Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, AndyFoxy said:

Can you explain the case of Israel please? One of the most vaccinated countries on Earth yet they are having more COVID deaths than ever before.

This claim has been discredited as false in this thread.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, RandiRona said:

Tell this to sheeps who is willing to take gazillion shots without asking a single question. 

Plural of sheep is sheep sir.... I think most folks are limiting to 3 shots (maybe 4 in Israel now), rather than gazillions. I am inclined to top up my 2 with an omicron infection and hope that is the end of it. 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, RandiRona said:

Tell this to sheeps who is willing to take gazillion shots without asking a single question. 

How about the sheep who believe lies and pseudoscience from social sources without ever looking at an actual scientific research article?

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

Tell that to the dying vaxxed with Covid.

Not too many of those thankfully, its the unvaxxed clogging up the hospitals and dying

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination

[AndyFoxy]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

This claim has been discredited as false in this thread.

Look at the data. It ain’t false.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

Edited February 5, 2022 by AndyFoxy

[ozimoron]

Just now, AndyFoxy said:

Look at the data. It ain’t false.

There's a lot of data which contradicts it and fact checks (AAP) which criticize that one article.

[AndyFoxy]

Just now, ozimoron said:

There's a lot of data which contradicts it and fact checks (AAP) which criticize that one article.

Which article? I’m just talking about the data.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, AndyFoxy said:

Which article? I’m just talking about the data.

already posted in this thread. I know the anti science crowd don't ever read anything which challenges their fixed beliefs.

Edited February 5, 2022 by ozimoron

[0james0]

It is utterly useless and futile to try to convince an individual of something they absolutely oppose, even if it is a factual reality. A lot of the discussions here are attempts to prove or convince, waste of energy and only incites self aggravation. 

 

What this whole covid thing has shown me over the last couple of years is how submissive the masses can be. My worldview is, self ownership, free thinking and free speech are paramount and the respect there of. But in any case, in my opinion, we are living in the "Era of Stupidity". 

 

During the next generation the facts will be known. At least educate yourself and not be educated and you're free to believe as you wish I really don't care. More likely than not, whatever it is you believe will be proven false in the future. But one fact that won't change, is that humans have been living and dying from many different strains of SARS aka Coronavirus for thousands of years, just as the recent strain, it's an illness that mostly kills those with weakened immune systems. Only a uneducated cretin (id est anyone unwilling to teach themselves and question information) would deny it.   

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by 0james0
Because history has shown that mass hysteric psychosis is based on myth

[RandiRona]

21 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Plural of sheep is sheep sir.... I think most folks are limiting to 3 shots (maybe 4 in Israel now), rather than gazillions. I am inclined to top up my 2 with an omicron infection and hope that is the end of it. 

Amen!!

[RandiRona]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

How about the sheep who believe lies and pseudoscience from social sources without ever looking at an actual scientific research article?

Both who utilize science to run propoganda and the one who closes their eye to it are to blame. Problem is folks arent able to question the reason for same shots every six months for different versions?  I would take variant specific shots if I see there is need as it for flu, different flu shots every year.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/moderna-working-covid-19-booster-154400551.html

[ozimoron]

Just now, RandiRona said:

Both who utilize science to run propoganda and the one who closes their eye to it are to blame. Problem is folks arent able to question the reason for same shots every six months for different versions?  I would take variant specific shots if I see there is need as it for flu, different flu shots every year.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/moderna-working-covid-19-booster-154400551.html

That's the thing about peer reviewed articles. Unless you are a big believer in conspiracy theories it's impossible to run propaganda.

 

The reasons have been clearly published. The vaccines are not 100% effective and protection has been shown to increase markedly with a third shot. A 4th shot has only been recommended for vulnerable people at very high risk.

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, 0james0 said:

It is utterly useless and futile to try to convince an individual of something they absolutely oppose, even if it is a factual reality. A lot of the discussions here are attempts to prove or convince, waste of energy and only incites self aggravation. 

 

What this whole covid thing has shown me over the last couple of years is how submissive the masses can be. My worldview is, self ownership, free thinking and free speech are paramount and the respect there of. But in any case, in my opinion, we are living in the "Era of Stupidity". 

 

During the next generation the facts will be known. At least educate yourself and not be educated and you're free to believe as you wish I really don't care. More likely than not, whatever it is you believe will be proven false in the future. But one fact that won't change, is that humans have been living and dying from many different strains of SARS aka Coronavirus for thousands of years, just as the recent strain, it's an illness that mostly kills those with weakened immune systems. Only a uneducated cretin (id est anyone unwilling to teach themselves and question information) would deny it.   

 

 

You know it is possible for free thinking people to arrive at a conclusion that the smart play is just to have the vaccines?

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, AndyFoxy said:

Can you explain the case of Israel please? One of the most vaccinated countries on Earth yet they are having more COVID deaths than ever before.

Obviously this needs another explanation for you as you have not actually researched this at all and instead just looked at stats with no context.

 

Firstly Israel is NOT one of the most vaxxed countries on earth. It only has 65.7% of its population fully vaccinated. 

 

The majority of those deaths are in the unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated. 

 

12% of the over 60's in Israel are either not vaccinated or only partially vaccinated.

 

 

[peter zwart]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:33 AM, alextrat1966 said:

Sure, everyone has the right not to take the vaccine. But so do business owners have the right not to let unvaccinated people enter their businesses, or fly aboard their airplanes, and so do countries have the right not to let the unvaccinated enter. 

 

Any choice you make in life, has consequences (no matter in regards to vaccines or not). If you freely make a choice, you must manly take the consequences. 

What a whole lot of rubbish. especially now with the Omicron variant. People who have a vaccine dont have to be scared. And the amount of hospitalised not exploding and the impact of this variant is getting back to the level of a flu. 

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, AndyFoxy said:

Can you explain the case of Israel please? One of the most vaccinated countries on Earth yet they are having more COVID deaths than ever before.

Still many unvaccinated people in Israel, though Omicron appears to be reducing their number.

 

Can you explain the CDC study showing that the unvaccinated are 53 times more likely to die of Covid than the vaccinated with a booster shot?  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220131&instance_id=51759&nl=the-morning&regi_id=135884956&segment_id=81212&te=1&user_id=7ef4c302f3d7b72eda453d22c70af53e

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

The study shows that the greatest risk by far is being unvaccinated with no prior infection.  Prior infection provided greater protection against double vaccination without a booster shot against the Delta variant, which was a reversal from earlier variants of the virus.  Prior infection plus vaccination provided the greatest protection, so it is always a good idea to get vaccinated.

 

The study does not show the effectiveness of booster shots, but another CDC study show that they give greatly reduce the risk of infection compared to fully vaccinated without booster shots, and even more so compared to the unvaccinated.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220131&instance_id=51759&nl=the-morning&regi_id=135884956&segment_id=81212&te=1&user_id=7ef4c302f3d7b72eda453d22c70af53e

 

"

 

1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said:

This is gibberish.Maybe try reading it then try rewording it.As can be seen in the study I posted getting vaxxed after an infection provides little to no extra benefit.If they are going to restrict people for not being vaxxed yet are better protected from a previous infection then they should do the same for vaxxed with no previous infection because they are at greater risk of becoming infected and ending up in hospital and clogging up the health care system etc.The study clearly shows this. 

I meant to write that "prior infection provided slightly greater protection than double vaccinated without a booster against the Delta variant."  Is that clear?

 

The Delta variant showed that immunity decreased with time, which is why people are being asked to get booster shots.  The CDC has shown that booster shots are very effective at reducing infection and death. 

[heybruce]

57 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

Tell that to the dying vaxxed with Covid.

Once again; no vaccine is 100% effective!  The Covid vaccine is very good a preventing infection and even better at preventing death, but it is not perfect.  Understand?

[heybruce]

53 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

Look at the data. It ain’t false.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

Your link shows nothing about the vaccination status of the people getting infected and dying.  Based upon this incomplete information I would speculate that Omicron is taking a toll on the vaccinated in Israel, as it is doing in many countries.

[EVENKEEL]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You stated this:

 

"During the next generation the facts will be known. At least educate yourself and not be educated and you're free to believe as you wish I really don't care. More likely than not, whatever it is you believe will be proven false in the future."

 

There is an inescapable conclusion here that whatever we believe will be proven false in the future and implies that those who are pro vaccines have not educated themselves. That is pure bunkum and very likely the opposite given how most anti-vaxxers feel about science. If one rejects science it is literally impossible to educate oneself. There is no technical education beyond science.

There's an old video of Dr Fauci during the Aids scare. He was discussing how Aids can be transmitted by simply being in the same space and simply touching one with Aids. Of course we know this to be false now but back then it was very real. In the years to come we will discover how accurate the science is concerning Covid and all the restrictive measures  we as a society implemented.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

There's an old video of Dr Fauci during the Aids scare. He was discussing how Aids can be transmitted by simply being in the same space and simply touching one with Aids. Of course we know this to be false now but back then it was very real. In the years to come we will discover how accurate the science is concerning Covid and all the restrictive measures  we as a society implemented.

The critical mind is aware that evidence can change and scientific consensus can change with the facts and I'm sure he's changed his opinion on that. There were plenty of other scientists pushing back on his opinion at the time so it was open for people to educate themselves. Just because he was wrong then does not mean he will always be wrong. Indeed, a number of presidents from both parties trusted his judgement for decades. Fauci ultimately received the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his efforts to curb the AIDS crisis in Africa.

 

It cannot be logically concluded that it follows that the science will always change to any great degree. I'm not going to wait around 30 years to find out. I'd rather be alive for that long and the chances of that happening are not very good if I don't get vaccinated based on the science we have now.

[EVENKEEL]

40 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The critical mind is aware that evidence can change and scientific consensus can change with the facts and I'm sure he's changed his opinion on that. There were plenty of other scientists pushing back on his opinion at the time so it was open for people to educate themselves. Just because he was wrong then does not mean he will always be wrong. Indeed, a number of presidents from both parties trusted his judgement for decades. Fauci ultimately received the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his efforts to curb the AIDS crisis in Africa.

 

It cannot be logically concluded that it follows that the science will always change to any great degree. I'm not going to wait around 30 years to find out. I'd rather be alive for that long and the chances of that happening are not very good if I don't get vaccinated based on the science we have now.

My point was to follow the science aka Dr Fauci which is what you're preaching here is not always the right move. Just because I've been vaxxed doesn't mean I can't question Fauci's motives at times. Science isn't without flaws.

[Bkk Brian]

5 hours ago, jtrump said:

 

Boosters 88% effective at preventing people ending up in hospital with Covid-19. Real world data:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59840524

 

The covid death rate in Thailand over 2 years is 0.90% 

https://ddc.moph.go.th/covid19-dashboard/

 

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Both who utilize science to run propoganda and the one who closes their eye to it are to blame. Problem is folks arent able to question the reason for same shots every six months for different versions?  I would take variant specific shots if I see there is need as it for flu, different flu shots every year.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/moderna-working-covid-19-booster-154400551.html

Well, many vaccines require at least 2 inoculations to be fully effective. So people are getting the same vaccine twice. Some vaccines require more than 2 inoculations. In the case of covid it has been proven that the same vaccine can be effective against different variants especially in regards to serious illness and death.

[starky]

5 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

I thought that COVID 19 was the big reset virus, but it has only killed off a bit over 5.7 million people.

 Maybe Ebola, would have been a bit more effective. Typhoid Mary only infected just over 50 people.

Idi Amin affected a lot more. Today how ever we have the great unvaccinated, the COVID idiots and morons.

  I just wonder how many other losers will show up in the future. It would be so much nicer if people would have 

treated the COVID vaccine, like they did with the Small Pox vaccine. I do not remember that many people

objecting to have a TB shot, Typhoid shot, Small Pox shot, Polio shot, or a few others in the past.

It seems to be way different today, with all the losers and their lame excuses for not getting the COVID vaccine.

  Am I wrong?

HIV was the great reset unfortunately wasn't available for everyone lol. Only killed a couple thousand the first year now well over 35 million with an ongoing 1 million a year (these aren't exact numbers some sources say maybe 70 million dead and i think only @800 000 died last year but its still way up there). That's one they still haven't cured only controlled funny how virus' only really matter when you have fully been impacted by them.

Edited February 5, 2022 by starky

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, jinners said:

 

I don't know of anyone who got vaccinated because they were told to.  I know that some people (health care workers, first responders, military) have been given the choice of getting vaccinated or finding a new job, but they did have a choice.

 

I very eagerly got vaccinated because I wanted to stay healthy, visit elderly relatives without putting their lives at risk, and do my part to end the pandemic.  I assume people who choose not to get vaccinated do so because these reasons mean little to them.

 

 

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

I don't know of anyone who got vaccinated because they were told to.  I know that some people (health care workers, first responders, military) have been given the choice of getting vaccinated or finding a new job, but they did have a choice.

 

I very eagerly got vaccinated because I wanted to stay healthy, visit elderly relatives without putting their lives at risk, and do my part to end the pandemic.  I assume people who choose not to get vaccinated do so because these reasons mean little to them.

 

BTW: Just what additional testing do you think needs to be done on the Covid vaccines?

I was not going to vaccinate myself in the beginning, but after understanding the real problem, got acces to vaccine, an easy choice. 
 

Just sad to see socalled streetsmart people think they own the truth, while we are thecstupid ones. 
 

I have a friend who study pandemics, study mrna technology, worked in the field world wide with pandemics the last 15 years, I believe I can trust her advice. She told me her thoughtsvabout how this would develop, how long time it would take, and also how the vaccines work. Yes there is a risk involved with vaccine, but the risk is small compare to let the covid 19 loose. 
 

And here I am still in Thailand because I followed her advice. There will beva new high after this one, and then we should be ok after next new year, but covid will stay with us a long long time. Some will still need vaccine in the future, most will not, if not new complicated strains appears.

 

For those guys who fear the vaccine more than covid, or spread the covid, I truly feel sorry for, but most sorry for their kids, and rheir wifes, they keep from having the vaccine. 
 

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I don't know of anyone who got vaccinated because they were told to.  I know that some people (health care workers, first responders, military) have been given the choice of getting vaccinated or finding a new job, but they did have a choice.

Then, you obviously neither know why there are so many people demonstrating in streets? 

[onthedarkside]

Multiple misinformation posts have been removed or edited, including several dealing with disproven COVID vaccine allegations:

 

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/02/01/fact-check-athletes-dying-covid-19-vaccine-playing-field/9287487002/

 

Also a post referring to a disallowed social media source.

 

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, jinners said:

 

No business owners are telling anyone that they must get vaccinated. Only that if they want to enter their establishments must they be vaccinated. The unvaccinated are free to patronize other establishments.