Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, Saanim said:

An old saying says the first casualty of every war is the truth.

 

Provided that over many months (and actually many years before) we hear only positive reports about/from one side and only negative reports about (and nothing from) the other side.

 

Hasn't come to your unbiased mind even a slight doubt that the one side might not be perhaps always so angelic and that the other side might not be always so demonic? 

 

 

  

Agreed. "An old saying says the first casualty of every war is the truth."

 

Kremlin says Bucha is 'monstrous forgery' aimed at smearing Russia

[Mavideol]

20 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

Its a unanimous opinion that the rocker was Ukrainian , the only person who says it wasnt Ukrainian is the Ukrainian leader Z

 

 

Missile that hit Poland likely came from Ukraine defences, say Warsaw and Nato

 

Poland says no evidence to suggest missile was launched by Russia – but Kyiv insists ‘it was not our rocket’Ukraine’s air defence was probably responsible for a blast that killed two people in south-eastern Poland, the Polish president has said, 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/16/poland-president-missile-strike-probably-ukrainian-stray

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bali, IndonesiaCNN — 

The leaders of Poland and NATO said the missile that killed two people in Polish territory on Tuesday was likely fired by Ukrainian forces defending their country against a barrage of Russian strikes, and that the incident appeared to be an accident.

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/16/europe/poland-missile-russia-ukraine-investigation-wednesday-intl-hnk/index.html

you keep posting something that doesn't help you.... one post says ""probably"" and the other says " was likely" how serious are this statements

[BarraMarra]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1278171-mh17-three-guilty-as-court-finds-russia-controlled-group-downed-airliner/

 

These men are happily strolling around and will not serve their sentence so in my opinion justice is indeed served but for what ?

[nausea]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

true horror of Russia’s brutal war and occupation.

True, those Donbas people are so repressed, I expect a popular uprising at any moment.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

you keep posting something that doesn't help you.... one post says ""probably"" and the other says " was likely" how serious are this statements

Do you think that it was a Russian missile fired by Russia (that his Poland) ?

[nausea]

Ukraine needs to get NATO involved with boots on the ground, otherwise they're screwed. It's just like logistics. Russia can keep pouring in men and equipment. That's why America and Europe are so leery, it would be a close run thing. There is no guarantee the West would win. Logistically, all the advantages are on Russia's side. Pick your fights carefully I say.. You screwed up on this one. 

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, nausea said:

Ukraine needs to get NATO involved with boots on the ground, otherwise they're screwed. It's just like logistics. Russia can keep pouring in men and equipment. That's why America and Europe are so leery, it would be a close run thing. There is no guarantee the West would win. Logistically, all the advantages are on Russia's side. Pick your fights carefully I say.. You screwed up on this one. 

Putin was the one who picked the fight with Ukraine, he's the one who screwed up

[Gweiloman]

9 minutes ago, nausea said:

Ukraine needs to get NATO involved with boots on the ground, otherwise they're screwed. It's just like logistics. Russia can keep pouring in men and equipment. That's why America and Europe are so leery, it would be a close run thing. There is no guarantee the West would win. Logistically, all the advantages are on Russia's side. Pick your fights carefully I say.. You screwed up on this one. 

Without NATOs’ arms support, this war would have finished long ago. If NATO gets more involved with boots on the ground as you put it, this could be a wholesale European war. Rest of the world is unlikely to get involved, I hope.

[rudi49jr]

13 minutes ago, nausea said:

Ukraine needs to get NATO involved with boots on the ground, otherwise they're screwed. It's just like logistics. Russia can keep pouring in men and equipment. That's why America and Europe are so leery, it would be a close run thing. There is no guarantee the West would win. Logistically, all the advantages are on Russia's side. Pick your fights carefully I say.. You screwed up on this one. 

The only thing that keeps the Russian army from being wiped out by a conventional attack by NATO is the fact that they have nukes. If they didn’t have nukes, this war would be long over, Ukraine would be liberated and Russia would be licking its wounds for decades to come. ‘Close run thing’, my @ss. 

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Do you think that it was a Russian missile fired by Russia (that his Poland) ?

at this time have no opinion, waiting for the investigation report.... maybe you should do the same  555

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Putin was the one who picked the fight with Ukraine, he's the one who screwed up

just imagine how frustrated/<deleted>  he must be, he went all out into the war because some of his cronies told him Ukrainians would receive Russians with open arms....it was all the contrary, they received the Russians with guns.... now Ukraine has taken many territory back from the Russians, look at Kherson residents when  Ukriane military walked in after taking it back from the Russians, how happy were the residents receiving Ukrainian military with open arms, big smiles and hugs, that for sure <deleted> Vlad off

[rudi49jr]

12 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

just imagine how frustrated/<deleted>  he must be, he went all out into the war because some of his cronies told him Ukrainians would receive Russians with open arms....it was all the contrary, they received the Russians with guns.... now Ukraine has taken many territory back from the Russians, look at Kherson residents when  Ukriane military walked in after taking it back from the Russians, how happy were the residents receiving Ukrainian military with open arms, big smiles and hugs, that for sure <deleted> Vlad off

I read a report that Russians are busy reinforcing their defensive lines, but this happens 60 kilometers behind the actual front line. So they are obviously counting on losing more ground to the Ukrainian offensive. Hope that pisses Vlad off a bit more. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Without NATOs’ arms support, this war would have finished long ago. If NATO gets more involved with boots on the ground as you put it, this could be a wholesale European war. Rest of the world is unlikely to get involved, I hope.

Without Russian military incompetence and corruption this war would have been finished long ago.

[Saanim]

5 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

These men are happily strolling around and will not serve their sentence so in my opinion justice is indeed served but for what ?

Aren't you off-topic? (substituting for mod, however, I cannot delete your post...????) 

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

he went all out into the war because some of his cronies told him Ukrainians would receive Russians with open arms

Do you have a creditable link to your statement?

[Saanim]

6 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Agreed. "An old saying says the first casualty of every war is the truth."

 

Kremlin says Bucha is 'monstrous forgery' aimed at smearing Russia

Perhaps you missed my question: "Hasn't come to your unbiased mind even a slight doubt that the one side might not be perhaps always so angelic and that the other side might not be always so demonic?"

 

[tgw]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Do you think that it was a Russian missile fired by Russia (that his Poland) ?

the point is that most probably we won't know before the war is over.

 

Ukraine's interest is obviously to hold NATO to its word to "defend every square inch of NATO member countries' territory", that's why it wants the missile to have been Ruzzian-fired.

 

But NATO obviously doesn't want that, and since it doesn't want it, the investigation can only lead to one result: it won't be possible to prove that the missile which killed 2 persons in Poland was fired by Ruzzians.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Perhaps you missed my question: "Hasn't come to your unbiased mind even a slight doubt that the one side might not be perhaps always so angelic and that the other side might not be always so demonic?"

 

No didn't miss more off topic nonsense

[rudi49jr]

5 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Perhaps you missed my question: "Hasn't come to your unbiased mind even a slight doubt that the one side might not be perhaps always so angelic and that the other side might not be always so demonic?"

 

Of course the world is not black and white. But in this case it pretty much is: Russia started this war, totally unprovoked, and is committing war crimes on a daily basis, some even more gruesome than others. I’m sure the Ukrainian army are no angels, but they are the ones being attacked, their people are being bombed and shelled, raped and tortured and killed by the Russian army and their hired help (like Wagner and Kadyrov’s private army), and they have every right to defend themselves. 

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Without Russian military incompetence and corruption this war would have been finished long ago.

Your post doesn’t make sense. Surely, if there was corruption and military incompetence on the Russian side, the war would have been finished long ago? Unless some other parties want the war to continue? What am I missing here?

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, nausea said:

True, those Donbas people are so repressed, I expect a popular uprising at any moment.

You've totally bought into the Putin/RT version of events, haven't you?

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, nausea said:

Ukraine needs to get NATO involved with boots on the ground, otherwise they're screwed. It's just like logistics. Russia can keep pouring in men and equipment. That's why America and Europe are so leery, it would be a close run thing. There is no guarantee the West would win. Logistically, all the advantages are on Russia's side. Pick your fights carefully I say.. You screwed up on this one. 

Or, NATO let's Ukraine know that it can use the arsenal of captured Russian weapons on legitimate military targets in Russia.  Reminding Russians what war feels like could bring this thing to an end.

[heybruce]

24 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Perhaps you missed my question: "Hasn't come to your unbiased mind even a slight doubt that the one side might not be perhaps always so angelic and that the other side might not be always so demonic?"

 

No, everyone ignored your question because it is ridiculous.  There are no angels in this war, but there is an aggressor and a victim.  It's easy to distinguish between the two, but I suspect you won't get it right.

[rudi49jr]

3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Your post doesn’t make sense. Surely, if there was corruption and military incompetence on the Russian side, the war would have been finished long ago? Unless some other parties want the war to continue? What am I missing here?

Let me expalin it to you in small words. If there wasn’t the kind of widespread corruption and incompetence that there is, the Russian army could have won this war months ago. But there is widespread corruption and incompetence, hence the war is still going on, and it’s not going well for Russia, by the looks of it. What’s so hard to understand about fhat?

[Gweiloman]

8 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Let me expalin it to you in small words. If there wasn’t the kind of widespread corruption and incompetence that there is, the Russian army could have won this war months ago. But there is widespread corruption and incompetence, hence the war is still going on, and it’s not going well for Russia, by the looks of it. What’s so hard to understand about fhat?

If NATO did not send billions of dollars worth of arms to Ukraine, the war would have ended already. You and many others know this. You just can’t bring yourself to admit it.

 

Israel refuse to send arms. Italy might be next. If more countries follow suit, then the war might end soon, hopefully.

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

If NATO did not send billions of dollars worth of arms to Ukraine, the war would have ended already. You and many others know this. You just can’t bring yourself to admit it.

 

Israel refuse to send arms. Italy might be next. If more countries follow suit, then the war might end soon, hopefully.

I see your point:  Russia has other countries it wants to invade and you want to let Russia get on with it.

 

Some of us don't want Russia to get on with it.

[tgw]

54 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Perhaps you missed my question: "Hasn't come to your unbiased mind even a slight doubt that the one side might not be perhaps always so angelic and that the other side might not be always so demonic?"

 

https://www.inc.com/marla-tabaka/influential-leaders-avoid-these-common-words-they-indicate-a-lack-of-emotional-intelligence.html

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Your post doesn’t make sense. Surely, if there was corruption and military incompetence on the Russian side, the war would have been finished long ago? Unless some other parties want the war to continue? What am I missing here?

Actually, your assumptions don't make sense. For years, Putin was amassing cash and materiel to carry out his invasion of Ukraine. Despite which, his forces were stopped when Ukraine was still at a huge materiel disadvantage. Now that things are being equalized, we see big Russian retreats everywhere. Once anti-missile systems are in place, any edge Russia has will be gone.

[Gweiloman]

On 11/18/2022 at 7:40 PM, rudi49jr said:

Let me expalin it to you in small words. If there wasn’t the kind of widespread corruption and incompetence that there is, the Russian army could have won this war months ago. But there is widespread corruption and incompetence, hence the war is still going on, and it’s not going well for Russia, by the looks of it. What’s so hard to understand about fhat?

Doesn’t seem like the experts agree with you.

 

The top U.S. general on November 16 said the chances of any near-term military victory for Ukraine are not high unless the Russian military completely collapses, which he said is unlikely.

General Mark Milley, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that while the Ukrainian military has had important successes in Kharkiv and Kherson, Russia occupies 20 percent of Ukraine and still has significant combat power inside the country's territory.

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/us-general-ukrainian-military-successes-russia/32134708.html

[Gweiloman]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, your assumptions don't make sense. For years, Putin was amassing cash and materiel to carry out his invasion of Ukraine. Despite which, his forces were stopped when Ukraine was still at a huge materiel disadvantage. Now that things are being equalized, we see big Russian retreats everywhere. Once anti-missile systems are in place, any edge Russia has will be gone.

I didn’t make any assumptions but it seems to me that you are making lots of assumptions.

 

 I thought anti-missile systems were already in place since weeks? Ukraine has claimed to have shot down lots of missiles (could provide you with links in case you missed those reports) already.