Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Slip]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A battle lost doesn't mean the war is lost.

Only need to look at Britain beginning of WW2, Disastrous retreat to Dunkirk and almost the entire army captured, but rebuilt over next 3 years to defeat the Germans.

IMO some posters read far too much into too little.

One has to look at which side can last the distance in a long war. If the NATO countries currently sending arms decide the cost is too high, and stop- what then for Ukraine?

If the current financial situation deteriorates, will taxpayers continue to accept spending billions to support a war they are not even fighting in?

I've seen some Russian (presumed propaganda, but still) commenters saying there will be a big Russian push after the New Year.  I have to agree that the message (also presumed to be borne of propaganda) that Russia is on the ropes is dangerous and counter-productive.  Plus the other concerns you raise are real and ongoing.  

 

This agreeing with you seems to be happening more often- are you softening or should I be worried? lol.

[rudi49jr]

56 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If the NATO countries currently sending arms decide the cost is too high, and stop- what then for Ukraine?

Another one of your if’s. Do you see any indication that NATO is about to cut down or stop the aid they’re sending to Ukraine? I mean, other than the Republican Putin fan boys and their counterparts (i.e. Victor Orban) in Europe?
NATO knows very well that Ukraine is fighting a very important battle for them, and that if they stop helping Ukraine, Russia will probably win and then have its hands free to find another target. Russia needs to be stopped and Ukraine can do it, but only with NATO’s help.

[jvs]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A battle lost doesn't mean the war is lost.

Only need to look at Britain beginning of WW2, Disastrous retreat to Dunkirk and almost the entire army captured, but rebuilt over next 3 years to defeat the Germans.

IMO some posters read far too much into too little.

One has to look at which side can last the distance in a long war. If the NATO countries currently sending arms decide the cost is too high, and stop- what then for Ukraine?

If the current financial situation deteriorates, will taxpayers continue to accept spending billions to support a war they are not even fighting in?

You gave a very good example,Britain built up their army to fight the

Nazi's at that time!

Let me tell you,Britain had an awful lot of help.Without help from the US and other countries they would not even had been able to feed themselves.

No one is going to help Putin,no one!

He well and truly painted himself into a corner and he can not afford to wait until the paint is dry.

Unrests in the country,army behind on everything,more people have fled the country then joined the army.

The economy is not doing well and now there is a price cap on oil.

Look around on youtube and other sites and see the attitude of Russian changing.

I know off topic but,would you let your son fight for Putin,assuming you have kids.

 

 

[metisdead]

A post with quoted content attributed to the wrong member has been removed. 

[rudi49jr]

Here’s a scary prospect: ‘Putin’s private warlord is plotting power grab, Wagner defector warns.’

 

That guy Prigozhin really gives me the creeps.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-s-private-warlord-is-plotting-power-grab-wagner-defector-warns-6v7spmtp5

Edited December 3, 2022 by rudi49jr

[DezLez]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Disastrous retreat to Dunkirk and almost the entire army captured

What disastrous retreat to Dunkirk and what army captured?

A retreat yes but not a disaster!

 

The Dunkirk evacuation, codenamed Operation Dynamo and also known as the Miracle of Dunkirk, or just Dunkirk, was the evacuation of more than 338,000 Allied soldiers during the Second World War from the beaches and harbour of Dunkirk, in the north of France, between 26 May and 4 June 1940.

 

For every seven soldiers who escaped through Dunkirk, one man became a prisoner of war.  Not exactly "an entire army captured"!

 

The BEF lost 68,000 soldiers during the French campaign and had to abandon nearly all of its tanks, vehicles, and equipment. In his 4 June speech, Churchill also reminded the country that "we must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."

 

Dunkirk evacuation - Wikipedia

 

 

PS;  As noted above I posted something similar to this earlier quoting the wrong person!

Edited December 3, 2022 by DezLez

[Bkk Brian]

Great clarity of some of these satellite images from Mariupol. More in the article, one particular is the theater where so many civilians were killed by a Russian missile. The have erected a massive screen around the whole complex.

 

But as for the new Russian army base in Mariupol, its even got a star as a target for the Ukraine HIMARS.....lol

 

Ukraine war: New images show Russian army base built in occupied Mariupol

Russia is consolidating its military presence in the captured port city of Mariupol by constructing a large army base, satellite photos released from the Earth observation company Maxar appear to show.

The new, U-shaped compound sits near the centre of the city. On its roof, the red, white and blue star of the Russian army can be seen, with letters reading "From the Russian army to the people of Mariupol".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63846154

[rudi49jr]

Putin to visit Donbas, not clear yet when or where. Keeping my fingers crossed for that one Ukrainian sniper who will be able to take him out.

 

 

[rudi49jr]

Mutiny in the Russian army, who’d have thunk it?

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Slip said:

I've seen some Russian (presumed propaganda, but still) commenters saying there will be a big Russian push after the New Year.  I have to agree that the message (also presumed to be borne of propaganda) that Russia is on the ropes is dangerous and counter-productive.  Plus the other concerns you raise are real and ongoing.  

 

This agreeing with you seems to be happening more often- are you softening or should I be worried? lol.

LOL.

 

I make no claim to be right on anything- mostly opinion, but I try to avoid believing the BS.

Russia- huge country, nuclear arsenal, loads of resources, history of being terrible at war, but winning by sheer force of numbers and General Winter. Napoleon and Hitler learned the same lesson.

 

Were it not for western weapons likely over already, and Europe/ US possibly heading for recession/ possibly worse. Who can best stay the course over years? IMO Europeans/ Americans will not stand to see billions spent for Ukraine while they freeze, go without. On Al Jazeera this morning Macron warning the French they may suffer power cuts.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/world-all-news/331849/french-president-macron-warns-of-power-cuts

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[BarraMarra]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:46 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

As I've remarked before, escalating this conflict is likely to end in nuclear war. I'm quite surprised that so many posters seem eager to see everyone they know die.

Russia is using Iranian Drones so who cares if the west is supplying Arms to kick the Russian Invaders out of Ukrain? thai beach harps on about Nukes it won't happen because the 1st launch will be the last Moscow will be reduced to Ash.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

it won't happen because the 1st launch will be the last Moscow will be reduced to Ash.

and you know that because? NATO, IMO, has no justification to use nuclear weapons against Russia if they only use them in Ukraine, a non NATO country, and the fall out does not affect a NATO country.

I'm glad that some of the posters on here are not in charge, lest we all be ash by now.

Edited December 4, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[DezLez]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm glad that some of the posters on here are not in charge, lest well  be ash by now.

I for once agree with you.  Especially as you are not in charge otherwise we would all be ash by now!

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, jvs said:

No one is going to help Putin,no one!

LOL. China and India are not on the bandwagon. China and India are not going to play with the west unless it suits them to do so.

China and India want Russian oil.

[BarraMarra]

17 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A battle lost doesn't mean the war is lost.

Only need to look at Britain beginning of WW2, Disastrous retreat to Dunkirk and almost the entire army captured, but rebuilt over next 3 years to defeat the Germans.

IMO some posters read far too much into too little.

One has to look at which side can last the distance in a long war. If the NATO countries currently sending arms decide the cost is too high, and stop- what then for Ukraine?

If the current financial situation deteriorates, will taxpayers continue to accept spending billions to support a war they are not even fighting in?

Remind us all Thaibeach who kicked the Russian Bear out of Afgan and the weaponry they used.

[rabas]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Russia- huge country, nuclear arsenal, loads of resources, history of being terrible at war, but winning by sheer force of numbers and General Winter. Napoleon and Hitler learned the same lesson.

This is a false equivalence. In both cases Russia was brutally invaded and had every reason to fight. This time, Putin and his thugs wrongly invaded a legally sovereign country. The Russian people do not want this war and even the Russian military is deeply unhappy about the position they're in. They have gone from justly fighting Napoleons and Hitlers to illegal invasions, war crimes, and loosing. They are not happy.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, rabas said:

This is a false equivalence. In both cases Russia was brutally invaded and had every reason to fight. This time, Putin and his thugs wrongly invaded a legally sovereign country. The Russian people do not want this war and even the Russian military is deeply unhappy about the position they're in. They have gone from justly fighting Napoleons and Hitlers to illegal invasions, war crimes, and loosing. They are not happy.

Being "unhappy" has little significance in a dictatorship the Russian Federation.

Has any Russian from Crimea to Afghanistan been happy to become cannon fodder in the Russian military? The Russian military is not noted for being a warm and fuzzy organisation where conscripts sit around the camp fire singing Kumbaya.

[placeholder]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Being "unhappy" has little significance in a dictatorship the Russian Federation.

Has any Russian from Crimea to Afghanistan been happy to become cannon fodder in the Russian military? The Russian military is not noted for being a warm and fuzzy organisation where conscripts sit around the camp fire singing Kumbaya.

Apparently you believe soldiers' morale is an unimportant factor in fighting a war. That is laughable.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, rabas said:

You need to read Milton Bardeen's rebuttal at the bottom of the article. It disassembles the whole premise.  Bardeen was the CIA's Chief of Station in Pakistan during the war and noted Afgan war expert. A case of academic versus someone who knows the facts.

 

"Alan J. Kuperman's proposition, based on archival evidence, that Gorbachev was ready to withdraw from Afghanistan in 1986 is simply not supported by the historical fact of a vigorous and brutal Soviet prosecution of the war until 1988. "

 

"And Kuperman's characterization of the Soviets' having developed successful countermeasures to the Stinger -- flares, beacons, and exhaust baÛes -- is contradicted by overwhelming evidence from U.S., Soviet, and Afghan sources."

We'll have to disagree then. Any missile system can be negated given time and resources. I read long ago that the Russians had overcome the Stinger problem and have no trouble believing that.

Any CIA official's public hypothesis is suspect IMO, because it would be bad for their career prospects to be in the wrong. It was far better for Milton Bardeen's career if the US missiles won the war, than if a new Soviet leader just gave up.

 

Do you believe that the US would hand over technology that could be used to defeat their own air force when ( not if ) it was captured by the Russians?

Edited December 4, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[Rimmer]

Off topic and bickering posts removed, STOP trying to hijack the topic which is not about Dunkirk, Mikhail Gorbachev, Afghanistan or the mujahideen.

[Lacessit]

As Garry Kasparov has said, this is Russia's last winter. After that, there will be no market for Russian oil and gas in Europe, and no income. The Europeans will never allow themselves to be dependent on Russia again.

True, India and China can pick up some of the slack. However, the logistics are formidable. Russia does not have the pipelines to India and China that it had to Europe, and those pipelines will take years to build. There is not enough shipping to cope with demand, and both nations will be screwing Russia on price.

Posters that claim winter is Russia's ally forget Ukrainians have the same winter, and their troops are better clothed, fed, led and motivated.

There's not going to be much of a market for Russian weapons either, after countries see how easily those armaments are being taken out on the battlefield.

This war is going to get the same analysis from historians as the Charge of the Light Brigade, in terms of folly. There won't be any celebrations of Russian bravery, however.

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL.

 

I make no claim to be right on anything- mostly opinion, but I try to avoid believing the BS.

Russia- huge country, nuclear arsenal, loads of resources, history of being terrible at war, but winning by sheer force of numbers and General Winter. Napoleon and Hitler learned the same lesson.

 

Were it not for western weapons likely over already, and Europe/ US possibly heading for recession/ possibly worse. Who can best stay the course over years? IMO Europeans/ Americans will not stand to see billions spent for Ukraine while they freeze, go without. On Al Jazeera this morning Macron warning the French they may suffer power cuts.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/world-all-news/331849/french-president-macron-warns-of-power-cuts

 

this time no use of IF however still using the BUT, besides that the usual delusional comments, keep it up

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. China and India are not on the bandwagon. China and India are not going to play with the west unless it suits them to do so.

China and India want Russian oil.

Actually, Chinese industry has been avoiding shipping high tech goods to Russia for fear of landing on the USA's $h*tL*$t

[Bkk Brian]

Thanks to NASA for documenting just some of the stolen gains in Putin's war of choice.

 

NASA Says Russia Took $1 Billion In Wheat From Occupied Ukraine

Russia has harvested some $1 billion worth of wheat in the parts of Ukraine occupied by Russian forces, the U.S. space agency NASA has said. NASA Harvest, the agency's food-security program, said on December 4 that satellite imagery showed some 5.8 million tons of wheat were harvested from occupied land in Ukraine. It is not known what became of the Ukrainian wheat taken by Russia, but Russian ships have been exporting grain that may have been taken from occupied Ukraine to Libya, Iran, and other countries.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-nasa-russia-steals-wheat/32160919.html

[ozimoron]

Russia’s ill-conceived invasion of Ukraine has so far failed to yield the goals set out by Russian President Vladimir Putin, and his top propagandists are struggling to hide their growing sense of panic.

 

On Monday, head of RT Margarita Simonyan appeared on The Evening With Vladimir Solovyov and admitted that the Kremlin’s collaborationist elite has concerns about the possibility of being tried for war crimes.

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-propagandists-make-desperate-pleas-over-ukraine-war-failures-on-state-tv?source=articles&via=rss

[bannork]

An interesting view on the possibility of Russia using nuclear weapons.

 

[bannork]

But we must see the possibility of Putin using nuclear weapons from his perspective, his values, of which rationality is but one part. 

Should we back down faced with a madman prepared to destroy the world rather than lose face?

 

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, bannork said:

But we must see the possibility of Putin using nuclear weapons from his perspective, his values, of which rationality is but one part. 

Should we back down faced with a madman prepared to destroy the world rather than lose face?

 

nothing to worry about, the guy is pooping on his pants  555

Wild new claim about Putin 'falling and soiling himself' emerges

Vladimir Putin soiled himself ....

 

According to the account, the Russian president landed on his coccyx — otherwise known as the tailbone — prompting him to “involuntarily defecate”

 

https://au.yahoo.com/news/wild-new-claim-about-putin-falling-and-soiling-himself-emerges-051335491.html

 

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

All over twitter and........................

 

Russia has begun a new missile attack, Ukrainian Air Force says

Russian forces have launched a fresh set of missiles towards Ukraine, according to Ukrainian officials.

“We see that strategic bombers have taken off and the first wave of missiles was already launched,” said Yurii Ihnat, spokesman for the Ukrainian Air Force.

There may be several waves of attacks, added Ihnat.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-12-05-22/h_c471b8fed34dfe37ac1349014e642977

[ozimoron]

It's only a matter of time before Ukraine starts hitting targets inside Russia with NATO weapons.

 

https://www.baltictimes.com/ukraine_should_be_free_to_hit_military_targets_in_russia_-_rinkevics/