Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Bkk Brian]

On 4/5/2022 at 7:13 PM, rudi49jr said:

Very scary stuff. This is the official Kremlin line and it shows that they have gone completely off the deep end, insane doesn’t even begin to describe it:

 

https://ccl.org.ua/en/news/ria-novosti-has-clarified-russias-plans-vis-a-vis-ukraine-and-the-rest-of-the-free-world-in-a-program-like-article-what-russia-should-do-with-ukraine-2/

Yea the Times has carried some of it also:

"Timofei Sergeitsev wrote in a column for state newswire Ria Novosti on Sunday. He called for Ukraine to cease to exist as a state, its elite to be “liquidated” and added that “the social swamp which actively and passively supports it must undergo the hardships of war and digest the experience as a historical lesson and atonement”.

 

‘Poorly trained actors’: how Russia’s state media twists revelations of atrocities

On Tuesday, former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev wrote on the messaging app Telegram that Ukrainian nationhood, “[that has] fed on anti-Russian poison and all-encompassing lies about its identity, is all one big fake [that] has never existed in history”. He vowed Russia would “change Ukrainians’ bloody consciousness”, as Putin had ordered.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/9d58d7b1-ceb3-429d-b952-3e7da76aace3

 

If its behind a paywall you can read the full article here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220406092412/https://www.ft.com/content/9d58d7b1-ceb3-429d-b952-3e7da76aace3

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yea the Times has carried some of it also:

"Timofei Sergeitsev wrote in a column for state newswire Ria Novosti on Sunday. He called for Ukraine to cease to exist as a state, its elite to be “liquidated” and added that “the social swamp which actively and passively supports it must undergo the hardships of war and digest the experience as a historical lesson and atonement”.

 

‘Poorly trained actors’: how Russia’s state media twists revelations of atrocities

On Tuesday, former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev wrote on the messaging app Telegram that Ukrainian nationhood, “[that has] fed on anti-Russian poison and all-encompassing lies about its identity, is all one big fake [that] has never existed in history”. He vowed Russia would “change Ukrainians’ bloody consciousness”, as Putin had ordered.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/9d58d7b1-ceb3-429d-b952-3e7da76aace3

 

If its behind a paywall you can read the full article here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220406092412/https://www.ft.com/content/9d58d7b1-ceb3-429d-b952-3e7da76aace3

When the truth doesn't matter anymore the more outrageous the lie the more extreme the options available become. That is the story of modern politics.

[Bkk Brian]

So much more to discover in other towns that were occupied, the nightmare going on in Mariupol must be hell on earth for the civilians there, here we have a first hand video report from the town of Trostyanets by UK Channel 4:

 

Distressing footage from #C4News reveals undocumented atrocities in Trostyanets, Ukraine - including the bodies of people apparently executed with their eyes taped and hands bound behind their backs. Warning: this report contains very distressing images.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

and more:

 

Ukraine thought Bucha would represent the worst of Russian atrocities. New horrors awaited them in Berestyanka

 

When Vira Holubenko returned to her once sleepy village near the Ukrainian capital Kyiv yesterday, she found condoms and empty alcohol bottles in her ransacked home, and a shallow grave in her neighbour's backyard.

Rockets and ammunition lay strewn in the fields behind Ms Holubenko's house in the rural village of Berestyanka, which was looted and set alight late last week by Russian soldiers retreating from a brutal monthlong occupation.

 

"They broke everything in my house, they burnt down my neighbour's house," she said. 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-07/fears-for-ukrainian-town-of-berestyanka/100972266

[RJRS1301]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

and more:

 

Ukraine thought Bucha would represent the worst of Russian atrocities. New horrors awaited them in Berestyanka

 

When Vira Holubenko returned to her once sleepy village near the Ukrainian capital Kyiv yesterday, she found condoms and empty alcohol bottles in her ransacked home, and a shallow grave in her neighbour's backyard.

Rockets and ammunition lay strewn in the fields behind Ms Holubenko's house in the rural village of Berestyanka, which was looted and set alight late last week by Russian soldiers retreating from a brutal monthlong occupation.

 

"They broke everything in my house, they burnt down my neighbour's house," she said. 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-07/fears-for-ukrainian-town-of-berestyanka/100972266

There are no words to express my disgust at what those "soldiers" have done to fellow humans. I trust that the west does not let these atrocities go unpunished. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

There are no words to express my disgust at what those "soldiers" have done to fellow humans. I trust that the west does not let these atrocities go unpunished. 

They won't and it seems that many of the pro Russian propagandists here appear to have gone quiet lately which is great. The evidence is becoming abundant and too overwhelming even for the Putin apologists to defend.

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

They won't and it seems that many of the pro Russian propagandists here appear to have gone quiet lately which is great. The evidence is becoming abundant and too overwhelming even for the Putin apologists to defend.

Oh I am sure once they have received their briefing notes from the embassy, they will be sounding DJT about fake news, and bad actors. 

[Bkk Brian]

Interesting update from MSNBC

 

‘Continuous Drumbeat That Sounds Like Genocidal Language’ On Russian State TV Journalist Says

 

 

[Hellfire]

 

UN to vote Thursday on suspending Russia from rights council

 

The move was initiated by the United States in response to the discovery of hundreds of bodies after Russian troops withdrew from towns near the Ukrainian capital Kyiv, sparking calls for its forces to be tried for war crimes.

 

To be approved, the resolution requires a two-thirds majority of assembly members that vote “yes” or “no.” Abstentions don’t count.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/vote-thursday-suspending-russia-rights-council-83912765

[Bkk Brian]

From the Washington Post, its behind a paywall. Here's a screenshot from the twitter link:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/06/bucha-barbarism-atrocities-russian-soldiers/

 

 

 

 

[rudi49jr]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Interesting update from MSNBC

 

‘Continuous Drumbeat That Sounds Like Genocidal Language’ On Russian State TV Journalist Says

 

 

Apparently night after night on Russian TV there are more and stronger calls from celebs, TV hosts and ‘experts’ for an “Endlösung” for the Ukrainian ‘problem’, by any means necessary, even if that means total nuclear war. The rhetoric gets more and more hysterical and is not based on any reality, not even close.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

Apparently night after night on Russian TV there are more and stronger calls from celebs, TV hosts and ‘experts’ for an “Endlösung” for the Ukrainian ‘problem’, by any means necessary, even if that means total nuclear war. The rhetoric gets more and more hysterical and is not based on any reality, not even close.

For those of you who, like me, didn't know what "Endlösung" means, it's German for "Final Solution".

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

For those of you who, like me, didn't know what "Endlösung" means, it's German for "Final Solution".

Can't get any more Nazi than that...

[placeholder]

Below there's a link to an article that  has a complete translation of that nasty article by Timofey Sergeytsev . It was published in ROI News. ROI News is an official russian govt new source. It's quite horrifying that this was allowed to be be published and speaks to the intentions of the Russian govt. Even previous to this the Russian govt was saying that what happened to the Nazis after WW2 was also applicable to the Ukrainians.

https://uacrisis.org/en/justification-of-genocide-russia-has-openly-declared-its-desire-to-exterminate-ukrainians-as-a-nation

[tgw]

Bucha massacre survivors: ‘Why do Russians hate us so much?’

https://kyivindependent.com/uncategorized/bucha-massacre-survivors-why-do-russians-hate-us-so-much/

 

exerpts:

 

“Lots and lots of people just went missing. Here in Bucha, Russians would take food, jewelry, and people would give it all up just to stay alive,” she said.

 

“Phones were the first thing they used to take away from us. They made people kill their poultry, and if they refused, Russians would simply shoot the hens and take the carcasses with them. For many elderly women here, that poultry was their only hope to survive.”

 

“Sometimes they would make people strip down naked and lie on the ground, then bind their hands. They would then lie there until neighbors came to check out if they were still alive and untied them,”

 

“The Kadyrovites’ checkpoint was the scariest,” said Lyubarets referring to Chechen forces loyal to Chechnya leader Ramzan Kadyrov, which Russia had deployed in the area. 

 

“They could shoot to kill without asking questions, without checking documents. In that area, there were a lot of corpses that have now been buried on the territory of the church. Kadyrovites killed everyone – women, men, children, the age didn’t matter.”

 

“There were checkpoints that killed only men, ages 18-65. They checked their documents and killed them,” she continued. “There were [checkpoints] that shot some people and let others through, with no explanation.”

 

Lyubarets said she saw a man get shot at a checkpoint. She also relayed the story of a 14-year-old boy who ran to the shelter where her family was staying — he said his father was killed on the street. 

[tgw]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/invading-force-can-be-broken-if-west-supplies-enough-weapons-hjd3zm8qj

 

yes, Ukraine needs weapons, good weapons, heavy weapons that will allow to destroy Russian invaders far behind their lines.

 

this looks good, one thing I would add are medium-range cruise missiles with up to 1000 Km range to bombard Russian military bases and bunker-busting cruise missiles against Russian fortifications.

 

Anti-Ship missiles, as I said earlier ... have drones spot the ships and send several dozen anti-ship missiles to sink all major ships of their black sea fleet, then flush.

 

[tgw]

20 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Even the (nutbag) leader of a right-wing political party in The Netherlands, that has 8 seats in the Dutch parliament, called the news that came out of Bucha, and is still coming out, fake news. Putin has stooges all over Europe, and they won’t hesitate to defend everything Putin/Russia does. They live in their own little fact free world.
In many ways they remind me of the communist parties in the West, which also for a very long time slavishly and blindly followed the Kremlin line, no matter how many people Stalin and his successors killed, tortured or locked up in the Soviet Union.

the EU needs to move quickly with the full and complete investigation of these war crimes and get a court to confirm the crimes.

after that it will be possible to make legal moves against deniers.

[tgw]

43 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Below there's a link to an article that  has a complete translation of that nasty article by Timofey Sergeytsev . It was published in ROI News. ROI News is an official russian govt new source. It's quite horrifying that this was allowed to be be published and speaks to the intentions of the Russian govt. Even previous to this the Russian govt was saying that what happened to the Nazis after WW2 was also applicable to the Ukrainians.

https://uacrisis.org/en/justification-of-genocide-russia-has-openly-declared-its-desire-to-exterminate-ukrainians-as-a-nation

it's very obvious that all this Russian hysteria is based on an intense and deep inferiority complex and wish for revenge and nostalgic wish for restoration of their former (super-)power.

it's not unlike what Germany experienced after WW1, except that Germany's reasons for feeling it was treated unfairly were more justified than Russia's reasons today.

 

Russia will lose to Ukraine in this war, and I am concerned about what might be Putin's emasculated and angry reaction to being humiliated even more.

 

I hope he keeps his fingers away from the red button.

 

Next question is whether NATO has secretly built up enough anti-missile defenses to ward off the worst of a nuclear attack on Europe ?

 

Next question is what would NATO do in response to a Russian nuke on Ukraine ? Do we have a doctrine for handling this event ?

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, tgw said:

the EU needs to move quickly with the full and complete investigation of these war crimes and get a court to confirm the crimes.

after that it will be possible to make legal moves against deniers.

They do need to move quickly, the problem is there are so many crimes that they are inundated with investigations but work has started:

 

"The International Criminal Court, which typically prosecutes only a handful of high-level perpetrators, has opened an investigation into atrocities in Ukraine. Ukrainian prosecutors have launched thousands of criminal investigations, while prosecutors in Poland, Germany, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, France, Slovakia, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland have opened investigations of their own. And there have been growing calls to set up a special tribunal to try Russia for the crime of aggression in Ukraine."

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/bucha-ukraine-civilian-deaths-justice-tribunal-international-criminal-court/

 

Here is an updated list of 95 war crimes so far although its not got all in Bucha yet as they are still gathering all the rest of those.

 

95 Potential war crimes documented in Ukraine

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interactive/ap-russia-war-crimes-ukraine/

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, tgw said:

it's very obvious that all this Russian hysteria is based on an intense and deep inferiority complex and wish for revenge and nostalgic wish for restoration of their former (super-)power.

it's not unlike what Germany experienced after WW1, except that Germany's reasons for feeling it was treated unfairly were more justified than Russia's reasons today.

 

Russia will lose to Ukraine in this war, and I am concerned about what might be Putin's emasculated and angry reaction to being humiliated even more.

 

I hope he keeps his fingers away from the red button.

 

Next question is whether NATO has secretly built up enough anti-missile defenses to ward off the worst of a nuclear attack on Europe ?

 

Next question is what would NATO do in response to a Russian nuke on Ukraine ? Do we have a doctrine for handling this event ?

The effectiveness of anti-missile systems is questionable. Otherwise you've made a lot of good points.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Can't get any more Nazi than that...

Or this:

 

The notorious Rusich group (St Petersburg neo-nazis affiliated with Wagner) says it is now deployed in Ukraine. Its commander Aleksey “Fritz” Milchakov has been wounded, so his friend Yan “Slavyan” Petrovsky is now in charge.

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1511732742093950985

https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1511895440417079296

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

it's very obvious that all this Russian hysteria is based on an intense and deep inferiority complex and wish for revenge and nostalgic wish for restoration of their former (super-)power.

it's not unlike what Germany experienced after WW1, except that Germany's reasons for feeling it was treated unfairly were more justified than Russia's reasons today.

 

Russia will lose to Ukraine in this war, and I am concerned about what might be Putin's emasculated and angry reaction to being humiliated even more.

 

I hope he keeps his fingers away from the red button.

 

Next question is whether NATO has secretly built up enough anti-missile defenses to ward off the worst of a nuclear attack on Europe ?

 

Next question is what would NATO do in response to a Russian nuke on Ukraine ? Do we have a doctrine for handling this event ?

Nuke attack which would be of a limited type I take it you mean.

I don't and hope it doesn't happen but if it did NATO I reckon would do the same as as they did when Ukraine was invaded in the first place. 

[rudi49jr]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

For those of you who, like me, didn't know what "Endlösung" means, it's German for "Final Solution".

Sorry for that. I thought that anyone who knew anything about nazi’s and WWII would know the word “Endlösing”. That word has become synonymous - at least to me - with the worst kind of evil and atrocities that humankind is capable of.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Or this:

 

The notorious Rusich group (St Petersburg neo-nazis affiliated with Wagner) says it is now deployed in Ukraine. Its commander Aleksey “Fritz” Milchakov has been wounded, so his friend Yan “Slavyan” Petrovsky is now in charge.

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1511732742093950985

https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1511895440417079296

As for the Wagner group like the Ukraine President said when asked about the Azov battalion ,"They are what they Are".

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

As for the Wagner group like the Ukraine President said when asked about the Azov battalion ,"They are what they Are".

Not quite no.

 

"Running a mercenary army is against the Russian constitution,"

 

"However, Wagner provides the government with a force which is deniable. Wagner can get involved abroad and the Kremlin can say: 'It has nothing to do with us'."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60947877

 

Very handy when war crimes are committed

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, tgw said:

I hope he keeps his fingers away from the red button.

 

Next question is whether NATO has secretly built up enough anti-missile defenses to ward off the worst of a nuclear attack on Europe ?

 

Next question is what would NATO do in response to a Russian nuke on Ukraine ? Do we have a doctrine for handling this event ?

President Joe Biden said NATO would respond “in kind” if Russia uses weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine.

“We will respond if he uses it,” Biden said, referring to Russian President Vladimir Putin. “The nature of the response depends on the nature of the use.”

 

He was referring more to chemical weapons however I presume his response would be about the same for Nuclear weapons. 

 

Basically the start of WW111 if this is not already the prelude to it.

 

 

[Hellfire]

Javelin at work in Ukraine. One T72 tank less

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

The atrocities and war crimes being committed by the Russians will serve to ensure the Ukrainian’s fight that bit harder.

 

There is far too much at stake for them not to respond otherwise.

 

 

 

 

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

President Joe Biden said NATO would respond “in kind” if Russia uses weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine.

“We will respond if he uses it,” Biden said, referring to Russian President Vladimir Putin. “The nature of the response depends on the nature of the use.”

 

He was referring more to chemical weapons however I presume his response would be about the same for Nuclear weapons. 

 

Basically the start of WW111 if this is not already the prelude to it.

Biden's bla bla is not a doctrine.

I'm afraid of Putin wanting to test it out.

Maybe NATO or the USA need to draw a very very ultra clear line in the sand.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Hellfire said:

Javelin at work in Ukraine. One T72 tank less

 

 

 

The effectiveness of these anti tank weapons has been demonstrated enough times already that it is doubtless the Russian tank crews have zero faith in the death traps they are riding in.

 

I wonder how often the term ‘Javlin’ is heard spoken out loud, let alone eating their insides out.