Justice Samuel Alito, the architect of overturning Roe v. Wade, told senators he viewed the abortion rights landmark as 'important precedent.' Now he says 'stare decisis' doesn't protect it

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

A Woman can choose as to whether she wants to have a baby or not by either allowing or not allowing sperm to enter into her womb .

    She needs to make the choice before she gets pregnant , rather than getting pregnant and then deciding whether she wants to have a baby or not .

Like : Want a baby > have unprotected sex 

          Don't want a baby > Have protected sex 

She needs to decide that before she opens her legs 

In other words women who are not actively seeking to get pregnant should never have sex.  Or if they have sex they need to keep their hands on the man's penis at all times to make sure he doesn't remove the condom, because if he does and she gets pregnant she is the one responsible.

 

I'm glad there are many women who don't share that view.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

A Woman can choose as to whether she wants to have a baby or not by either allowing or not allowing sperm to enter into her womb .

    She needs to make the choice before she gets pregnant , rather than getting pregnant and then deciding whether she wants to have a baby or not .

Like : Want a baby > have unprotected sex 

          Don't want a baby > Have protected sex 

She needs to decide that before she opens her legs 

In a perfect world. You talk on another post about making decisions at 20 that you now look at in a different way. 15 year old girls get pressured or just make poor decisions. Wives do stuff they don't really want to do. Things happen fast.

We all have a sense of where a life starts. Some at conception. Some at birth. Me somewhere in between. What we do know is there is a difference between a seed, a lump of cells, and a human. Until it's a human, however defined, I think it is part of a woman and her decision. 

[ThailandRyan]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Errrrrm , the topic of this thread is abortions .

People having sex without precautions causes pregnancies and abortions . 

Which makes my post to be on-topic

Abortions in the US, Roe v Wade, not Thailand barstool bareback talk...

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

In other words women who are not actively seeking to get pregnant should never have sex.  Or if they have sex they need to keep their hands on the man's penis at all times to make sure he doesn't remove the condom, because if he does and she gets pregnant she is the one responsible.

 

I'm glad there are many women who don't share that view.

No, if females don't want to get pregnant , they should either take the pill or make sure the male is wearing a condom and they really don't have to hold on to the mans penis at all times 

[ozimoron]

25 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, I am talking about males and females who regularly have sex without precautions and just get an abortion when a pregnancy occurs .

  Quite a few posters on this forum take pride in not wearing a condom 

 

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Errrrrm , the topic of this thread is abortions .

People having sex without precautions causes pregnancies and abortions . 

Which makes my post to be on-topic

no it doesn't and reported as off topic.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, if females don't want to get pregnant , they should either take the pill or make sure the male is wearing a condom and they really don't have to hold on to the mans penis at all times 

If you believe that a life happens at the point of sex, or shortly thereafter, then there's nothing more to say and you have the right to that opinion. I actually don't think that argument is necessarily illogical, as a seed has been created that will turn into a human, but I don't want to, or think I have the right to,  tell a different human what they do with their body until there is clearly a third human that has to be considered. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[pomchop]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, if females don't want to get pregnant , they should either take the pill or make sure the male is wearing a condom and they really don't have to hold on to the mans penis at all times 

Yeah be sure and do that if you are being raped with a knife to your throat. Or if you get drugged or drunk or some guy has his way with you when you are 15 y.o. because he tells you he loves you and you believe him.  

[GroveHillWanderer]

10 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Woman has an unborn baby , which will soon be a baby and grow up to be an adult , unless she kills it 

That's just not so. Firstly it's an embryo or foetus, not a baby (unborn or otherwise) and even without intervention, only about 1/3 of fertilised embryos make it to term.

 

As mentioned in the Science Daily article below:

 

Quote

Two-thirds of all human embryos fail to develop successfully.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101003205930.htm

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, pomchop said:

Yeah be sure and do that if you are being raped with a knife to your throat. Or if you get drugged or drunk or some guy has his way with you when you are 15 y.o. because he tells you he loves you and you believe him.  

Those are extremes , we are talking about the normal .

Rape isnt the normal occurrence 

[billd766]

11 hours ago, Jerno said:

Yep.  Six old male Christian farts deciding on a women's right to control her own body.  USA Land of the Free...ya right.  What has happened to the USA?

 

What the hell does a 72 year old man know about women's bodies and how they feel?

 

Decisions like that should ONLY be made by women.

10 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes and a fetus is also referred to as an unborn baby 

 

"In this video, a clinical psychologist talks about what your unborn baby may feel in the womb."

 

https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/week-by-week/13-to-27/15-weeks/

There is that word again.

 

May.

 

Equally, May not.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Those are extremes , we are talking about the normal .

Rape isnt the normal occurrence 

It's incredibly more common that what you wish it were. In fact, it's probably the norm when it comes to unwanted pregnancies. I would add lying about ejaculating inside to that as well.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Aren't those the things that the kids Father should be providing ? 

In a perfect world you are correct. Sadly however this is far from a perfect world. and many men do a runner when faced with being a father. They simply ignore the woman and do a runner.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, billd766 said:

In a perfect world you are correct. Sadly however this is far from a perfect world. and many men do a runner when faced with being a father. They simply ignore the woman and do a runner.

The Females should get to know the guy a bit more  before she decides to reproduce with him , get to know him to the extent that she would know whether he is the type of guy to do a runner or not 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Females should get to know the guy a bit more  before she decides to reproduce with him , get to know him to the extent that she would know whether he is the type of guy to do a runner or not 

This is just absurd. You're making excuses why men should control a woman's body.

Edited June 26, 2022 by ozimoron

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Men in the UK are legally required to pay 12 % of their earnings as child support, to the female 

If they can be found, and if they have a job, and if they are not on benefits.

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Killing is killing.  Ending a life is killing.  Apply where you see fit.

 

It is what it is.  Justify in your mind anyway you wish, it doesn't change the reality of it.  You stop something from growing, you killed it. 

 

Only in your mind is that reality different.  UP2U

 

I can just see it now – – you bending over a cabbage in your garden, about to cut it for dinner, crying and wailing because you're about to end a "life". ????
 

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If they can be found, and if they have a job, and if they are not on benefits.

We seem to be talking about knife wielding rapists who get underage girls drunk and then impregnate them and then do a runner because they don't have a job . 

   Those people are the tiny minority and they shouldn't be regarded as the norm 

[Sheryl]

A post with an unattributed graphic of what appears to be a full term baby in utero (and not a fetus as stated)  has been removed.

[Phoenix Rising]

One can only hope:

 

Abortion and guns may awaken a slumbering giant for Democrats

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

A post with an unattributed graphic of what appears to be a full term baby in utero (and not a fetus as stated)  has been removed.

Just asking : isnt a fetus an unborn baby ? And the unborn baby stops being a fetus when its born ?

[Sheryl]

38 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

If you believe that a life happens at the point of sex, or shortly thereafter, then there's nothing more to say and you have the right to that opinion. I actually don't think that argument is necessarily illogical, as a seed has been created that will turn into a human,

 

Actually that is not true.  The majority of fertilized eggs do not develop into viable fetuses, in fact in the majority if cases no pregnancy ever develops.

 

Pregnancy requires 2 things: (1) fertilization of an egg by sperm, which occurs in the fallopian tube, not the womb;  and (2) successful implantation of the fertilized ovum on the wall of the uterus. Only then is a pregnancy established.  More often than not, this fails to occur. The woman's menstrual period occurs as usual and she has no idea that fertilization of an egg occurred. This happens very, very often.

 

This idea that  a unique soul is present from the moment of conception, in addition to being unprovable/based on a religious concept not everyone (or even all religions) shares, is also very hard to reconcile with biological fact. Why would all these souls fail to develop?  Should women be grieving at every menstrual cycle for the possible death of a soul? etc etc

 

Of course this has no direct relevance to abortion as an abortion, by definition, can only be performed after an embryo is present in the uterus. 

 

But it is very relevant to some types of contraception, e.g. the IUD and the "morning after pill" which many anti-abortion activitists consider to be "abortifactants" because they may prevent implantation of a fertilized egg. There is every likelihood that these forms of birth control will also face attempted legal bans in the near future.

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Just asking : isnt a fetus an unborn baby ? And the unborn baby stops being a fetus when its born ?

The fetal period ends with birth, yes - a fetus is no longer a fetus once it is born.

 

But whether, while a fetus of any gestation, it is also an "unborn baby" is a matter of opinion, "unborn baby" not having a medical definition.

 

To show pictures of a full term fetus and imply this is what is removed from the womb during an abortion is completely misleading/dishonest. 

 

The whole point of doing that is to show something that looks just like a baby and not like a fetus at a much earlier stage of development, even though the latter is what is accurate.

 

 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, if females don't want to get pregnant , they should either take the pill or make sure the male is wearing a condom and they really don't have to hold on to the mans penis at all times 

Actually the only way for a women to be sure a man doesn't take the condom off during sex is for her to maintain constant contact with the penis or for the man to keep his hands in sight for the duration.  Sex rarely happens either way.

 

However your point that birth control is entirely the woman's responsibility is noted, though not agreed with.

[heybruce]

52 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Females should get to know the guy a bit more  before she decides to reproduce with him , get to know him to the extent that she would know whether he is the type of guy to do a runner or not 

All the women in the world should behave the way you think they should behave.  Right?

[Lacessit]

It's going to get interesting when Muslims start suing the Supreme Court, on the basis their constitutional right to freedom of religion is being is being infringed. Islam permits aborting of fetuses up to 20 weeks of pregnancy.

 

While I am no admirer of Islam, some of its tenets make a lot more sense than the loony Christian fundamentalists.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Aren't those the things that the kids Father should be providing ? 

Good thing there's no such thing as the working poor, deadbeat dads and single parents.

Oddly enough,  there's a big correlation between the states that oppose obamacare's increased Medicaid benefits for the poor and those states that want to outlaw abortion.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Actually the only way for a women to be sure a man doesn't take the condom off during sex is for her to maintain constant contact with the penis or for the man to keep his hands in sight for the duration.  Sex rarely happens either way.

 

However your point that birth control is entirely the woman's responsibility is noted, though not agreed with.

Another way would be for her to have a responsible partner who wouldn't want to or try to remove the condom during sex , not to have a relationship with a man whose going to have unprotected sex and take the condom off first chance he gets .

   She needs to find a responsible man to have sex with and if she doesnt fully trust the man, she needs to protect herself by talking the pill 

[heybruce]

From the article:

 

'"Stare decisis is not an inexorable command," he wrote in the majority opinion, and when properly applied, meant that Roe should be overturned, not upheld. "

 

I guess that means that all the Supreme Court decisions that put "the right to bear arms" ahead of the "well regulated militia" part of the Second Amendment are now open to review and can be overturned.  As can the recent and puzzling Supreme Court decision that prevents states from being more stringent than the federal government in separating church and state.  https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/21/politics/supreme-court-religious-schools/index.html

 

For good or bad, Constitutional Law in the US has been made much more impermanent.

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

All the women in the world should behave the way you think they should behave.  Right?

If they want to avoid being destitute single mothers or getting abortions , they they should take measures to avoid getting into that predicament  

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, if females don't want to get pregnant , they should either take the pill or make sure the male is wearing a condom and they really don't have to hold on to the mans penis at all times 

You really need to get out more, stealthing is quite common. The man simply takes the condom off before entering from behind, the first the woman knows about it is when he ejaculates into her.