Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[Gweiloman]

57 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

In my case, it's simply that I am a car enthusiast and want something with high performance that is also quiet & comfortable to drive and I would rather not spend more than I have to.  It is pleasure that drives me.

 

I used to drive ICE, there wasn't really any choice.  My epiphany came when I bought a Mercedes E-Class PHEV.  I loved the silence and comfort, the range of 20km not so much.  My next car was a BEV and now I can't ever imagine owning a legacy powered car again.

 

A year and a half ago, I was in the market for a SUV, having sold my 10 yr Old Ford Ranger pickup and owning just a Mazda 2 which was too small for my needs. I wasn’t ready to make the plunge into a full BEV as I make regular long distance trips. I felt a PHEV would be ideal but wasn’t prepared to pay silly money for MB’s and BMW’s. The Mitsubishi Outlander was an option at 1.7 million baht but it had a pitiful range of only 70 km or so. The MG HS was a cheaper option but also limited in EV range. Along came the Haval H6 with a NEDC range of 201 km, real world 160-180 km. Perfect, I snapped it up even though it was 100k above expected retail price. Loved it straightaway. I drove around for months without refilling the petrol until I started to get worried about fuel contamination so I forced myself to drive around on petrol every now and again just so that I could change out the petrol every now and then.

 

When a family friend wanted to buy my Mazda 2, it was a no brainer for me to buy an EV as my second car. I love not knowing how petrol and diesel fumes smell like, except when I’m caught behind one of those monstrosities on the road with my windows down.

[Gweiloman]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Have you ever used an iPhone when the battery gets down to 70%? Typically, you get them changed at 80%.

Surely you’re not comparing the battery in a smartphone to an EV battery? They are poles apart.

[vinny41]

57 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

So why are online links suggesting you can pay up to ฿8,000?

 

 

A engine with a cc of 3,276 road tax would be B8,004 

300  baht for the 1st 600 cc        at 0.50 baht per cc

1200 baht for the 600-1800cc    at 1.5 baht per cc

5904 baht for the 1800-3276cc  at 4 baht per cc

[Yellowtail]

As I understand it, to for best battery performance, you're not supposed to charge past 80%, or let it drop below 20%, is this correct? 

 

If so, and if my math is correct, at 70%, you only have ~42% usable battery. 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Gweiloman said:

Surely you’re not comparing the battery in a smartphone to an EV battery? They are poles apart.

Is that a pun? 

[Bandersnatch]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Have you ever used an iPhone when the battery gets down to 70%? Typically, you get them changed at 80%.

 

 

Phone batteries and EV batteries are not the same.

 

I know most people posting here have no experience with either EV batteries of home solar batteries and that you are not going to believe those of us have lived with such batteries for years.  

 

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/why-do-ev-batteries-last-so-much-longer-than-cell-phone-batteries

 

 

 

 

[Gweiloman]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

As I understand it, to for best battery performance, you're not supposed to charge past 80%, or let it drop below 20%, is this correct? 

 

If so, and if my math is correct, at 70%, you only have ~42% usable battery. 

As I understand it, you are correct when it comes to Lithium ion (NMC) batteries. Fully charging/discharging these batteries frequently apparently leads to higher degradation. That’s not to say you can’t charge it to 100% if you want.

 

On the other hand, LFP batteries can easily be fully charged frequently without adverse effects. In fact, manufacturers recommend doing so on a weekly basis. Considering that they warranty the batteries for 8 years, I’m sure they would not give out this advice if they are unsure of how the battery will be affected.

[JBChiangRai]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

As I understand it, to for best battery performance, you're not supposed to charge past 80%, or let it drop below 20%, is this correct? 

 

If so, and if my math is correct, at 70%, you only have ~42% usable battery. 

 

It depends on battery technology.  NMC type batteries don't like being kept at 100% or left discharged below a certain level (probably 10%).  Mobile phone batteries are NMC, the worst thing you can do with a phone is plug it in to charge when you go to bed.  I only charge my phone to 80% and not wirelessly if I can avoid it.

 

LFP batteries don't mind so much and the manufacturer likes them to be charged to 100%.

 

When a battery is down to 70% capacity, you would probably use it all, but if you looked after it then that might be after 20 years.

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

 

Phone batteries and EV batteries are not the same.

 

I know most people posting here have no experience with either EV batteries of home solar batteries and that you are not going to believe those of us have lived with such batteries for years.  

 

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/why-do-ev-batteries-last-so-much-longer-than-cell-phone-batteries

 

 

 

I never claimed the batteries were the same. If they were, if an EV battery go low, you could use your phone to charge it. 

 

Is this where I ask if you graduated kindergarten? 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

 

8 years old the car will be worthless.

New batteries required.

 

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-electric-car-resale-values/

 

You have to take everything Toyota say with a pinch of salt.  They have a history of making EV type announcements and not delivering.

 

I think their aim is to share FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) to stop people from being EV's because their offering bZ4x is comparable to other EV's here at half the price.  

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I just renewed the road tax on my daughter's MG4 (2 months before it's due) and I think I paid over 2,000 baht with the compulsory insurance included.

 

Correction, I just checked it was 1,300 baht plus the compulsory.  I think EV's are done on weight.

According to this article there are 2 tax rates  for Mg4 weight  is 1,650 KG

road tax until end of September 2025 is 260 Baht

After 30 September 2025 Mg4 road tax is B1,300 

https://www.autospinn.com/2023/08/electric-vehicle-tax-131975

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

It depends on battery technology.  NMC type batteries don't like being kept at 100% or left discharged below a certain level (probably 10%).  Mobile phone batteries are NMC, the worst thing you can do with a phone is plug it in to charge when you go to bed.  I only charge my phone to 80% and not wirelessly if I can avoid it.

 

LFP batteries don't mind so much and the manufacturer likes them to be charged to 100%.

 

When a battery is down to 70% capacity, you would probably use it all, but if you looked after it then that might be after 20 years.

How would use all the battery capacity, drive it until it stops? 

 

If it was reasonable to expect the battery to be at 70% after 20 years, car companies would be guaranteeing that. They are not. 

 

They are guaranteeing (I think) 7-8 years, which this is how long they expect most of the batteries to last. And even then, (and again, this is my understanding, so correct me if I am wrong) they don't have to replace the battery, they only have to replace enough cells to get it up to 70%. 

 

I'm not knocking EVs, but I think it unrealistic to think the difference between a battery at 70% is not going to be significantly less useful than when new. 

 

That said, it you charge at home and only dive to 7/11 now and then, it probably makes no difference, and you may get 20 years out of a battery. 

[Gweiloman]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

How would use all the battery capacity, drive it until it stops? 

 

If it was reasonable to expect the battery to be at 70% after 20 years, car companies would be guaranteeing that. They are not. 

 

They are guaranteeing (I think) 7-8 years, which this is how long they expect most of the batteries to last. And even then, (and again, this is my understanding, so correct me if I am wrong) they don't have to replace the battery, they only have to replace enough cells to get it up to 70%. 

 

I'm not knocking EVs, but I think it unrealistic to think the difference between a battery at 70% is not going to be significantly less useful than when new. 

 

That said, it you charge at home and only dive to 7/11 now and then, it probably makes no difference, and you may get 20 years out of a battery. 

ICE manufacturers typically warranty their cars for 3-5 years. Does that mean the car will stop operating after that?

 

My LG TV had a 1 year warranty. It’s still operating after 6 years.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

 

8 years old the car will be worthless.

New batteries required.

 

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-electric-car-resale-values/

If you look at Autotrader in the Uk plenty of 13 year old Nissan leaf's for sale starting from B167K to B383K for a 7 year old 2017 model

[Bandersnatch]

21 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

According to this article there are 2 tax rates  for Mg4 weight  is 1,650 KG

road tax until end of September 2025 is 260 Baht

After 30 September 2025 Mg4 road tax is B1,300 

https://www.autospinn.com/2023/08/electric-vehicle-tax-131975

 

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Explains my ฿380 annual road tax.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

ICE manufacturers typically warranty their cars for 3-5 years. Does that mean the car will stop operating after that?

No, but it does mean that the manufacturer expects the warranty will start costing them money. 

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

My LG TV had a 1 year warranty. It’s still operating after 6 years.

And I drove a '53 F-100 for over 20 years, and it was 29 years old when I bought it. The guy I sold it to still has it. What is your point? 

 

Did you check the warranty before you bought the TV? Is the warranty a big selling point for TVs? 

 

People do compare worries on cars, and they are a fairly big selling point.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

As I understand it, to for best battery performance, you're not supposed to charge past 80%, or let it drop below 20%, is this correct? 

 

If so, and if my math is correct, at 70%, you only have ~42% usable battery. 

I'm surprised, after all your reading and postings, you still don't know the difference in EV battery chemistries.   Why most manufacturers are using LFP.   Location & use (LR/Performance) dependent.

 

And been explained 1 or 100 times on the forum, even with visual aid.   LFP batteries have a life cycle of 2000-10,000 cycles, depending who is talking, so 2500 cycles is a good low (negative) #, and that is still retaining 80% of battery.   

My calculation, we'll still have 95+% capacity at the end of out 8 year / 180k kms battery warranty.

 

[Gweiloman]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, but it does mean that the manufacturer expects the warranty will start costing them money. 

And I drove a '53 F-100 for over 20 years, and it was 29 years old when I bought it. The guy I sold it to still has it. What is your point? 

 

Did you check the warranty before you bought the TV? Is the warranty a big selling point for TVs? 

 

People do compare worries on cars, and they are a fairly big selling point.

My point is that things don’t stop operating once outside of the warranty period. You said that manufacturers warranty the batteries for 7-8 years as this is how long they expect the batteries to last. I don’t think this is the case. 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

My point is that things don’t stop operating once outside of the warranty period. You said that manufacturers warranty the batteries for 7-8 years as this is how long they expect the batteries to last. I don’t think this is the case. 

No, what I said was: "If it was reasonable to expect the battery to be at 70% after 20 years, car companies would be guaranteeing that. They are not." 

 

Battery warranty is a big selling point, not so with televisions and whatnot. The manufacturer know the warranty will cost them money. They want to maximize the warranty they can provide without it costing them too much. 

 

You do not seem to really want to address what I have said. 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

No, what I said was: "If it was reasonable to expect the battery to be at 70% after 20 years, car companies would be guaranteeing that. They are not." 

 

 

 

If it is reasonable to expect an ICE car to still be running after one year, they would be guaranteeing that. They are not.

[Gweiloman]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, what I said was: "If it was reasonable to expect the battery to be at 70% after 20 years, car companies would be guaranteeing that. They are not." 

 

Battery warranty is a big selling point, not so with televisions and whatnot. The manufacturer know the warranty will cost them money. They want to maximize the warranty they can provide without it costing them too much. 

 

You do not seem to really want to address what I have said. 

 

51 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

 

They are guaranteeing (I think) 7-8 years, which this is how long they expect most of the batteries to last. And even then, (and again, this is my understanding, so correct me if I am wrong) they don't have to replace the battery, they only have to replace enough cells to get it up to 70%. 

 

I’m confused by what you’re trying to say.

[KhunLA]

31 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, what I said was: "If it was reasonable to expect the battery to be at 70% after 20 years, car companies would be guaranteeing that. They are not." 

That's just silly, 20 yr warranty, and the bean counters wouldn't have it.

 

Especially considering how long people keep their cars.   So not to go too evne further off topic, again, let's continue here.

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

 

8 years old the car will be worthless.

New batteries required.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-electric-car-resale-values/

There's nothing in that article even remotely suggesting that new batteries are required after 8 years.

 

Both real world experience and discharge/recharge cycle testing shows many EV batteries lasting 15-20 years or so in normal use.

 

Good News: EV Batteries Last Longer Than Expected

 

As Nissan UK marketing director Nic Thomas says, in an interview with Forbes:

 

Quote

“At the end of the vehicle’s life - 15 or 20 years down the road - you take the battery out of the car, and it’s still healthy”

 

How long do electric car batteries last?

 

Quote

Under current estimates, most electric car batteries will last somewhere between 15-20 years before they need to be replaced. With today's average lifespan of a car being roughly 12 years, your EV battery will probably outlive your car. 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

 

 

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Duplicate post - text edited out.

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

I’m confused by what you’re trying to say.

What part of what I said confused you? 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

That's just silly, 20 yr warranty, and the bean counters wouldn't have it.

 

Especially considering how long people keep their cars.   So not to go too evne further off topic, again, let's continue here.

My washing machine came with a 20-year warranty on the motor. 

 

The "bean counters" have little to do with what the length of the warranty is. 

 

 

[Gweiloman]

11 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

There's nothing in that article even remotely suggesting that new batteries are required after 8 years.

 

Both real world experience and discharge/recharge cycle testing shows many EV batteries lasting 15-20 years or so in normal use.

 

Good News: EV Batteries Last Longer Than Expected

 

As Nissan UK marketing director Nic Thomas says, in an interview with Forbes:

 

 

How long do electric car batteries last?

 

 

My main concern is degradation and whether the dealer/manufacturer (GWM and BYD in my case) will honour their warranty. If truth be told, I don’t actually know what the warranty states as I didn’t bother reading the fine print. 
 

As my BYD has the LFP battery, I will just charge it to full whenever I can, My Haval on the other hand is a Lithium ternary battery (I presume this means NMC). I watched a video that referenced a study by the Battery University (https://batteryuniversity.com) that the best practice is to keep the battery between something like 65-75%. This is of course highly impractical so I currently charge up to only 70% (more if I’m doing more miles) and recharge daily when I get home.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Knock yourself out..  

 

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Knock yourself out..  

 

I like the green, reminds me of my first car, a Hillman Hunter GLS

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

My washing machine came with a 20-year warranty on the motor. 

 

The "bean counters" have little to do with what the length of the warranty is. 

Ah yes, the marvel of electric motors ... at a preset controlled speed, the manufacturer controls.

 

Have you seen people drive their cars ?  Same car last some people 15 years, while other kill theirs in 5 years.   Yea, bean counters got that one correct, with warranty what they can control.

 

Apples & oranges ...