been straining the system forever, and they represent a very large portion of those who are dying from covid as well. 
 

Without those people, the system could cope much easier. That’s all there is to it. 

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Come.  Ya gotta be kidding.

A good answer. Or is it an argument? Even better than "misinformation"...

Just now, Saanim said:

A good answer. Or is it an argument? Even better than "misinformation"...

Hard to argue with statements like you made.  They've been addressed dozens of time by dozens of members here.  And you still don't get it. 

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Because it is irrelevant.

It’s not irrelevant at all if your argument for mandatory vaccination is the cost and unnecessary strain that covid puts on hospitals. 

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Hard to argue with statements like you made.  They've been addressed dozens of time by dozens of members here.  And you still don't get it. 

And the arguments dozens of time: "misinformation"...

Just now, Saanim said:

And the arguments dozens of time: "misinformation"...

Which were correct.

Posts discussing moderation have been removed

3 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

Hospitals in my country ( Canada) have been overwhelmed like clockwork, every flu season, for as long as I can remember. 
Old people with chronic health problems, most of those related to obesity, kept them near capacity in the best of times. 

And what does this have to do with drastic increase in ICU utilization due to covid? Does the fact that the flu stresses hospitals excuse people from getting vaccinated for a more dangerous and more prevalent disease?

And does the fact the many countries that can afford to haven't been maintaining their public health resources to a necessary standard provide an excuse to take a bad situation and make it disastrous?

And what about poorer countries where such resources are scarce?

And, for what it's worth, for most of the covid pandemic the flu was close to nonexistent.

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And what does this have to do with drastic increase in ICU utilization due to covid? Does the fact that the flu stresses hospitals excuse people from getting vaccinated for a more dangerous and more prevalent disease?

And does the fact the many countries that can afford to haven't been maintaining their public health resources to a necessary standard provide an excuse to take a bad situation and make it disastrous?

And what about poorer countries where such resources are scarce?

And, for what it's worth, for most of the covid pandemic the flu was close to nonexistent.

The reason I think it’s relevant is because if we’re going to force vaccines on those who don’t want them, then we should also be forcing lifestyle changes on the large part of the population who was responsible for straining our healthcare system before covid came along, and still continues to make up the bulk of those who die of covid, along with all of their other co-morbidities. 
 

It’s the same group of people who were already dying of heart attacks, strokes, and diabetes, who are now dying of covid in the greatest numbers, by far. 
 

The idea that vaccines alone can fix this problem, while people just continue on eating themselves to death, is not realistic. 

11 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

The reason I think it’s relevant is because if we’re going to force vaccines on those who don’t want them, then we should also be forcing lifestyle changes on the large part of the population who was responsible for straining our healthcare system before covid came along, and still continues to make up the bulk of those who die of covid, along with all of their other co-morbidities. 
 

It’s the same group of people who were already dying of heart attacks, strokes, and diabetes, who are now dying of covid in the greatest numbers, by far. 
 

The idea that vaccines alone can fix this problem, while people just continue on eating themselves to death is not realistic. 

As I've pointed out before, one reason that your comment is invalid  is that the hospital systems were able to cope with the rise in obesity because the rise was gradual. But the rise in covid was anything but gradual. It comes in surges that repeatedly overwhelm hospitals. In other words, it's an emergency. 

Another reason that your comment is invalid is that it takes no account of degree of difficulty. It's a struggle every day for the obese to lose weight. Is it a struggle every day for the unvaccinated to get vaccinated? Is being unvaccinated some kind of addiction? Do they have the right because of their blatantly false beliefs to endanger public health when getting vaccinated would benefit so many?

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

level of protection afforded by vaccination

Anyone with a pulse probably has concluded by now that mRNA therapies provide protection albeit temporary due to vaccine waning effect as evidenced by the plethora of boosters recommended, up to 4 now with an omicron specific concoction in the works.